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  #21   Report Post  
Old November 26th 03, 05:15 AM
Doug Dotson
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fuel transfer/polishing pump

See below.

"jlp2550" wrote in message
...
This is so true it isn't funny - but these marina sailors don't know
that - so they invent these stupid designs - like the guy with 6 or 8
or 12 fuel tanks in a 50' boat - what total stupidity. Get a life - go
cruising - instead of being "wanna-be" naval architects.

LISTEN UP - all the **** sits on the bottom till the 1st rolly bouncy
storm - then it gets stirred into suspension - and sucked into the
filters and clogs them quickly.


And it all gets sucked into the polishig system at the same time which has
a flow rate many times that of the engine. End result is that the crap load
into the engine system is much less. Also, after bouncing around long enough
to filter that tank, I switch to the other tank and filter that while still
bouncing
around so that next time the fuel is pretty very clean.

BTW, throw away your epirbs and radios so you can't call someone out
into danger to rescue your stupid ass.


Go ahead.




And fuel "polishing" is a joke IMHO.
Unless the fuel in the tank/s is well stirred up all you are doing is

filtering
what is already clean, settled out fuel.

Capt. Bill





  #22   Report Post  
Old November 26th 03, 05:18 AM
Doug Dotson
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fuel transfer/polishing pump


"Steven Dubnoff" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 17:49:20 -0500, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:
I was looking at a Groco or Jabsco pump which seems
good for transfer purposes, but way exceeds the flowrate of the
filter when polishing... What happens when a 5.5 GPM pump
(Jabsco) is pushing fuel through a filter rated at 60 GPH (RACOR 500)?


It won't pump at its rated flow. The simplest thing to do is to put
in the three valves that are necessary to bypass the pump. You can
then bypass the pump for transfer purposes and put it back when you
are running your engine.


My polishing system is totally separate from the engine system.

While you are at it, it would be good to put in an extra Racor and the
necessary plumbing to switch between two while you are underway.


I have 2 Raycors (MAX System) switchable for the engine system. The
polishing system is
totally separate with its own filter and pump.

Steve


----------------------------------------------------------------
Steven Dubnoff
Circle Systems We make your data instantly usable.
Download Stat/Transfer from
http://www.stattransfer.com
1001 Fourth Avenue, #3200 (206) 682-3783
Seattle, WA 98154 Fax (206) 328-4788



  #23   Report Post  
Old November 26th 03, 05:18 AM
Doug Dotson
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fuel transfer/polishing pump


"Steven Dubnoff" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 17:49:20 -0500, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:
I was looking at a Groco or Jabsco pump which seems
good for transfer purposes, but way exceeds the flowrate of the
filter when polishing... What happens when a 5.5 GPM pump
(Jabsco) is pushing fuel through a filter rated at 60 GPH (RACOR 500)?


It won't pump at its rated flow. The simplest thing to do is to put
in the three valves that are necessary to bypass the pump. You can
then bypass the pump for transfer purposes and put it back when you
are running your engine.


My polishing system is totally separate from the engine system.

While you are at it, it would be good to put in an extra Racor and the
necessary plumbing to switch between two while you are underway.


I have 2 Raycors (MAX System) switchable for the engine system. The
polishing system is
totally separate with its own filter and pump.

Steve


----------------------------------------------------------------
Steven Dubnoff
Circle Systems We make your data instantly usable.
Download Stat/Transfer from
http://www.stattransfer.com
1001 Fourth Avenue, #3200 (206) 682-3783
Seattle, WA 98154 Fax (206) 328-4788



  #24   Report Post  
Old November 26th 03, 11:11 AM
Glenn Ashmore
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fuel transfer/polishing pump

Doug,

I have been through this myself. Actually you do have more of a filter
problem than a pump problem. The 500 is just to small for a practical
polishing system. You need a 1000 at a minimum.

The smallest transfer pumps (Reverso) are rated at 180 GPH at zero head
which is the max rating for the 1000. Racor says that when you get
close to the max rating the turbine can scour water out of the bowl but
you have head loss in the piping and the filter itself so the actual
flow will be somewhat below the max rating. It would take four 1000's
to keep up with a Jabsco VR050 and two to handle a Groco SP06.

While the Reverso filters can handle up to 15 PSI, Reverso incourages
upstream installation to avoid the possibilities of pressureized leakage
and slightly better filtering performance.

My system consist of 40 gal port and stbd mains and a 30 gal "day" tank.
The mains have Racor 1000s on their pickup lines and there is no
external fill for the day tank. Any fuel reaching it has to go through
a filter first. I am using the Reverso GP301 3 GPM reversable with four
check valves and two 3-way selector valves.

By changing the direction of the pump rotation I can pull from either
main tank and with one 3-way selector can route the output to any of the
three tanks. The second 3-way allows me to bypass the day tank and pull
from either of the mains should the Reverso crap out. With this
arangement I can fill the day tank with freshly filtered fuel, polish a
single tank or move fuel to the windward tank for trim. Whenever fuel
moves it gets filtered.



Doug Dotson wrote:
I am designing a fuel polishing and transfer system. My thought
is to use valves to route fuel from any tank to any tank. No
problem with that part. I want to be able to just transfer fuel
or switch in a filter to polish the fuel while transferring. Since
I can select the same tank for source and destination, I can
polish fuel in place as well. The problem comes with the selection
of a pump. I was looking at a Groco or Jabsco pump which seems
good for transfer purposes, but way exceeds the flowrate of the
filter when polishing. A Walbro fuel pump (which I have as a priming
pump now) seems like a good fit for polishing (33 GPH) but will be slow
when just transferring fuel. What happens when a 5.5 GPM pump
(Jabsco) is pushing fuel through a filter rated at 60 GPH (RACOR 500)?

Thanks!
Doug
s/v Callista




--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

  #25   Report Post  
Old November 26th 03, 11:11 AM
Glenn Ashmore
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fuel transfer/polishing pump

Doug,

I have been through this myself. Actually you do have more of a filter
problem than a pump problem. The 500 is just to small for a practical
polishing system. You need a 1000 at a minimum.

The smallest transfer pumps (Reverso) are rated at 180 GPH at zero head
which is the max rating for the 1000. Racor says that when you get
close to the max rating the turbine can scour water out of the bowl but
you have head loss in the piping and the filter itself so the actual
flow will be somewhat below the max rating. It would take four 1000's
to keep up with a Jabsco VR050 and two to handle a Groco SP06.

While the Reverso filters can handle up to 15 PSI, Reverso incourages
upstream installation to avoid the possibilities of pressureized leakage
and slightly better filtering performance.

My system consist of 40 gal port and stbd mains and a 30 gal "day" tank.
The mains have Racor 1000s on their pickup lines and there is no
external fill for the day tank. Any fuel reaching it has to go through
a filter first. I am using the Reverso GP301 3 GPM reversable with four
check valves and two 3-way selector valves.

By changing the direction of the pump rotation I can pull from either
main tank and with one 3-way selector can route the output to any of the
three tanks. The second 3-way allows me to bypass the day tank and pull
from either of the mains should the Reverso crap out. With this
arangement I can fill the day tank with freshly filtered fuel, polish a
single tank or move fuel to the windward tank for trim. Whenever fuel
moves it gets filtered.



Doug Dotson wrote:
I am designing a fuel polishing and transfer system. My thought
is to use valves to route fuel from any tank to any tank. No
problem with that part. I want to be able to just transfer fuel
or switch in a filter to polish the fuel while transferring. Since
I can select the same tank for source and destination, I can
polish fuel in place as well. The problem comes with the selection
of a pump. I was looking at a Groco or Jabsco pump which seems
good for transfer purposes, but way exceeds the flowrate of the
filter when polishing. A Walbro fuel pump (which I have as a priming
pump now) seems like a good fit for polishing (33 GPH) but will be slow
when just transferring fuel. What happens when a 5.5 GPM pump
(Jabsco) is pushing fuel through a filter rated at 60 GPH (RACOR 500)?

Thanks!
Doug
s/v Callista




--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com



  #26   Report Post  
Old November 26th 03, 11:34 AM
Keith
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fuel transfer/polishing pump

See http://www.trawlerworld.com/features_06.htm for a good polishing system
based on the Gulf Coast F-1 filter and Walbro pump. I installed one like
this on my Krogen and love it.

"Rufus" wrote in message
news:[email protected]_s52...
goggle "fuel polishing lv-ab" for starters

Doug Dotson wrote:

I am designing a fuel polishing and transfer system. My thought
is to use valves to route fuel from any tank to any tank. No
problem with that part. I want to be able to just transfer fuel
or switch in a filter to polish the fuel while transferring. Since
I can select the same tank for source and destination, I can
polish fuel in place as well. The problem comes with the selection
of a pump. I was looking at a Groco or Jabsco pump which seems
good for transfer purposes, but way exceeds the flowrate of the
filter when polishing. A Walbro fuel pump (which I have as a priming
pump now) seems like a good fit for polishing (33 GPH) but will be slow
when just transferring fuel. What happens when a 5.5 GPM pump
(Jabsco) is pushing fuel through a filter rated at 60 GPH (RACOR 500)?

Thanks!
Doug
s/v Callista






  #27   Report Post  
Old November 26th 03, 11:34 AM
Keith
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fuel transfer/polishing pump

See http://www.trawlerworld.com/features_06.htm for a good polishing system
based on the Gulf Coast F-1 filter and Walbro pump. I installed one like
this on my Krogen and love it.

"Rufus" wrote in message
news:[email protected]_s52...
goggle "fuel polishing lv-ab" for starters

Doug Dotson wrote:

I am designing a fuel polishing and transfer system. My thought
is to use valves to route fuel from any tank to any tank. No
problem with that part. I want to be able to just transfer fuel
or switch in a filter to polish the fuel while transferring. Since
I can select the same tank for source and destination, I can
polish fuel in place as well. The problem comes with the selection
of a pump. I was looking at a Groco or Jabsco pump which seems
good for transfer purposes, but way exceeds the flowrate of the
filter when polishing. A Walbro fuel pump (which I have as a priming
pump now) seems like a good fit for polishing (33 GPH) but will be slow
when just transferring fuel. What happens when a 5.5 GPM pump
(Jabsco) is pushing fuel through a filter rated at 60 GPH (RACOR 500)?

Thanks!
Doug
s/v Callista






  #28   Report Post  
Old November 26th 03, 11:37 AM
Keith
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fuel transfer/polishing pump

You need to look at depth filtration for polishing vs. surface filtration
like the Racors. They will clog up very fast if you have dirty fuel. See the
link I posted earlier, and take a look at depth filters like the GCF F-1 or
Jr.

"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
I don't have a filter problem, I have a pump question.

Doug

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Doug Dotson" writes:
I am designing a fuel polishing and transfer system. My thought
is to use valves to route fuel from any tank to any tank. No
problem with that part. I want to be able to just transfer fuel
or switch in a filter to polish the fuel while transferring. Since
I can select the same tank for source and destination, I can
polish fuel in place as well. The problem comes with the selection
of a pump. I was looking at a Groco or Jabsco pump which seems
good for transfer purposes, but way exceeds the flowrate of the
filter when polishing. A Walbro fuel pump (which I have as a priming
pump now) seems like a good fit for polishing (33 GPH) but will be

slow
when just transferring fuel. What happens when a 5.5 GPM pump
(Jabsco) is pushing fuel through a filter rated at 60 GPH (RACOR 500)?


Have built the system above which BTW, uses a lot of 1/2" bronze ball
valves.

You solve the filter problem in a straight forward fashion.

Multiple filters (Larger than 500) in parallel to reach at least 60 GPH.

I'd built in a safety margin and shoot for at least 75 GPH.

HTH


--
Lew

S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the

Southland)
Visit: http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett for Pictures






  #29   Report Post  
Old November 26th 03, 11:37 AM
Keith
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fuel transfer/polishing pump

You need to look at depth filtration for polishing vs. surface filtration
like the Racors. They will clog up very fast if you have dirty fuel. See the
link I posted earlier, and take a look at depth filters like the GCF F-1 or
Jr.

"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
I don't have a filter problem, I have a pump question.

Doug

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Doug Dotson" writes:
I am designing a fuel polishing and transfer system. My thought
is to use valves to route fuel from any tank to any tank. No
problem with that part. I want to be able to just transfer fuel
or switch in a filter to polish the fuel while transferring. Since
I can select the same tank for source and destination, I can
polish fuel in place as well. The problem comes with the selection
of a pump. I was looking at a Groco or Jabsco pump which seems
good for transfer purposes, but way exceeds the flowrate of the
filter when polishing. A Walbro fuel pump (which I have as a priming
pump now) seems like a good fit for polishing (33 GPH) but will be

slow
when just transferring fuel. What happens when a 5.5 GPM pump
(Jabsco) is pushing fuel through a filter rated at 60 GPH (RACOR 500)?


Have built the system above which BTW, uses a lot of 1/2" bronze ball
valves.

You solve the filter problem in a straight forward fashion.

Multiple filters (Larger than 500) in parallel to reach at least 60 GPH.

I'd built in a safety margin and shoot for at least 75 GPH.

HTH


--
Lew

S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the

Southland)
Visit: http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett for Pictures






  #30   Report Post  
Old November 26th 03, 11:39 AM
Keith
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fuel transfer/polishing pump

Ever think about running a polishing system while underway, or right after
you come back from a "rolly bouncy" trip? Opinions are just like assholes...
everybody's got one.

"jlp2550" wrote in message
...
This is so true it isn't funny - but these marina sailors don't know
that - so they invent these stupid designs - like the guy with 6 or 8
or 12 fuel tanks in a 50' boat - what total stupidity. Get a life - go
cruising - instead of being "wanna-be" naval architects.

LISTEN UP - all the **** sits on the bottom till the 1st rolly bouncy
storm - then it gets stirred into suspension - and sucked into the
filters and clogs them quickly.

BTW, throw away your epirbs and radios so you can't call someone out
into danger to rescue your stupid ass.




And fuel "polishing" is a joke IMHO.
Unless the fuel in the tank/s is well stirred up all you are doing is

filtering
what is already clean, settled out fuel.

Capt. Bill






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