Survey question
 

Want an easy way to go up the mast?
Get a Harken # 1549 and a Harken # 1550 and I'll let you figure it
out from there.
Gordon

Survey question
 

Rosalie B. wrote:

cavelamb himself wrote:


So I'm reading the survey for one of the boats that I'm looking at.
It's a Catalina 36 = 1984 model

Moored in fresh water now, but has been in salt water.

Under Surveyer's Recommendations are a list of items that needed attention.

It's not a long list but there is one item (C rated) that I'm
kinda concerned about.

It says "All items aloft (spars, rigging, fittings, hardware, etc)
should be visually inspected for condition by a qualified/experienced
yacht rigger or equivelent".

Is this normal for a professional survey?


Yes but it is more of a disclaimer than anything.

When we had our boat surveyed before purchase, we got Peter Hartoff
who several people recommended as the best around here. He did
everything except the rigging. He did an in water survey first and
then had us haul the boat, and did the hull, and then he took the boat
out for a sea trial. We had told him what use we intended to make of
the boat, so his survey was based on that.

When the marina wanted proof of insurance several years later, and the
insurance company wanted a survey first, we got another guy, and he
used the previous survey to check that we'd done the A list things and
the B list things and basically looked to see that nothing else had
gone terribly long in the interval. He did the survey with the boat
in the water - we didn't haul it for him.

And, like everything else on the list it it maked off, "done".
But I don't yet know who the equivelent was.


Who marked it 'done'. The only way to find out is to ask. Although
they may not tell you.

Bingo! That was my question as well.

Which has, so far, not been answered..

Which is why I'm pestering you nice people...

Yes, this is a previous survey - four years ago.
But I don't know the intended purpose yet.

If this deal goes further, I will have a pre-purchase survey done.

This is just the starting point.
And, of course, my first Big Boat Buy.

A boat this old, I don't expect to be in like new condition.
Most people just don't bother (sad).

There are a lot of things I can handle myself,
There are a lot of things I can't - and would have to hire out.

But I don't want to pay NEW prices for worn out stuff if I can
avoid it.

Richard

Survey question
 

"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
news:KU%vi.1542$jU4.1225@trnddc02...
Rosalie B. wrote:

cavelamb himself wrote:


So I'm reading the survey for one of the boats that I'm looking at.
It's a Catalina 36 = 1984 model

Moored in fresh water now, but has been in salt water.

Under Surveyer's Recommendations are a list of items that needed
attention.

It's not a long list but there is one item (C rated) that I'm
kinda concerned about.

It says "All items aloft (spars, rigging, fittings, hardware, etc)
should be visually inspected for condition by a qualified/experienced
yacht rigger or equivelent".

Is this normal for a professional survey?


Yes but it is more of a disclaimer than anything. When we had our
boat surveyed before purchase, we got Peter Hartoff
who several people recommended as the best around here. He did
everything except the rigging. He did an in water survey first and
then had us haul the boat, and did the hull, and then he took the
boat
out for a sea trial. We had told him what use we intended to make of
the boat, so his survey was based on that. When the marina wanted
proof of insurance several years later, and the
insurance company wanted a survey first, we got another guy, and he
used the previous survey to check that we'd done the A list things
and
the B list things and basically looked to see that nothing else had
gone terribly long in the interval. He did the survey with the boat
in the water - we didn't haul it for him.

And, like everything else on the list it it maked off, "done".
But I don't yet know who the equivelent was.


Who marked it 'done'. The only way to find out is to ask. Although
they may not tell you.

Bingo! That was my question as well.

Which has, so far, not been answered..

Which is why I'm pestering you nice people...

Yes, this is a previous survey - four years ago.
But I don't know the intended purpose yet.

If this deal goes further, I will have a pre-purchase survey done.

This is just the starting point.
And, of course, my first Big Boat Buy.

A boat this old, I don't expect to be in like new condition.
Most people just don't bother (sad).

There are a lot of things I can handle myself,
There are a lot of things I can't - and would have to hire out.

But I don't want to pay NEW prices for worn out stuff if I can
avoid it.

Richard

I'm afraid you're off on the wrong track, Richard. If you're buying a
fixer-upper it's going to end up costing you about the same as if you
bought a new boat is you pay somebody to do all the fixing up. Boat
yards charge outrageous hourly rates in case you've never partaken of
their services.

The only way paying somebody else to do the work is an economically
viable route is if you happen to be making very large amounts of money
yourself. In other words if you make 200 dollars an hour then it makes
sense to pay somebody 100 dollars an hour to do your fixer-upping work
for you.

If you buy the boat keep a log of any and all expenses. Initial cost,
taxes, registration fees, title fees, documentation fees, etc. Include
the survey fees. Include anything you spend money on directed at the
boat. This would include yard fees, parts, labor fees etc. It doesn't
take long before a boat you "thought" you were paying 50 grand for
becomes a boat you're paying a hundred grand for. You can almost buy a
new boat for that and spend your time sailing instead of fixing upping.

If you make low wages, then and only then does it become smart to buy a
cheap used boat and fix it up. Paying somebody else will end you up with
a cheap used boat that costs about the same as a cheap new boat. What's
Catalina get for a new 34-footer these days? Maybe last years model new
that hasn't sold yet?

Wilbur Hubbard

Survey question
 

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
news:KU%vi.1542$jU4.1225@trnddc02...

Rosalie B. wrote:

cavelamb himself wrote:


So I'm reading the survey for one of the boats that I'm looking at.
It's a Catalina 36 = 1984 model

Moored in fresh water now, but has been in salt water.

Under Surveyer's Recommendations are a list of items that needed
attention.

It's not a long list but there is one item (C rated) that I'm
kinda concerned about.

It says "All items aloft (spars, rigging, fittings, hardware, etc)
should be visually inspected for condition by a qualified/experienced
yacht rigger or equivelent".

Is this normal for a professional survey?



Yes but it is more of a disclaimer than anything. When we had our
boat surveyed before purchase, we got Peter Hartoff
who several people recommended as the best around here. He did
everything except the rigging. He did an in water survey first and
then had us haul the boat, and did the hull, and then he took the boat
out for a sea trial. We had told him what use we intended to make of
the boat, so his survey was based on that. When the marina wanted
proof of insurance several years later, and the
insurance company wanted a survey first, we got another guy, and he
used the previous survey to check that we'd done the A list things and
the B list things and basically looked to see that nothing else had
gone terribly long in the interval. He did the survey with the boat
in the water - we didn't haul it for him.

And, like everything else on the list it it maked off, "done".
But I don't yet know who the equivelent was.



Who marked it 'done'. The only way to find out is to ask. Although
they may not tell you.


Bingo! That was my question as well.

Which has, so far, not been answered..

Which is why I'm pestering you nice people...

Yes, this is a previous survey - four years ago.
But I don't know the intended purpose yet.

If this deal goes further, I will have a pre-purchase survey done.

This is just the starting point.
And, of course, my first Big Boat Buy.

A boat this old, I don't expect to be in like new condition.
Most people just don't bother (sad).

There are a lot of things I can handle myself,
There are a lot of things I can't - and would have to hire out.

But I don't want to pay NEW prices for worn out stuff if I can
avoid it.

Richard


I'm afraid you're off on the wrong track, Richard. If you're buying a
fixer-upper it's going to end up costing you about the same as if you
bought a new boat is you pay somebody to do all the fixing up. Boat
yards charge outrageous hourly rates in case you've never partaken of
their services.

The only way paying somebody else to do the work is an economically
viable route is if you happen to be making very large amounts of money
yourself. In other words if you make 200 dollars an hour then it makes
sense to pay somebody 100 dollars an hour to do your fixer-upping work
for you.

If you buy the boat keep a log of any and all expenses. Initial cost,
taxes, registration fees, title fees, documentation fees, etc. Include
the survey fees. Include anything you spend money on directed at the
boat. This would include yard fees, parts, labor fees etc. It doesn't
take long before a boat you "thought" you were paying 50 grand for
becomes a boat you're paying a hundred grand for. You can almost buy a
new boat for that and spend your time sailing instead of fixing upping.

If you make low wages, then and only then does it become smart to buy a
cheap used boat and fix it up. Paying somebody else will end you up with
a cheap used boat that costs about the same as a cheap new boat. What's
Catalina get for a new 34-footer these days? Maybe last years model new
that hasn't sold yet?

Wilbur Hubbard

I've looked at a few "fixer-uppers" and completely agree with you about
winding up paying more than it might cost for one in better condition.

After the first hand experience of bringing my little eighteen back to
life I am absolutely sure I don't want to go through that with ne twice
the size!!! What was fun is moderation would be a money pit ordeal at
this scale.

That's the main reason I brought all this up here - where there are a
lot of people who have been through the process and have learned what's
what...

Mostly I've been looking in the 30 foot range. I have a pretty good
feel for the Catalina 30's - after a year on their list reading about
what others have to do to keep them going.

While I think the 30 would make a fine coastal boat, I'm not so
convinced it is really roomy enough to live aboard comfortably.

This particular 36 is looking better as we discuss it more.

I'm in touch with the owners, rather than an agent. And they are
answering my questions. It just takes time some times for the
lady to get data from hubby and reply.

I think we are going to have to go see this boat in person...

I can't quite prices on a 34. But a new 36 goes $180 to $200
(or more!) depending on how it is equipped. At this level it
seems like everything is "optional" and "custom".

You can probably guess what those catch words do to prices...


Richard

Survey question
 

"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
news:FX1wi.476$5Q5.45@trnddc05...
Wilbur Hubbard wrote:
largish snip

I can't quote prices on a 34. But a new 36 goes $180 to $200
(or more!) depending on how it is equipped. At this level it
seems like everything is "optional" and "custom".

You can probably guess what those catch words do to prices...

Getting the base model is the way to go. You can add stuff as you need
it or want it.

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache...k&cd=5&g l=us

Looks like 120 K or so for a new 34

Wilbur Hubbard

Survey question
 

On Aug 12, 8:52 pm, cavelamb himself wrote:
So I'm reading the survey for one of the boats that I'm looking at.
It's a Catalina 36 = 1984 model

Moored in fresh water now, but has been in salt water.

Under Surveyer's Recommendations are a list of items that needed attention.

It's not a long list but there is one item (C rated) that I'm
kinda concerned about.

It says "All items aloft (spars, rigging, fittings, hardware, etc)
should be visually inspected for condition by a qualified/experienced
yacht rigger or equivelent".

Is this normal for a professional survey?

And, like everything else on the list it it maked off, "done".

But I don't yet know who the equivelent was.

So I'm a little curious here.

Do I need to hire a professional rigger to check the rigging in a
situation like this?

I mean, replacing all the standing rigging on any boat is not a trivial
matter.

Now I don't necessarily have to have new rigging on the boat I buy, but
if it needs to be replaced I need to know up front. And adjust the price
as appropriate...

Richard

A good surveyor should go aloft and check the rigging himself . It
does not require a riggers expertise or a degree in metallurgy.

You may or may not need to replace your standing rigging. It would
help if you knew if it was original or not but even if it is it is not
necessarily due. If you plan on extensive cruising I would want to
know its age though.

You can inspect it yourself probably with more competence than your
average surveryor after doing a little online "how to" research. The
good news is most rigging problems involving corrosion are down low
not aloft.
Your main concerns are crevice corrosion, which you cannot inspect
without dissassembly of the suspect parts and no surveyor is going to
do this. The other main concern is crevice cracks and these you can
detect yourself with a magnifying glass and a lot of patience. There
are dyes you can rub into the stainless to help spot cracks.

That aside I were you I would hire a diesel mechanic to go over the
auxiliary. It is by far the most expensive thing to fix on the boat.
Then check for core rot in the deck. Again you can do this yourself.

Survey question
 

One more VERY important thing. Be absolutely sure your surveyor
checked for any core rot, especially in the deck.
This is big time expensive to fix if you hire the work out. Your deck
may or may not be cored but probably is.

Survey question
 

On 2007-08-12 20:52:09 -0400, cavelamb himself said:

It says "All items aloft (spars, rigging, fittings, hardware, etc)
should be visually inspected for condition by a qualified/experienced
yacht rigger or equivelent".

Is this normal for a professional survey?

As other said, yes.

As far as getting it inspected, if I were in your shoes, I would have
it done. In fact, I did and listened to the guy explain what he was
doing.

BUT I found that learning how to inspect the fittings (the weak link)
made me feel safer. I've not replaced ours, probably a bit older than
yours, except for the forestay (required when we got the furler.) I'm
comfortable with that where and how we sail, but would reconsider if
either changed. I also am a bit of a nut who uses his Loos gauge
several times a season to get an objective measurement of possible
problems. (That caught a bad bulkhead a few years ago.)

Your comfort level, though, is paramount. If you're nervous about the
integrity of the boat, you won't get as much enjoyment.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's new pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI pages: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Survey question
 

"Jeff" wrote in message
.. .
Why don't you just call your surveyor and ask him?

You must realize of course, that if this is a survey the seller gave you
its worth about as much as him saying "My brother-in-law thinks its a real
good boat." There are two types of surveys, a proper survey where the
buyer wants to find every little thing that has gone bad, will go bad, and
might go bad in the boat; and an insurance survey which says that the boat
probably won't sink or blow up in the next 2 years, and isn't concerned
with the all the minor things that are falling off (i.e. not covered by
insurance). The insurance surveyor is often found by the seller's broker
when the buyer realizes he'll need the survey for insurance. He is a
"house surveyor" and wouldn't remain one long if he convinced buyers not
to buy. On top of that, in most places you don't need a license or
certification to call yourself a surveyor.

Before you seriously look at boats you should find a surveyor that you're
comfortable with, and have a discussion about the type of boat you're
looking for, and what he recommends as conditions for the survey. For
instance, if the boat is on the hard, can he do a proper engine survey?
Might he require invasive tests that need the seller's permission?




* cavelamb himself wrote, On 8/12/2007 8:52 PM:
So I'm reading the survey for one of the boats that I'm looking at.
It's a Catalina 36 = 1984 model

Moored in fresh water now, but has been in salt water.

Under Surveyer's Recommendations are a list of items that needed
attention.

It's not a long list but there is one item (C rated) that I'm
kinda concerned about.

It says "All items aloft (spars, rigging, fittings, hardware, etc)
should be visually inspected for condition by a qualified/experienced
yacht rigger or equivelent".

Is this normal for a professional survey?

And, like everything else on the list it it maked off, "done".

But I don't yet know who the equivelent was.

So I'm a little curious here.

Do I need to hire a professional rigger to check the rigging in a
situation like this?

I mean, replacing all the standing rigging on any boat is not a trivial
matter.

Now I don't necessarily have to have new rigging on the boat I buy, but
if it needs to be replaced I need to know up front. And adjust the price
as appropriate...

Richard




--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com



Interesting.. when I bought my boat, I used a surveyor from several previous
buying experiences who I knew would be thorough. He sent his report at my
request directly to the insurance company. They called me and said he missed
a couple of things. (He didn't actually miss them, but did forget to write
them down.) So, he resubmitted and the insurance company was happy.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Survey question
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Jeff" wrote in message
.. .
Why don't you just call your surveyor and ask him?

You must realize of course, that if this is a survey the seller gave you
its worth about as much as him saying "My brother-in-law thinks its a
real good boat." There are two types of surveys, a proper survey where
the buyer wants to find every little thing that has gone bad, will go
bad, and might go bad in the boat; and an insurance survey which says
that the boat probably won't sink or blow up in the next 2 years, and
isn't concerned with the all the minor things that are falling off (i.e.
not covered by insurance). The insurance surveyor is often found by the
seller's broker when the buyer realizes he'll need the survey for
insurance. He is a "house surveyor" and wouldn't remain one long if he
convinced buyers not to buy. On top of that, in most places you don't
need a license or certification to call yourself a surveyor.

Before you seriously look at boats you should find a surveyor that you're
comfortable with, and have a discussion about the type of boat you're
looking for, and what he recommends as conditions for the survey. For
instance, if the boat is on the hard, can he do a proper engine survey?
Might he require invasive tests that need the seller's permission?




* cavelamb himself wrote, On 8/12/2007 8:52 PM:
So I'm reading the survey for one of the boats that I'm looking at.
It's a Catalina 36 = 1984 model

Moored in fresh water now, but has been in salt water.

Under Surveyer's Recommendations are a list of items that needed
attention.

It's not a long list but there is one item (C rated) that I'm
kinda concerned about.

It says "All items aloft (spars, rigging, fittings, hardware, etc)
should be visually inspected for condition by a qualified/experienced
yacht rigger or equivelent".

Is this normal for a professional survey?

And, like everything else on the list it it maked off, "done".

But I don't yet know who the equivelent was.

So I'm a little curious here.

Do I need to hire a professional rigger to check the rigging in a
situation like this?

I mean, replacing all the standing rigging on any boat is not a trivial
matter.

Now I don't necessarily have to have new rigging on the boat I buy, but
if it needs to be replaced I need to know up front. And adjust the price
as appropriate...

Richard




--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com



Interesting.. when I bought my boat, I used a surveyor from several
previous buying experiences who I knew would be thorough. He sent his
report at my request directly to the insurance company. They called me and
said he missed a couple of things. (He didn't actually miss them, but did
forget to write them down.) So, he resubmitted and the insurance company
was happy.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com


If you intent it to find out what is wrong with a boat that you want to
purchase a proper survey is the way to go.
However, this is not a guaranty that nothing is wrong with the boat. A
surveyor is only responsible for what he or she can find with the naked eyes
and today's technology. This is good enough for the insurance companies.
More so when the surveyor tells you that the replacement or market value is
evaluated at so much that what the insurance want you to cover your boat for
the evaluated amount.