Nahhhh. My wife single-hands our TY37. Once set up and with all the
controls to the cockpit its relatively easy, especially with a boomed
(and vanged) staysail. The only difficulty with a bigger heavier boat
is the size/weight of the sails and if you have to strip them off
entirely for some reason .... .
My personal limit is 400 sq. ft. per sail @ 9 oz/sq. ft. I cant handle
anything larger than that .... balancing on pitching deck holding on
to the sail with one hand plus teeth, etc.

The larger the boat the easier it is to sail (but if and only if - you
know how to 'precisely' sail already). But ..... I entirely agree
that the smaller tippy the boat the faster the learning curve. Perhaps
she should consider to buy a resaleable keelboat 'beater', gain
expertise on the beater, sell it, then buy the 'cruiser'. Nothin'
accelerates the learning curve faster than sailing **often** and
purposely in **all** kinds of weather.
:-)

In article , JAXAshby
wrote:

Rich, a Tayana 37 or a Valiant 40 might be a tad big for a woman to
singlehand.
A Southern Cross 31(same same as Aries 32 or Weatherly 32 or Roughwater 33)
or
a Luders 33 or a Westsail 28 or a Southern Cross 28, or a Bristol
27/30(?)/32/35, or a Seawind 33 or a Cape Dory 30 or 33, or a Baba 30, etc.

Consider upgrading and refitting a Robert Perry design: Tayana37,
Valiant 40, etc. These older designs (although heavyweight by todays
standards) have dominated passagemaking and voyaging for the past 30+
years.

Rich, a Tayana 37 or a Valiant 40 might be a tad big for a woman to singlehand.
A Southern Cross 31(same same as Aries 32 or Weatherly 32 or Roughwater 33) or
a Luders 33 or a Westsail 28 or a Southern Cross 28, or a Bristol
27/30(?)/32/35, or a Seawind 33 or a Cape Dory 30 or 33, or a Baba 30, etc.

Consider upgrading and refitting a Robert Perry design: Tayana37,
Valiant 40, etc. These older designs (although heavyweight by todays
standards) have dominated passagemaking and voyaging for the past 30+
years.

"Rich Hampel" wrote in message
...
Consider upgrading and refitting a Robert Perry design: Tayana37,
Valiant 40, etc. These older designs (although heavyweight by todays
standards) have dominated passagemaking and voyaging for the past 30+
years. Depending on where you are located the best prices are in
Florida/Gulf Coast. Prices for older still useable/rebuildable (with
alluminum masts) should be in the neighborhood of $65K-100K These
boats are built like Sherman Tanks and usually are quite sound
structurally (overbuilt ).
If you have to refit, figure a 20% added to your purchase price -- and
that may be true for ANY used boat you buy.

Everyone's got their own metrics, but for me, from the start, knowing I was
going to be in the 20-30 year old boat range, I wanted a reserve of 50% of
the purchase price for upgrades and the inevitable surprises that the
surveyor missed, or the weather demanded, or whatever else.

For whatever it may be worth, the supposedly bristol, mega-equipped boat
we're trying to buy isn't any different. It would benefit you to go to the
surveyor's site - David Pascoe - where there's a discussion on surveys, and
how you might react to a less-than-stellar one. I took/take that position,
and as such, am expecting to do my/our best to make this deal work - but it
will be at a significantly higher end cost than the originally agreed-upon
price, because, I've found, the more times you go to a boat, the more you
see that isn't just right, and this one's no different.

My points a

First, try to get educated about the boat type (make, model) you want, in
order to know where the bodies are buried. Once you have, know that most
likely all the boats in that type will have similar problems, and leaving
one boat (due to survey problems) to go to another probably won't provide
you with a meaningfully different experience.

Second, and you may have already come to that decision, if you're thinking
in terms of a purchase price of 80, I'd not be comfortable without a reserve
of 40 behind that. At that (if you've discovered by googling post of mine
here you probably already know), we started at 30-40' and 60k and wound up
at significantly more volume (in our case, 45' hull) and double the budget.
However, that budget initially, and now, included a reserve of 50%...

You've got a while to look, which is great. It's a marvelous experience.
Presumably, you don't have the challenges we do, which makes your choices
far broader. In the course of our initial looking, there were many boats
which fit your criteria that I could even fit on - but which Lydia detested,
and so were immediately scrubbed. Your tastes, inferred from your piloting,
likely will be more practical than emotional :{)) - which will increase your
available potential successful candidates.

I'd have to say, in conclusion, though, that this experience is similar to
my initial looking in real estate investing. There was what the seminars
called the 'hundred house rule' - look at a hundred houses (metaphorically
speaking - it might only be 30, or it might take you 150), and you'll know
what works for you. It was that experience that let me be on and off the
vast majority of the last hundred boats I went aboard in less than a minute
or two - brokers loved me for that. They probably didn't have the
offsetting appreciation for how specific I was about what worked (and the
demand that I get it before moving forward), though!

Good luck in your searching - and go aboard as many as you can as a sailor.
Life below and above decks is different on the water!

L8R

Skip


--
"And then again, when you sit at the helm of your little ship on a clear
night, and gaze at the countless stars overhead, and realize that you are
quite alone on a great, wide sea, it is apt to occur to you that in the
general scheme of things you are merely an insignificant speck on the
surface of the ocean; and are not nearly so important or as self-sufficient
as you thought you were. Which is an exceedingly wholesome thought, and one
that may effect a permanent change in your deportment that will be greatly
appreciated by your friends."- James S. Pitkin

test, apologies...

--
"And then again, when you sit at the helm of your little ship on a clear
night, and gaze at the countless stars overhead, and realize that you are
quite alone on a great, wide sea, it is apt to occur to you that in the
general scheme of things you are merely an insignificant speck on the
surface of the ocean; and are not nearly so important or as self-sufficient
as you thought you were. Which is an exceedingly wholesome thought, and one
that may effect a permanent change in your deportment that will be greatly
appreciated by your friends."- James S. Pitkin
"Skip Gundlach" wrote in
message ink.net...
"Rich Hampel" wrote in message
...
Consider upgrading and refitting a Robert Perry design: Tayana37,
Valiant 40, etc. These older designs (although heavyweight by todays
standards) have dominated passagemaking and voyaging for the past 30+
years. Depending on where you are located the best prices are in
Florida/Gulf Coast. Prices for older still useable/rebuildable (with
alluminum masts) should be in the neighborhood of $65K-100K These
boats are built like Sherman Tanks and usually are quite sound
structurally (overbuilt ).
If you have to refit, figure a 20% added to your purchase price -- and
that may be true for ANY used boat you buy.

Everyone's got their own metrics, but for me, from the start, knowing I
was
going to be in the 20-30 year old boat range, I wanted a reserve of 50% of
the purchase price for upgrades and the inevitable surprises that the
surveyor missed, or the weather demanded, or whatever else.

For whatever it may be worth, the supposedly bristol, mega-equipped boat
we're trying to buy isn't any different. It would benefit you to go to
the
surveyor's site - David Pascoe - where there's a discussion on surveys,
and
how you might react to a less-than-stellar one. I took/take that
position,
and as such, am expecting to do my/our best to make this deal work - but
it
will be at a significantly higher end cost than the originally agreed-upon
price, because, I've found, the more times you go to a boat, the more you
see that isn't just right, and this one's no different.

My points a

First, try to get educated about the boat type (make, model) you want, in
order to know where the bodies are buried. Once you have, know that most
likely all the boats in that type will have similar problems, and leaving
one boat (due to survey problems) to go to another probably won't provide
you with a meaningfully different experience.

Second, and you may have already come to that decision, if you're thinking
in terms of a purchase price of 80, I'd not be comfortable without a
reserve
of 40 behind that. At that (if you've discovered by googling post of mine
here you probably already know), we started at 30-40' and 60k and wound up
at significantly more volume (in our case, 45' hull) and double the
budget.
However, that budget initially, and now, included a reserve of 50%...

You've got a while to look, which is great. It's a marvelous experience.
Presumably, you don't have the challenges we do, which makes your choices
far broader. In the course of our initial looking, there were many boats
which fit your criteria that I could even fit on - but which Lydia
detested,
and so were immediately scrubbed. Your tastes, inferred from your
piloting,
likely will be more practical than emotional :{)) - which will increase
your
available potential successful candidates.

I'd have to say, in conclusion, though, that this experience is similar to
my initial looking in real estate investing. There was what the seminars
called the 'hundred house rule' - look at a hundred houses (metaphorically
speaking - it might only be 30, or it might take you 150), and you'll know
what works for you. It was that experience that let me be on and off the
vast majority of the last hundred boats I went aboard in less than a
minute
or two - brokers loved me for that. They probably didn't have the
offsetting appreciation for how specific I was about what worked (and the
demand that I get it before moving forward), though!

Good luck in your searching - and go aboard as many as you can as a
sailor.
Life below and above decks is different on the water!

L8R

Skip


--
"And then again, when you sit at the helm of your little ship on a clear
night, and gaze at the countless stars overhead, and realize that you are
quite alone on a great, wide sea, it is apt to occur to you that in the
general scheme of things you are merely an insignificant speck on the
surface of the ocean; and are not nearly so important or as
self-sufficient
as you thought you were. Which is an exceedingly wholesome thought, and
one
that may effect a permanent change in your deportment that will be greatly
appreciated by your friends."- James S. Pitkin

test, apologies...

--
"And then again, when you sit at the helm of your little ship on a clear
night, and gaze at the countless stars overhead, and realize that you are
quite alone on a great, wide sea, it is apt to occur to you that in the
general scheme of things you are merely an insignificant speck on the
surface of the ocean; and are not nearly so important or as self-sufficient
as you thought you were. Which is an exceedingly wholesome thought, and one
that may effect a permanent change in your deportment that will be greatly
appreciated by your friends."- James S. Pitkin
"Skip Gundlach" wrote in
message ink.net...
"Rich Hampel" wrote in message
...
Consider upgrading and refitting a Robert Perry design: Tayana37,
Valiant 40, etc. These older designs (although heavyweight by todays
standards) have dominated passagemaking and voyaging for the past 30+
years. Depending on where you are located the best prices are in
Florida/Gulf Coast. Prices for older still useable/rebuildable (with
alluminum masts) should be in the neighborhood of $65K-100K These
boats are built like Sherman Tanks and usually are quite sound
structurally (overbuilt ).
If you have to refit, figure a 20% added to your purchase price -- and
that may be true for ANY used boat you buy.

Everyone's got their own metrics, but for me, from the start, knowing I
was
going to be in the 20-30 year old boat range, I wanted a reserve of 50% of
the purchase price for upgrades and the inevitable surprises that the
surveyor missed, or the weather demanded, or whatever else.

For whatever it may be worth, the supposedly bristol, mega-equipped boat
we're trying to buy isn't any different. It would benefit you to go to
the
surveyor's site - David Pascoe - where there's a discussion on surveys,
and
how you might react to a less-than-stellar one. I took/take that
position,
and as such, am expecting to do my/our best to make this deal work - but
it
will be at a significantly higher end cost than the originally agreed-upon
price, because, I've found, the more times you go to a boat, the more you
see that isn't just right, and this one's no different.

My points a

First, try to get educated about the boat type (make, model) you want, in
order to know where the bodies are buried. Once you have, know that most
likely all the boats in that type will have similar problems, and leaving
one boat (due to survey problems) to go to another probably won't provide
you with a meaningfully different experience.

Second, and you may have already come to that decision, if you're thinking
in terms of a purchase price of 80, I'd not be comfortable without a
reserve
of 40 behind that. At that (if you've discovered by googling post of mine
here you probably already know), we started at 30-40' and 60k and wound up
at significantly more volume (in our case, 45' hull) and double the
budget.
However, that budget initially, and now, included a reserve of 50%...

You've got a while to look, which is great. It's a marvelous experience.
Presumably, you don't have the challenges we do, which makes your choices
far broader. In the course of our initial looking, there were many boats
which fit your criteria that I could even fit on - but which Lydia
detested,
and so were immediately scrubbed. Your tastes, inferred from your
piloting,
likely will be more practical than emotional :{)) - which will increase
your
available potential successful candidates.

I'd have to say, in conclusion, though, that this experience is similar to
my initial looking in real estate investing. There was what the seminars
called the 'hundred house rule' - look at a hundred houses (metaphorically
speaking - it might only be 30, or it might take you 150), and you'll know
what works for you. It was that experience that let me be on and off the
vast majority of the last hundred boats I went aboard in less than a
minute
or two - brokers loved me for that. They probably didn't have the
offsetting appreciation for how specific I was about what worked (and the
demand that I get it before moving forward), though!

Good luck in your searching - and go aboard as many as you can as a
sailor.
Life below and above decks is different on the water!

L8R

Skip


--
"And then again, when you sit at the helm of your little ship on a clear
night, and gaze at the countless stars overhead, and realize that you are
quite alone on a great, wide sea, it is apt to occur to you that in the
general scheme of things you are merely an insignificant speck on the
surface of the ocean; and are not nearly so important or as
self-sufficient
as you thought you were. Which is an exceedingly wholesome thought, and
one
that may effect a permanent change in your deportment that will be greatly
appreciated by your friends."- James S. Pitkin

"Rich Hampel" wrote in message
...
Consider upgrading and refitting a Robert Perry design: Tayana37,
Valiant 40, etc. These older designs (although heavyweight by todays
standards) have dominated passagemaking and voyaging for the past 30+
years. Depending on where you are located the best prices are in
Florida/Gulf Coast. Prices for older still useable/rebuildable (with
alluminum masts) should be in the neighborhood of $65K-100K These
boats are built like Sherman Tanks and usually are quite sound
structurally (overbuilt ).
If you have to refit, figure a 20% added to your purchase price -- and
that may be true for ANY used boat you buy.

Everyone's got their own metrics, but for me, from the start, knowing I was
going to be in the 20-30 year old boat range, I wanted a reserve of 50% of
the purchase price for upgrades and the inevitable surprises that the
surveyor missed, or the weather demanded, or whatever else.

For whatever it may be worth, the supposedly bristol, mega-equipped boat
we're trying to buy isn't any different. It would benefit you to go to the
surveyor's site - David Pascoe - where there's a discussion on surveys, and
how you might react to a less-than-stellar one. I took/take that position,
and as such, am expecting to do my/our best to make this deal work - but it
will be at a significantly higher end cost than the originally agreed-upon
price, because, I've found, the more times you go to a boat, the more you
see that isn't just right, and this one's no different.

My points a

First, try to get educated about the boat type (make, model) you want, in
order to know where the bodies are buried. Once you have, know that most
likely all the boats in that type will have similar problems, and leaving
one boat (due to survey problems) to go to another probably won't provide
you with a meaningfully different experience.

Second, and you may have already come to that decision, if you're thinking
in terms of a purchase price of 80, I'd not be comfortable without a reserve
of 40 behind that. At that (if you've discovered by googling post of mine
here you probably already know), we started at 30-40' and 60k and wound up
at significantly more volume (in our case, 45' hull) and double the budget.
However, that budget initially, and now, included a reserve of 50%...

You've got a while to look, which is great. It's a marvelous experience.
Presumably, you don't have the challenges we do, which makes your choices
far broader. In the course of our initial looking, there were many boats
which fit your criteria that I could even fit on - but which Lydia detested,
and so were immediately scrubbed. Your tastes, inferred from your piloting,
likely will be more practical than emotional :{)) - which will increase your
available potential successful candidates.

I'd have to say, in conclusion, though, that this experience is similar to
my initial looking in real estate investing. There was what the seminars
called the 'hundred house rule' - look at a hundred houses (metaphorically
speaking - it might only be 30, or it might take you 150), and you'll know
what works for you. It was that experience that let me be on and off the
vast majority of the last hundred boats I went aboard in less than a minute
or two - brokers loved me for that. They probably didn't have the
offsetting appreciation for how specific I was about what worked (and the
demand that I get it before moving forward), though!

Good luck in your searching - and go aboard as many as you can as a sailor.
Life below and above decks is different on the water!

L8R

Skip


--
"And then again, when you sit at the helm of your little ship on a clear
night, and gaze at the countless stars overhead, and realize that you are
quite alone on a great, wide sea, it is apt to occur to you that in the
general scheme of things you are merely an insignificant speck on the
surface of the ocean; and are not nearly so important or as self-sufficient
as you thought you were. Which is an exceedingly wholesome thought, and one
that may effect a permanent change in your deportment that will be greatly
appreciated by your friends."- James S. Pitkin

Consider upgrading and refitting a Robert Perry design: Tayana37,
Valiant 40, etc. These older designs (although heavyweight by todays
standards) have dominated passagemaking and voyaging for the past 30+
years. Depending on where you are located the best prices are in
Florida/Gulf Coast. Prices for older still useable/rebuildable (with
alluminum masts) should be in the neighborhood of $65K-100K These
boats are built like Sherman Tanks and usually are quite sound
structurally (overbuilt ).
If you have to refit, figure a 20% added to your purchase price -- and
that may be true for ANY used boat you buy.

Most of the 'good' older ones are offered principally through eMail
discussion groups or 'owners groups' such as on Sailnet, etc. Goto
the Sailnet.com website, follow the links to email discussion groups.
Also you can look up the 'archives' on various designs, etc.: email
archives, etc. on sailnet, etc.

Tayana, Passport, Valiant, Baba, TaShing, etc.



In article .com,
Wendy wrote:

Hi-

I'm new to this group, and while I have done some archive digging I have a
few questions I was hoping I might get some answers to. Specifically, I am
interested in a sailboat in the 35'-40' range that is suitable for serious
offshore work to include transatlantic crossings. The boat should be easy
to sail, obviously well-built, preferably sloop-rigged, and (here's the
catch!) around $80,000 or so. I would live aboard the boat- I'm single with
no kids- while building up a cruising kitty. I am going to look at a 1990
34' Pacific Seacraft this weekend; at $99,000 it is more than I would like
to pay but perhaps it's negotiable. There is also a 1985 Cheoy Lee Pedrick
36 (yes, I know about the teak decks) at $60,000 that has caught my eye.
Obviously one gets what one pays for, and the Seacraft is no doubt the
better boat, but is the Cheoy Lee suitable for serious passages? I know
Westsail is a definite possibility, but what other boats should I consider
based on my plans and price range?

I do not have a lot of sailing experience- some time on 30' Catalinas and a
Hobie Cat. I crewed on a 90' motor yacht in the Caribbean for a year and
also ran 40-50 foot dive boats out of a resort for another couple years, so
the basics of boat operations and upkeep etc are no mystery to me (I know
what I'm getting into here, and must admit that I am wondering about my
sanity

Thanks!

Wendy

"Wendy" wrote in message
vers.com...
Hi-

I'm new to this group, and while I have done some archive digging I have a
few questions I was hoping I might get some answers to. Specifically, I
am
interested in a sailboat in the 35'-40' range that is suitable for serious
offshore work to include transatlantic crossings. The boat should be easy
to sail, obviously well-built, preferably sloop-rigged, and (here's the
catch!) around $80,000 or so. I would live aboard the boat- I'm single
with
no kids- while building up a cruising kitty. I am going to look at a 1990
34' Pacific Seacraft this weekend; at $99,000 it is more than I would like
to pay but perhaps it's negotiable. There is also a 1985 Cheoy Lee
Pedrick
36 (yes, I know about the teak decks) at $60,000 that has caught my eye.
Obviously one gets what one pays for, and the Seacraft is no doubt the
better boat, but is the Cheoy Lee suitable for serious passages? I know
Westsail is a definite possibility, but what other boats should I consider
based on my plans and price range?

http://www.mahina.com/cruise.html#boats4cruising

John Neal's site (expedition sailing adventures) has a very good list of
boats that he considers suitable for offshore trips. I tend to agree with
most of his choices and comments.


--
Evan Gatehouse

you'll have to rewrite my email address to get to me
ceilydh AT 3web dot net
(fools the spammers)

I agree with Evan's view of John Neal's site. I also agree with John Vigor's
"20 Small Sailboats To Take You Anywhere" (boats 20 feet to 33 feet, all of
which have made long ocean passages, the only clinker in the group being a
Catalina 27, included simply because one had circumnavigated).

John Neal's site (expedition sailing adventures) has a very good list of
boats that he considers suitable for offshore trips. I tend to agree with
most of his choices and comments.


--
Evan Gatehouse

you'll have to rewrite my email address to get to me
ceilydh AT 3web dot net
(fools the spammers)

I agree with Evan's view of John Neal's site. I also agree with John Vigor's
"20 Small Sailboats To Take You Anywhere" (boats 20 feet to 33 feet, all of
which have made long ocean passages, the only clinker in the group being a
Catalina 27, included simply because one had circumnavigated).

John Neal's site (expedition sailing adventures) has a very good list of
boats that he considers suitable for offshore trips. I tend to agree with
most of his choices and comments.


--
Evan Gatehouse

you'll have to rewrite my email address to get to me
ceilydh AT 3web dot net
(fools the spammers)