Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
#301
|
|||
|
|||
Fuel transfer/polishing pump
Steve,
Just a quick reply since I'm about ready to hit the sack. I think you are saying that the polishing system should be something that can be switched inline on the way to the engine. That amounts to just more pre-engine filtering. What I want is a system that can recirculate fuel independent of the engine system. From what I gather, recirculating fuel through a filtering system will result in clean fuel so that the engine system will not be stressed (lift pump). Also, much crud is built up while just sitting in the slip or on the hard over the winter. Better to clean it up prior to offering it up to the engine than hitting the engine filters all at once. Your ACSII schematic came across totally skewed. That is a problem with proportional fonts and TABs Doug s/v Callista "Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message ... On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 21:10:23 -0500, "Doug Dotson" wrote: Steve, I understood that you were suggesting that I leave the polishing system running while running the engine. Since I have 2 tanks it seems to me to require two polishing systems to keep polishing while running. The system I have designed allows me to polish either of the two tanks at any time and run the engine out of either tank at any time as well. So I can polish the same one I am running out of if I wish. I guess the choice of which to polish while running is up for grabs. I think I'd route it so that I can route either tank to the polishing system then 'T' the polishing system to the engine and the return to either tank. Just make sure you're returning to the same tank you're drawing from. A simplified version (without bypass plumbing which is a pain to draw) looks something like this: (view with fixed point font like courier) -------------- /--------------------------T---------| | Y select / return to tanks | | ---------- | --------------- | | | |(to tank 2) | check valve | | | Tank 1 | --------------- | | |---------- ------------- | | ---------- | | Polishing | -------- | ---------- |from | filters | | | | \ | | Y select /----| with |-| Pump |-T- \-| Engine | ---------- /tanks| bypassing | | | | | | | | ------------- -------- ---------- | Tank 2 | | | |---------- ---------- out If the above ascii drawing looks horrible, sorry. But basically, the supply from both tanks goes to a Y valve which feeds either to the polishing filters. That's where you'd put the bypass valves so you can go around any filter (GCF or Racor). Then to a T where one side goes to a shutoff valve then to the engine. The shutoff valve is so that you can turn off fuel to the engine while you're priming the system after changing filters so air won't get in the engine. You can also plumb it so that the engine can draw from the tanka bypassing the filters so you can prime them and run the engine at the same time if that's a requirement. I didn't care about that since I don't run the engine all that much (sailboat.) Also not shown is that you want to install vacuum gauges, one before the GCF filter, one between the GCF and the Racor and one after the Racor before the Walbro pump. Any difference more than a few psi across a filter means it's time for an element change. The other side of the T goes to a check valve. That's there so that if the electric pump fails the engine won't suck air from the return lines. Then there's a T where the engine return and the polishing system return join and go to another Y valve to select where to return the fuel to. Just make sure both Y valves are in the same position. You can also use this as a fuel transfering pump if you want to, by putting the Y valves in different positions. But be careful you don't overflow the tank being filled. Steve |
#302
|
|||
|
|||
Fuel transfer/polishing pump
On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 23:44:05 -0500, "Doug Dotson" wrote:
Steve, Just a quick reply since I'm about ready to hit the sack. I think you are saying that the polishing system should be something that can be switched inline on the way to the engine. That amounts to just more pre-engine filtering. What I want is a system that can recirculate fuel independent of the engine system. From what I gather, recirculating fuel through a filtering system will result in clean fuel so that the engine system will not be stressed (lift pump). Also, much crud is built up while just sitting in the slip or on the hard over the winter. Better to clean it up prior to offering it up to the engine than hitting the engine filters all at once. With the system I described below, what you can do is, while the engine is not running (there are long periods when it's off, right?) shut off the valve to the engine intake. Then you have your system that can recirculate fuel through the filtering system and clean the fuel in the tank without it going to the engine. Leave the pump on for a few days or until the filters clog, whichever comes first, before opening the valve to the engine. Then open the engine valve to run it and it'll get the freshest filtered fuel possible because it's drawing it right from the polishing system. Of course, the disadvantage of doing it this way is that if you don't install polishing system bypass valves, you have to run the walbro pump whenever you're running the engine. I've found that to be not all that much of a disadvantage and the advantage is that fuel is being polished whenever the engine is running. You can always wire it into the ignition switch with a double solenoid relay so that the pump can be controlled via the ignition switch or another switch with a 12 hour timer so you can set it and leave the boat and it'll turn off on it's own after running for 12 hours. There sre so many different ways you can plumb the thing. The more flexability you want, the more valves and piping you need. The disadvantage to making it too flexable is that it becomes too complex and prone to operator error as well as developing a vacuum leak somewhere. Your ACSII schematic came across totally skewed. That is a problem with proportional fonts and TABs I know. I didn't use tabs though, just spaces. So if you cut'n'paste the schematic into a word processor and choose a fixed width font it'll look fine. Steve "Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message ... On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 21:10:23 -0500, "Doug Dotson" wrote: Steve, I understood that you were suggesting that I leave the polishing system running while running the engine. Since I have 2 tanks it seems to me to require two polishing systems to keep polishing while running. The system I have designed allows me to polish either of the two tanks at any time and run the engine out of either tank at any time as well. So I can polish the same one I am running out of if I wish. I guess the choice of which to polish while running is up for grabs. I think I'd route it so that I can route either tank to the polishing system then 'T' the polishing system to the engine and the return to either tank. Just make sure you're returning to the same tank you're drawing from. A simplified version (without bypass plumbing which is a pain to draw) looks something like this: (view with fixed point font like courier) -------------- /--------------------------T---------| | Y select / return to tanks | | ---------- | --------------- | | | |(to tank 2) | check valve | | | Tank 1 | --------------- | | |---------- ------------- | | ---------- | | Polishing | -------- | ---------- |from | filters | | | | \ | | Y select /----| with |-| Pump |-T- \-| Engine | ---------- /tanks| bypassing | | | | | | | | ------------- -------- ---------- | Tank 2 | | | |---------- ---------- out If the above ascii drawing looks horrible, sorry. But basically, the supply from both tanks goes to a Y valve which feeds either to the polishing filters. That's where you'd put the bypass valves so you can go around any filter (GCF or Racor). Then to a T where one side goes to a shutoff valve then to the engine. The shutoff valve is so that you can turn off fuel to the engine while you're priming the system after changing filters so air won't get in the engine. You can also plumb it so that the engine can draw from the tanka bypassing the filters so you can prime them and run the engine at the same time if that's a requirement. I didn't care about that since I don't run the engine all that much (sailboat.) Also not shown is that you want to install vacuum gauges, one before the GCF filter, one between the GCF and the Racor and one after the Racor before the Walbro pump. Any difference more than a few psi across a filter means it's time for an element change. The other side of the T goes to a check valve. That's there so that if the electric pump fails the engine won't suck air from the return lines. Then there's a T where the engine return and the polishing system return join and go to another Y valve to select where to return the fuel to. Just make sure both Y valves are in the same position. You can also use this as a fuel transfering pump if you want to, by putting the Y valves in different positions. But be careful you don't overflow the tank being filled. Steve |
#303
|
|||
|
|||
Fuel transfer/polishing pump
On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 23:44:05 -0500, "Doug Dotson" wrote:
Steve, Just a quick reply since I'm about ready to hit the sack. I think you are saying that the polishing system should be something that can be switched inline on the way to the engine. That amounts to just more pre-engine filtering. What I want is a system that can recirculate fuel independent of the engine system. From what I gather, recirculating fuel through a filtering system will result in clean fuel so that the engine system will not be stressed (lift pump). Also, much crud is built up while just sitting in the slip or on the hard over the winter. Better to clean it up prior to offering it up to the engine than hitting the engine filters all at once. With the system I described below, what you can do is, while the engine is not running (there are long periods when it's off, right?) shut off the valve to the engine intake. Then you have your system that can recirculate fuel through the filtering system and clean the fuel in the tank without it going to the engine. Leave the pump on for a few days or until the filters clog, whichever comes first, before opening the valve to the engine. Then open the engine valve to run it and it'll get the freshest filtered fuel possible because it's drawing it right from the polishing system. Of course, the disadvantage of doing it this way is that if you don't install polishing system bypass valves, you have to run the walbro pump whenever you're running the engine. I've found that to be not all that much of a disadvantage and the advantage is that fuel is being polished whenever the engine is running. You can always wire it into the ignition switch with a double solenoid relay so that the pump can be controlled via the ignition switch or another switch with a 12 hour timer so you can set it and leave the boat and it'll turn off on it's own after running for 12 hours. There sre so many different ways you can plumb the thing. The more flexability you want, the more valves and piping you need. The disadvantage to making it too flexable is that it becomes too complex and prone to operator error as well as developing a vacuum leak somewhere. Your ACSII schematic came across totally skewed. That is a problem with proportional fonts and TABs I know. I didn't use tabs though, just spaces. So if you cut'n'paste the schematic into a word processor and choose a fixed width font it'll look fine. Steve "Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message ... On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 21:10:23 -0500, "Doug Dotson" wrote: Steve, I understood that you were suggesting that I leave the polishing system running while running the engine. Since I have 2 tanks it seems to me to require two polishing systems to keep polishing while running. The system I have designed allows me to polish either of the two tanks at any time and run the engine out of either tank at any time as well. So I can polish the same one I am running out of if I wish. I guess the choice of which to polish while running is up for grabs. I think I'd route it so that I can route either tank to the polishing system then 'T' the polishing system to the engine and the return to either tank. Just make sure you're returning to the same tank you're drawing from. A simplified version (without bypass plumbing which is a pain to draw) looks something like this: (view with fixed point font like courier) -------------- /--------------------------T---------| | Y select / return to tanks | | ---------- | --------------- | | | |(to tank 2) | check valve | | | Tank 1 | --------------- | | |---------- ------------- | | ---------- | | Polishing | -------- | ---------- |from | filters | | | | \ | | Y select /----| with |-| Pump |-T- \-| Engine | ---------- /tanks| bypassing | | | | | | | | ------------- -------- ---------- | Tank 2 | | | |---------- ---------- out If the above ascii drawing looks horrible, sorry. But basically, the supply from both tanks goes to a Y valve which feeds either to the polishing filters. That's where you'd put the bypass valves so you can go around any filter (GCF or Racor). Then to a T where one side goes to a shutoff valve then to the engine. The shutoff valve is so that you can turn off fuel to the engine while you're priming the system after changing filters so air won't get in the engine. You can also plumb it so that the engine can draw from the tanka bypassing the filters so you can prime them and run the engine at the same time if that's a requirement. I didn't care about that since I don't run the engine all that much (sailboat.) Also not shown is that you want to install vacuum gauges, one before the GCF filter, one between the GCF and the Racor and one after the Racor before the Walbro pump. Any difference more than a few psi across a filter means it's time for an element change. The other side of the T goes to a check valve. That's there so that if the electric pump fails the engine won't suck air from the return lines. Then there's a T where the engine return and the polishing system return join and go to another Y valve to select where to return the fuel to. Just make sure both Y valves are in the same position. You can also use this as a fuel transfering pump if you want to, by putting the Y valves in different positions. But be careful you don't overflow the tank being filled. Steve |
#304
|
|||
|
|||
Fuel transfer/polishing pump
|
#306
|
|||
|
|||
Fuel transfer/polishing pump
Good suggestions. I'll try and clean up the schematic and take a
closer look at it. Doug s/v Callista "Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message ... On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 23:44:05 -0500, "Doug Dotson" wrote: Steve, Just a quick reply since I'm about ready to hit the sack. I think you are saying that the polishing system should be something that can be switched inline on the way to the engine. That amounts to just more pre-engine filtering. What I want is a system that can recirculate fuel independent of the engine system. From what I gather, recirculating fuel through a filtering system will result in clean fuel so that the engine system will not be stressed (lift pump). Also, much crud is built up while just sitting in the slip or on the hard over the winter. Better to clean it up prior to offering it up to the engine than hitting the engine filters all at once. With the system I described below, what you can do is, while the engine is not running (there are long periods when it's off, right?) shut off the valve to the engine intake. Then you have your system that can recirculate fuel through the filtering system and clean the fuel in the tank without it going to the engine. Leave the pump on for a few days or until the filters clog, whichever comes first, before opening the valve to the engine. Then open the engine valve to run it and it'll get the freshest filtered fuel possible because it's drawing it right from the polishing system. Of course, the disadvantage of doing it this way is that if you don't install polishing system bypass valves, you have to run the walbro pump whenever you're running the engine. I've found that to be not all that much of a disadvantage and the advantage is that fuel is being polished whenever the engine is running. You can always wire it into the ignition switch with a double solenoid relay so that the pump can be controlled via the ignition switch or another switch with a 12 hour timer so you can set it and leave the boat and it'll turn off on it's own after running for 12 hours. There sre so many different ways you can plumb the thing. The more flexability you want, the more valves and piping you need. The disadvantage to making it too flexable is that it becomes too complex and prone to operator error as well as developing a vacuum leak somewhere. Your ACSII schematic came across totally skewed. That is a problem with proportional fonts and TABs I know. I didn't use tabs though, just spaces. So if you cut'n'paste the schematic into a word processor and choose a fixed width font it'll look fine. Steve "Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message ... On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 21:10:23 -0500, "Doug Dotson" wrote: Steve, I understood that you were suggesting that I leave the polishing system running while running the engine. Since I have 2 tanks it seems to me to require two polishing systems to keep polishing while running. The system I have designed allows me to polish either of the two tanks at any time and run the engine out of either tank at any time as well. So I can polish the same one I am running out of if I wish. I guess the choice of which to polish while running is up for grabs. I think I'd route it so that I can route either tank to the polishing system then 'T' the polishing system to the engine and the return to either tank. Just make sure you're returning to the same tank you're drawing from. A simplified version (without bypass plumbing which is a pain to draw) looks something like this: (view with fixed point font like courier) -------------- /--------------------------T---------| | Y select / return to tanks | | ---------- | --------------- | | | |(to tank 2) | check valve | | | Tank 1 | --------------- | | |---------- ------------- | | ---------- | | Polishing | -------- | ---------- |from | filters | | | | \ | | Y select /----| with |-| Pump |-T- \-| Engine | ---------- /tanks| bypassing | | | | | | | | ------------- -------- ---------- | Tank 2 | | | |---------- ---------- out If the above ascii drawing looks horrible, sorry. But basically, the supply from both tanks goes to a Y valve which feeds either to the polishing filters. That's where you'd put the bypass valves so you can go around any filter (GCF or Racor). Then to a T where one side goes to a shutoff valve then to the engine. The shutoff valve is so that you can turn off fuel to the engine while you're priming the system after changing filters so air won't get in the engine. You can also plumb it so that the engine can draw from the tanka bypassing the filters so you can prime them and run the engine at the same time if that's a requirement. I didn't care about that since I don't run the engine all that much (sailboat.) Also not shown is that you want to install vacuum gauges, one before the GCF filter, one between the GCF and the Racor and one after the Racor before the Walbro pump. Any difference more than a few psi across a filter means it's time for an element change. The other side of the T goes to a check valve. That's there so that if the electric pump fails the engine won't suck air from the return lines. Then there's a T where the engine return and the polishing system return join and go to another Y valve to select where to return the fuel to. Just make sure both Y valves are in the same position. You can also use this as a fuel transfering pump if you want to, by putting the Y valves in different positions. But be careful you don't overflow the tank being filled. Steve |
#307
|
|||
|
|||
Fuel transfer/polishing pump
Good suggestions. I'll try and clean up the schematic and take a
closer look at it. Doug s/v Callista "Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message ... On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 23:44:05 -0500, "Doug Dotson" wrote: Steve, Just a quick reply since I'm about ready to hit the sack. I think you are saying that the polishing system should be something that can be switched inline on the way to the engine. That amounts to just more pre-engine filtering. What I want is a system that can recirculate fuel independent of the engine system. From what I gather, recirculating fuel through a filtering system will result in clean fuel so that the engine system will not be stressed (lift pump). Also, much crud is built up while just sitting in the slip or on the hard over the winter. Better to clean it up prior to offering it up to the engine than hitting the engine filters all at once. With the system I described below, what you can do is, while the engine is not running (there are long periods when it's off, right?) shut off the valve to the engine intake. Then you have your system that can recirculate fuel through the filtering system and clean the fuel in the tank without it going to the engine. Leave the pump on for a few days or until the filters clog, whichever comes first, before opening the valve to the engine. Then open the engine valve to run it and it'll get the freshest filtered fuel possible because it's drawing it right from the polishing system. Of course, the disadvantage of doing it this way is that if you don't install polishing system bypass valves, you have to run the walbro pump whenever you're running the engine. I've found that to be not all that much of a disadvantage and the advantage is that fuel is being polished whenever the engine is running. You can always wire it into the ignition switch with a double solenoid relay so that the pump can be controlled via the ignition switch or another switch with a 12 hour timer so you can set it and leave the boat and it'll turn off on it's own after running for 12 hours. There sre so many different ways you can plumb the thing. The more flexability you want, the more valves and piping you need. The disadvantage to making it too flexable is that it becomes too complex and prone to operator error as well as developing a vacuum leak somewhere. Your ACSII schematic came across totally skewed. That is a problem with proportional fonts and TABs I know. I didn't use tabs though, just spaces. So if you cut'n'paste the schematic into a word processor and choose a fixed width font it'll look fine. Steve "Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message ... On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 21:10:23 -0500, "Doug Dotson" wrote: Steve, I understood that you were suggesting that I leave the polishing system running while running the engine. Since I have 2 tanks it seems to me to require two polishing systems to keep polishing while running. The system I have designed allows me to polish either of the two tanks at any time and run the engine out of either tank at any time as well. So I can polish the same one I am running out of if I wish. I guess the choice of which to polish while running is up for grabs. I think I'd route it so that I can route either tank to the polishing system then 'T' the polishing system to the engine and the return to either tank. Just make sure you're returning to the same tank you're drawing from. A simplified version (without bypass plumbing which is a pain to draw) looks something like this: (view with fixed point font like courier) -------------- /--------------------------T---------| | Y select / return to tanks | | ---------- | --------------- | | | |(to tank 2) | check valve | | | Tank 1 | --------------- | | |---------- ------------- | | ---------- | | Polishing | -------- | ---------- |from | filters | | | | \ | | Y select /----| with |-| Pump |-T- \-| Engine | ---------- /tanks| bypassing | | | | | | | | ------------- -------- ---------- | Tank 2 | | | |---------- ---------- out If the above ascii drawing looks horrible, sorry. But basically, the supply from both tanks goes to a Y valve which feeds either to the polishing filters. That's where you'd put the bypass valves so you can go around any filter (GCF or Racor). Then to a T where one side goes to a shutoff valve then to the engine. The shutoff valve is so that you can turn off fuel to the engine while you're priming the system after changing filters so air won't get in the engine. You can also plumb it so that the engine can draw from the tanka bypassing the filters so you can prime them and run the engine at the same time if that's a requirement. I didn't care about that since I don't run the engine all that much (sailboat.) Also not shown is that you want to install vacuum gauges, one before the GCF filter, one between the GCF and the Racor and one after the Racor before the Walbro pump. Any difference more than a few psi across a filter means it's time for an element change. The other side of the T goes to a check valve. That's there so that if the electric pump fails the engine won't suck air from the return lines. Then there's a T where the engine return and the polishing system return join and go to another Y valve to select where to return the fuel to. Just make sure both Y valves are in the same position. You can also use this as a fuel transfering pump if you want to, by putting the Y valves in different positions. But be careful you don't overflow the tank being filled. Steve |
#308
|
|||
|
|||
Fuel transfer/polishing pump
Subject: Fuel transfer/polishing pump
From: "Doug Dotson" Whatever. It was a joke Doug. Note the :-) You've lost sight of the outcome being strived for. Hardly. Don't need bad weather. Just a trip down the ICW will stir up the fuel tanks. If you say so. But I would doubt it. Capt. Bill |
#309
|
|||
|
|||
Fuel transfer/polishing pump
Subject: Fuel transfer/polishing pump
From: "Doug Dotson" Whatever. It was a joke Doug. Note the :-) You've lost sight of the outcome being strived for. Hardly. Don't need bad weather. Just a trip down the ICW will stir up the fuel tanks. If you say so. But I would doubt it. Capt. Bill |
#310
|
|||
|
|||
Fuel transfer/polishing pump
Subject: Fuel transfer/polishing pump
From: This is why I like the way my system is plumbed, i.e., the engine draws from the polishing system. That way, you don't have to worry about stirring up the fuel to polish it. If the engine is running and you're in rough weather, it's being filtered before going to the engine. If you have it in a separate loop and you run into rough weather that stirs up the tank, you can introduce dirt from the tank wall that wasn't dislodged while you were polishing and it'll get to the engine. You don't have to worry about bubbling or stirring it up if it's always being filtered before getting to the engine. And you can run the system with the engine off also to get a multiple pass circulation just like if it was in a separate loop. Sounds good to me. Capt. Bill |
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Problem changing out my fuel pump | General | |||
Engine dies- Putters when trying to plane- engine under under heavy load | General | |||
Can a single 72 gal per hour fuel pump run two 392 cu inch motors? | General | |||
Inboard won't run above 2800 RPM | General | |||
Fuel pump to carbs fuel line replacement | General |