Survey question
 

So I'm reading the survey for one of the boats that I'm looking at.
It's a Catalina 36 = 1984 model

Moored in fresh water now, but has been in salt water.

Under Surveyer's Recommendations are a list of items that needed attention.

It's not a long list but there is one item (C rated) that I'm
kinda concerned about.

It says "All items aloft (spars, rigging, fittings, hardware, etc)
should be visually inspected for condition by a qualified/experienced
yacht rigger or equivelent".

Is this normal for a professional survey?

And, like everything else on the list it it maked off, "done".

But I don't yet know who the equivelent was.

So I'm a little curious here.

Do I need to hire a professional rigger to check the rigging in a
situation like this?

I mean, replacing all the standing rigging on any boat is not a trivial
matter.

Now I don't necessarily have to have new rigging on the boat I buy, but
if it needs to be replaced I need to know up front. And adjust the price
as appropriate...

Richard

Survey question
 

cavelamb himself wrote in news:ZWNvi.17489
$SV4.5430@trnddc08:

It says "All items aloft (spars, rigging, fittings, hardware, etc)
should be visually inspected for condition by a qualified/experienced
yacht rigger or equivelent".

Is this normal for a professional survey?



You don't expect a old fat guy, swaggering around like Hitler in Sperry
Topsiders, floppy Panama Jack hat and expensive yacht club clothes, to
climb the mast and know what he's looking at just because he's charging
you hundreds of dollars for a few minutes of his time walking around the
boat, do you?

You certainly don't expect him to show up in DIRTY COVERALLS ready to
really dig around under the engine to see how much is left of the
stringers/hull/engine mounts/leaky things, either, right?

One of them got ****ed at me when I asked him if he wasn't going to get
those nice clothes and shoes all dirty doing a proper inspection in the
bilge of an old Hatteras down our docks. The guy who hired him heard me
ask him and asked me what I was talking about. My reply was, "How is
anyone going to see what the engine, plumbing and electrical problems are
without getting all dirty LOOKING for them? He doesn't look clairvoyant
to me."

Someone needs to throw those goddamned hats overboard, kick their sorry
asses and tell 'em to get to work doing what buyers are paying them to
do. It's not about looking like the bogus Commodore of the yacht club.

I think surveyors should look just like engine mechanics coming down the
dock. It'd also be nice if they had half the mechanic's brains and
experience, too.

Survey question
 

Larry wrote:

cavelamb himself wrote in news:ZWNvi.17489
$SV4.5430@trnddc08:


It says "All items aloft (spars, rigging, fittings, hardware, etc)
should be visually inspected for condition by a qualified/experienced
yacht rigger or equivelent".

Is this normal for a professional survey?




You don't expect a old fat guy, swaggering around like Hitler in Sperry
Topsiders, floppy Panama Jack hat and expensive yacht club clothes, to
climb the mast and know what he's looking at just because he's charging
you hundreds of dollars for a few minutes of his time walking around the
boat, do you?

You certainly don't expect him to show up in DIRTY COVERALLS ready to
really dig around under the engine to see how much is left of the
stringers/hull/engine mounts/leaky things, either, right?

One of them got ****ed at me when I asked him if he wasn't going to get
those nice clothes and shoes all dirty doing a proper inspection in the
bilge of an old Hatteras down our docks. The guy who hired him heard me
ask him and asked me what I was talking about. My reply was, "How is
anyone going to see what the engine, plumbing and electrical problems are
without getting all dirty LOOKING for them? He doesn't look clairvoyant
to me."

Someone needs to throw those goddamned hats overboard, kick their sorry
asses and tell 'em to get to work doing what buyers are paying them to
do. It's not about looking like the bogus Commodore of the yacht club.

I think surveyors should look just like engine mechanics coming down the
dock. It'd also be nice if they had half the mechanic's brains and
experience, too.


Well, now. I certaintly can't argue with your fine rant, larry.

But...

Survey question
 

"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
news:ZWNvi.17489$SV4.5430@trnddc08...
So I'm reading the survey for one of the boats that I'm looking at.
It's a Catalina 36 = 1984 model

Moored in fresh water now, but has been in salt water.

Under Surveyer's Recommendations are a list of items that needed
attention.

It's not a long list but there is one item (C rated) that I'm
kinda concerned about.

It says "All items aloft (spars, rigging, fittings, hardware, etc)
should be visually inspected for condition by a qualified/experienced
yacht rigger or equivelent".

Is this normal for a professional survey?

And, like everything else on the list it it maked off, "done".

But I don't yet know who the equivelent was.

So I'm a little curious here.

Do I need to hire a professional rigger to check the rigging in a
situation like this?

I mean, replacing all the standing rigging on any boat is not a
trivial
matter.

Now I don't necessarily have to have new rigging on the boat I buy,
but
if it needs to be replaced I need to know up front. And adjust the
price
as appropriate...


1984 means it's 27 years old. Yes, all the standing rigging needs to be
replaced. Don't waste money on a "professional rigger" checking it
because he'll tell you the same thing.

It's not all that expensive if you do it yourself one shroud or stay at
a time and use Sta-Lok mechanical terminals and top-of-the-line 1 x 19
wire. But, if it doesn't have mast steps installed you'll have to do
that first because replacing standing rigging one wire at a time
involves many trips up the mast.

Wilbur Hubbard

Survey question
 

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 01:05:01 +0000, Larry wrote:

cavelamb himself wrote in news:ZWNvi.17489
$SV4.5430@trnddc08:

It says "All items aloft (spars, rigging, fittings, hardware, etc)
should be visually inspected for condition by a qualified/experienced
yacht rigger or equivelent".

Is this normal for a professional survey?



You don't expect a old fat guy, swaggering around like Hitler in Sperry
Topsiders, floppy Panama Jack hat and expensive yacht club clothes, to
climb the mast and know what he's looking at just because he's charging
you hundreds of dollars for a few minutes of his time walking around the
boat, do you?

You certainly don't expect him to show up in DIRTY COVERALLS ready to
really dig around under the engine to see how much is left of the
stringers/hull/engine mounts/leaky things, either, right?

One of them got ****ed at me when I asked him if he wasn't going to get
those nice clothes and shoes all dirty doing a proper inspection in the
bilge of an old Hatteras down our docks. The guy who hired him heard me
ask him and asked me what I was talking about. My reply was, "How is
anyone going to see what the engine, plumbing and electrical problems are
without getting all dirty LOOKING for them? He doesn't look clairvoyant
to me."

Someone needs to throw those goddamned hats overboard, kick their sorry
asses and tell 'em to get to work doing what buyers are paying them to
do. It's not about looking like the bogus Commodore of the yacht club.

I think surveyors should look just like engine mechanics coming down the
dock. It'd also be nice if they had half the mechanic's brains and
experience, too.

Funny stuff, Larry. And I agree. Five marine surveyors are required
if you can't do it yourself:
Rigging - qualified rigger/sailor
Engine - qualified engine mechanic
Plumbing - qualified plumber
Electrical - qualified electrician
Structure - qualified hull tech
Then get the optional "official surveyor" if you need him for
insurance.
You could get the first 5 for a beer each if you know them, or
50 bucks each if you don't. Probably save you some money and
surprises in the long run.

--Vic

Survey question
 

Vic Smith wrote:
On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 01:05:01 +0000, Larry wrote:

cavelamb himself wrote in news:ZWNvi.17489
$SV4.5430@trnddc08:

It says "All items aloft (spars, rigging, fittings, hardware, etc)
should be visually inspected for condition by a qualified/experienced
yacht rigger or equivelent".

Is this normal for a professional survey?


You don't expect a old fat guy, swaggering around like Hitler in Sperry
Topsiders, floppy Panama Jack hat and expensive yacht club clothes, to
climb the mast and know what he's looking at just because he's charging
you hundreds of dollars for a few minutes of his time walking around the
boat, do you?

You certainly don't expect him to show up in DIRTY COVERALLS ready to
really dig around under the engine to see how much is left of the
stringers/hull/engine mounts/leaky things, either, right?

One of them got ****ed at me when I asked him if he wasn't going to get
those nice clothes and shoes all dirty doing a proper inspection in the
bilge of an old Hatteras down our docks. The guy who hired him heard me
ask him and asked me what I was talking about. My reply was, "How is
anyone going to see what the engine, plumbing and electrical problems are
without getting all dirty LOOKING for them? He doesn't look clairvoyant
to me."

Someone needs to throw those goddamned hats overboard, kick their sorry
asses and tell 'em to get to work doing what buyers are paying them to
do. It's not about looking like the bogus Commodore of the yacht club.

I think surveyors should look just like engine mechanics coming down the
dock. It'd also be nice if they had half the mechanic's brains and
experience, too.

Funny stuff, Larry. And I agree. Five marine surveyors are required
if you can't do it yourself:
Rigging - qualified rigger/sailor
Engine - qualified engine mechanic
Plumbing - qualified plumber
Electrical - qualified electrician
Structure - qualified hull tech
Then get the optional "official surveyor" if you need him for
insurance.
You could get the first 5 for a beer each if you know them, or
50 bucks each if you don't. Probably save you some money and
surprises in the long run.

--Vic

You certainly won't get a good rigger out here (So. Calif.) to go aloft
and really inspect everything for $50.

Alan Gomes

Survey question
 

On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 19:13:37 -0700, Alan Gomes wrote:

You certainly won't get a good rigger out here (So. Calif.) to go aloft
and really inspect everything for $50.

More like $85/hour in most places, minimum 2 or 3 guys if anyone's
going aloft.

Truth is, it is very difficult to properly inspect everthing with the
rig still in the boat. Having a professional rigger go aloft is
better than nothing however.

A lot of surveyors will inspect from the ground using binoculars to
look for obvious signs of wear like broken wires but that is about all
they can do. Usually there will be words in the survey report to that
effect.

Survey question
 

On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 21:15:26 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

But, if it doesn't have mast steps installed you'll have to do
that first because replacing standing rigging one wire at a time
involves many trips up the mast.

Mast steps are for amateurs Wilbur. You should know that. They
weaken the mast, foul halyards and rip sails.

Survey question
 

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 00:52:09 GMT, cavelamb himself
wrote:

So I'm reading the survey for one of the boats that I'm looking at.
It's a Catalina 36 = 1984 model

Moored in fresh water now, but has been in salt water.

Under Surveyer's Recommendations are a list of items that needed attention.

It's not a long list but there is one item (C rated) that I'm
kinda concerned about.

It says "All items aloft (spars, rigging, fittings, hardware, etc)
should be visually inspected for condition by a qualified/experienced
yacht rigger or equivelent".

Is this normal for a professional survey?

And, like everything else on the list it it maked off, "done".

But I don't yet know who the equivelent was.

So I'm a little curious here.

Do I need to hire a professional rigger to check the rigging in a
situation like this?

I mean, replacing all the standing rigging on any boat is not a trivial
matter.

Now I don't necessarily have to have new rigging on the boat I buy, but
if it needs to be replaced I need to know up front. And adjust the price
as appropriate...

Richard


The statement is simply an "out" for the surveyor. It means that he
didn't inspect the rigging.

Having said that, have a good friend who is a Lloyd's Inspector and
does frequent inspection of VLCC, etc., usually to determine what
repairs will be required to have the vessel pass class inspection,
whether for sale or modification, repair, etc..

He inspects the hull, tanks, piping and valves, tank venting, steering
gear, in short the mechanical portion of the ship. He does not inspect
the electronics or radios.

So, it is not unusual, in the commercial world, for a surveyor to
inspect only certain portions of a vessel. However -- when you
contract with Lloyd's for a survey you will sign a contract that
specify in excruciating detail exactly what they will inspect for.

To answer you question though, yes, if the boat is close to ten years
old I would have the rigging inspected.

Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)

Survey question
 

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

1984 means it's 27 years old. Yes, all the standing rigging needs to be
replaced. Don't waste money on a "professional rigger" checking it
because he'll tell you the same thing.

It's not all that expensive if you do it yourself one shroud or stay at
a time and use Sta-Lok mechanical terminals and top-of-the-line 1 x 19
wire. But, if it doesn't have mast steps installed you'll have to do
that first because replacing standing rigging one wire at a time
involves many trips up the mast.

Wilbur Hubbard


That was my read on it as well.

But the survey says the recommended inspection was "done"..
But not what was found...

I figure the age + the salt = it needs to be replaced.

We'll adjust the price accordingly.

There was a link dropped here to an interesting (actually down right
scary! ) article about the corrosion that develops inside connectors
due to salt water contact.

Wasn't that long ago, but no idea where it went now.

Richard