"Lauri Tarkkonen" wrote in message
...
In "Wilbur Hubbard"
writes:


"Lauri Tarkkonen" wrote in message
...
In "KLC Lewis"
writes:


wrote in message
...
Net loss of 270K. You pay 27 thousand dollars a year to use your
boat
a dozen or so weekends a year. Stupid, just plain stupid!

Think about it.

Wilbur Hubbard

Now Wilbur do the math if the idiot did not purchased a boat.
Show with concrete evidence what happened to the 270K that what
not
spend
buying and maintaining a boat.


"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in
message
...
The average idiot buys a boat for say 100K and finances it for
ten
years. He fits it out and keeps it in a slip. The fitting out
costs 20K,
the slip costs 5K per year, the insurance costs 1K a year.
Haulout
for
bottom paint 1K a year. Fuel 1/2K a year.

After ten years the idiot has spent 250K paying back the loan,
20K
fitting out, 50K slip fee, 10K insurance, 10K haulout, 5K fuel,
oil,
filters, etc.

345K invested in a 100K boat that perhaps can be sold in ten
years
for
75K. Net loss of 270K. You pay 27 thousand dollars a year to use
your
boat a dozen or so weekends a year. Stupid, just plain stupid!

Think about it.

Wilbur Hubbard

As for me and Essie, I paid cash for her (all of $8,000) and have
probably
put another $15,000 into new sails, rigging, instruments, anchors
and
other
improvements over the past 6 years. I pay about $3,000 per year on
summer
slip / winter storage. Insurance is about $350 per year. Fuel? I
haven't
bought any for years -- I probably burn about $10 worth in a season,
since
the motor rarely runs and only burns about a quart an hour. Haulout
for
bottom paint? Hauling out happens every October, as close to
Halloween
as I
can manage. I repaint the bottom, if needed, before splashing in the
spring
(one month from today) and isn't an extra expense. But everywhere
I've
been
where bottom painting requires special haul-out, it happens every
three
years or so, and costs about $500. Even if it's a grand, it's not a
grand
every year.

What's she worth today? I can't say. I wouldn't sell her for rubies.
If I go
broke and bankrupt and lose 'most everything I own, I will still
have
my
boat which will be my only home. People go to bars and pay $5.00 for
a
drink
which passes right through them after stealing their brain for a
spell. To
me, THAT is a waste of money. Whatever floats y'er boat, mate!

We all know that it is dangerous to have more money than brains. To
me
you are very fortunate, you are rich enough to get a boat enjoy it
and
this other man is so poor he must calculate if he can afford one or
not.
As he can not afford it, we really should feel sorry for him.

- Lauri Tarkkonen

Lauri,

You are a trip. So touchy-feely and all that liberal crapola. If it
feels good go it. But have you never stopped to think you could have
taken your investment advisor's advice and invested in something that
would earn you some money instead of something that cost you an arm
and
a leg?

Looks like you are even more cueless than I thought. The first boat I
bought was a racing dinghy in East Africa. Because I was keen to learn
and had more brains than money, I did some work on the boat and won a
number of races (actually some 90% of them) and sold my dinghy with
about a double what I had spent on it, because everybody with more
money
than brains thought that it is nice to own a winning boat, you just
sit
in it and win the next race. Then I came back to Finland, bought my
first 27 foot keelboat and sold it after 5 years with about double of
the price I bought it, the stock marked would have brought me about
20%
if I had done it properly, if I had done it badly I could have lost
everything, but at the meantime I could sail my boat entertain my
friends that would not be possible with the stock, bond or gold.

You can always charter a boat for a week-end if you highly value
a sunset somewhere aboard.

There are not a very good market for chartering, and it is very
difficult to coordinate the weather and the rosy sunset for the
evenings
you charter the boat. Because I have been working in the university I
can administer my summers as I please, so I live in the boat
practically for two and half to three months. If I was forced to chace
the money as you seem to be, then I could afford to sail only for a
weekend or two, but this will not satisfy me.

I am afraind you do not know much about boats. Most of the sailors
have
an idea what kind of boat they do like to sail. The charter companies
supply boats to ignorant people like you. They are suitable for being
kept in the harbour, you can invite your gests, offer them some
champagne, as they have cooling equipment, but they do not sail very
well, you do not get the feeling of beating in heavy weather and the
boat is nicely trimmed and goes high in the wind with some speed. Or
then you are aproaching the harbour in the dying wind, the waves are
not
there the boat just goes, perhaps only 2 to 3 knots, but the silence
of
the nature is beutifull, once a while you hear a familiar bird and you
know when you get to the harbour your wife is going to make a nice
meal.

The best of both worlds can be had with a little sane thinking.

Sorry you are ignorant. There are not boats I like for charters not in
the area I sail and not when I want them. By the way, I have a
interesting project in my boat: Because we had a super warm summer, my
vife wanted a more efficient and bigger refrigerator. After some
thinking I know how it can be done, I have the cooling equipment and
the
materials, when I get time to really do it, I will. To solve these
kind
of problems could give some satisfaction to someone. Of course you can
get your satisfaction by earning another million, but if you can only
sail for a weekend and you can not afford a boat you like for
yourself,
I think you are quite poor.

I can tell from your posts that you are quite impoverished.

I know that the governement does not pay very much, but as a professor
of statistics I have a quite interesting and satisfying job and if I
do
not retire within a couple of months, i will do it within a year, and
I
have paid for my house, car and boat have a bit money in the bank, so
I
do not have to ask if I can afford to have the boat I like or if I can
afford to sail it.

People who say it's dangerous to have more money than brains usually
have less brains than usual. You can NEVER have too much money.
Just like you can never have too much fun.

I guess I have been working for some 40 years in a field asking for
brains, and done decently so I believe I have enough of them. I have
enough money to get what I need, but seems to me, you do not have, as
the money is an issue for you.

But, you do sound kinda cute. Do you have a nice figure? Are you 35 or
under? Do you have all your teeth? Can you read a compass. Post a link
to a picture if you're attractive. I'll take you out on my (paid for)
boat (a Swan 68) and we can have a sunset all to ourselves. I live
like
a king. You can be queen for a day.
How's about it honey?

Perhaps you are gay, I am not, so I do not see much point in your
offer.
I can read a compas, splice ropes and wire, install electronics and
repair and trim sails and be a very usefull hand on a boat, but as I
said I can afford to sail the boats I like. Swan 68 is a nice boat,
but
I am afraid i would not buy it even if had the money, i can admit I do
not have it, one reason being that I choose a career accoring to my
interest not the economic appeal. So I do not have to prostitute
myself
now.

- Lauri Tarkkonen


I withdraw my offer. But with a name like Lauri you must get mistaken
for a woman all the time. Do yourself a favor. Change it to Larry or
something male, please.

Wilbur Hubbard

Lauri Tarkkonen wrote:


Lauri,
Get a clue..you're responding to a trolling sock...this is who you're
responding to:

http://captneal.homestead.com/index.html

Got to go. Time to smoke a fine cigar and make love with one of my many
female companions who love the life wealth can give them...

Wilbur Hubbard

Careful, Captain Kneel -- penicillin can't cure everything these days.

In "Wilbur Hubbard" writes:


"NE Sailboat" wrote in message
news:a4hMh.13718$dG.4000@trndny08...
Where are you getting these figures? $100 thousand dollars for a boat
that needs $20 thousand in fitting out expenses?
I don't know where you sail but where I sail your figures are nuts!


I'm talking about a new boat. Not a used boat. New boats come pretty
bare. By the time you get all the things you need you can easily spend
twenty grand. You need anchors, chain, rode, extra sails, epirb, radios,
GPSs, depth/wind instuments, radar, refrigerator, extra batteries, solar
panels, wind generators, petroleum generator, air conditioner,
autopilot, bimini, dodger, and on and on and on. Price some of that
stuff and you'll probably agree 20K is rather conservative.

If you can not afford it, or if the cost go over your pain treshold,
then to me, it is stupid to buy it in the first hand. If you bought it
only to brag about it to your friends (do you have any?) or your
relatives or your business competition, then why are you complaining?


Most of the folks near me own their boats. They have owned their
boats for years, in some cases generations.

But, many financed them and paid more than twice what their boats are
worth because of interest on long-term loans.

But if this was the only way in their case to get the boat they wanted
when they wanted and where they wanted, so it is the cost you pay. If
another boat for some other people made a better deal, so do it.


They hang on a mooring which they also "own". Pay $65 per year in
mooring fee to the town.

More boats pay for slips. Moorings are much smarter.

In Sweden they say: If it tastes, it wil cost you. So if you do not want
to pay for the slip, then go to the mooring, if you do not accept
moorings, they pay for the slip and stop whining.

They all brag that the first fill up of the season is the last fill up
of the season as they have little diesels .

Good to hear but that isn't the typical sailboater of today who motors
most of the time and unrolls a head sail on perfect days to try to fool
himself and others that he's a sailor.

Again we have people with more money than brains. If they do not like to
sail or if they do not want to sail or if they do not know how to sail,
why are they buying a sailing boat. If you buy the mast just for show,
then you pay for it, and shut up.

Everybody hauls out, this is New England. Runs around $1,000 for
haul, store, launch. But, they all work on their boats, have a great
time doing that, meet all kinds of interesting folks, the family gets
to do something worthwhile together, etc.

Money, money, money. You don't store for free. Dry storage is almost
expensive as a slip many places.

Seems to me, you have an obsession to money. Poor you. Seems to me that
many sailors are rich enough to pay for their boats and slips and
moorings and repairs, without whining about it. Perhaps you could get a
cheaper hobby?

After 10 years, 20 years or 30 years .............. they get to sit
around on a beautiful evening ,, light breeze, the smell of the ocean,
rigging singing in the wind, and they talk about friends, family, old
times, places they have sailed to, the time they almost sunk, the
anchorage with the seal, or the great little cafe with the pancakes,
and then they talk about the sailors who are gone ... the mom's and
dad's and brothers and sisters, uncles, the smartest person who ever
lived; my aunt.

Yah yah yah. All that maudlin family smooze! I want none of it. When you
get old and are pre-occupied with the "good old days" and discuss all
your aches and pains ad nausea then you might as well get a room at the
old folks home where you can hear it 24/7.

If you are not interested, why come here and whine to us about it?

How much is that worth? $100,000? $200,000? A million?

You can have your cake and eat it too. That's the point. Don't waste
your money on financing, marinas, insurance, and all that crap where you
let others reach right into your pocket and rob you poor.

Are you seriously believing that there is a free lunch? Do you really
believe that if the industry aroung charter boating is making a profit,
I could sail cheaper with the boat I want, where I want and when I want
cheaper than if I cut them away? Looks like your business education has
fallen short or there is something wrong in your brains.

I pitty anyone who spends his time counting his money rather than
counting his blessings.

I can count my blessings better than you because I can afford a more
expensive caluclator.

It is not the price of the calculator, it is if you know how to use it.

A few years back I was bicycle touring way up in norther Vermont. I
stopped in a little coffee place, sat at the table, had one of the
best pieces of pie on earth. An old farmer came in, sat down next to
me. We got to talking about this and that.

I said to him maybe I shouldn't have spent so much on my bicycle.

He looked at me and said "money is like blood, doesn't do anyone any
good unless it is circulating".

Circulating is different than bleeding it out on the ground which is
exactly what you do to it when you finance a boat long term and when you
pay to keep it in a marina, etc.

Moat of us keep a boat in a marina or a yacht club. In the no profit
yacht clubs many of us work for the common benefit and get to know some
nice people in the process. Even the charter boats are kept in some
marinas, who pays for them?

Pretty sound thinking.

Sound like it makes sense but it's incomplete.

Not as badly as yours.

I am not rich, and yes, I probably do spend more on my boat than I
should. So what.

Knock yourself out but don't go around telling everybody how great an
investment your boat is because it's a crappy investment. Justify it
simply the way you did above. Come right and say it's a lousy investment
in monetary terms but the social benefits help ease the pain.

I dare to say, that I would need much more money to do my sailing
chartering the boat, either I had to cut down on the time, the location
would not be the one I prefer and the boats would not be such I would
enjoy sailing them as much.

It beats sitting around looking at the Wall St Journal.

Not if what you see in the Journal tells you you just made ten grand in
the last week. . .

Do you happen to know that most of uss get only 24 hours per day to
spend, you cannot buy more hours with your grand, we have certain number
of days to live, but I am afraid the stress and trouble in making this
grand will reduce the number of your days more than you can buy with it.

And, I don't think I ever met a man yet that said to me "remember the
september ... issue of the Wall St Journal ... that was a great time
wasn't it ... sure wish old .... was here so we could read it again".

Why would anybody do that? It's better to enjoy the wealth and dwell on
how it's growth progressed.

You are free to enjoy your wealth, but seems to me, you do not have
enough to afford your sailing without it causing you some pain.

Got to go. Time to smoke a fine cigar and make love with one of my many
female companions who love the life wealth can give them...

If you believe that buyin love and sex, I hope you will be happy with
it, we go sailing and some or our girlfriends come along, becaue they
like us, not only our money.

- Lauri Tarkkonen

"Lauri Tarkkonen" wrote in message
...
In "Wilbur Hubbard"
writes:
snip..
.. Swan 68 is a nice boat, but
I am afraid i would not buy it even if had the money, i can admit I do
not have it, one reason being that I choose a career accoring to my
interest not the economic appeal. So I do not have to prostitute myself
now.

- Lauri Tarkkonen

Wilbur Hubbard


Capt Neil has a 26' Coronado, mustard yellow in colour with a passion
purple interior.
No self respecting woman would step aboard so he's hoping for a buff young
male.

In "Wilbur Hubbard" writes:


"Lauri Tarkkonen" wrote in message
...
In "Wilbur Hubbard"
writes:


"Lauri Tarkkonen" wrote in message
...
In "KLC Lewis"
writes:


wrote in message
...
Net loss of 270K. You pay 27 thousand dollars a year to use your
boat
a dozen or so weekends a year. Stupid, just plain stupid!

Think about it.

Wilbur Hubbard

Now Wilbur do the math if the idiot did not purchased a boat.
Show with concrete evidence what happened to the 270K that what
not
spend
buying and maintaining a boat.


"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in
message
...
The average idiot buys a boat for say 100K and finances it for
ten
years. He fits it out and keeps it in a slip. The fitting out
costs 20K,
the slip costs 5K per year, the insurance costs 1K a year.
Haulout
for
bottom paint 1K a year. Fuel 1/2K a year.

After ten years the idiot has spent 250K paying back the loan,
20K
fitting out, 50K slip fee, 10K insurance, 10K haulout, 5K fuel,
oil,
filters, etc.

345K invested in a 100K boat that perhaps can be sold in ten
years
for
75K. Net loss of 270K. You pay 27 thousand dollars a year to use
your
boat a dozen or so weekends a year. Stupid, just plain stupid!

Think about it.

Wilbur Hubbard

As for me and Essie, I paid cash for her (all of $8,000) and have
probably
put another $15,000 into new sails, rigging, instruments, anchors
and
other
improvements over the past 6 years. I pay about $3,000 per year on
summer
slip / winter storage. Insurance is about $350 per year. Fuel? I
haven't
bought any for years -- I probably burn about $10 worth in a season,
since
the motor rarely runs and only burns about a quart an hour. Haulout
for
bottom paint? Hauling out happens every October, as close to
Halloween
as I
can manage. I repaint the bottom, if needed, before splashing in the
spring
(one month from today) and isn't an extra expense. But everywhere
I've
been
where bottom painting requires special haul-out, it happens every
three
years or so, and costs about $500. Even if it's a grand, it's not a
grand
every year.

What's she worth today? I can't say. I wouldn't sell her for rubies.
If I go
broke and bankrupt and lose 'most everything I own, I will still
have
my
boat which will be my only home. People go to bars and pay $5.00 for
a
drink
which passes right through them after stealing their brain for a
spell. To
me, THAT is a waste of money. Whatever floats y'er boat, mate!

We all know that it is dangerous to have more money than brains. To
me
you are very fortunate, you are rich enough to get a boat enjoy it
and
this other man is so poor he must calculate if he can afford one or
not.
As he can not afford it, we really should feel sorry for him.

- Lauri Tarkkonen

Lauri,

You are a trip. So touchy-feely and all that liberal crapola. If it
feels good go it. But have you never stopped to think you could have
taken your investment advisor's advice and invested in something that
would earn you some money instead of something that cost you an arm
and
a leg?

Looks like you are even more cueless than I thought. The first boat I
bought was a racing dinghy in East Africa. Because I was keen to learn
and had more brains than money, I did some work on the boat and won a
number of races (actually some 90% of them) and sold my dinghy with
about a double what I had spent on it, because everybody with more
money
than brains thought that it is nice to own a winning boat, you just
sit
in it and win the next race. Then I came back to Finland, bought my
first 27 foot keelboat and sold it after 5 years with about double of
the price I bought it, the stock marked would have brought me about
20%
if I had done it properly, if I had done it badly I could have lost
everything, but at the meantime I could sail my boat entertain my
friends that would not be possible with the stock, bond or gold.

You can always charter a boat for a week-end if you highly value
a sunset somewhere aboard.

There are not a very good market for chartering, and it is very
difficult to coordinate the weather and the rosy sunset for the
evenings
you charter the boat. Because I have been working in the university I
can administer my summers as I please, so I live in the boat
practically for two and half to three months. If I was forced to chace
the money as you seem to be, then I could afford to sail only for a
weekend or two, but this will not satisfy me.

I am afraind you do not know much about boats. Most of the sailors
have
an idea what kind of boat they do like to sail. The charter companies
supply boats to ignorant people like you. They are suitable for being
kept in the harbour, you can invite your gests, offer them some
champagne, as they have cooling equipment, but they do not sail very
well, you do not get the feeling of beating in heavy weather and the
boat is nicely trimmed and goes high in the wind with some speed. Or
then you are aproaching the harbour in the dying wind, the waves are
not
there the boat just goes, perhaps only 2 to 3 knots, but the silence
of
the nature is beutifull, once a while you hear a familiar bird and you
know when you get to the harbour your wife is going to make a nice
meal.

The best of both worlds can be had with a little sane thinking.

Sorry you are ignorant. There are not boats I like for charters not in
the area I sail and not when I want them. By the way, I have a
interesting project in my boat: Because we had a super warm summer, my
vife wanted a more efficient and bigger refrigerator. After some
thinking I know how it can be done, I have the cooling equipment and
the
materials, when I get time to really do it, I will. To solve these
kind
of problems could give some satisfaction to someone. Of course you can
get your satisfaction by earning another million, but if you can only
sail for a weekend and you can not afford a boat you like for
yourself,
I think you are quite poor.

I can tell from your posts that you are quite impoverished.

I know that the governement does not pay very much, but as a professor
of statistics I have a quite interesting and satisfying job and if I
do
not retire within a couple of months, i will do it within a year, and
I
have paid for my house, car and boat have a bit money in the bank, so
I
do not have to ask if I can afford to have the boat I like or if I can
afford to sail it.

People who say it's dangerous to have more money than brains usually
have less brains than usual. You can NEVER have too much money.
Just like you can never have too much fun.

I guess I have been working for some 40 years in a field asking for
brains, and done decently so I believe I have enough of them. I have
enough money to get what I need, but seems to me, you do not have, as
the money is an issue for you.

But, you do sound kinda cute. Do you have a nice figure? Are you 35 or
under? Do you have all your teeth? Can you read a compass. Post a link
to a picture if you're attractive. I'll take you out on my (paid for)
boat (a Swan 68) and we can have a sunset all to ourselves. I live
like
a king. You can be queen for a day.
How's about it honey?

Perhaps you are gay, I am not, so I do not see much point in your
offer.
I can read a compas, splice ropes and wire, install electronics and
repair and trim sails and be a very usefull hand on a boat, but as I
said I can afford to sail the boats I like. Swan 68 is a nice boat,
but
I am afraid i would not buy it even if had the money, i can admit I do
not have it, one reason being that I choose a career accoring to my
interest not the economic appeal. So I do not have to prostitute
myself
now.

- Lauri Tarkkonen


I withdraw my offer. But with a name like Lauri you must get mistaken
for a woman all the time. Do yourself a favor. Change it to Larry or
something male, please.

Wilbur Hubbard

I was smart of you to concentrate on the name issue, because you was
proven to be wrong and stupid in all other counts of your post. Your
posts tell me, that either you are a troll, who can not even dream to
have a bot of his own, or you are a complete jerk, who thinks that money
can buy everything and on the other hand you do not know anything about
boats and sailing.

- Lauri Tarkkonen

In katy writes:

Lauri Tarkkonen wrote:


Lauri,
Get a clue..you're responding to a trolling sock...this is who you're
responding to:

http://captneal.homestead.com/index.html

You are right, he really does not know anything about boats and sailing.
Or human decensy, if that is a matter.

- Lauri Tarkkonen

"NE Sailboat" wrote in message
news:AyhMh.13724$dG.11972@trndny08...
"Got to go. Time to smoke a fine cigar and make love with one of my many
female companions who love the life wealth can give them..."

Hey,, are you still leaving the tip under the pillow or is it included in
the credit card?



What..Capt Kneel tip the woman for 2 minutes work? Not likely!

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
...
The average idiot buys a boat for say 100K and finances it for ten years.
He fits it out and keeps it in a slip. The fitting out costs 20K, the slip
costs 5K per year, the insurance costs 1K a year. Haulout for bottom paint
1K a year. Fuel 1/2K a year.

After ten years the idiot has spent 250K paying back the loan, 20K fitting
out, 50K slip fee, 10K insurance, 10K haulout, 5K fuel, oil, filters, etc.

345K invested in a 100K boat that perhaps can be sold in ten years for
75K. Net loss of 270K. You pay 27 thousand dollars a year to use your boat
a dozen or so weekends a year. Stupid, just plain stupid!

Think about it.

Wilbur Hubbard

Think of it in terms of hours spent earning the money. Higher paying jobs
actually pay less per hour than lower paying ones because of the overtime
demands. Most people have no lives except work and 2-3 weeks of vacation.
Their bodies and minds are worn out by the age of 40 from repititive
overwork. Possessions then become trophies for all the hours they have
worked. The unused big fancy yacht, the expensive Weatherby that never hit
its mark, the poorly driven sports car, unused sports gear are all symptoms
of a disease. People now work more hours than in an agrarian society and
have little more to show for it.

Simplicity, simplicity, simplicity. A simple life, free of clutter and
encumbrances does the soul, mind and body good. Learn to appreciate what is
free in life and enjoy walking your own path. No one ever regrets not
working more on their death bed.

Lloyd

Well now, if you had to borrow $100k to buy the boat, you wouldn't have
$100k of that $270k to invest day one , would you? And all of those savings
would not be on day one, would they ? They would average out being on year
5. If we are going to analyze, let's get it right.
Not to say boats are not expensive, but if you use it enough (or not), enjoy
it enough, it may well be worth it. "You can't take it with you."
Why do you post a message such as this HERE ? You might try
rec.beancounters, and expound on all the stupid boaters you have been
listening to.

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
Net loss of 270K. You pay 27 thousand dollars a year to use your boat
a dozen or so weekends a year. Stupid, just plain stupid!

Think about it.

Wilbur Hubbard

Now Wilbur do the math if the idiot did not purchased a boat.
Show with concrete evidence what happened to the 270K that what not spend
buying and maintaining a boat.


If that sum wasn't spent on something else stupid and useless as far as
investment is concerned it could be invested in something that would give
a reasonable return. Things like land, stocks, bonds, gold(in the last ten
years), If you get a 10% return per anum your 270K will be worth 540K in
ten years. In twenty years it makes you a millionaire. So you trade
millionaire status for the privilege of owning a 100K boat?

That's totally insane. . .

Wilbur Hubbard