thus a long
roll period. I personally now like a long roll period as I dont get so
beat up as when on a 'quick period' boat. I find I puke less when
slow rolling than snap rolling.

I understand the US Navy spent some time and effort to see why sailors get
seasick, and how to stop or reduce it. I understand about 1/3 get sick from a
quick motion, 1/3 from a long motion, and the rest from a combination of the
two.

In addition, not only is a 600 sq ft main sail 3x the weight of a 200 ft sail,
it is also 3x time sq rt 3 more effort to tighten in against the wind. 3x
because it is 3x bigger, and sq rt 3 times because the circle you have to pull
in against gets bigger.

Still, a T-37 catches my attention.

On 30 Jan 2004 16:30:40 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

a.) it was condescending to women,

Only in your fevered mind, apparently.

b.) all lines led aft both dramaticly increases friction and the chance of
failure in high wind conditions, it also makes one psychologically unable to go
forward under conditions when one HAS to go forward, and

It can, but usually doesn't unless there are a number of unnecessary
turns. Internal halyards aren't usually carried away by the wind, and
if it's that high, tearing out your Spinlock is the least of your
worries.

If what you were saying had much validity, we wouldn't have roller
furling. Almost all cruisers do. I don't, and thus have that "real
world" experience you so rarely believe others except yourself to
possess.

c.) the center cockpit vs aft cockpit is a far more serious discussion that to
say it is better for the "little lady to see over".

Well, it's also better for the little man, I suppose, but my five foot
tall wife is quite happy on the tiller of my 34' C&C design in 35
knots. Other stronger, taller women and any number of men wouldn't be.
The preference is as much personal as practical. These days, Mini Me
can drive a Volvo 60 with the right equipment...so physicality is no
obstacle. Attitude and comfort levels are. Ellen MacArthur is five
two, after all, and she's probably in the top five ocean racer list.


The reason people like cc boats is that they get a full width aft stateroom.

That's *one* reason.

To get that aft stateroom they get a lower performing boat, and a boat that
usually can not have an effective windwave set up.

I'll have to tell my center-cockpit ketch owning buddy to return that
Voyager windvane, then. He obviously doesn't know when he's being
steered effectively.

Wendy has stated she wants
an ocean going boat to go ocean going (trying to cross serious bluewater
without a windvane is kinda dumb, unless one is motoring the entire way. Also,
electric auto pilots have serious reliability issues, burn LOTS of hard to
replace amps, and don't steer well as the winds pick up, just the area where
wind vanes come into their own).

I actually agree with you, JAX. Windvane and autopilot fill each
others' gaps, as last month's Cruising World article putting the two
devices head-to-head in ocean conditions demonstrated. Where I differ
is in positing that self-steering and a center-cockpit boat are
necessarily opposed. They aren't.

She also wants something under 40 feet (ALL
cc boats under 40 ar Ugh Lee, and really poor performers to boot), and perhaps
as small as 30 feet (only really weird duck boats have cc's under 35 feet).

ALL of them, eh? That sailing simulator you own is some piece of work,
JAX. Anyway, thanks for being the gallant arbiter of insult to females
everywhere. I'm sure you are in many prayers tonight.

On 30 Jan 2004 16:30:40 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

a.) it was condescending to women,

Only in your fevered mind, apparently.

b.) all lines led aft both dramaticly increases friction and the chance of
failure in high wind conditions, it also makes one psychologically unable to go
forward under conditions when one HAS to go forward, and

It can, but usually doesn't unless there are a number of unnecessary
turns. Internal halyards aren't usually carried away by the wind, and
if it's that high, tearing out your Spinlock is the least of your
worries.

If what you were saying had much validity, we wouldn't have roller
furling. Almost all cruisers do. I don't, and thus have that "real
world" experience you so rarely believe others except yourself to
possess.

c.) the center cockpit vs aft cockpit is a far more serious discussion that to
say it is better for the "little lady to see over".

Well, it's also better for the little man, I suppose, but my five foot
tall wife is quite happy on the tiller of my 34' C&C design in 35
knots. Other stronger, taller women and any number of men wouldn't be.
The preference is as much personal as practical. These days, Mini Me
can drive a Volvo 60 with the right equipment...so physicality is no
obstacle. Attitude and comfort levels are. Ellen MacArthur is five
two, after all, and she's probably in the top five ocean racer list.


The reason people like cc boats is that they get a full width aft stateroom.

That's *one* reason.

To get that aft stateroom they get a lower performing boat, and a boat that
usually can not have an effective windwave set up.

I'll have to tell my center-cockpit ketch owning buddy to return that
Voyager windvane, then. He obviously doesn't know when he's being
steered effectively.

Wendy has stated she wants
an ocean going boat to go ocean going (trying to cross serious bluewater
without a windvane is kinda dumb, unless one is motoring the entire way. Also,
electric auto pilots have serious reliability issues, burn LOTS of hard to
replace amps, and don't steer well as the winds pick up, just the area where
wind vanes come into their own).

I actually agree with you, JAX. Windvane and autopilot fill each
others' gaps, as last month's Cruising World article putting the two
devices head-to-head in ocean conditions demonstrated. Where I differ
is in positing that self-steering and a center-cockpit boat are
necessarily opposed. They aren't.

She also wants something under 40 feet (ALL
cc boats under 40 ar Ugh Lee, and really poor performers to boot), and perhaps
as small as 30 feet (only really weird duck boats have cc's under 35 feet).

ALL of them, eh? That sailing simulator you own is some piece of work,
JAX. Anyway, thanks for being the gallant arbiter of insult to females
everywhere. I'm sure you are in many prayers tonight.

x-no-archive:yes


Rich Hampel wrote:

In article , JAXAshby
wrote:

so why take USPS courses? Not much to learn there you couldn't learn
in 30 seconds in a West Marine store talking to a pimply faced kid.

I don't frequent West Marine. Actually I almost never shop. I hate
shopping and since I have arthritis in my back which makes standing
painful (although I can walk OK) I wouldn't be in a store anyway
unless I had something that I urgently needed and Bob wasn't available
to get it for me.

Nor do I find any particular fun in talking to pimply faced or even
non-pimply faced kids. I'd rather sit in a classroom and harass a
teacherg

ROTFLMAO
ROTFLMAO
ROTFLMAO
ROTFLMAO
...... but the statement rings true !!!!!!!


GOOD ONE!!!

grandma Rosalie

x-no-archive:yes


Rich Hampel wrote:

In article , JAXAshby
wrote:

so why take USPS courses? Not much to learn there you couldn't learn
in 30 seconds in a West Marine store talking to a pimply faced kid.

I don't frequent West Marine. Actually I almost never shop. I hate
shopping and since I have arthritis in my back which makes standing
painful (although I can walk OK) I wouldn't be in a store anyway
unless I had something that I urgently needed and Bob wasn't available
to get it for me.

Nor do I find any particular fun in talking to pimply faced or even
non-pimply faced kids. I'd rather sit in a classroom and harass a
teacherg

ROTFLMAO
ROTFLMAO
ROTFLMAO
ROTFLMAO
...... but the statement rings true !!!!!!!


GOOD ONE!!!

grandma Rosalie

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
I understand the US Navy spent some time and effort to see why sailors get
seasick, and how to stop or reduce it. I understand about 1/3 get sick
from a
quick motion, 1/3 from a long motion, and the rest from a combination of
the
two.

I've seen people get sick going from a dock to a tied-up boat- that's the
extreme. I don't get sick, and I know I am fortunate. Seasickness is
misery for those who get it. Dunno why people do, but I am convinced (with
no factual evidence to back up my convictions) that a lot of the cause is in
the afflicted's mind. When I was five or so my family returned from Europe
on the SS United States (I just dated myself . I remember throwing up all
the way across. First time I went out on a military ship I threw up once;
I'm convinced it was the fruit juice sloshing around in my stomach. Since
then it's never happened- 30+ foot seas on ships, and 15 foot seas on large
boats; have had 42 foot power boats coming off the tops of waves and
smashing into the troughs with nary a quease at all. I'm lucky, I know. I
always felt bad for people who get sick; it is the ultimate misery.

Wendy

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
I understand the US Navy spent some time and effort to see why sailors get
seasick, and how to stop or reduce it. I understand about 1/3 get sick
from a
quick motion, 1/3 from a long motion, and the rest from a combination of
the
two.

I've seen people get sick going from a dock to a tied-up boat- that's the
extreme. I don't get sick, and I know I am fortunate. Seasickness is
misery for those who get it. Dunno why people do, but I am convinced (with
no factual evidence to back up my convictions) that a lot of the cause is in
the afflicted's mind. When I was five or so my family returned from Europe
on the SS United States (I just dated myself . I remember throwing up all
the way across. First time I went out on a military ship I threw up once;
I'm convinced it was the fruit juice sloshing around in my stomach. Since
then it's never happened- 30+ foot seas on ships, and 15 foot seas on large
boats; have had 42 foot power boats coming off the tops of waves and
smashing into the troughs with nary a quease at all. I'm lucky, I know. I
always felt bad for people who get sick; it is the ultimate misery.

Wendy

hey, rhys, NO one suggested you were forced to buy the "Japanese Standard" in
condoms. You wanted a center cockpit boat, you got one. Live with it. Motor
with it. Enjoy the large aft stateroom/small salon. It was your choice.

Wendy, however, was asking about a serious bluewater boat she could singlehand.
Different criteria she has than you had. If she had said she wanted to motor
down/up the ICW twice a year, "sail" over to the Bahamas, tie to a dock for
extended periods of time, drink iced drinks starting at 3 in the afternoon and
running til sundown people would have given her different advise. But Wendy
didn't ask for that type of boat, she asked for a genuine bluewater sailor 30'
40' she could singlehand.

I say, Good for Wendy.

btw, rhys, have *you* ever purposely spun an airplane?(indeed, do you even know
how?) Wendy has, for the fun of it. She will do just fine as a sailor.

(JAXAshby) wrote:

a.) it was condescending to women,

Only in your fevered mind, apparently.

b.) all lines led aft both dramaticly increases friction and the chance of
failure in high wind conditions, it also makes one psychologically unable to
go
forward under conditions when one HAS to go forward, and

It can, but usually doesn't unless there are a number of unnecessary
turns. Internal halyards aren't usually carried away by the wind, and
if it's that high, tearing out your Spinlock is the least of your
worries.

If what you were saying had much validity, we wouldn't have roller
furling. Almost all cruisers do. I don't, and thus have that "real
world" experience you so rarely believe others except yourself to
possess.

c.) the center cockpit vs aft cockpit is a far more serious discussion that
to
say it is better for the "little lady to see over".

Well, it's also better for the little man, I suppose, but my five foot
tall wife is quite happy on the tiller of my 34' C&C design in 35
knots. Other stronger, taller women and any number of men wouldn't be.
The preference is as much personal as practical. These days, Mini Me
can drive a Volvo 60 with the right equipment...so physicality is no
obstacle. Attitude and comfort levels are. Ellen MacArthur is five
two, after all, and she's probably in the top five ocean racer list.


The reason people like cc boats is that they get a full width aft stateroom.


That's *one* reason.

To get that aft stateroom they get a lower performing boat, and a boat that
usually can not have an effective windwave set up.

I'll have to tell my center-cockpit ketch owning buddy to return that
Voyager windvane, then. He obviously doesn't know when he's being
steered effectively.

Wendy has stated she wants
an ocean going boat to go ocean going (trying to cross serious bluewater
without a windvane is kinda dumb, unless one is motoring the entire way.
Also,
electric auto pilots have serious reliability issues, burn LOTS of hard to
replace amps, and don't steer well as the winds pick up, just the area where
wind vanes come into their own).

I actually agree with you, JAX. Windvane and autopilot fill each
others' gaps, as last month's Cruising World article putting the two
devices head-to-head in ocean conditions demonstrated. Where I differ
is in positing that self-steering and a center-cockpit boat are
necessarily opposed. They aren't.

She also wants something under 40 feet (ALL
cc boats under 40 ar Ugh Lee, and really poor performers to boot), and
perhaps
as small as 30 feet (only really weird duck boats have cc's under 35 feet).

ALL of them, eh? That sailing simulator you own is some piece of work,
JAX. Anyway, thanks for being the gallant arbiter of insult to females
everywhere. I'm sure you are in many prayers tonight.

hey, rhys, NO one suggested you were forced to buy the "Japanese Standard" in
condoms. You wanted a center cockpit boat, you got one. Live with it. Motor
with it. Enjoy the large aft stateroom/small salon. It was your choice.

Wendy, however, was asking about a serious bluewater boat she could singlehand.
Different criteria she has than you had. If she had said she wanted to motor
down/up the ICW twice a year, "sail" over to the Bahamas, tie to a dock for
extended periods of time, drink iced drinks starting at 3 in the afternoon and
running til sundown people would have given her different advise. But Wendy
didn't ask for that type of boat, she asked for a genuine bluewater sailor 30'
40' she could singlehand.

I say, Good for Wendy.

btw, rhys, have *you* ever purposely spun an airplane?(indeed, do you even know
how?) Wendy has, for the fun of it. She will do just fine as a sailor.

(JAXAshby) wrote:

a.) it was condescending to women,

Only in your fevered mind, apparently.

b.) all lines led aft both dramaticly increases friction and the chance of
failure in high wind conditions, it also makes one psychologically unable to
go
forward under conditions when one HAS to go forward, and

It can, but usually doesn't unless there are a number of unnecessary
turns. Internal halyards aren't usually carried away by the wind, and
if it's that high, tearing out your Spinlock is the least of your
worries.

If what you were saying had much validity, we wouldn't have roller
furling. Almost all cruisers do. I don't, and thus have that "real
world" experience you so rarely believe others except yourself to
possess.

c.) the center cockpit vs aft cockpit is a far more serious discussion that
to
say it is better for the "little lady to see over".

Well, it's also better for the little man, I suppose, but my five foot
tall wife is quite happy on the tiller of my 34' C&C design in 35
knots. Other stronger, taller women and any number of men wouldn't be.
The preference is as much personal as practical. These days, Mini Me
can drive a Volvo 60 with the right equipment...so physicality is no
obstacle. Attitude and comfort levels are. Ellen MacArthur is five
two, after all, and she's probably in the top five ocean racer list.


The reason people like cc boats is that they get a full width aft stateroom.


That's *one* reason.

To get that aft stateroom they get a lower performing boat, and a boat that
usually can not have an effective windwave set up.

I'll have to tell my center-cockpit ketch owning buddy to return that
Voyager windvane, then. He obviously doesn't know when he's being
steered effectively.

Wendy has stated she wants
an ocean going boat to go ocean going (trying to cross serious bluewater
without a windvane is kinda dumb, unless one is motoring the entire way.
Also,
electric auto pilots have serious reliability issues, burn LOTS of hard to
replace amps, and don't steer well as the winds pick up, just the area where
wind vanes come into their own).

I actually agree with you, JAX. Windvane and autopilot fill each
others' gaps, as last month's Cruising World article putting the two
devices head-to-head in ocean conditions demonstrated. Where I differ
is in positing that self-steering and a center-cockpit boat are
necessarily opposed. They aren't.

She also wants something under 40 feet (ALL
cc boats under 40 ar Ugh Lee, and really poor performers to boot), and
perhaps
as small as 30 feet (only really weird duck boats have cc's under 35 feet).

ALL of them, eh? That sailing simulator you own is some piece of work,
JAX. Anyway, thanks for being the gallant arbiter of insult to females
everywhere. I'm sure you are in many prayers tonight.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
btw, rhys, have *you* ever purposely spun an airplane?(indeed, do you even
know
how?) Wendy has, for the fun of it. She will do just fine as a sailor.

Flying is flying, and sailing is sailing. I think they are two different
and distinct skill sets, and proficiency in one will not necessarily
indicate proficiency in the other, navigation notwithsanding. While events
occur much more rapidly in an airplane than in a boat, what is more
important is that the dimensional and situational aspects are completely
different, and thus require different skill sets. I can fly. I can't sail-
haven't got a clue what to do when decision time rolls around as regards
reefing, what sail to set, etc. The fact that I was able to learn how to
fly indicates that I might be able to learn how to sail. No more, no less.

Wendy