"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Lauri Tarkkonen" wrote in message
...
In "Wilbur Hubbard"
writes:


wrote in message
...
Net loss of 270K. You pay 27 thousand dollars a year to use your
boat
a dozen or so weekends a year. Stupid, just plain stupid!

Think about it.

Wilbur Hubbard

Now Wilbur do the math if the idiot did not purchased a boat.
Show with concrete evidence what happened to the 270K that what not
spend buying and maintaining a boat.


If that sum wasn't spent on something else stupid and useless as far
as
investment is concerned it could be invested in something that would
give a reasonable return. Things like land, stocks, bonds, gold(in
the
last ten years), If you get a 10% return per anum your 270K will be
worth 540K in ten years. In twenty years it makes you a millionaire.
So
you trade millionaire status for the privilege of owning a 100K boat?

That's totally insane. . .

Wilbur Hubbard

I do not know what gives you the right to call someone with different
preferences than you an idiot.

Relax, Lauri. You have to know Capt. Neal to understand his tirades.

Max

Tirade? Since when is fact tirade? Since when has a valid point backed
up with figures about how people waste their money on boats become
trolling? Is this not a discussion group about boats? Is not discussing
if and how boats are a terrible waste of money not a valid discussion
point? From the looks of this group it seems to me such a discussion is
totally appropriate.

When people call it trolling, off topic, a tirade, perhaps it's because
they are jealous when they see a thread getting lots of traffic and they
feel badly because they aren't astute enough to initiate such a
discussion. "That's not fair, I'm not gonna play anymore," they whine.

Wilbur Hubbard

* Wilbur Hubbard wrote, On 3/22/2007 5:32 PM:
....

Tirade? Since when is fact tirade? Since when has a valid point backed
up with figures about how people waste their money on boats become
trolling?

As usual, it was backed up by made up numbers. Let's look a bit more
carefully:

The average idiot buys a boat for say 100K

hardly, but let's leave that fro the moment

and finances it for ten years.

Financing a boat only makes sense if you have a job that easily covers
it, most prefer to pay cash. However, if you were to finance a $100K
boat, you would probably need 20% down, so you're financing $80K, with
a current rate of 6.37% (Essex Finance Boat Loan). For 10 years,
that's $903 /month, for a total of $108K. So the cost of the boat,
plus outfitting is $40K down, and $108K spread over 10 years.

He fits it out and keeps it in a slip. The fitting out
costs 20K, the slip costs 5K per year, the insurance
costs 1K a year. Haulout for bottom paint 1K a year.
Fuel 1/2K a year.

These numbers are rather high and would represent "top end"
accommodations. However, there are numerous costs not included so I
won't quibble.

After ten years the idiot has spent 250K paying back
the loan, 20K fitting out,

your sloppy math has you off by roughly a factor of 2 here - total
cost was $148K ...

50K slip fee, 10K insurance, 10K haulout, 5K fuel, oil, filters,

we'll give you th $75K of annual fees

345K invested in a 100K boat that perhaps can be sold
in ten years for 75K. Net loss of 270K.

Nope, it was $40K invested, plus $108K in payments, plus $75K in
expenses, for a total of $223. The sale price of $75 seems low,
but that would mean a "loss" of $148K.

You pay 27 thousand dollars a year to use your boat a dozen or
so weekends a year. Stupid, just plain stupid!

Nope, it was only $14.8K a year, you're off by a factor of 2. Of
course, 2800 was finance charge, by keeping the boat on a mooring you
could save at least $3000 a year. Further, the "average" boater
doesn't buy an expensive new boat. Very few people have a boat worth
more than $50K. So it would be easy to keep the total cost at under
$10K per year. Clearly a lot of money, but everyone knows that boat
ownership is a form of mental illness.

Is this not a discussion group about boats?

I agree its a reasonable topic of discussion, but basing it on bogus
numbers is counterproductive.

"Jeff" wrote in message
. ..
* Wilbur Hubbard wrote, On 3/22/2007 5:32 PM:
...

Tirade? Since when is fact tirade? Since when has a valid point
backed up with figures about how people waste their money on boats
become trolling?

As usual, it was backed up by made up numbers. Let's look a bit more
carefully:

The average idiot buys a boat for say 100K

hardly, but let's leave that fro the moment

and finances it for ten years.

Financing a boat only makes sense if you have a job that easily covers
it, most prefer to pay cash. However, if you were to finance a $100K
boat, you would probably need 20% down, so you're financing $80K, with
a current rate of 6.37% (Essex Finance Boat Loan). For 10 years,
that's $903 /month, for a total of $108K. So the cost of the boat,
plus outfitting is $40K down, and $108K spread over 10 years.

He fits it out and keeps it in a slip. The fitting out
costs 20K, the slip costs 5K per year, the insurance
costs 1K a year. Haulout for bottom paint 1K a year.
Fuel 1/2K a year.

These numbers are rather high and would represent "top end"
accommodations. However, there are numerous costs not included so I
won't quibble.

After ten years the idiot has spent 250K paying back
the loan, 20K fitting out,

your sloppy math has you off by roughly a factor of 2 here - total
cost was $148K ...

50K slip fee, 10K insurance, 10K haulout, 5K fuel, oil, filters,

we'll give you th $75K of annual fees

345K invested in a 100K boat that perhaps can be sold
in ten years for 75K. Net loss of 270K.

Nope, it was $40K invested, plus $108K in payments, plus $75K in
expenses, for a total of $223. The sale price of $75 seems low,
but that would mean a "loss" of $148K.

You pay 27 thousand dollars a year to use your boat a dozen or
so weekends a year. Stupid, just plain stupid!

Nope, it was only $14.8K a year, you're off by a factor of 2. Of
course, 2800 was finance charge, by keeping the boat on a mooring you
could save at least $3000 a year. Further, the "average" boater
doesn't buy an expensive new boat. Very few people have a boat worth
more than $50K. So it would be easy to keep the total cost at under
$10K per year. Clearly a lot of money, but everyone knows that boat
ownership is a form of mental illness.

Is this not a discussion group about boats?

I agree its a reasonable topic of discussion, but basing it on bogus
numbers is counterproductive.


So, let's split the difference then. You purposely went low and I
purposely went high. Let's compromise and call it 2OK a year. That's
still ridiculous. And it depends a lot on where you slip your boat. Some
places in some of the more expensive parts of the country rent slips for
a forty foot boat, for example, for well over a grand a month. Your
finance interest rates are too low. etc. So you should be willing to
compromise and split the difference too if you're reasonable.

Wilbur Hubbard

* Wilbur Hubbard wrote, On 3/22/2007 8:24 PM:
....
I agree its a reasonable topic of discussion, but basing it on bogus
numbers is counterproductive.


So, let's split the difference then. You purposely went low and ...

No, I tried to be dead on.

I purposely went high.

So you admit you knowingly lied. But what else is new?

Let's compromise and call it 2OK a year. That's
still ridiculous. And it depends a lot on where you slip your boat.
Some places in some of the more expensive parts of the country
rent slips for a forty foot boat, for example, for well
over a grand a month.

Its true that you can find super expensive slips, just like you can
find super expensive houses. But the average is lower than your
quote. Not to mention, 40 feet is more than average.

Your
finance interest rates are too low. etc.

No, I got today's rate from the Essex Finance site, and ran it through
their calculator. That's the difference, I deal with reality, and you
live in a fantasy world.

So you should be willing to
compromise and split the difference too if you're reasonable.

OK, your premise leads to 14K/per year but 10K is easily possible.
Splitting the difference is 12K.

Elsewhere, you claim that investing the money would yield $540K, but
if I plug the real numbers ($14K plus your expenses), you'd actually
be ahead $225K. This is assuming 9% returns, but not factoring in
taxes owed on the income, and the tax deduction of the boat loan,
which could bring the difference down to about $180K. Clearly, its
still a high price to pay, but then, you can't take it with you.