Hmmmm,
Not to say that the boats on his list aren't good boats, but I dunno if
I can really respect any supposedly comprehensive list of cruising boats
that doesn't include the Tayana. I've never had it confirmed, but I've
been told that more SSCA (Seve Seas Cruising Assoc.) member have the
Tayana 37 than any other single make/model.
Looking at it, I note that neither the Baba not the Union 36 are on it
either. I haven't studied it in depth, but it would seem to be heavily
weighted against the boats in the overbuilt/heavy end of the spectrum.

Nothing wrong with this, as the list just represents his personal
opinions, and he clearly states that "passage-making speed ... is now
high on my personal list of priorities". This is a very valid opinion,
but not the only valid one. Some of us lean more toward the rugged and
comfortable with reasonable to good performance boats (like my Tayana)
http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG

Evan Gatehouse wrote:

"Wendy" wrote in message
rvers.com...


Hi-

I'm new to this group, and while I have done some archive digging I have a
few questions I was hoping I might get some answers to. Specifically, I


am


interested in a sailboat in the 35'-40' range that is suitable for serious
offshore work to include transatlantic crossings. The boat should be easy
to sail, obviously well-built, preferably sloop-rigged, and (here's the
catch!) around $80,000 or so. I would live aboard the boat- I'm single


with


no kids- while building up a cruising kitty. I am going to look at a 1990
34' Pacific Seacraft this weekend; at $99,000 it is more than I would like
to pay but perhaps it's negotiable. There is also a 1985 Cheoy Lee


Pedrick


36 (yes, I know about the teak decks) at $60,000 that has caught my eye.
Obviously one gets what one pays for, and the Seacraft is no doubt the
better boat, but is the Cheoy Lee suitable for serious passages? I know
Westsail is a definite possibility, but what other boats should I consider
based on my plans and price range?



http://www.mahina.com/cruise.html#boats4cruising

John Neal's site (expedition sailing adventures) has a very good list of
boats that he considers suitable for offshore trips. I tend to agree with
most of his choices and comments.


--
Evan Gatehouse

you'll have to rewrite my email address to get to me
ceilydh AT 3web dot net
(fools the spammers)





--
Dan Best - (707) 431-1662, Healdsburg, CA 95448
B-2/75 1977-1979
Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean" http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG

The Tayana 37 gets some minus points for its high center of gravity, which
makes it more tender, more rolly, and gives it a lower limit of positive
stability. It is also not considered to be a fast as it might be.

That said, it is still one beautiful boat, it is said to be the most common
boat out there among cruising couples, and it is "big enough" to liveaboard for
a couple without being a bear to handle under sail. It also has a shallow
enough draft to "do the islands" in some of the shallower harbors, even if this
reduces a bit its pointing ability.

Hmmmm,
Not to say that the boats on his list aren't good boats, but I dunno if
I can really respect any supposedly comprehensive list of cruising boats
that doesn't include the Tayana. I've never had it confirmed, but I've
been told that more SSCA (Seve Seas Cruising Assoc.) member have the
Tayana 37 than any other single make/model.
Looking at it, I note that neither the Baba not the Union 36 are on it
either. I haven't studied it in depth, but it would seem to be heavily
weighted against the boats in the overbuilt/heavy end of the spectrum.

Nothing wrong with this, as the list just represents his personal
opinions, and he clearly states that "passage-making speed ... is now
high on my personal list of priorities". This is a very valid opinion,
but not the only valid one. Some of us lean more toward the rugged and
comfortable with reasonable to good performance boats (like my Tayana)
http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG

Evan Gatehouse wrote:

"Wendy" wrote in message
ervers.com...


Hi-

I'm new to this group, and while I have done some archive digging I have a
few questions I was hoping I might get some answers to. Specifically, I


am


interested in a sailboat in the 35'-40' range that is suitable for serious
offshore work to include transatlantic crossings. The boat should be easy
to sail, obviously well-built, preferably sloop-rigged, and (here's the
catch!) around $80,000 or so. I would live aboard the boat- I'm single


with


no kids- while building up a cruising kitty. I am going to look at a 1990
34' Pacific Seacraft this weekend; at $99,000 it is more than I would like
to pay but perhaps it's negotiable. There is also a 1985 Cheoy Lee


Pedrick


36 (yes, I know about the teak decks) at $60,000 that has caught my eye.
Obviously one gets what one pays for, and the Seacraft is no doubt the
better boat, but is the Cheoy Lee suitable for serious passages? I know
Westsail is a definite possibility, but what other boats should I consider
based on my plans and price range?



http://www.mahina.com/cruise.html#boats4cruising

John Neal's site (expedition sailing adventures) has a very good list of
boats that he considers suitable for offshore trips. I tend to agree with
most of his choices and comments.


--
Evan Gatehouse

you'll have to rewrite my email address to get to me
ceilydh AT 3web dot net
(fools the spammers)





--
Dan Best - (707) 431-1662, Healdsburg, CA 95448
B-2/75 1977-1979
Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean"
http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG

The Tayana 37 gets some minus points for its high center of gravity, which
makes it more tender, more rolly, and gives it a lower limit of positive
stability. It is also not considered to be a fast as it might be.

That said, it is still one beautiful boat, it is said to be the most common
boat out there among cruising couples, and it is "big enough" to liveaboard for
a couple without being a bear to handle under sail. It also has a shallow
enough draft to "do the islands" in some of the shallower harbors, even if this
reduces a bit its pointing ability.

Hmmmm,
Not to say that the boats on his list aren't good boats, but I dunno if
I can really respect any supposedly comprehensive list of cruising boats
that doesn't include the Tayana. I've never had it confirmed, but I've
been told that more SSCA (Seve Seas Cruising Assoc.) member have the
Tayana 37 than any other single make/model.
Looking at it, I note that neither the Baba not the Union 36 are on it
either. I haven't studied it in depth, but it would seem to be heavily
weighted against the boats in the overbuilt/heavy end of the spectrum.

Nothing wrong with this, as the list just represents his personal
opinions, and he clearly states that "passage-making speed ... is now
high on my personal list of priorities". This is a very valid opinion,
but not the only valid one. Some of us lean more toward the rugged and
comfortable with reasonable to good performance boats (like my Tayana)
http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG

Evan Gatehouse wrote:

"Wendy" wrote in message
ervers.com...


Hi-

I'm new to this group, and while I have done some archive digging I have a
few questions I was hoping I might get some answers to. Specifically, I


am


interested in a sailboat in the 35'-40' range that is suitable for serious
offshore work to include transatlantic crossings. The boat should be easy
to sail, obviously well-built, preferably sloop-rigged, and (here's the
catch!) around $80,000 or so. I would live aboard the boat- I'm single


with


no kids- while building up a cruising kitty. I am going to look at a 1990
34' Pacific Seacraft this weekend; at $99,000 it is more than I would like
to pay but perhaps it's negotiable. There is also a 1985 Cheoy Lee


Pedrick


36 (yes, I know about the teak decks) at $60,000 that has caught my eye.
Obviously one gets what one pays for, and the Seacraft is no doubt the
better boat, but is the Cheoy Lee suitable for serious passages? I know
Westsail is a definite possibility, but what other boats should I consider
based on my plans and price range?



http://www.mahina.com/cruise.html#boats4cruising

John Neal's site (expedition sailing adventures) has a very good list of
boats that he considers suitable for offshore trips. I tend to agree with
most of his choices and comments.


--
Evan Gatehouse

you'll have to rewrite my email address to get to me
ceilydh AT 3web dot net
(fools the spammers)





--
Dan Best - (707) 431-1662, Healdsburg, CA 95448
B-2/75 1977-1979
Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean"
http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG

No, The Tayana is not the ideal boat for everybody (shhhhh, don't let
the those on the Tayana listserver know I said that).

And your points are accurate. It is a bit more tender than the
"perfect" boat, but under sail, I'd have to disagree with you about it
being rolly (though under power, you're right). Under sail, it finds an
angle of heel and just locks into it. We still get the for and aft
rocking and vertical heave, but almost no roll component of motion.

Also, with it's full (cutaway forefoot) keel, it tracks like it's on
rails. So well that I can read while hand steering - just glance up
every couple of sentences and perhaps adjust the wheel an inch, and
remember to check the horizon every page or so. Since our previous boat
was a Catalina 30 which required constant vigilance on the helm, I
really love the way it handles. I can even let go of the helm and go up
on the foredeck to fiddle with something and when I get back to the
helm, we're no more than 10 degrees or so off course. The down side to
this is maneuvering around the docks. In the Catalina, when we got to
the slip we just turned into it. To say you have plan the same turn in
the Tayana is an understatement. We've had the boat two years now, and
while I've never crashed it into the dock or my dock neighbors boat (our
marina only has fingers every other boat), entering the slip is
something that raises my blood pressure a tad.

We were also pleasantly surprised with its' performance - though you've
gotta remember what our last boat was. When we've got some wind, we now
comfortably cruise for hours without stressing anything at the same
speeds that were "balls to the wall and pray nothing breaks" on the
Catalina (7.5 - 8.5 kt).

For those that enjoy this style of cruising boat, the Tayana is an
excellent example of it. I could go on and on, but I'm beginning to
sound like an evangelist. Almost as bad as when the subject of
Porta-Botes comes up ;-)

Take care - Dan

JAXAshby wrote:

The Tayana 37 gets some minus points for its high center of gravity, which
makes it more tender, more rolly, and gives it a lower limit of positive
stability. It is also not considered to be a fast as it might be.

That said, it is still one beautiful boat, it is said to be the most common
boat out there among cruising couples, and it is "big enough" to liveaboard for
a couple without being a bear to handle under sail. It also has a shallow
enough draft to "do the islands" in some of the shallower harbors, even if this
reduces a bit its pointing ability.

Hmmmm,


Not to say that the boats on his list aren't good boats, but I dunno if
I can really respect any supposedly comprehensive list of cruising boats
that doesn't include the Tayana. I've never had it confirmed, but I've
been told that more SSCA (Seve Seas Cruising Assoc.) member have the
Tayana 37 than any other single make/model.
Looking at it, I note that neither the Baba not the Union 36 are on it
either. I haven't studied it in depth, but it would seem to be heavily
weighted against the boats in the overbuilt/heavy end of the spectrum.

Nothing wrong with this, as the list just represents his personal
opinions, and he clearly states that "passage-making speed ... is now
high on my personal list of priorities". This is a very valid opinion,
but not the only valid one. Some of us lean more toward the rugged and
comfortable with reasonable to good performance boats (like my Tayana)
http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG


http://www.mahina.com/cruise.html#boats4cruising

John Neal's site (expedition sailing adventures) has a very good list of
boats that he considers suitable for offshore trips. I tend to agree with
most of his choices and comments.



--

Dan Best - (707) 431-1662, Healdsburg, CA 95448
B-2/75 1977-1979
Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean" http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG

No, The Tayana is not the ideal boat for everybody (shhhhh, don't let
the those on the Tayana listserver know I said that).

And your points are accurate. It is a bit more tender than the
"perfect" boat, but under sail, I'd have to disagree with you about it
being rolly (though under power, you're right). Under sail, it finds an
angle of heel and just locks into it. We still get the for and aft
rocking and vertical heave, but almost no roll component of motion.

Also, with it's full (cutaway forefoot) keel, it tracks like it's on
rails. So well that I can read while hand steering - just glance up
every couple of sentences and perhaps adjust the wheel an inch, and
remember to check the horizon every page or so. Since our previous boat
was a Catalina 30 which required constant vigilance on the helm, I
really love the way it handles. I can even let go of the helm and go up
on the foredeck to fiddle with something and when I get back to the
helm, we're no more than 10 degrees or so off course. The down side to
this is maneuvering around the docks. In the Catalina, when we got to
the slip we just turned into it. To say you have plan the same turn in
the Tayana is an understatement. We've had the boat two years now, and
while I've never crashed it into the dock or my dock neighbors boat (our
marina only has fingers every other boat), entering the slip is
something that raises my blood pressure a tad.

We were also pleasantly surprised with its' performance - though you've
gotta remember what our last boat was. When we've got some wind, we now
comfortably cruise for hours without stressing anything at the same
speeds that were "balls to the wall and pray nothing breaks" on the
Catalina (7.5 - 8.5 kt).

For those that enjoy this style of cruising boat, the Tayana is an
excellent example of it. I could go on and on, but I'm beginning to
sound like an evangelist. Almost as bad as when the subject of
Porta-Botes comes up ;-)

Take care - Dan

JAXAshby wrote:

The Tayana 37 gets some minus points for its high center of gravity, which
makes it more tender, more rolly, and gives it a lower limit of positive
stability. It is also not considered to be a fast as it might be.

That said, it is still one beautiful boat, it is said to be the most common
boat out there among cruising couples, and it is "big enough" to liveaboard for
a couple without being a bear to handle under sail. It also has a shallow
enough draft to "do the islands" in some of the shallower harbors, even if this
reduces a bit its pointing ability.

Hmmmm,


Not to say that the boats on his list aren't good boats, but I dunno if
I can really respect any supposedly comprehensive list of cruising boats
that doesn't include the Tayana. I've never had it confirmed, but I've
been told that more SSCA (Seve Seas Cruising Assoc.) member have the
Tayana 37 than any other single make/model.
Looking at it, I note that neither the Baba not the Union 36 are on it
either. I haven't studied it in depth, but it would seem to be heavily
weighted against the boats in the overbuilt/heavy end of the spectrum.

Nothing wrong with this, as the list just represents his personal
opinions, and he clearly states that "passage-making speed ... is now
high on my personal list of priorities". This is a very valid opinion,
but not the only valid one. Some of us lean more toward the rugged and
comfortable with reasonable to good performance boats (like my Tayana)
http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG


http://www.mahina.com/cruise.html#boats4cruising

John Neal's site (expedition sailing adventures) has a very good list of
boats that he considers suitable for offshore trips. I tend to agree with
most of his choices and comments.



--

Dan Best - (707) 431-1662, Healdsburg, CA 95448
B-2/75 1977-1979
Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean" http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG

I do agree with all of Dans comments about the helm stability of a
TY37. Ill also add that with the autopilot disengaged, Ive
occasionally fallen asleep behind the wheel of my TY37 because it does
track so well.

Tayana 37 specific info (and probably applies to most cutter rigged
boats in general) ---
There is an apparent misunderstanding about the staysail trim on a
staysail rigged boat that defies comprehension and is usually
overlooked. Most of the sail set recommendations are derived from sloop
rigged boats. Even Robert Perrry, the designer of the TY37, will state
that the staysail is useless when beating --- Ive found this not to be
so.

With a set staysail when beating most cutter sailors attempt to make
the staysail 'draw' ... and this seems by calculation to be all wrong.
In researching this dilemma Ive found only a single article on proper
staysail set on a beat. This is from an article by the famous
aerodynamicist/sailor Arvel Gentry and appeared in a paperback
compendium: New Best of Sail Trim c. 1980 issued by Sail Mag. Ive
tried it and it seems valid under actual conditions of beating with a
cutter.
Gentry calculated that an intermediate sail set between the genoa and
the main sail .... produced NO thrust/lift as its located in the
relatively quiet zone between genoa and main (and just about anyone
will agree with that statement). However he did calculate that if the
staysail was set flat but with a rounded entry at the luff (hard
halyard tension, etc.) and precisely set at some attack angle to the
centerline what would occur would be a significant reduction of
turbulence at the mast (the staysail essentially aerodynamically
becoming a forward extension of the mainsail) ... mast turbulence
reduction equates to better main sail performance and correspondingly
better enhances genoa efficiency because of the better main sail
efficiency. I use 'gentry-tufts' all over my sail plan to develop max
sail performance efficiency and have found that when beating a flat set
staysl with a distinctly rounded luff entry shape, does in fact add
boat speed (~1/4 kt) @ 15kt. apparent winds. This particular set on
the stay will produce better mainsail flow which gives better upwash to
the genoa (130) !!!!

Thought you'd be interested.

I have a Tayana 37 but by todays 'standards' its a slow boat (174
PHRF) ... If I had unlimited $$$ it would take me three microseconds to
buy a new Saga 43 a sloop with double forestays.


In article s1SSb.196426$xy6.1011826@attbi_s02, Daniel E. Best
wrote:

No, The Tayana is not the ideal boat for everybody (shhhhh, don't let
the those on the Tayana listserver know I said that).

And your points are accurate. It is a bit more tender than the
"perfect" boat, but under sail, I'd have to disagree with you about it
being rolly (though under power, you're right). Under sail, it finds an
angle of heel and just locks into it. We still get the for and aft
rocking and vertical heave, but almost no roll component of motion.

Also, with it's full (cutaway forefoot) keel, it tracks like it's on
rails. So well that I can read while hand steering - just glance up
every couple of sentences and perhaps adjust the wheel an inch, and
remember to check the horizon every page or so. Since our previous boat
was a Catalina 30 which required constant vigilance on the helm, I
really love the way it handles. I can even let go of the helm and go up
on the foredeck to fiddle with something and when I get back to the
helm, we're no more than 10 degrees or so off course. The down side to
this is maneuvering around the docks. In the Catalina, when we got to
the slip we just turned into it. To say you have plan the same turn in
the Tayana is an understatement. We've had the boat two years now, and
while I've never crashed it into the dock or my dock neighbors boat (our
marina only has fingers every other boat), entering the slip is
something that raises my blood pressure a tad.

We were also pleasantly surprised with its' performance - though you've
gotta remember what our last boat was. When we've got some wind, we now
comfortably cruise for hours without stressing anything at the same
speeds that were "balls to the wall and pray nothing breaks" on the
Catalina (7.5 - 8.5 kt).

For those that enjoy this style of cruising boat, the Tayana is an
excellent example of it. I could go on and on, but I'm beginning to
sound like an evangelist. Almost as bad as when the subject of
Porta-Botes comes up ;-)

Take care - Dan

JAXAshby wrote:

The Tayana 37 gets some minus points for its high center of gravity, which
makes it more tender, more rolly, and gives it a lower limit of positive
stability. It is also not considered to be a fast as it might be.

That said, it is still one beautiful boat, it is said to be the most common
boat out there among cruising couples, and it is "big enough" to liveaboard
for
a couple without being a bear to handle under sail. It also has a shallow
enough draft to "do the islands" in some of the shallower harbors, even if
this
reduces a bit its pointing ability.

Hmmmm,


Not to say that the boats on his list aren't good boats, but I dunno if
I can really respect any supposedly comprehensive list of cruising boats
that doesn't include the Tayana. I've never had it confirmed, but I've
been told that more SSCA (Seve Seas Cruising Assoc.) member have the
Tayana 37 than any other single make/model.
Looking at it, I note that neither the Baba not the Union 36 are on it
either. I haven't studied it in depth, but it would seem to be heavily
weighted against the boats in the overbuilt/heavy end of the spectrum.

Nothing wrong with this, as the list just represents his personal
opinions, and he clearly states that "passage-making speed ... is now
high on my personal list of priorities". This is a very valid opinion,
but not the only valid one. Some of us lean more toward the rugged and
comfortable with reasonable to good performance boats (like my Tayana)
http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG


http://www.mahina.com/cruise.html#boats4cruising

John Neal's site (expedition sailing adventures) has a very good list of
boats that he considers suitable for offshore trips. I tend to agree with
most of his choices and comments.

I do agree with all of Dans comments about the helm stability of a
TY37. Ill also add that with the autopilot disengaged, Ive
occasionally fallen asleep behind the wheel of my TY37 because it does
track so well.

Tayana 37 specific info (and probably applies to most cutter rigged
boats in general) ---
There is an apparent misunderstanding about the staysail trim on a
staysail rigged boat that defies comprehension and is usually
overlooked. Most of the sail set recommendations are derived from sloop
rigged boats. Even Robert Perrry, the designer of the TY37, will state
that the staysail is useless when beating --- Ive found this not to be
so.

With a set staysail when beating most cutter sailors attempt to make
the staysail 'draw' ... and this seems by calculation to be all wrong.
In researching this dilemma Ive found only a single article on proper
staysail set on a beat. This is from an article by the famous
aerodynamicist/sailor Arvel Gentry and appeared in a paperback
compendium: New Best of Sail Trim c. 1980 issued by Sail Mag. Ive
tried it and it seems valid under actual conditions of beating with a
cutter.
Gentry calculated that an intermediate sail set between the genoa and
the main sail .... produced NO thrust/lift as its located in the
relatively quiet zone between genoa and main (and just about anyone
will agree with that statement). However he did calculate that if the
staysail was set flat but with a rounded entry at the luff (hard
halyard tension, etc.) and precisely set at some attack angle to the
centerline what would occur would be a significant reduction of
turbulence at the mast (the staysail essentially aerodynamically
becoming a forward extension of the mainsail) ... mast turbulence
reduction equates to better main sail performance and correspondingly
better enhances genoa efficiency because of the better main sail
efficiency. I use 'gentry-tufts' all over my sail plan to develop max
sail performance efficiency and have found that when beating a flat set
staysl with a distinctly rounded luff entry shape, does in fact add
boat speed (~1/4 kt) @ 15kt. apparent winds. This particular set on
the stay will produce better mainsail flow which gives better upwash to
the genoa (130) !!!!

Thought you'd be interested.

I have a Tayana 37 but by todays 'standards' its a slow boat (174
PHRF) ... If I had unlimited $$$ it would take me three microseconds to
buy a new Saga 43 a sloop with double forestays.


In article s1SSb.196426$xy6.1011826@attbi_s02, Daniel E. Best
wrote:

No, The Tayana is not the ideal boat for everybody (shhhhh, don't let
the those on the Tayana listserver know I said that).

And your points are accurate. It is a bit more tender than the
"perfect" boat, but under sail, I'd have to disagree with you about it
being rolly (though under power, you're right). Under sail, it finds an
angle of heel and just locks into it. We still get the for and aft
rocking and vertical heave, but almost no roll component of motion.

Also, with it's full (cutaway forefoot) keel, it tracks like it's on
rails. So well that I can read while hand steering - just glance up
every couple of sentences and perhaps adjust the wheel an inch, and
remember to check the horizon every page or so. Since our previous boat
was a Catalina 30 which required constant vigilance on the helm, I
really love the way it handles. I can even let go of the helm and go up
on the foredeck to fiddle with something and when I get back to the
helm, we're no more than 10 degrees or so off course. The down side to
this is maneuvering around the docks. In the Catalina, when we got to
the slip we just turned into it. To say you have plan the same turn in
the Tayana is an understatement. We've had the boat two years now, and
while I've never crashed it into the dock or my dock neighbors boat (our
marina only has fingers every other boat), entering the slip is
something that raises my blood pressure a tad.

We were also pleasantly surprised with its' performance - though you've
gotta remember what our last boat was. When we've got some wind, we now
comfortably cruise for hours without stressing anything at the same
speeds that were "balls to the wall and pray nothing breaks" on the
Catalina (7.5 - 8.5 kt).

For those that enjoy this style of cruising boat, the Tayana is an
excellent example of it. I could go on and on, but I'm beginning to
sound like an evangelist. Almost as bad as when the subject of
Porta-Botes comes up ;-)

Take care - Dan

JAXAshby wrote:

The Tayana 37 gets some minus points for its high center of gravity, which
makes it more tender, more rolly, and gives it a lower limit of positive
stability. It is also not considered to be a fast as it might be.

That said, it is still one beautiful boat, it is said to be the most common
boat out there among cruising couples, and it is "big enough" to liveaboard
for
a couple without being a bear to handle under sail. It also has a shallow
enough draft to "do the islands" in some of the shallower harbors, even if
this
reduces a bit its pointing ability.

Hmmmm,


Not to say that the boats on his list aren't good boats, but I dunno if
I can really respect any supposedly comprehensive list of cruising boats
that doesn't include the Tayana. I've never had it confirmed, but I've
been told that more SSCA (Seve Seas Cruising Assoc.) member have the
Tayana 37 than any other single make/model.
Looking at it, I note that neither the Baba not the Union 36 are on it
either. I haven't studied it in depth, but it would seem to be heavily
weighted against the boats in the overbuilt/heavy end of the spectrum.

Nothing wrong with this, as the list just represents his personal
opinions, and he clearly states that "passage-making speed ... is now
high on my personal list of priorities". This is a very valid opinion,
but not the only valid one. Some of us lean more toward the rugged and
comfortable with reasonable to good performance boats (like my Tayana)
http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG


http://www.mahina.com/cruise.html#boats4cruising

John Neal's site (expedition sailing adventures) has a very good list of
boats that he considers suitable for offshore trips. I tend to agree with
most of his choices and comments.

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 11:37:20 GMT, "Wendy"
wrote:


"Rodney Myrvaagnes" wrote in message
.. .

You will learn to sail fastest in a boat barely big enough to hold
you. That is because you will feel the effect of everything you do
very soon.

Yah, I've got a 17' Hobie Cat now- very fast, very twitchy. It's the sport
model, with no jib, but it's loads of fun. I've learned a lot on it ("how
to upright your catmaran" was the first lesson I'd just like to step up
to something a bit more serious.

OK, but don't assume that 'more serious'='bigger.' You couldn't get
much more serious than a 49er, for example (not a singlehander--I am
not suggesting it for you). It is only 15 feet long.

For honing sailing skills, and especially seat-of-pants instincts, a
serious one-design fleet is more important than what the boat is. If
there were a fleet of Europe dinghies that you could join (womens'
Olympic singlehander) you could learn really fast. Everyone would help
you, and you would see your progress objectively.


Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the
simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry.
- Richard Dawkins, "Viruses of the Mind"

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 11:37:20 GMT, "Wendy"
wrote:


"Rodney Myrvaagnes" wrote in message
.. .

You will learn to sail fastest in a boat barely big enough to hold
you. That is because you will feel the effect of everything you do
very soon.

Yah, I've got a 17' Hobie Cat now- very fast, very twitchy. It's the sport
model, with no jib, but it's loads of fun. I've learned a lot on it ("how
to upright your catmaran" was the first lesson I'd just like to step up
to something a bit more serious.

OK, but don't assume that 'more serious'='bigger.' You couldn't get
much more serious than a 49er, for example (not a singlehander--I am
not suggesting it for you). It is only 15 feet long.

For honing sailing skills, and especially seat-of-pants instincts, a
serious one-design fleet is more important than what the boat is. If
there were a fleet of Europe dinghies that you could join (womens'
Olympic singlehander) you could learn really fast. Everyone would help
you, and you would see your progress objectively.


Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a

The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the
simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry.
- Richard Dawkins, "Viruses of the Mind"

This article is copied from the Lat. 38 magazine letters section of this
January, and is worth reading. Simply stated, the type of boat that
will suit you best will be obvious to you after you experience more
sailing. Although the article is tailored to the West Coast, I'm sure
that similar opportunities exist where you live.

http://www.latitude38.com/letters/200401.htm

COULD I GO CRUISING BY THE END OF THE YEAR?

Ahoy. I wish to purchase a bluewater cruising boat and sail her to
Easter Island by way of the Galapagos. One small detail - I've never
sailed before. It's also December. I'm looking for help in how to best
attack this goal - apart from waiting until spring.

What sort of vessel am I looking for? My budget is limited to just over
$50,000 to go to sea. Something says ketch, for they have smaller sails
per given sail area, which suggests easier handling, and the mizzen
would appear to be valuable in heavy weather. Are these suppositions
correct, and are they important? I understand already that I'm talking a
large displacement/length ratio for a bluewater cruiser, and therefore
it will be slow, but, of course, I want the room. I hope to get my speed
from having the longest waterline within my budget.

Comparatively, if I buy a cheap vessel in poor condition and spend a
fortune to have it professionally refitted, would I be better off than
with a newer and more expensive boat? A more simple question; Do boats
just go to utter rot, and cheap is cheap?

I have read the Handbook of Sailing. Recognizing the limitations of what
can be learned from a book, it appears rather simple in principle.
Children can sail, after all. Is this a skill one can teach oneself, or
are qualified lessons the only sensible way to learn?

When it comes to the time frame, I have a substantial leg up with
respect to navigation and meteorology - we landlubbers have weather,
too. I'm hoping to buy this vessel in early 2004, learn to sail it
summer/fall 2004, and head for the southern hemisphere in early 2005. Is
this wildly optimistic? I'm a bright lad, but wonder if a feller can
learn to sail well enough for bluewater in a single year? I do not plan
to go alone, although not necessarily with crew more experienced than I.
Considering logistics, regulations and so forth, what time frame would
be realistic for me?

I think you get my drift, which is that I currently know just enough to
be lost with all hands. Please toss me some suggestions, including, if
you must, evaluations of my sanity.

TIA
Silverhawk

TIA - If you have passion, at least average intelligence, and $50,000,
there's no reason you can't safely cruise to Mexico this fall and the
South Pacific early next year. Lots of folks have learned to sail and
bought and prepared a boat in such a time span.

Take it from someone who has never taken a sailing lesson, the most
important thing you can do is take sailing lessons rather than try to
teach yourself or learn haphazardly from friends. However, we might
suggest waiting until March so you'll be able to learn in reliably
strong winds. In addition to the basic classes you might take on the Bay
- a great place to learn - you should also sign up for one or more
three-day offshore adventures to Catalina or the Channel Islands. This
will not be money thrown away, but rather a good investment in your
future cruising pleasure.

Come the third week in March, you should fly down to Puerto Vallarta for
the Banderas Bay Regatta. There are three days of fun racing, so if you
play your cards right, you'll be able to crew on three entirely
different kinds of cruising boats. In addition, you'll be able to walk
the docks and see hundreds of other boats that have been cruised to
Mexico, and talk with their owners. If you want, you could easily get a
crew position on a boat going up to La Paz or down to Acapulco.

As soon as the Beer Can Races start in April, you should participate as
frequently as possible as crew. Yes, we know you're not interested in
racing, but that's not the point. Your goal should be to observe others
having a great time with their boats while maneuvering at high speed in
close quarters, and to sail on as many different types of boats as
possible. When the Master Mariners Regatta rolls around on Memorial Day,
make sure you get a spot as crew for that event, too. During the race,
observe how the various kinds of rigs perform in different conditions.

By June, you could have finished several basic sailing courses, been out
sailing at least 50 times, been offshore a couple of days, and sailed on
scores of different boats. By this time you'll have started to develop
quite a bit of confidence, as well as a good idea of what kind of boat
appeals to you - and it might be something entirely different than what
appeals to you now.

By the end of July or August, you should be able to find a
decently-equipped boat that easily fits into your budget. We suggest
that you avoid complicated fixer-uppers, because you don't know enough
about boats at this time to properly evaluate them. It would be better
for you to get a simple boat with gear that works. Once you buy your
boat, sail her three or four times a week on San Francisco Bay, and at
night, too. By September, cruise her down to the Channel Islands and
Catalina for offshore and anchoring practice. Do the Ha-Ha at the end of
October. Cruise the Sea of Cortez in November and December, and mainland
Mexico from December to March - not forgetting the Banderas Bay Regatta
in March. The first week in April, head off to the Galapagos, French
Polynesia or wherever.

The only thing preventing you - or any other person with $50,000 - from
following this plan is a lack of desire.