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  #401   Report Post  
Old December 8th 03, 02:40 AM
Keith
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fuel transfer/polishing pump

Be sure to use the kind that stays flexible, not the kind that sets up hard.

"doug dotson" wrote in message
...
Good idea, I'll check it out.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Garland Gray II" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
Doug,
I have used Permatex as a gasket replacement on a gasoline tank. Should

work
w/ diesel as well.
Garland

"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
I won't be able to tell for sure until I open one up. Just looking
at them from the outside it appears they are bedded in something
black. The outside surface of the tanks are not smooth. If the
inside is not smooth as well that would explain why they were
bedded rather than gasketted. I think what I may do is have
some inspection ports fabricated that can be opened more
easily.

Doug
s/v Callista

"LaBomba182" wrote in message
...
Subject: Fuel transfer/polishing pump
From: "Doug Dotson"

Have any idea what
might
have been used to bed the inspection ports?

The ones I have dealt with have had gaskets on them. If yours don't

I
would
look into making some and/or using a fuel resistant sealant.
http://www.watkins-associates.com/index.html
Capt. Bill









  #402   Report Post  
Old December 8th 03, 02:27 PM
LaBomba182
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fuel transfer/polishing pump

Subject: Fuel transfer/polishing pump
From: "Len Krauss"


Second step is to, while polishing, agitate fuel at bottom of tank using a
small L-shaped air discharge pushed down to tank bottom on a rod or dowel
and turned about as much as possible. Obviously the fuel furthest away from
the discharge will get the least agitation and baffles will reduce degree of
agitation for sure. But with the L-shaped discharge at the bottom and
turned, disturbance will flow through baffle bottom notches. The basic idea
is to get crud in suspension and moving so it can be captured by the
polishing pick up and filtered out.


If you're going to bother to do this I would spray clean fuel out of the nozzle
at high pressure not air. That might get the bottoms of a couple of the
adjacent baffles stirred up a bit.
Some companies use a soft tube on the end of the wand that flops around as the
fuel comes out to further aid in the agitation. Or so they claim.
And you can get a longer soft tube into the tank through the fill than you can
an "L" bend.


Capt. Bill
  #403   Report Post  
Old December 8th 03, 02:27 PM
LaBomba182
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fuel transfer/polishing pump

Subject: Fuel transfer/polishing pump
From: "Len Krauss"


Second step is to, while polishing, agitate fuel at bottom of tank using a
small L-shaped air discharge pushed down to tank bottom on a rod or dowel
and turned about as much as possible. Obviously the fuel furthest away from
the discharge will get the least agitation and baffles will reduce degree of
agitation for sure. But with the L-shaped discharge at the bottom and
turned, disturbance will flow through baffle bottom notches. The basic idea
is to get crud in suspension and moving so it can be captured by the
polishing pick up and filtered out.


If you're going to bother to do this I would spray clean fuel out of the nozzle
at high pressure not air. That might get the bottoms of a couple of the
adjacent baffles stirred up a bit.
Some companies use a soft tube on the end of the wand that flops around as the
fuel comes out to further aid in the agitation. Or so they claim.
And you can get a longer soft tube into the tank through the fill than you can
an "L" bend.


Capt. Bill
  #404   Report Post  
Old December 10th 03, 04:04 AM
Len Krauss
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fuel transfer/polishing pump

Agree with comments that it's better to agitate with fuel rather than air.
Getting effective action would seem to call for an additional pump (high
volume) and separate pick-up and return line. Many boat owners won't want to
add this expense and complication to their polishing systems. On the other
hand, a small air compressor or inflator is more apt to be available.

As the return line usually enters at the tank bottom, just circulating fuel
at a high rate before starting polishing and periodically will help. A high
output pump with filter bypass valving can be used for dual purposes -- a
small volume of fuel goes through filter (with check valve on output),
while most bypasses it and enters the return inlet with force.

Another polishing approach is draw fuel from a bottom return line and return
it tank via fill fitting. The theory here is that most of the bad stuff is
near the bottom
--
Eliminate "ns" for email address.
"Rich Hampel" wrote in message
...
In article , Len Krauss
wrote:


Second step is to, while polishing, agitate fuel at bottom of tank using

a
small L-shaped air discharge pushed down to tank bottom on a rod or

dowel
and turned about as much as possible. Obviously the fuel furthest away

from
the discharge will get the least agitation and baffles will reduce

degree of
agitation for sure. But with the L-shaped discharge at the bottom and
turned, disturbance will flow through baffle bottom notches. The basic

idea
is to get crud in suspension and moving so it can be captured by the
polishing pick up and filtered out.


You are correct!!!! but dont use air.

Tank farms use whats known as a *sparging nozzle* to keep the tank in
constant agitation. Its simply a jet of liquid that discharges into a
throat of a venturi section. The velocity from the jet into the
venturi 'entrains' the liquid in the bottom of tank to circulate. A
sparger moves the layers on the bottom of the tank towards the top;
hence, affects a mixing.
(for techies amoung us, a sparging nozzle {sparger} in an 'open inlet
eductor')

If you use air, you generate a lot of air entrainment which can settle
out and coalesce into larger and larger bubbles of air .... and block
the downstream system.



  #405   Report Post  
Old December 10th 03, 04:04 AM
Len Krauss
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fuel transfer/polishing pump

Agree with comments that it's better to agitate with fuel rather than air.
Getting effective action would seem to call for an additional pump (high
volume) and separate pick-up and return line. Many boat owners won't want to
add this expense and complication to their polishing systems. On the other
hand, a small air compressor or inflator is more apt to be available.

As the return line usually enters at the tank bottom, just circulating fuel
at a high rate before starting polishing and periodically will help. A high
output pump with filter bypass valving can be used for dual purposes -- a
small volume of fuel goes through filter (with check valve on output),
while most bypasses it and enters the return inlet with force.

Another polishing approach is draw fuel from a bottom return line and return
it tank via fill fitting. The theory here is that most of the bad stuff is
near the bottom
--
Eliminate "ns" for email address.
"Rich Hampel" wrote in message
...
In article , Len Krauss
wrote:


Second step is to, while polishing, agitate fuel at bottom of tank using

a
small L-shaped air discharge pushed down to tank bottom on a rod or

dowel
and turned about as much as possible. Obviously the fuel furthest away

from
the discharge will get the least agitation and baffles will reduce

degree of
agitation for sure. But with the L-shaped discharge at the bottom and
turned, disturbance will flow through baffle bottom notches. The basic

idea
is to get crud in suspension and moving so it can be captured by the
polishing pick up and filtered out.


You are correct!!!! but dont use air.

Tank farms use whats known as a *sparging nozzle* to keep the tank in
constant agitation. Its simply a jet of liquid that discharges into a
throat of a venturi section. The velocity from the jet into the
venturi 'entrains' the liquid in the bottom of tank to circulate. A
sparger moves the layers on the bottom of the tank towards the top;
hence, affects a mixing.
(for techies amoung us, a sparging nozzle {sparger} in an 'open inlet
eductor')

If you use air, you generate a lot of air entrainment which can settle
out and coalesce into larger and larger bubbles of air .... and block
the downstream system.





  #406   Report Post  
Old December 10th 03, 08:47 PM
doug dotson
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fuel transfer/polishing pump

Some comments below.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Len Krauss" wrote in message
...
Agree with comments that it's better to agitate with fuel rather than air.
Getting effective action would seem to call for an additional pump (high
volume) and separate pick-up and return line. Many boat owners won't want

to
add this expense and complication to their polishing systems. On the other
hand, a small air compressor or inflator is more apt to be available.


A separate polishing systems is what I am intending to do. I actually think
it is simpler than an integrated approach with the exception of an addition
uptake and return.

As the return line usually enters at the tank bottom, just circulating

fuel
at a high rate before starting polishing and periodically will help. A

high
output pump with filter bypass valving can be used for dual purposes -- a
small volume of fuel goes through filter (with check valve on output),
while most bypasses it and enters the return inlet with force.


I this really true about returns usually entering the bottom. No boat I have
ever had it set up that way. From what a surveyor told me any access other
that via the top is against code as it makes possible catastrophic loss of
fuel into the bilge.

Another polishing approach is draw fuel from a bottom return line and

return
it tank via fill fitting. The theory here is that most of the bad stuff is
near the bottom
--


All the polish systems I have seen draw fuel from the bottom for that exact
reason.
Return has always been through the top. Perhaps a return line laying in the
bottom of
the tank with lots of holes (like a soaker hose). Trick would be to get it
into the tank.


Eliminate "ns" for email address.
"Rich Hampel" wrote in message
...
In article , Len Krauss
wrote:


Second step is to, while polishing, agitate fuel at bottom of tank

using
a
small L-shaped air discharge pushed down to tank bottom on a rod or

dowel
and turned about as much as possible. Obviously the fuel furthest away

from
the discharge will get the least agitation and baffles will reduce

degree of
agitation for sure. But with the L-shaped discharge at the bottom and
turned, disturbance will flow through baffle bottom notches. The basic

idea
is to get crud in suspension and moving so it can be captured by the
polishing pick up and filtered out.


You are correct!!!! but dont use air.

Tank farms use whats known as a *sparging nozzle* to keep the tank in
constant agitation. Its simply a jet of liquid that discharges into a
throat of a venturi section. The velocity from the jet into the
venturi 'entrains' the liquid in the bottom of tank to circulate. A
sparger moves the layers on the bottom of the tank towards the top;
hence, affects a mixing.
(for techies amoung us, a sparging nozzle {sparger} in an 'open inlet
eductor')

If you use air, you generate a lot of air entrainment which can settle
out and coalesce into larger and larger bubbles of air .... and block
the downstream system.





  #407   Report Post  
Old December 10th 03, 08:47 PM
doug dotson
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fuel transfer/polishing pump

Some comments below.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Len Krauss" wrote in message
...
Agree with comments that it's better to agitate with fuel rather than air.
Getting effective action would seem to call for an additional pump (high
volume) and separate pick-up and return line. Many boat owners won't want

to
add this expense and complication to their polishing systems. On the other
hand, a small air compressor or inflator is more apt to be available.


A separate polishing systems is what I am intending to do. I actually think
it is simpler than an integrated approach with the exception of an addition
uptake and return.

As the return line usually enters at the tank bottom, just circulating

fuel
at a high rate before starting polishing and periodically will help. A

high
output pump with filter bypass valving can be used for dual purposes -- a
small volume of fuel goes through filter (with check valve on output),
while most bypasses it and enters the return inlet with force.


I this really true about returns usually entering the bottom. No boat I have
ever had it set up that way. From what a surveyor told me any access other
that via the top is against code as it makes possible catastrophic loss of
fuel into the bilge.

Another polishing approach is draw fuel from a bottom return line and

return
it tank via fill fitting. The theory here is that most of the bad stuff is
near the bottom
--


All the polish systems I have seen draw fuel from the bottom for that exact
reason.
Return has always been through the top. Perhaps a return line laying in the
bottom of
the tank with lots of holes (like a soaker hose). Trick would be to get it
into the tank.


Eliminate "ns" for email address.
"Rich Hampel" wrote in message
...
In article , Len Krauss
wrote:


Second step is to, while polishing, agitate fuel at bottom of tank

using
a
small L-shaped air discharge pushed down to tank bottom on a rod or

dowel
and turned about as much as possible. Obviously the fuel furthest away

from
the discharge will get the least agitation and baffles will reduce

degree of
agitation for sure. But with the L-shaped discharge at the bottom and
turned, disturbance will flow through baffle bottom notches. The basic

idea
is to get crud in suspension and moving so it can be captured by the
polishing pick up and filtered out.


You are correct!!!! but dont use air.

Tank farms use whats known as a *sparging nozzle* to keep the tank in
constant agitation. Its simply a jet of liquid that discharges into a
throat of a venturi section. The velocity from the jet into the
venturi 'entrains' the liquid in the bottom of tank to circulate. A
sparger moves the layers on the bottom of the tank towards the top;
hence, affects a mixing.
(for techies amoung us, a sparging nozzle {sparger} in an 'open inlet
eductor')

If you use air, you generate a lot of air entrainment which can settle
out and coalesce into larger and larger bubbles of air .... and block
the downstream system.





  #408   Report Post  
Old February 2nd 04, 11:58 PM
Doug Dotson
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fuel transfer/polishing pump

I think I accidently posted this on the electronics group.
I have finally finsihed my polishing system. If anyone is interested
in the outcome, send me a personal email and I'll send a
digipic. Address is something like:


Doug
s/v Callista

"doug dotson" wrote in message
...
Some comments below.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Len Krauss" wrote in message
...
Agree with comments that it's better to agitate with fuel rather than

air.
Getting effective action would seem to call for an additional pump (high
volume) and separate pick-up and return line. Many boat owners won't

want
to
add this expense and complication to their polishing systems. On the

other
hand, a small air compressor or inflator is more apt to be available.


A separate polishing systems is what I am intending to do. I actually

think
it is simpler than an integrated approach with the exception of an

addition
uptake and return.

As the return line usually enters at the tank bottom, just circulating

fuel
at a high rate before starting polishing and periodically will help. A

high
output pump with filter bypass valving can be used for dual purposes --

a
small volume of fuel goes through filter (with check valve on output),
while most bypasses it and enters the return inlet with force.


I this really true about returns usually entering the bottom. No boat I

have
ever had it set up that way. From what a surveyor told me any access other
that via the top is against code as it makes possible catastrophic loss of
fuel into the bilge.

Another polishing approach is draw fuel from a bottom return line and

return
it tank via fill fitting. The theory here is that most of the bad stuff

is
near the bottom
--


All the polish systems I have seen draw fuel from the bottom for that

exact
reason.
Return has always been through the top. Perhaps a return line laying in

the
bottom of
the tank with lots of holes (like a soaker hose). Trick would be to get it
into the tank.


Eliminate "ns" for email address.
"Rich Hampel" wrote in message
...
In article , Len Krauss
wrote:


Second step is to, while polishing, agitate fuel at bottom of tank

using
a
small L-shaped air discharge pushed down to tank bottom on a rod or

dowel
and turned about as much as possible. Obviously the fuel furthest

away
from
the discharge will get the least agitation and baffles will reduce

degree of
agitation for sure. But with the L-shaped discharge at the bottom

and
turned, disturbance will flow through baffle bottom notches. The

basic
idea
is to get crud in suspension and moving so it can be captured by the
polishing pick up and filtered out.


You are correct!!!! but dont use air.

Tank farms use whats known as a *sparging nozzle* to keep the tank in
constant agitation. Its simply a jet of liquid that discharges into

a
throat of a venturi section. The velocity from the jet into the
venturi 'entrains' the liquid in the bottom of tank to circulate. A
sparger moves the layers on the bottom of the tank towards the top;
hence, affects a mixing.
(for techies amoung us, a sparging nozzle {sparger} in an 'open inlet
eductor')

If you use air, you generate a lot of air entrainment which can settle
out and coalesce into larger and larger bubbles of air .... and block
the downstream system.







  #409   Report Post  
Old February 2nd 04, 11:58 PM
Doug Dotson
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fuel transfer/polishing pump

I think I accidently posted this on the electronics group.
I have finally finsihed my polishing system. If anyone is interested
in the outcome, send me a personal email and I'll send a
digipic. Address is something like:


Doug
s/v Callista

"doug dotson" wrote in message
...
Some comments below.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Len Krauss" wrote in message
...
Agree with comments that it's better to agitate with fuel rather than

air.
Getting effective action would seem to call for an additional pump (high
volume) and separate pick-up and return line. Many boat owners won't

want
to
add this expense and complication to their polishing systems. On the

other
hand, a small air compressor or inflator is more apt to be available.


A separate polishing systems is what I am intending to do. I actually

think
it is simpler than an integrated approach with the exception of an

addition
uptake and return.

As the return line usually enters at the tank bottom, just circulating

fuel
at a high rate before starting polishing and periodically will help. A

high
output pump with filter bypass valving can be used for dual purposes --

a
small volume of fuel goes through filter (with check valve on output),
while most bypasses it and enters the return inlet with force.


I this really true about returns usually entering the bottom. No boat I

have
ever had it set up that way. From what a surveyor told me any access other
that via the top is against code as it makes possible catastrophic loss of
fuel into the bilge.

Another polishing approach is draw fuel from a bottom return line and

return
it tank via fill fitting. The theory here is that most of the bad stuff

is
near the bottom
--


All the polish systems I have seen draw fuel from the bottom for that

exact
reason.
Return has always been through the top. Perhaps a return line laying in

the
bottom of
the tank with lots of holes (like a soaker hose). Trick would be to get it
into the tank.


Eliminate "ns" for email address.
"Rich Hampel" wrote in message
...
In article , Len Krauss
wrote:


Second step is to, while polishing, agitate fuel at bottom of tank

using
a
small L-shaped air discharge pushed down to tank bottom on a rod or

dowel
and turned about as much as possible. Obviously the fuel furthest

away
from
the discharge will get the least agitation and baffles will reduce

degree of
agitation for sure. But with the L-shaped discharge at the bottom

and
turned, disturbance will flow through baffle bottom notches. The

basic
idea
is to get crud in suspension and moving so it can be captured by the
polishing pick up and filtered out.


You are correct!!!! but dont use air.

Tank farms use whats known as a *sparging nozzle* to keep the tank in
constant agitation. Its simply a jet of liquid that discharges into

a
throat of a venturi section. The velocity from the jet into the
venturi 'entrains' the liquid in the bottom of tank to circulate. A
sparger moves the layers on the bottom of the tank towards the top;
hence, affects a mixing.
(for techies amoung us, a sparging nozzle {sparger} in an 'open inlet
eductor')

If you use air, you generate a lot of air entrainment which can settle
out and coalesce into larger and larger bubbles of air .... and block
the downstream system.









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