On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:58:38 -0600, "Wendy"
wrote:
I know
Westsail is a definite possibility, but what other boats should I consider
based on my plans and price range?

You are going to get a lot of advice here. I will withhold my valuable
(in other words, free) opinion until I know more about your plans. Are
you single-handing for instance? Are you fit? Are you able to go on a
foredeck in a storm and not fall off? Do you have lots of time or a
schedule? Fast or safe or both (that's the most expensive!)
Stuff like that.

I do not have a lot of sailing experience- some time on 30' Catalinas and a
Hobie Cat. I crewed on a 90' motor yacht in the Caribbean for a year and
also ran 40-50 foot dive boats out of a resort for another couple years, so
the basics of boat operations and upkeep etc are no mystery to me (I know
what I'm getting into here, and must admit that I am wondering about my
sanity

You have more sailing experience than a lot of people if you've crewed
for a year. I would suggest that the best course you could take is to
offer to crew on a transatlantic delivery in return for instruction
and practical experience. In conjunction with this I would encourage
you to take some sort of professionally recognized sailing competency
certification such as the "Six Pack" from the U.S. Coast Guard or the
"Yachtmaster" courses in the UK from the Royal Yachting Association.

Those bits of paper will make you desirable crew, which will inform
you directly as to what is desirable in an offshore cruiser. On your
off-watch, you can read the Smeetons, the Hiscocks, the Pardeys, Hal
Roth, Don Street and a few others from the last 40 years or so who did
things the hard way in ocean cruising so you don't have to. With the
exception of GPS/EPIRBs, hardly any of the "improvements" that will
make your journey a safe and pleasant one are particularly new or
involve electronics.

The good news is that there are a lot of unfashionable (narrow, dark,
overbuilt, no wet bar) old boats that are very suitable for offshore
work, can be altered cheaply and bought for a song because everyone
wants a big-arsed Beneteau to impress the yachtie crowd. There are
some excellent ocean going cruisers made today, but not at your price
point, and most of them are not the "popular" names. An example of a
"good old boat" is the Westsail 32 "Satori". You could look that up
and learn how a well-made boat can survive even a "Perfect Storm".
It's not like the movie had things, by the way.

Your mileage may vary. The best scenario, quite frankly, is getting
the boat of some fastidious perfectionist who died putting the latest
bulletproof roller-furling on his immaculately maintained old 36
footer, leaving a wife who hated sailing and just wants to get rid of
the thing.

Skip Gundlach's saga on this list will inform you mightily. It's worth
it to take the time necessary to decide, because a thousand miles
offshore, there's no tow truck, is there? G

Good luck,

R.

Consider upgrading and refitting a Robert Perry design: Tayana37,
Valiant 40, etc. These older designs (although heavyweight by todays
standards) have dominated passagemaking and voyaging for the past 30+
years. Depending on where you are located the best prices are in
Florida/Gulf Coast. Prices for older still useable/rebuildable (with
alluminum masts) should be in the neighborhood of $65K-100K These
boats are built like Sherman Tanks and usually are quite sound
structurally (overbuilt ).
If you have to refit, figure a 20% added to your purchase price -- and
that may be true for ANY used boat you buy.

Most of the 'good' older ones are offered principally through eMail
discussion groups or 'owners groups' such as on Sailnet, etc. Goto
the Sailnet.com website, follow the links to email discussion groups.
Also you can look up the 'archives' on various designs, etc.: email
archives, etc. on sailnet, etc.

Tayana, Passport, Valiant, Baba, TaShing, etc.



In article .com,
Wendy wrote:

Hi-

I'm new to this group, and while I have done some archive digging I have a
few questions I was hoping I might get some answers to. Specifically, I am
interested in a sailboat in the 35'-40' range that is suitable for serious
offshore work to include transatlantic crossings. The boat should be easy
to sail, obviously well-built, preferably sloop-rigged, and (here's the
catch!) around $80,000 or so. I would live aboard the boat- I'm single with
no kids- while building up a cruising kitty. I am going to look at a 1990
34' Pacific Seacraft this weekend; at $99,000 it is more than I would like
to pay but perhaps it's negotiable. There is also a 1985 Cheoy Lee Pedrick
36 (yes, I know about the teak decks) at $60,000 that has caught my eye.
Obviously one gets what one pays for, and the Seacraft is no doubt the
better boat, but is the Cheoy Lee suitable for serious passages? I know
Westsail is a definite possibility, but what other boats should I consider
based on my plans and price range?

I do not have a lot of sailing experience- some time on 30' Catalinas and a
Hobie Cat. I crewed on a 90' motor yacht in the Caribbean for a year and
also ran 40-50 foot dive boats out of a resort for another couple years, so
the basics of boat operations and upkeep etc are no mystery to me (I know
what I'm getting into here, and must admit that I am wondering about my
sanity

Thanks!

Wendy

Consider upgrading and refitting a Robert Perry design: Tayana37,
Valiant 40, etc. These older designs (although heavyweight by todays
standards) have dominated passagemaking and voyaging for the past 30+
years. Depending on where you are located the best prices are in
Florida/Gulf Coast. Prices for older still useable/rebuildable (with
alluminum masts) should be in the neighborhood of $65K-100K These
boats are built like Sherman Tanks and usually are quite sound
structurally (overbuilt ).
If you have to refit, figure a 20% added to your purchase price -- and
that may be true for ANY used boat you buy.

Most of the 'good' older ones are offered principally through eMail
discussion groups or 'owners groups' such as on Sailnet, etc. Goto
the Sailnet.com website, follow the links to email discussion groups.
Also you can look up the 'archives' on various designs, etc.: email
archives, etc. on sailnet, etc.

Tayana, Passport, Valiant, Baba, TaShing, etc.



In article .com,
Wendy wrote:

Hi-

I'm new to this group, and while I have done some archive digging I have a
few questions I was hoping I might get some answers to. Specifically, I am
interested in a sailboat in the 35'-40' range that is suitable for serious
offshore work to include transatlantic crossings. The boat should be easy
to sail, obviously well-built, preferably sloop-rigged, and (here's the
catch!) around $80,000 or so. I would live aboard the boat- I'm single with
no kids- while building up a cruising kitty. I am going to look at a 1990
34' Pacific Seacraft this weekend; at $99,000 it is more than I would like
to pay but perhaps it's negotiable. There is also a 1985 Cheoy Lee Pedrick
36 (yes, I know about the teak decks) at $60,000 that has caught my eye.
Obviously one gets what one pays for, and the Seacraft is no doubt the
better boat, but is the Cheoy Lee suitable for serious passages? I know
Westsail is a definite possibility, but what other boats should I consider
based on my plans and price range?

I do not have a lot of sailing experience- some time on 30' Catalinas and a
Hobie Cat. I crewed on a 90' motor yacht in the Caribbean for a year and
also ran 40-50 foot dive boats out of a resort for another couple years, so
the basics of boat operations and upkeep etc are no mystery to me (I know
what I'm getting into here, and must admit that I am wondering about my
sanity

Thanks!

Wendy

wrote in message
...
You are going to get a lot of advice here. I will withhold my valuable
(in other words, free) opinion until I know more about your plans. Are
you single-handing for instance? Are you fit? Are you able to go on a
foredeck in a storm and not fall off? Do you have lots of time or a
schedule? Fast or safe or both (that's the most expensive!)
Stuff like that.

Right then- would like to do some single-handing now and again, I am pretty
fit (rock climber), barring 60' seas I doubt I'd fall off, and I probably
have a year or so to find what I want.

You have more sailing experience than a lot of people if you've crewed
for a year. I would suggest that the best course you could take is to
offer to crew on a transatlantic delivery in return for instruction
and practical experience. In conjunction with this I would encourage
you to take some sort of professionally recognized sailing competency
certification such as the "Six Pack" from the U.S. Coast Guard or the
"Yachtmaster" courses in the UK from the Royal Yachting Association.

I have loads of experience on the water, just not much fooling around with
sails. I've all the documents rounded up to sit for the USCG 100-ton
license, I've just not gotten around to doing it. The transatlantic
delivery idea is a good one, but not terribly practical at this point in
time. I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand, though.

The good news is that there are a lot of unfashionable (narrow, dark,
overbuilt, no wet bar) old boats that are very suitable for offshore
work, can be altered cheaply and bought for a song because everyone
wants a big-arsed Beneteau to impress the yachtie crowd.

I am more interested in the former, obviously I'm not averse to a bit of
work, but I decidedly do not want a project. Boats are enough work as it
is.

Your mileage may vary. The best scenario, quite frankly, is getting
the boat of some fastidious perfectionist who died putting the latest
bulletproof roller-furling on his immaculately maintained old 36
footer, leaving a wife who hated sailing and just wants to get rid of
the thing.

One can dream

Skip Gundlach's saga on this list will inform you mightily. It's worth
it to take the time necessary to decide, because a thousand miles
offshore, there's no tow truck, is there? G

I'll google up the saga. I've been doing a bit of flying and, as
problematic as the broken-down boat can be, I can't imagine the situation
would be as dire as an aviation-related failure. I can deal with stress

Good points, all of them- thanks for taking the time to write them.

Wendy

wrote in message
...
You are going to get a lot of advice here. I will withhold my valuable
(in other words, free) opinion until I know more about your plans. Are
you single-handing for instance? Are you fit? Are you able to go on a
foredeck in a storm and not fall off? Do you have lots of time or a
schedule? Fast or safe or both (that's the most expensive!)
Stuff like that.

Right then- would like to do some single-handing now and again, I am pretty
fit (rock climber), barring 60' seas I doubt I'd fall off, and I probably
have a year or so to find what I want.

You have more sailing experience than a lot of people if you've crewed
for a year. I would suggest that the best course you could take is to
offer to crew on a transatlantic delivery in return for instruction
and practical experience. In conjunction with this I would encourage
you to take some sort of professionally recognized sailing competency
certification such as the "Six Pack" from the U.S. Coast Guard or the
"Yachtmaster" courses in the UK from the Royal Yachting Association.

I have loads of experience on the water, just not much fooling around with
sails. I've all the documents rounded up to sit for the USCG 100-ton
license, I've just not gotten around to doing it. The transatlantic
delivery idea is a good one, but not terribly practical at this point in
time. I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand, though.

The good news is that there are a lot of unfashionable (narrow, dark,
overbuilt, no wet bar) old boats that are very suitable for offshore
work, can be altered cheaply and bought for a song because everyone
wants a big-arsed Beneteau to impress the yachtie crowd.

I am more interested in the former, obviously I'm not averse to a bit of
work, but I decidedly do not want a project. Boats are enough work as it
is.

Your mileage may vary. The best scenario, quite frankly, is getting
the boat of some fastidious perfectionist who died putting the latest
bulletproof roller-furling on his immaculately maintained old 36
footer, leaving a wife who hated sailing and just wants to get rid of
the thing.

One can dream

Skip Gundlach's saga on this list will inform you mightily. It's worth
it to take the time necessary to decide, because a thousand miles
offshore, there's no tow truck, is there? G

I'll google up the saga. I've been doing a bit of flying and, as
problematic as the broken-down boat can be, I can't imagine the situation
would be as dire as an aviation-related failure. I can deal with stress

Good points, all of them- thanks for taking the time to write them.

Wendy

Wendy wrote:
I am more interested in the former, obviously I'm not averse to a bit of
work, but I decidedly do not want a project. Boats are enough work as it
is.


Sounds to me like you already know a lot about it. But shopping for the
boat itself can be a daunting project. How are you at library research?
Check out a few references on small boat surveying, the one that I have
on my shelf and find very good is Ian Nicholson's "Surveying Small
Craft." Then you will have some excellent parameters to start weeding
out the boats on the market that you know you don't want.



Skip Gundlach's saga on this list will inform you mightily. It's worth
it to take the time necessary to decide, because a thousand miles
offshore, there's no tow truck, is there? G


I'll google up the saga. I've been doing a bit of flying and, as
problematic as the broken-down boat can be, I can't imagine the situation
would be as dire as an aviation-related failure.

You might be surprised. Things can happen quickly on the water, and
consequences can be dire indeed... I mean, it can be fatal, how much
more dire can it get?

Anyway, it is certainly possible and a very interesting challenge. Go
for it!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Wendy wrote:
I am more interested in the former, obviously I'm not averse to a bit of
work, but I decidedly do not want a project. Boats are enough work as it
is.


Sounds to me like you already know a lot about it. But shopping for the
boat itself can be a daunting project. How are you at library research?
Check out a few references on small boat surveying, the one that I have
on my shelf and find very good is Ian Nicholson's "Surveying Small
Craft." Then you will have some excellent parameters to start weeding
out the boats on the market that you know you don't want.



Skip Gundlach's saga on this list will inform you mightily. It's worth
it to take the time necessary to decide, because a thousand miles
offshore, there's no tow truck, is there? G


I'll google up the saga. I've been doing a bit of flying and, as
problematic as the broken-down boat can be, I can't imagine the situation
would be as dire as an aviation-related failure.

You might be surprised. Things can happen quickly on the water, and
consequences can be dire indeed... I mean, it can be fatal, how much
more dire can it get?

Anyway, it is certainly possible and a very interesting challenge. Go
for it!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

hey eh dude, she is not qualified for a "Six-Pack" license. Not enough time.
Besides, a six pack license is as impressive to most sailors as a Crackjack
ring.

In addition, I have never personally known any sailor who took any sailing
course from anyone, though I have known quite a few sailors who *taught*
sailing courses. Sailing is the best, and cheapest, instruction there is.

Wendy, if you want to do more crewing and a bit offshore (usually no great
shakes) list yourself free on 7knots.com "crew available", save the URL and
send the URL out to anyone expressing a need for crew. It is probably the best
site there is (I have picked up a number of crew ops from there and had to turn
down a number more). Be aware that as a woman who wishes to sail you are in
short supply. Most of the women I have talked to re sailing found this to be
interesting, though of course one or two thought this terrible. I can not
speak for others, but I personally would not take a just-met woman onboard for
an extended passage if there were to be just me and her (some weird women out
there who can be hard to get along with, I assume the same is true of men from
a woman's point of view) but would not feel uncomfortable if there were several
crew onboard. A "captain" always looking for crew and with a bad rep both as a
sailor (justified, he is horse****) and as a scumbag with women is Captain
Jerry Eden, someone to stay away from (the Coast Guard contacted me regarding
various claims said "captain" may have made regarding having a Masters
License). As far as pickup crew goes, I have had only one bad crewing
experience myself, and I walked off a boat owners boat (not a delivery boat)
before it sailed (the boat sunk a few a couple weeks later, the other crew
having walked off as well, with new crew added).

Just my experience (meaning others may have had a totally different experience)
is that only and 1/2 of cruising boats (moving down the ICW) had couples
aboard, while about 25% had 2 or 3 guys aboard, presummably a guy pressed a
buddy or two into helping him move the boat (though some could have been
couples as well), and the last 25% were solo men (never saw a solo woman). The
solo men tended to have smaller boats (easier to handle, less costly to own)
and most were more than eager to say Hello to a woman, there simply weren't
enough women around. Some of the solo guys in big and fancy boats almost
seemed to be trolling in much the same way a 45 year old guy sometimes might
buy a Corvette to troll for chickies. And, like the guy in the Corvette,
seemed to sometimes get a bite.

Wendy, very good luck to you and fair winds.

"Wendy"
wrote:
I know
Westsail is a definite possibility, but what other boats should I consider
based on my plans and price range?

You are going to get a lot of advice here. I will withhold my valuable
(in other words, free) opinion until I know more about your plans. Are
you single-handing for instance? Are you fit? Are you able to go on a
foredeck in a storm and not fall off? Do you have lots of time or a
schedule? Fast or safe or both (that's the most expensive!)
Stuff like that.

I do not have a lot of sailing experience- some time on 30' Catalinas and a
Hobie Cat. I crewed on a 90' motor yacht in the Caribbean for a year and
also ran 40-50 foot dive boats out of a resort for another couple years, so
the basics of boat operations and upkeep etc are no mystery to me (I know
what I'm getting into here, and must admit that I am wondering about my
sanity

You have more sailing experience than a lot of people if you've crewed
for a year. I would suggest that the best course you could take is to
offer to crew on a transatlantic delivery in return for instruction
and practical experience. In conjunction with this I would encourage
you to take some sort of professionally recognized sailing competency
certification such as the "Six Pack" from the U.S. Coast Guard or the
"Yachtmaster" courses in the UK from the Royal Yachting Association.

Those bits of paper will make you desirable crew, which will inform
you directly as to what is desirable in an offshore cruiser. On your
off-watch, you can read the Smeetons, the Hiscocks, the Pardeys, Hal
Roth, Don Street and a few others from the last 40 years or so who did
things the hard way in ocean cruising so you don't have to. With the
exception of GPS/EPIRBs, hardly any of the "improvements" that will
make your journey a safe and pleasant one are particularly new or
involve electronics.

The good news is that there are a lot of unfashionable (narrow, dark,
overbuilt, no wet bar) old boats that are very suitable for offshore
work, can be altered cheaply and bought for a song because everyone
wants a big-arsed Beneteau to impress the yachtie crowd. There are
some excellent ocean going cruisers made today, but not at your price
point, and most of them are not the "popular" names. An example of a
"good old boat" is the Westsail 32 "Satori". You could look that up
and learn how a well-made boat can survive even a "Perfect Storm".
It's not like the movie had things, by the way.

Your mileage may vary. The best scenario, quite frankly, is getting
the boat of some fastidious perfectionist who died putting the latest
bulletproof roller-furling on his immaculately maintained old 36
footer, leaving a wife who hated sailing and just wants to get rid of
the thing.

Skip Gundlach's saga on this list will inform you mightily. It's worth
it to take the time necessary to decide, because a thousand miles
offshore, there's no tow truck, is there? G

Good luck,

R.

hey eh dude, she is not qualified for a "Six-Pack" license. Not enough time.
Besides, a six pack license is as impressive to most sailors as a Crackjack
ring.

In addition, I have never personally known any sailor who took any sailing
course from anyone, though I have known quite a few sailors who *taught*
sailing courses. Sailing is the best, and cheapest, instruction there is.

Wendy, if you want to do more crewing and a bit offshore (usually no great
shakes) list yourself free on 7knots.com "crew available", save the URL and
send the URL out to anyone expressing a need for crew. It is probably the best
site there is (I have picked up a number of crew ops from there and had to turn
down a number more). Be aware that as a woman who wishes to sail you are in
short supply. Most of the women I have talked to re sailing found this to be
interesting, though of course one or two thought this terrible. I can not
speak for others, but I personally would not take a just-met woman onboard for
an extended passage if there were to be just me and her (some weird women out
there who can be hard to get along with, I assume the same is true of men from
a woman's point of view) but would not feel uncomfortable if there were several
crew onboard. A "captain" always looking for crew and with a bad rep both as a
sailor (justified, he is horse****) and as a scumbag with women is Captain
Jerry Eden, someone to stay away from (the Coast Guard contacted me regarding
various claims said "captain" may have made regarding having a Masters
License). As far as pickup crew goes, I have had only one bad crewing
experience myself, and I walked off a boat owners boat (not a delivery boat)
before it sailed (the boat sunk a few a couple weeks later, the other crew
having walked off as well, with new crew added).

Just my experience (meaning others may have had a totally different experience)
is that only and 1/2 of cruising boats (moving down the ICW) had couples
aboard, while about 25% had 2 or 3 guys aboard, presummably a guy pressed a
buddy or two into helping him move the boat (though some could have been
couples as well), and the last 25% were solo men (never saw a solo woman). The
solo men tended to have smaller boats (easier to handle, less costly to own)
and most were more than eager to say Hello to a woman, there simply weren't
enough women around. Some of the solo guys in big and fancy boats almost
seemed to be trolling in much the same way a 45 year old guy sometimes might
buy a Corvette to troll for chickies. And, like the guy in the Corvette,
seemed to sometimes get a bite.

Wendy, very good luck to you and fair winds.

"Wendy"
wrote:
I know
Westsail is a definite possibility, but what other boats should I consider
based on my plans and price range?

You are going to get a lot of advice here. I will withhold my valuable
(in other words, free) opinion until I know more about your plans. Are
you single-handing for instance? Are you fit? Are you able to go on a
foredeck in a storm and not fall off? Do you have lots of time or a
schedule? Fast or safe or both (that's the most expensive!)
Stuff like that.

I do not have a lot of sailing experience- some time on 30' Catalinas and a
Hobie Cat. I crewed on a 90' motor yacht in the Caribbean for a year and
also ran 40-50 foot dive boats out of a resort for another couple years, so
the basics of boat operations and upkeep etc are no mystery to me (I know
what I'm getting into here, and must admit that I am wondering about my
sanity

You have more sailing experience than a lot of people if you've crewed
for a year. I would suggest that the best course you could take is to
offer to crew on a transatlantic delivery in return for instruction
and practical experience. In conjunction with this I would encourage
you to take some sort of professionally recognized sailing competency
certification such as the "Six Pack" from the U.S. Coast Guard or the
"Yachtmaster" courses in the UK from the Royal Yachting Association.

Those bits of paper will make you desirable crew, which will inform
you directly as to what is desirable in an offshore cruiser. On your
off-watch, you can read the Smeetons, the Hiscocks, the Pardeys, Hal
Roth, Don Street and a few others from the last 40 years or so who did
things the hard way in ocean cruising so you don't have to. With the
exception of GPS/EPIRBs, hardly any of the "improvements" that will
make your journey a safe and pleasant one are particularly new or
involve electronics.

The good news is that there are a lot of unfashionable (narrow, dark,
overbuilt, no wet bar) old boats that are very suitable for offshore
work, can be altered cheaply and bought for a song because everyone
wants a big-arsed Beneteau to impress the yachtie crowd. There are
some excellent ocean going cruisers made today, but not at your price
point, and most of them are not the "popular" names. An example of a
"good old boat" is the Westsail 32 "Satori". You could look that up
and learn how a well-made boat can survive even a "Perfect Storm".
It's not like the movie had things, by the way.

Your mileage may vary. The best scenario, quite frankly, is getting
the boat of some fastidious perfectionist who died putting the latest
bulletproof roller-furling on his immaculately maintained old 36
footer, leaving a wife who hated sailing and just wants to get rid of
the thing.

Skip Gundlach's saga on this list will inform you mightily. It's worth
it to take the time necessary to decide, because a thousand miles
offshore, there's no tow truck, is there? G

Good luck,

R.

"Rich Hampel" wrote in message
...
Consider upgrading and refitting a Robert Perry design: Tayana37,
Valiant 40, etc. These older designs (although heavyweight by todays
standards) have dominated passagemaking and voyaging for the past 30+
years. Depending on where you are located the best prices are in
Florida/Gulf Coast. Prices for older still useable/rebuildable (with
alluminum masts) should be in the neighborhood of $65K-100K These
boats are built like Sherman Tanks and usually are quite sound
structurally (overbuilt ).
If you have to refit, figure a 20% added to your purchase price -- and
that may be true for ANY used boat you buy.

Most of the 'good' older ones are offered principally through eMail
discussion groups or 'owners groups' such as on Sailnet, etc. Goto
the Sailnet.com website, follow the links to email discussion groups.
Also you can look up the 'archives' on various designs, etc.: email
archives, etc. on sailnet, etc.

Tayana, Passport, Valiant, Baba, TaShing, etc.

I'm in Texas (Houston area), so it's good to know that Gulf Coast prices are
best. I thought they might be, compared to a California or Maryland price.
OK, I'm off to sailnet now...

Wendy