All this discussion about filtration is actually misleading. If you
periodically inspect and or clean the tank occasionally, you will have
minimal problems.

Buy only 'fresh' fuel. Clean your tank every now and then. Use a
recirc. filtration system. Dont worry, be happy.

Fuel Oil ages and with time polymerizes into particulate which adhere
to the tank walls only to break loose when you dont want it to.
Bacterial infect the oil, use the iron components and oil as nutrients
and then form slimes that adhere to the tank walls. When these bacteria
die the cellular components make a thick soup. All these particles are
'grown' in the tank. The more the particles the more will form.
Occasional tank cleaning will keep the particulate load low and reduce
the need for filters.

The real answer is to get in and inspect & clean the tank on a routine
basis. Steam works best and you can usually get into most of the
hidden places even behind baffles, etc. If you cant get steam, then a
long handled brush and elbow grease will be of benefit.

Most fuel in the USA is quite clean. If you buy 'fresh' fuel from a
high volume distributor you will get very little 'old' oil. Dont
'store' lots of fuel in your tankage, buy what you need, and dont top
off the tank every time you need it. Find a way to drain the water
from the tank to retard bacteria growth.

Then ..... if you have a clean tank, fresh fuel .... the challenge to
the filters will be VERY minimal.

If anyone wants to see a schematic of my filtration system (with
independent recirc. system and emergency 'day' tank) send me an eMail
at remove the NOSPAM to send. My recirc.
system does virtually all the work, its so efficient that I'm thinking
about removing the complicated 'Racor Train' for a single small Racor
and a 'guard' filter. My 'day' tank will permit 2+ hours of running
without even changing a fully plugged filter - If I cant solve a fuel
problem in 2 hours, I shouldnt be sailing. My fuel system is a
pressure sytem instead of the typical vacuum system to enhance the
filter lifetime. I use gauges to monitor filter performance .... and so
far I havent had ANY challenge to the Racors in almost 5 years. I
clean out the tankage every two years. When I start travellilng to
the 'third world', I add a Baja filter to the delivery pipe to keep out
all the rocks stick and feathers.

Hope this helps.
:-)




In article , LaBomba182
wrote:

Subject: Fuel transfer/polishing pump
From: "Doug Dotson"

One poster mentioned that Raycor type filters
don;t make good polishing filters because they are surface filters and
clog up quickly.

Well, they would be wrong.
Like Glenn said, you need to use the right size filter for the job.

The paper towel and toilet paper types are better
for polishing.

Yeah no doubt. Things designed to wipe your kitchen counter and wipe your ass
will beat a Racor for filtering fuel everytime.

Next you'll be adding an Algea-X into the mix. :-)


Capt. Bill

I did the reversing pump so I can select which main to draw from when
filling the day tank from the nav station. Once I get an accurate
measure of the flow rate I can calibrate a timer to transfer an exact
amount of fuel to the day tank. That should simplify fuel management.
Just set the timer, make a log entry and forget it.

I see my set up not so much as a fuel polishing system as a pre-filter.
As a practical matter, full polishing is rather rarely required.
When I do get a gunked up load I will just have set it to recirculate
and sacrifice a filter. I understand that Parker/Racor makes a
washable diesel filter but I can't find any data on it.

Doug Dotson wrote:

Sounds like a good system. I've designed mine so that a reversing
pump is not necessary, and I can switch the filter in or out. The
idea is that bypassing the filter I can transfer fuel faster if the
fuel is already clean. One poster mentioned that Raycor type filters
don;t make good polishing filters because they are surface filters and
clog up quickly. The paper towel and toilet paper types are better
for polishing. I was always thinking of using Raycors but now I have to
do some more research.

Doug

"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
news:nZ%wb.52966$xV6.15766@lakeread04...

Doug,

I have been through this myself. Actually you do have more of a filter
problem than a pump problem. The 500 is just to small for a practical
polishing system. You need a 1000 at a minimum.

The smallest transfer pumps (Reverso) are rated at 180 GPH at zero head
which is the max rating for the 1000. Racor says that when you get
close to the max rating the turbine can scour water out of the bowl but
you have head loss in the piping and the filter itself so the actual
flow will be somewhat below the max rating. It would take four 1000's
to keep up with a Jabsco VR050 and two to handle a Groco SP06.

While the Reverso filters can handle up to 15 PSI, Reverso incourages
upstream installation to avoid the possibilities of pressureized leakage
and slightly better filtering performance.

My system consist of 40 gal port and stbd mains and a 30 gal "day" tank.
The mains have Racor 1000s on their pickup lines and there is no
external fill for the day tank. Any fuel reaching it has to go through
a filter first. I am using the Reverso GP301 3 GPM reversable with four
check valves and two 3-way selector valves.

By changing the direction of the pump rotation I can pull from either
main tank and with one 3-way selector can route the output to any of the
three tanks. The second 3-way allows me to bypass the day tank and pull
from either of the mains should the Reverso crap out. With this
arangement I can fill the day tank with freshly filtered fuel, polish a
single tank or move fuel to the windward tank for trim. Whenever fuel
moves it gets filtered.



Doug Dotson wrote:

I am designing a fuel polishing and transfer system. My thought
is to use valves to route fuel from any tank to any tank. No
problem with that part. I want to be able to just transfer fuel
or switch in a filter to polish the fuel while transferring. Since
I can select the same tank for source and destination, I can
polish fuel in place as well. The problem comes with the selection
of a pump. I was looking at a Groco or Jabsco pump which seems
good for transfer purposes, but way exceeds the flowrate of the
filter when polishing. A Walbro fuel pump (which I have as a priming
pump now) seems like a good fit for polishing (33 GPH) but will be slow
when just transferring fuel. What happens when a 5.5 GPM pump
(Jabsco) is pushing fuel through a filter rated at 60 GPH (RACOR 500)?

Thanks!
Doug
s/v Callista




--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com





--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Subject: Fuel transfer/polishing pump
From: "Doug Dotson"

One poster mentioned that Raycor type filters
don;t make good polishing filters because they are surface filters and
clog up quickly.

Well, they would be wrong.
Like Glenn said, you need to use the right size filter for the job.

The paper towel and toilet paper types are better
for polishing.

Yeah no doubt. Things designed to wipe your kitchen counter and wipe your ass
will beat a Racor for filtering fuel everytime.

Next you'll be adding an Algea-X into the mix. :-)


Capt. Bill

Sounds like a good system. I've designed mine so that a reversing
pump is not necessary, and I can switch the filter in or out. The
idea is that bypassing the filter I can transfer fuel faster if the
fuel is already clean. One poster mentioned that Raycor type filters
don;t make good polishing filters because they are surface filters and
clog up quickly. The paper towel and toilet paper types are better
for polishing. I was always thinking of using Raycors but now I have to
do some more research.

Doug

"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
news:nZ%wb.52966$xV6.15766@lakeread04...
Doug,

I have been through this myself. Actually you do have more of a filter
problem than a pump problem. The 500 is just to small for a practical
polishing system. You need a 1000 at a minimum.

The smallest transfer pumps (Reverso) are rated at 180 GPH at zero head
which is the max rating for the 1000. Racor says that when you get
close to the max rating the turbine can scour water out of the bowl but
you have head loss in the piping and the filter itself so the actual
flow will be somewhat below the max rating. It would take four 1000's
to keep up with a Jabsco VR050 and two to handle a Groco SP06.

While the Reverso filters can handle up to 15 PSI, Reverso incourages
upstream installation to avoid the possibilities of pressureized leakage
and slightly better filtering performance.

My system consist of 40 gal port and stbd mains and a 30 gal "day" tank.
The mains have Racor 1000s on their pickup lines and there is no
external fill for the day tank. Any fuel reaching it has to go through
a filter first. I am using the Reverso GP301 3 GPM reversable with four
check valves and two 3-way selector valves.

By changing the direction of the pump rotation I can pull from either
main tank and with one 3-way selector can route the output to any of the
three tanks. The second 3-way allows me to bypass the day tank and pull
from either of the mains should the Reverso crap out. With this
arangement I can fill the day tank with freshly filtered fuel, polish a
single tank or move fuel to the windward tank for trim. Whenever fuel
moves it gets filtered.



Doug Dotson wrote:
I am designing a fuel polishing and transfer system. My thought
is to use valves to route fuel from any tank to any tank. No
problem with that part. I want to be able to just transfer fuel
or switch in a filter to polish the fuel while transferring. Since
I can select the same tank for source and destination, I can
polish fuel in place as well. The problem comes with the selection
of a pump. I was looking at a Groco or Jabsco pump which seems
good for transfer purposes, but way exceeds the flowrate of the
filter when polishing. A Walbro fuel pump (which I have as a priming
pump now) seems like a good fit for polishing (33 GPH) but will be slow
when just transferring fuel. What happens when a 5.5 GPM pump
(Jabsco) is pushing fuel through a filter rated at 60 GPH (RACOR 500)?

Thanks!
Doug
s/v Callista




--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Doug,

I have been through this myself. Actually you do have more of a filter
problem than a pump problem. The 500 is just to small for a practical
polishing system. You need a 1000 at a minimum.

The smallest transfer pumps (Reverso) are rated at 180 GPH at zero head
which is the max rating for the 1000. Racor says that when you get
close to the max rating the turbine can scour water out of the bowl but
you have head loss in the piping and the filter itself so the actual
flow will be somewhat below the max rating. It would take four 1000's
to keep up with a Jabsco VR050 and two to handle a Groco SP06.

While the Reverso filters can handle up to 15 PSI, Reverso incourages
upstream installation to avoid the possibilities of pressureized leakage
and slightly better filtering performance.

My system consist of 40 gal port and stbd mains and a 30 gal "day" tank.
The mains have Racor 1000s on their pickup lines and there is no
external fill for the day tank. Any fuel reaching it has to go through
a filter first. I am using the Reverso GP301 3 GPM reversable with four
check valves and two 3-way selector valves.

By changing the direction of the pump rotation I can pull from either
main tank and with one 3-way selector can route the output to any of the
three tanks. The second 3-way allows me to bypass the day tank and pull
from either of the mains should the Reverso crap out. With this
arangement I can fill the day tank with freshly filtered fuel, polish a
single tank or move fuel to the windward tank for trim. Whenever fuel
moves it gets filtered.



Doug Dotson wrote:
I am designing a fuel polishing and transfer system. My thought
is to use valves to route fuel from any tank to any tank. No
problem with that part. I want to be able to just transfer fuel
or switch in a filter to polish the fuel while transferring. Since
I can select the same tank for source and destination, I can
polish fuel in place as well. The problem comes with the selection
of a pump. I was looking at a Groco or Jabsco pump which seems
good for transfer purposes, but way exceeds the flowrate of the
filter when polishing. A Walbro fuel pump (which I have as a priming
pump now) seems like a good fit for polishing (33 GPH) but will be slow
when just transferring fuel. What happens when a 5.5 GPM pump
(Jabsco) is pushing fuel through a filter rated at 60 GPH (RACOR 500)?

Thanks!
Doug
s/v Callista




--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 17:49:20 -0500, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:

I am designing a fuel polishing and transfer system. My thought
is to use valves to route fuel from any tank to any tank. No
problem with that part. I want to be able to just transfer fuel
or switch in a filter to polish the fuel while transferring. Since
I can select the same tank for source and destination, I can
polish fuel in place as well. The problem comes with the selection
of a pump. I was looking at a Groco or Jabsco pump which seems
good for transfer purposes, but way exceeds the flowrate of the
filter when polishing. A Walbro fuel pump (which I have as a priming
pump now) seems like a good fit for polishing (33 GPH) but will be slow
when just transferring fuel. What happens when a 5.5 GPM pump
(Jabsco) is pushing fuel through a filter rated at 60 GPH (RACOR 500)?

Thanks!
Doug
s/v Callista

Doug,

I just finished building a fuel polishing system for my boat, using a
Walbro pump. I had an old Fram filter (using a Wix element) and
purchased a new Racor. With the system I can change filters while the
engine is running. I can also monitor the filters with a vacuum gage
so I know in advance when a filter is getting clogged. I wanted a
pump that would pull fuel through the system faster than the Walbro so
that I could do more filtering in a set period of time. But beginning
with advice from contributors to this newsgroup and then researching
on my own, I found that the filters would not filter properly if the
fuel were pulled through faster.

So, unless you are willing to purchase very large (and expensive)
filters or several filters in parallel (also expensive), you will need
a pump like the Walbro for fuel polishing and a separate pump for fuel
transfer, if you want to transfer quickly. Also note that the Walbro
is specified for continuous operation while some other fuel tolerant
pumps are not. You need continuous operation for polishing.

To solve the question of only polishing clean fuel while the crud
remained on the bottom of the tank, I have a sealable opening in the
top of the tank and enough room to put in a long stick to stir the
fuel. My 100 gallon tank does not seem to have baffles that would
render this method less effective.

I would have installed a Gulf Coast filter (paper towels) instead of
the old Fram, but I could not afford one. They are damned expensive.
I have no personal knowledge nor objective research results that back
up their claims of superior filtering. I just accepted the hype.

BTW I saw a Walbro pump for sale on E-Bay two days after I purchased
mine, and for half the price I paid. The seller seemed to have
several available.

Lee Huddleston
s/v Truelove

Are you guys sure you really need all this stuff?

I fueled in some pretty suspicious places with questionable fuel in a lot of
third world countries. I used a Baja filter for all the fuel entering the 1
(one) and only fuel tank. It would usually pick up a few ounces of water
and a lot of crud in the first filter element.

The one and only time bad fuel stopped our engine was in the ICW after
picking up a load of very water logged fuel. Just anchored, changed the
filter, and emptied about 1 quart water from the filter bowl. Because I was
in the US, where bad fuel is seldom a problem, I didn't use the Baja
filter....I must have been that guy's only customer that year.

Just my experience after 3-1/2 years cruising.


--
Evan Gatehouse

you'll have to rewrite my email address to get to me
ceilydh AT 3web dot net
(fools the spammers)

Are you guys sure you really need all this stuff?

I fueled in some pretty suspicious places with questionable fuel in a lot of
third world countries. I used a Baja filter for all the fuel entering the 1
(one) and only fuel tank. It would usually pick up a few ounces of water
and a lot of crud in the first filter element.

The one and only time bad fuel stopped our engine was in the ICW after
picking up a load of very water logged fuel. Just anchored, changed the
filter, and emptied about 1 quart water from the filter bowl. Because I was
in the US, where bad fuel is seldom a problem, I didn't use the Baja
filter....I must have been that guy's only customer that year.

Just my experience after 3-1/2 years cruising.


--
Evan Gatehouse

you'll have to rewrite my email address to get to me
ceilydh AT 3web dot net
(fools the spammers)

"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
I am designing a fuel polishing and transfer system. My thought

[snip]

polish fuel in place as well. The problem comes with the selection
of a pump. I was looking at a Groco or Jabsco pump which seems
good for transfer purposes, but way exceeds the flowrate of the
filter when polishing. A Walbro fuel pump (which I have as a priming
pump now) seems like a good fit for polishing (33 GPH) but will be slow
when just transferring fuel. What happens when a 5.5 GPM pump
(Jabsco) is pushing fuel through a filter rated at 60 GPH (RACOR 500)?

Probably nothing much will happen to the filter - as you increase the flow
through the filter, the resistance increases. The increased resistance
reduces the output of the pump (5.5 GPM is probably with no resistance). At
some point you'll reach an equilibrium condition where the increased
resistance of the filter meets the fuel pump's output curve.

You could talk to Racor (now owned by Parker I think) about exceeding the
rated flow rates and see if they have a contrary opinion. Perhaps the
filtering action is impeeded by the higher flow rate. You could also
install a gate valve in the system to throttle the pump output. You could
check the pump output by pumping into a temporary container and measuring
the output.

Whatever brand of pump you get, make sure it is rated for pumping fuel.

--
Evan Gatehouse

you'll have to rewrite my email address to get to me
ceilydh AT 3web dot net
(fools the spammers)

Doug-
RCI Fuel Purifiers have capacities from 1.5 to 400 gpm...they have no moving
parts and no element to change. The purification is done with baffle and
coalescer plates. These purifiers remove particulate down to less than 10
microns and 99.9% of water. Their website is: http://www.rcipurifier.com/

In all honesty, I am associated with this company (and with Gulf Coast
Filters) and I manufacture onboard fuel polishers.


--
Charlie Johnson
JTB Marine Service
St. Petersburg, FL
727.560.9065



"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
I am designing a fuel polishing and transfer system. My thought
is to use valves to route fuel from any tank to any tank. No
problem with that part. I want to be able to just transfer fuel
or switch in a filter to polish the fuel while transferring. Since
I can select the same tank for source and destination, I can
polish fuel in place as well. The problem comes with the selection
of a pump. I was looking at a Groco or Jabsco pump which seems
good for transfer purposes, but way exceeds the flowrate of the
filter when polishing. A Walbro fuel pump (which I have as a priming
pump now) seems like a good fit for polishing (33 GPH) but will be slow
when just transferring fuel. What happens when a 5.5 GPM pump
(Jabsco) is pushing fuel through a filter rated at 60 GPH (RACOR 500)?

Thanks!
Doug
s/v Callista