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#21
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Survey question
Want an easy way to go up the mast?
Get a Harken # 1549 and a Harken # 1550 and I'll let you figure it out from there. Gordon |
#22
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Survey question
Rosalie B. wrote:
cavelamb himself wrote: So I'm reading the survey for one of the boats that I'm looking at. It's a Catalina 36 = 1984 model Moored in fresh water now, but has been in salt water. Under Surveyer's Recommendations are a list of items that needed attention. It's not a long list but there is one item (C rated) that I'm kinda concerned about. It says "All items aloft (spars, rigging, fittings, hardware, etc) should be visually inspected for condition by a qualified/experienced yacht rigger or equivelent". Is this normal for a professional survey? Yes but it is more of a disclaimer than anything. When we had our boat surveyed before purchase, we got Peter Hartoff who several people recommended as the best around here. He did everything except the rigging. He did an in water survey first and then had us haul the boat, and did the hull, and then he took the boat out for a sea trial. We had told him what use we intended to make of the boat, so his survey was based on that. When the marina wanted proof of insurance several years later, and the insurance company wanted a survey first, we got another guy, and he used the previous survey to check that we'd done the A list things and the B list things and basically looked to see that nothing else had gone terribly long in the interval. He did the survey with the boat in the water - we didn't haul it for him. And, like everything else on the list it it maked off, "done". But I don't yet know who the equivelent was. Who marked it 'done'. The only way to find out is to ask. Although they may not tell you. Bingo! That was my question as well. Which has, so far, not been answered.. Which is why I'm pestering you nice people... Yes, this is a previous survey - four years ago. But I don't know the intended purpose yet. If this deal goes further, I will have a pre-purchase survey done. This is just the starting point. And, of course, my first Big Boat Buy. A boat this old, I don't expect to be in like new condition. Most people just don't bother (sad). There are a lot of things I can handle myself, There are a lot of things I can't - and would have to hire out. But I don't want to pay NEW prices for worn out stuff if I can avoid it. Richard |
#23
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Survey question
"cavelamb himself" wrote in message news:KU%vi.1542$jU4.1225@trnddc02... Rosalie B. wrote: cavelamb himself wrote: So I'm reading the survey for one of the boats that I'm looking at. It's a Catalina 36 = 1984 model Moored in fresh water now, but has been in salt water. Under Surveyer's Recommendations are a list of items that needed attention. It's not a long list but there is one item (C rated) that I'm kinda concerned about. It says "All items aloft (spars, rigging, fittings, hardware, etc) should be visually inspected for condition by a qualified/experienced yacht rigger or equivelent". Is this normal for a professional survey? Yes but it is more of a disclaimer than anything. When we had our boat surveyed before purchase, we got Peter Hartoff who several people recommended as the best around here. He did everything except the rigging. He did an in water survey first and then had us haul the boat, and did the hull, and then he took the boat out for a sea trial. We had told him what use we intended to make of the boat, so his survey was based on that. When the marina wanted proof of insurance several years later, and the insurance company wanted a survey first, we got another guy, and he used the previous survey to check that we'd done the A list things and the B list things and basically looked to see that nothing else had gone terribly long in the interval. He did the survey with the boat in the water - we didn't haul it for him. And, like everything else on the list it it maked off, "done". But I don't yet know who the equivelent was. Who marked it 'done'. The only way to find out is to ask. Although they may not tell you. Bingo! That was my question as well. Which has, so far, not been answered.. Which is why I'm pestering you nice people... Yes, this is a previous survey - four years ago. But I don't know the intended purpose yet. If this deal goes further, I will have a pre-purchase survey done. This is just the starting point. And, of course, my first Big Boat Buy. A boat this old, I don't expect to be in like new condition. Most people just don't bother (sad). There are a lot of things I can handle myself, There are a lot of things I can't - and would have to hire out. But I don't want to pay NEW prices for worn out stuff if I can avoid it. Richard I'm afraid you're off on the wrong track, Richard. If you're buying a fixer-upper it's going to end up costing you about the same as if you bought a new boat is you pay somebody to do all the fixing up. Boat yards charge outrageous hourly rates in case you've never partaken of their services. The only way paying somebody else to do the work is an economically viable route is if you happen to be making very large amounts of money yourself. In other words if you make 200 dollars an hour then it makes sense to pay somebody 100 dollars an hour to do your fixer-upping work for you. If you buy the boat keep a log of any and all expenses. Initial cost, taxes, registration fees, title fees, documentation fees, etc. Include the survey fees. Include anything you spend money on directed at the boat. This would include yard fees, parts, labor fees etc. It doesn't take long before a boat you "thought" you were paying 50 grand for becomes a boat you're paying a hundred grand for. You can almost buy a new boat for that and spend your time sailing instead of fixing upping. If you make low wages, then and only then does it become smart to buy a cheap used boat and fix it up. Paying somebody else will end you up with a cheap used boat that costs about the same as a cheap new boat. What's Catalina get for a new 34-footer these days? Maybe last years model new that hasn't sold yet? Wilbur Hubbard |
#24
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Survey question
Wilbur Hubbard wrote:
"cavelamb himself" wrote in message news:KU%vi.1542$jU4.1225@trnddc02... Rosalie B. wrote: cavelamb himself wrote: So I'm reading the survey for one of the boats that I'm looking at. It's a Catalina 36 = 1984 model Moored in fresh water now, but has been in salt water. Under Surveyer's Recommendations are a list of items that needed attention. It's not a long list but there is one item (C rated) that I'm kinda concerned about. It says "All items aloft (spars, rigging, fittings, hardware, etc) should be visually inspected for condition by a qualified/experienced yacht rigger or equivelent". Is this normal for a professional survey? Yes but it is more of a disclaimer than anything. When we had our boat surveyed before purchase, we got Peter Hartoff who several people recommended as the best around here. He did everything except the rigging. He did an in water survey first and then had us haul the boat, and did the hull, and then he took the boat out for a sea trial. We had told him what use we intended to make of the boat, so his survey was based on that. When the marina wanted proof of insurance several years later, and the insurance company wanted a survey first, we got another guy, and he used the previous survey to check that we'd done the A list things and the B list things and basically looked to see that nothing else had gone terribly long in the interval. He did the survey with the boat in the water - we didn't haul it for him. And, like everything else on the list it it maked off, "done". But I don't yet know who the equivelent was. Who marked it 'done'. The only way to find out is to ask. Although they may not tell you. Bingo! That was my question as well. Which has, so far, not been answered.. Which is why I'm pestering you nice people... Yes, this is a previous survey - four years ago. But I don't know the intended purpose yet. If this deal goes further, I will have a pre-purchase survey done. This is just the starting point. And, of course, my first Big Boat Buy. A boat this old, I don't expect to be in like new condition. Most people just don't bother (sad). There are a lot of things I can handle myself, There are a lot of things I can't - and would have to hire out. But I don't want to pay NEW prices for worn out stuff if I can avoid it. Richard I'm afraid you're off on the wrong track, Richard. If you're buying a fixer-upper it's going to end up costing you about the same as if you bought a new boat is you pay somebody to do all the fixing up. Boat yards charge outrageous hourly rates in case you've never partaken of their services. The only way paying somebody else to do the work is an economically viable route is if you happen to be making very large amounts of money yourself. In other words if you make 200 dollars an hour then it makes sense to pay somebody 100 dollars an hour to do your fixer-upping work for you. If you buy the boat keep a log of any and all expenses. Initial cost, taxes, registration fees, title fees, documentation fees, etc. Include the survey fees. Include anything you spend money on directed at the boat. This would include yard fees, parts, labor fees etc. It doesn't take long before a boat you "thought" you were paying 50 grand for becomes a boat you're paying a hundred grand for. You can almost buy a new boat for that and spend your time sailing instead of fixing upping. If you make low wages, then and only then does it become smart to buy a cheap used boat and fix it up. Paying somebody else will end you up with a cheap used boat that costs about the same as a cheap new boat. What's Catalina get for a new 34-footer these days? Maybe last years model new that hasn't sold yet? Wilbur Hubbard I've looked at a few "fixer-uppers" and completely agree with you about winding up paying more than it might cost for one in better condition. After the first hand experience of bringing my little eighteen back to life I am absolutely sure I don't want to go through that with ne twice the size!!! What was fun is moderation would be a money pit ordeal at this scale. That's the main reason I brought all this up here - where there are a lot of people who have been through the process and have learned what's what... Mostly I've been looking in the 30 foot range. I have a pretty good feel for the Catalina 30's - after a year on their list reading about what others have to do to keep them going. While I think the 30 would make a fine coastal boat, I'm not so convinced it is really roomy enough to live aboard comfortably. This particular 36 is looking better as we discuss it more. I'm in touch with the owners, rather than an agent. And they are answering my questions. It just takes time some times for the lady to get data from hubby and reply. I think we are going to have to go see this boat in person... I can't quite prices on a 34. But a new 36 goes $180 to $200 (or more!) depending on how it is equipped. At this level it seems like everything is "optional" and "custom". You can probably guess what those catch words do to prices... Richard |
#25
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Survey question
"cavelamb himself" wrote in message news:FX1wi.476$5Q5.45@trnddc05... Wilbur Hubbard wrote: largish snip I can't quote prices on a 34. But a new 36 goes $180 to $200 (or more!) depending on how it is equipped. At this level it seems like everything is "optional" and "custom". You can probably guess what those catch words do to prices... Getting the base model is the way to go. You can add stuff as you need it or want it. http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache...k&cd=5&g l=us Looks like 120 K or so for a new 34 Wilbur Hubbard |
#26
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Survey question
On Aug 12, 8:52 pm, cavelamb himself wrote:
So I'm reading the survey for one of the boats that I'm looking at. It's a Catalina 36 = 1984 model Moored in fresh water now, but has been in salt water. Under Surveyer's Recommendations are a list of items that needed attention. It's not a long list but there is one item (C rated) that I'm kinda concerned about. It says "All items aloft (spars, rigging, fittings, hardware, etc) should be visually inspected for condition by a qualified/experienced yacht rigger or equivelent". Is this normal for a professional survey? And, like everything else on the list it it maked off, "done". But I don't yet know who the equivelent was. So I'm a little curious here. Do I need to hire a professional rigger to check the rigging in a situation like this? I mean, replacing all the standing rigging on any boat is not a trivial matter. Now I don't necessarily have to have new rigging on the boat I buy, but if it needs to be replaced I need to know up front. And adjust the price as appropriate... Richard A good surveyor should go aloft and check the rigging himself . It does not require a riggers expertise or a degree in metallurgy. You may or may not need to replace your standing rigging. It would help if you knew if it was original or not but even if it is it is not necessarily due. If you plan on extensive cruising I would want to know its age though. You can inspect it yourself probably with more competence than your average surveryor after doing a little online "how to" research. The good news is most rigging problems involving corrosion are down low not aloft. Your main concerns are crevice corrosion, which you cannot inspect without dissassembly of the suspect parts and no surveyor is going to do this. The other main concern is crevice cracks and these you can detect yourself with a magnifying glass and a lot of patience. There are dyes you can rub into the stainless to help spot cracks. That aside I were you I would hire a diesel mechanic to go over the auxiliary. It is by far the most expensive thing to fix on the boat. Then check for core rot in the deck. Again you can do this yourself. |
#27
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Survey question
One more VERY important thing. Be absolutely sure your surveyor
checked for any core rot, especially in the deck. This is big time expensive to fix if you hire the work out. Your deck may or may not be cored but probably is. |
#28
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Survey question
On 2007-08-12 20:52:09 -0400, cavelamb himself said:
It says "All items aloft (spars, rigging, fittings, hardware, etc) should be visually inspected for condition by a qualified/experienced yacht rigger or equivelent". Is this normal for a professional survey? As other said, yes. As far as getting it inspected, if I were in your shoes, I would have it done. In fact, I did and listened to the guy explain what he was doing. BUT I found that learning how to inspect the fittings (the weak link) made me feel safer. I've not replaced ours, probably a bit older than yours, except for the forestay (required when we got the furler.) I'm comfortable with that where and how we sail, but would reconsider if either changed. I also am a bit of a nut who uses his Loos gauge several times a season to get an objective measurement of possible problems. (That caught a bad bulkhead a few years ago.) Your comfort level, though, is paramount. If you're nervous about the integrity of the boat, you won't get as much enjoyment. -- Jere Lull Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's new pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI pages: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
#29
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Survey question
"Jeff" wrote in message
.. . Why don't you just call your surveyor and ask him? You must realize of course, that if this is a survey the seller gave you its worth about as much as him saying "My brother-in-law thinks its a real good boat." There are two types of surveys, a proper survey where the buyer wants to find every little thing that has gone bad, will go bad, and might go bad in the boat; and an insurance survey which says that the boat probably won't sink or blow up in the next 2 years, and isn't concerned with the all the minor things that are falling off (i.e. not covered by insurance). The insurance surveyor is often found by the seller's broker when the buyer realizes he'll need the survey for insurance. He is a "house surveyor" and wouldn't remain one long if he convinced buyers not to buy. On top of that, in most places you don't need a license or certification to call yourself a surveyor. Before you seriously look at boats you should find a surveyor that you're comfortable with, and have a discussion about the type of boat you're looking for, and what he recommends as conditions for the survey. For instance, if the boat is on the hard, can he do a proper engine survey? Might he require invasive tests that need the seller's permission? * cavelamb himself wrote, On 8/12/2007 8:52 PM: So I'm reading the survey for one of the boats that I'm looking at. It's a Catalina 36 = 1984 model Moored in fresh water now, but has been in salt water. Under Surveyer's Recommendations are a list of items that needed attention. It's not a long list but there is one item (C rated) that I'm kinda concerned about. It says "All items aloft (spars, rigging, fittings, hardware, etc) should be visually inspected for condition by a qualified/experienced yacht rigger or equivelent". Is this normal for a professional survey? And, like everything else on the list it it maked off, "done". But I don't yet know who the equivelent was. So I'm a little curious here. Do I need to hire a professional rigger to check the rigging in a situation like this? I mean, replacing all the standing rigging on any boat is not a trivial matter. Now I don't necessarily have to have new rigging on the boat I buy, but if it needs to be replaced I need to know up front. And adjust the price as appropriate... Richard -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Interesting.. when I bought my boat, I used a surveyor from several previous buying experiences who I knew would be thorough. He sent his report at my request directly to the insurance company. They called me and said he missed a couple of things. (He didn't actually miss them, but did forget to write them down.) So, he resubmitted and the insurance company was happy. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
#30
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Survey question
"Capt. JG" wrote in message ... "Jeff" wrote in message .. . Why don't you just call your surveyor and ask him? You must realize of course, that if this is a survey the seller gave you its worth about as much as him saying "My brother-in-law thinks its a real good boat." There are two types of surveys, a proper survey where the buyer wants to find every little thing that has gone bad, will go bad, and might go bad in the boat; and an insurance survey which says that the boat probably won't sink or blow up in the next 2 years, and isn't concerned with the all the minor things that are falling off (i.e. not covered by insurance). The insurance surveyor is often found by the seller's broker when the buyer realizes he'll need the survey for insurance. He is a "house surveyor" and wouldn't remain one long if he convinced buyers not to buy. On top of that, in most places you don't need a license or certification to call yourself a surveyor. Before you seriously look at boats you should find a surveyor that you're comfortable with, and have a discussion about the type of boat you're looking for, and what he recommends as conditions for the survey. For instance, if the boat is on the hard, can he do a proper engine survey? Might he require invasive tests that need the seller's permission? * cavelamb himself wrote, On 8/12/2007 8:52 PM: So I'm reading the survey for one of the boats that I'm looking at. It's a Catalina 36 = 1984 model Moored in fresh water now, but has been in salt water. Under Surveyer's Recommendations are a list of items that needed attention. It's not a long list but there is one item (C rated) that I'm kinda concerned about. It says "All items aloft (spars, rigging, fittings, hardware, etc) should be visually inspected for condition by a qualified/experienced yacht rigger or equivelent". Is this normal for a professional survey? And, like everything else on the list it it maked off, "done". But I don't yet know who the equivelent was. So I'm a little curious here. Do I need to hire a professional rigger to check the rigging in a situation like this? I mean, replacing all the standing rigging on any boat is not a trivial matter. Now I don't necessarily have to have new rigging on the boat I buy, but if it needs to be replaced I need to know up front. And adjust the price as appropriate... Richard -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Interesting.. when I bought my boat, I used a surveyor from several previous buying experiences who I knew would be thorough. He sent his report at my request directly to the insurance company. They called me and said he missed a couple of things. (He didn't actually miss them, but did forget to write them down.) So, he resubmitted and the insurance company was happy. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com If you intent it to find out what is wrong with a boat that you want to purchase a proper survey is the way to go. However, this is not a guaranty that nothing is wrong with the boat. A surveyor is only responsible for what he or she can find with the naked eyes and today's technology. This is good enough for the insurance companies. More so when the surveyor tells you that the replacement or market value is evaluated at so much that what the insurance want you to cover your boat for the evaluated amount. |
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