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#121
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Fuel transfer/polishing pump
On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 20:36:38 -0500, "Doug Dotson"
wrote: Steve, Thanks for the pics of your system. Any suggestions on TP vs PT filter? I'd say that if you have the room, go for the big one. I didn't have the room for the height of the PT filter so I went with 2 TP filters. For the elements, I use the 1000 sheet Scott rolls. They're tightly wound, dense, and when compressed into the cartridge and soaked in fuel oil make a surprisingly solid mass. It's interesting that when you soak a roll of TP in water, it falls apart but when you soak it in diesel, it becomes a strong solid element. Steve "Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message ... On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 18:01:15 -0500, DSK wrote: Steven Shelikoff wrote: ..The main advantage of the paper depth filters is that they can filter down to very small particle size and they can hold a whole lot of crud, large and small, without clogging up. IOW, perfect for fuel polishing. IMHO the only benefit is that they soak up a lot of water. They probably do trap a lot of particles but also shed them. That hasn't been my experience with them. My experience is that they do not shed significantly (they haven't clogged the 2 micron Racor behind them yet) and that they do trap a lot of particles. I guess they also make good water separaters but I wouldn't know that since I've never had a problem with water in my fuel even before I put on the GCF filters. .... The Racor 2 micron filter that's past the TP filters is now 2 years old and is still clean. That's like bragging about how many times you can use the same condom. You lol, not quite. Otherwise, we'd be changing Racor elements every time we start the engine. Unlike condoms, the Racor elements are safe to keep using until they get dirty. could have spent the same amount of money on filter elements instead of the TP filter system, and have cleaner fuel. That also hasn't been anywhere near my experience. A lot of boats have their primary fuel filter in a difficult location. That's not an excuse to try and stretch the filter, it's a reason to either 1- buy a different boat or 2- remake the system so that you can change the filter element easily & quickly. My Racor is very easy to change. The engine mounted filter a little less easy, but it's still only a 10 minute job. Changing either of them required bleeding the fuel system though. With what I have now, I can change either the GCF filter or the Racor and not get any air into the engine. I can shut off fuel to the engine and bleed the part of the system with those filters with the walbro pump. I can even change the GCF filters and bypass them to keep the engine running if it's necessary. I do have to shut off fuel to the engine to bleed them properly, although filling them with fuel before putting the lid on really helps there so if it was really an emergency, I could probably keep the engine running. BTW if you buy filter elements by the carton, you can carry a lot of them and not pay much. The main problem is that I had to change 2 of the Racor elements when the engine died after operating only 20 minutes each. And with the amount of crud in the tank, that trend was likely to continue for a long time. That's totally unacceptable no matter how cheap you get the elements (they're still expensive even by the case) or how many you carry. The GCF 01-Jr filters before the Racor totally solved the problem and cost me about the same as having the tank cleaned and the fuel in it polished. Now, I have that accomplished and still have the system installed for future use. I know a lot of people here will tell you a lot of bad things about the GCF PT or TP filters. But probably none of those people actually used them to solve a specific problem. I have first hand experience and for me, they're working great. Steve |
#122
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Fuel transfer/polishing pump
Steven Shelikoff wrote: On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 21:17:43 -0500, Glenn Ashmore wrote: I believe that was for OIL not diesel. Not much difference between diesel and oil. Not much other than viscosity, flow rate, condensate content, contaminants filtered, use of the product being filtered and reason for being filtered in the first place. :-) -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
#123
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Fuel transfer/polishing pump
Steven Shelikoff wrote: On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 21:17:43 -0500, Glenn Ashmore wrote: I believe that was for OIL not diesel. Not much difference between diesel and oil. Not much other than viscosity, flow rate, condensate content, contaminants filtered, use of the product being filtered and reason for being filtered in the first place. :-) -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
#124
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Fuel transfer/polishing pump
From all the empirical evidence I have decided to use a Gulf Coast
filter followed by a Raycor with a 2 uM element and a Walbro pump. Anyone have a source for the Gulf Coast filter? I'm tending towards the larger paper towel version unless someone has good reason that the smaller toilet paper version will be sufficient. I'm struggling with using quilted vs perfumed vs little flowers though Doug s/v Callista "Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message ... On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 21:17:43 -0500, Glenn Ashmore wrote: I believe that was for OIL not diesel. Not much difference between diesel and oil. Steve Rufus wrote: About 4 years ago there was a couple guys on the group who managed truck and heavy equipment fleets. They swore by the paper filters (paper towel or TP) and used them on their own personal trucks. You could probably find the threads on google. Rufus -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
#125
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Fuel transfer/polishing pump
From all the empirical evidence I have decided to use a Gulf Coast
filter followed by a Raycor with a 2 uM element and a Walbro pump. Anyone have a source for the Gulf Coast filter? I'm tending towards the larger paper towel version unless someone has good reason that the smaller toilet paper version will be sufficient. I'm struggling with using quilted vs perfumed vs little flowers though Doug s/v Callista "Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message ... On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 21:17:43 -0500, Glenn Ashmore wrote: I believe that was for OIL not diesel. Not much difference between diesel and oil. Steve Rufus wrote: About 4 years ago there was a couple guys on the group who managed truck and heavy equipment fleets. They swore by the paper filters (paper towel or TP) and used them on their own personal trucks. You could probably find the threads on google. Rufus -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
#126
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Fuel transfer/polishing pump
I'm building a whole new unit for all the uptakes and returns. My
tanks are built-in. Integral to the hull. A plate containing everything bolts through the top of the tank. But if I decide to place the return for the polishing system at the opposite end of the tank, I'll have to fashion a second unit at the opposite end. Doug s/v Callista "Len Krauss" wrote in message ... That works. I put the pickup at bottom and return at top thru the filler hole. Some people use the tank return -- they remove hose or have a three-way valve. You might be able to connect a hose to your draincock -- which would simplify things. Len I had thought of a bubbling mechanism to stir the tank while polishing. Also thought if the return from the polishing system was placed at the opposite end of the tank from the uptake it might keep things mixed up a bit. I have a draincock at the lowest of each of my tanks so draining out water and a bit of sediment is pretty easy. Doug "Len Krauss" wrote in message ... Concerns were expressed on this thread about pulling too much flow thru a polishing filter. I polish with a Racor 500 in a stand-alone system. Some time ago I called Racor and found out it's cartridge is rated for 20-25psi. I equipped my polishing system with a vacuum gauge, same as on my engine. Vacuum can then be monitored and regulated in a couple ways. One way is variable speed pump. The other uses a bypass valve, so that not all fuel being pumped goes thru pump. I'll usually keep the filter vacuum around 10 psi to be conservative. When it rises 5psi that's sign the filter is getting clogged. As for stirring up the crud, one guy told me he shoots a jet of air around the bottom of his tanks. Has a small L-shaped copper tube on an air hose, and with it tied to a dowel/rod pushes it to bottom and "aims" it around. He'll them sometimes just let the thing bubble away while polishing to help keep particulate matter in suspension. Before "bubbling" the tank or doing anything else, first pump a quart or two off the bottom into glass jar and check for water. And continue this, discarding the water, until no more is seen. FWIW. Len -- Eliminate "ns" for email address. |
#127
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Fuel transfer/polishing pump
I'm building a whole new unit for all the uptakes and returns. My
tanks are built-in. Integral to the hull. A plate containing everything bolts through the top of the tank. But if I decide to place the return for the polishing system at the opposite end of the tank, I'll have to fashion a second unit at the opposite end. Doug s/v Callista "Len Krauss" wrote in message ... That works. I put the pickup at bottom and return at top thru the filler hole. Some people use the tank return -- they remove hose or have a three-way valve. You might be able to connect a hose to your draincock -- which would simplify things. Len I had thought of a bubbling mechanism to stir the tank while polishing. Also thought if the return from the polishing system was placed at the opposite end of the tank from the uptake it might keep things mixed up a bit. I have a draincock at the lowest of each of my tanks so draining out water and a bit of sediment is pretty easy. Doug "Len Krauss" wrote in message ... Concerns were expressed on this thread about pulling too much flow thru a polishing filter. I polish with a Racor 500 in a stand-alone system. Some time ago I called Racor and found out it's cartridge is rated for 20-25psi. I equipped my polishing system with a vacuum gauge, same as on my engine. Vacuum can then be monitored and regulated in a couple ways. One way is variable speed pump. The other uses a bypass valve, so that not all fuel being pumped goes thru pump. I'll usually keep the filter vacuum around 10 psi to be conservative. When it rises 5psi that's sign the filter is getting clogged. As for stirring up the crud, one guy told me he shoots a jet of air around the bottom of his tanks. Has a small L-shaped copper tube on an air hose, and with it tied to a dowel/rod pushes it to bottom and "aims" it around. He'll them sometimes just let the thing bubble away while polishing to help keep particulate matter in suspension. Before "bubbling" the tank or doing anything else, first pump a quart or two off the bottom into glass jar and check for water. And continue this, discarding the water, until no more is seen. FWIW. Len -- Eliminate "ns" for email address. |
#128
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Fuel transfer/polishing pump
Ah, now I see why you have 2 TP units. I'll have to do some
measuring and see what I can accomodate. Doug "Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message ... On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 20:36:38 -0500, "Doug Dotson" wrote: Steve, Thanks for the pics of your system. Any suggestions on TP vs PT filter? I'd say that if you have the room, go for the big one. I didn't have the room for the height of the PT filter so I went with 2 TP filters. For the elements, I use the 1000 sheet Scott rolls. They're tightly wound, dense, and when compressed into the cartridge and soaked in fuel oil make a surprisingly solid mass. It's interesting that when you soak a roll of TP in water, it falls apart but when you soak it in diesel, it becomes a strong solid element. Steve "Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message ... On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 18:01:15 -0500, DSK wrote: Steven Shelikoff wrote: ..The main advantage of the paper depth filters is that they can filter down to very small particle size and they can hold a whole lot of crud, large and small, without clogging up. IOW, perfect for fuel polishing. IMHO the only benefit is that they soak up a lot of water. They probably do trap a lot of particles but also shed them. That hasn't been my experience with them. My experience is that they do not shed significantly (they haven't clogged the 2 micron Racor behind them yet) and that they do trap a lot of particles. I guess they also make good water separaters but I wouldn't know that since I've never had a problem with water in my fuel even before I put on the GCF filters. .... The Racor 2 micron filter that's past the TP filters is now 2 years old and is still clean. That's like bragging about how many times you can use the same condom. You lol, not quite. Otherwise, we'd be changing Racor elements every time we start the engine. Unlike condoms, the Racor elements are safe to keep using until they get dirty. could have spent the same amount of money on filter elements instead of the TP filter system, and have cleaner fuel. That also hasn't been anywhere near my experience. A lot of boats have their primary fuel filter in a difficult location. That's not an excuse to try and stretch the filter, it's a reason to either 1- buy a different boat or 2- remake the system so that you can change the filter element easily & quickly. My Racor is very easy to change. The engine mounted filter a little less easy, but it's still only a 10 minute job. Changing either of them required bleeding the fuel system though. With what I have now, I can change either the GCF filter or the Racor and not get any air into the engine. I can shut off fuel to the engine and bleed the part of the system with those filters with the walbro pump. I can even change the GCF filters and bypass them to keep the engine running if it's necessary. I do have to shut off fuel to the engine to bleed them properly, although filling them with fuel before putting the lid on really helps there so if it was really an emergency, I could probably keep the engine running. BTW if you buy filter elements by the carton, you can carry a lot of them and not pay much. The main problem is that I had to change 2 of the Racor elements when the engine died after operating only 20 minutes each. And with the amount of crud in the tank, that trend was likely to continue for a long time. That's totally unacceptable no matter how cheap you get the elements (they're still expensive even by the case) or how many you carry. The GCF 01-Jr filters before the Racor totally solved the problem and cost me about the same as having the tank cleaned and the fuel in it polished. Now, I have that accomplished and still have the system installed for future use. I know a lot of people here will tell you a lot of bad things about the GCF PT or TP filters. But probably none of those people actually used them to solve a specific problem. I have first hand experience and for me, they're working great. Steve |
#129
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Fuel transfer/polishing pump
Ah, now I see why you have 2 TP units. I'll have to do some
measuring and see what I can accomodate. Doug "Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message ... On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 20:36:38 -0500, "Doug Dotson" wrote: Steve, Thanks for the pics of your system. Any suggestions on TP vs PT filter? I'd say that if you have the room, go for the big one. I didn't have the room for the height of the PT filter so I went with 2 TP filters. For the elements, I use the 1000 sheet Scott rolls. They're tightly wound, dense, and when compressed into the cartridge and soaked in fuel oil make a surprisingly solid mass. It's interesting that when you soak a roll of TP in water, it falls apart but when you soak it in diesel, it becomes a strong solid element. Steve "Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message ... On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 18:01:15 -0500, DSK wrote: Steven Shelikoff wrote: ..The main advantage of the paper depth filters is that they can filter down to very small particle size and they can hold a whole lot of crud, large and small, without clogging up. IOW, perfect for fuel polishing. IMHO the only benefit is that they soak up a lot of water. They probably do trap a lot of particles but also shed them. That hasn't been my experience with them. My experience is that they do not shed significantly (they haven't clogged the 2 micron Racor behind them yet) and that they do trap a lot of particles. I guess they also make good water separaters but I wouldn't know that since I've never had a problem with water in my fuel even before I put on the GCF filters. .... The Racor 2 micron filter that's past the TP filters is now 2 years old and is still clean. That's like bragging about how many times you can use the same condom. You lol, not quite. Otherwise, we'd be changing Racor elements every time we start the engine. Unlike condoms, the Racor elements are safe to keep using until they get dirty. could have spent the same amount of money on filter elements instead of the TP filter system, and have cleaner fuel. That also hasn't been anywhere near my experience. A lot of boats have their primary fuel filter in a difficult location. That's not an excuse to try and stretch the filter, it's a reason to either 1- buy a different boat or 2- remake the system so that you can change the filter element easily & quickly. My Racor is very easy to change. The engine mounted filter a little less easy, but it's still only a 10 minute job. Changing either of them required bleeding the fuel system though. With what I have now, I can change either the GCF filter or the Racor and not get any air into the engine. I can shut off fuel to the engine and bleed the part of the system with those filters with the walbro pump. I can even change the GCF filters and bypass them to keep the engine running if it's necessary. I do have to shut off fuel to the engine to bleed them properly, although filling them with fuel before putting the lid on really helps there so if it was really an emergency, I could probably keep the engine running. BTW if you buy filter elements by the carton, you can carry a lot of them and not pay much. The main problem is that I had to change 2 of the Racor elements when the engine died after operating only 20 minutes each. And with the amount of crud in the tank, that trend was likely to continue for a long time. That's totally unacceptable no matter how cheap you get the elements (they're still expensive even by the case) or how many you carry. The GCF 01-Jr filters before the Racor totally solved the problem and cost me about the same as having the tank cleaned and the fuel in it polished. Now, I have that accomplished and still have the system installed for future use. I know a lot of people here will tell you a lot of bad things about the GCF PT or TP filters. But probably none of those people actually used them to solve a specific problem. I have first hand experience and for me, they're working great. Steve |
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