wrote in message
...
Net loss of 270K. You pay 27 thousand dollars a year to use your boat
a dozen or so weekends a year. Stupid, just plain stupid!

Think about it.

Wilbur Hubbard

Now Wilbur do the math if the idiot did not purchased a boat.
Show with concrete evidence what happened to the 270K that what not spend
buying and maintaining a boat.


"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
...
The average idiot buys a boat for say 100K and finances it for ten
years. He fits it out and keeps it in a slip. The fitting out costs 20K,
the slip costs 5K per year, the insurance costs 1K a year. Haulout for
bottom paint 1K a year. Fuel 1/2K a year.

After ten years the idiot has spent 250K paying back the loan, 20K
fitting out, 50K slip fee, 10K insurance, 10K haulout, 5K fuel, oil,
filters, etc.

345K invested in a 100K boat that perhaps can be sold in ten years for
75K. Net loss of 270K. You pay 27 thousand dollars a year to use your
boat a dozen or so weekends a year. Stupid, just plain stupid!

Think about it.

Wilbur Hubbard

As for me and Essie, I paid cash for her (all of $8,000) and have probably
put another $15,000 into new sails, rigging, instruments, anchors and other
improvements over the past 6 years. I pay about $3,000 per year on summer
slip / winter storage. Insurance is about $350 per year. Fuel? I haven't
bought any for years -- I probably burn about $10 worth in a season, since
the motor rarely runs and only burns about a quart an hour. Haulout for
bottom paint? Hauling out happens every October, as close to Halloween as I
can manage. I repaint the bottom, if needed, before splashing in the spring
(one month from today) and isn't an extra expense. But everywhere I've been
where bottom painting requires special haul-out, it happens every three
years or so, and costs about $500. Even if it's a grand, it's not a grand
every year.

What's she worth today? I can't say. I wouldn't sell her for rubies. If I go
broke and bankrupt and lose 'most everything I own, I will still have my
boat which will be my only home. People go to bars and pay $5.00 for a drink
which passes right through them after stealing their brain for a spell. To
me, THAT is a waste of money. Whatever floats y'er boat, mate!

In "Wilbur Hubbard" writes:


wrote in message
...
Net loss of 270K. You pay 27 thousand dollars a year to use your boat
a dozen or so weekends a year. Stupid, just plain stupid!

Think about it.

Wilbur Hubbard

Now Wilbur do the math if the idiot did not purchased a boat.
Show with concrete evidence what happened to the 270K that what not
spend buying and maintaining a boat.


If that sum wasn't spent on something else stupid and useless as far as
investment is concerned it could be invested in something that would
give a reasonable return. Things like land, stocks, bonds, gold(in the
last ten years), If you get a 10% return per anum your 270K will be
worth 540K in ten years. In twenty years it makes you a millionaire. So
you trade millionaire status for the privilege of owning a 100K boat?

That's totally insane. . .

Wilbur Hubbard

I do not know what gives you the right to call someone with different
preferences than you an idiot.

Long time ago, I bought a small sailing boat, for some amount of money,
my brother in law a financial wizard said: I would not but my money in
boats, I get much better return in buing some stock from the market.
I asked him: How can you sail with the stock? He told me, of course you
do not sail with the stock, but after you sell them I have more money
than you when you sell the boat. I was sailing the boat, enjoying the
sea and the archipelago, even could take him on a ride, that he enjoyed
a lot. Say, whatever you please, I might be stupid to invest the money
in a boat, it does not only give me some days or weeks at the seas, it
gives me dreams in the winter about future sailing trips and nice
memories for the previous ones. Of course you might say that your dreams
about getting more money to be invested in some more stock or gold are
better dreams than mine or your fond memories of keeping the money in
your hand or looking at the balance of your check account might be more
beautifull than mine memories of the perfect sunset in the archipelago.

You may keep your dreams of the $$$$$$, but for many sailors the dollars
have any value only if they can be used to buy the memories of a perfect
sailing trip. So you might feel you are a better human being as you have
more dollars than me, but I was able to provide the brother in law an
unforgettable experience in my sailing boat, that he could not do for
me, as I did not get more kicks of looking at his bank statement than I
wold get bu looking of my own.

You may still call us idiots, but we are happy idiots, but I know many
people thinking your way, and they are unhappy, as they are afraid that
the value of their stock will just evaporate, but I know that my fond
memories will be there for ever. When I die, I have at least had the
experience and my children might come to **** on my grave for spending
my money in a sailing boat and not leaving them piles of $$$$$. By the
way, they are not sailors, but they have told that they give much value
of the days they have spent on sea with me in my boat, and they do not
need any money from me.

- Lauri Tarkkonen

In "KLC Lewis" writes:


wrote in message
...
Net loss of 270K. You pay 27 thousand dollars a year to use your boat
a dozen or so weekends a year. Stupid, just plain stupid!

Think about it.

Wilbur Hubbard

Now Wilbur do the math if the idiot did not purchased a boat.
Show with concrete evidence what happened to the 270K that what not spend
buying and maintaining a boat.


"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
...
The average idiot buys a boat for say 100K and finances it for ten
years. He fits it out and keeps it in a slip. The fitting out costs 20K,
the slip costs 5K per year, the insurance costs 1K a year. Haulout for
bottom paint 1K a year. Fuel 1/2K a year.

After ten years the idiot has spent 250K paying back the loan, 20K
fitting out, 50K slip fee, 10K insurance, 10K haulout, 5K fuel, oil,
filters, etc.

345K invested in a 100K boat that perhaps can be sold in ten years for
75K. Net loss of 270K. You pay 27 thousand dollars a year to use your
boat a dozen or so weekends a year. Stupid, just plain stupid!

Think about it.

Wilbur Hubbard

As for me and Essie, I paid cash for her (all of $8,000) and have probably
put another $15,000 into new sails, rigging, instruments, anchors and other
improvements over the past 6 years. I pay about $3,000 per year on summer
slip / winter storage. Insurance is about $350 per year. Fuel? I haven't
bought any for years -- I probably burn about $10 worth in a season, since
the motor rarely runs and only burns about a quart an hour. Haulout for
bottom paint? Hauling out happens every October, as close to Halloween as I
can manage. I repaint the bottom, if needed, before splashing in the spring
(one month from today) and isn't an extra expense. But everywhere I've been
where bottom painting requires special haul-out, it happens every three
years or so, and costs about $500. Even if it's a grand, it's not a grand
every year.

What's she worth today? I can't say. I wouldn't sell her for rubies. If I go
broke and bankrupt and lose 'most everything I own, I will still have my
boat which will be my only home. People go to bars and pay $5.00 for a drink
which passes right through them after stealing their brain for a spell. To
me, THAT is a waste of money. Whatever floats y'er boat, mate!

We all know that it is dangerous to have more money than brains. To me
you are very fortunate, you are rich enough to get a boat enjoy it and
this other man is so poor he must calculate if he can afford one or not.
As he can not afford it, we really should feel sorry for him.

- Lauri Tarkkonen

Where are you getting these figures? $100 thousand dollars for a boat that
needs $20 thousand in fitting out expenses?
I don't know where you sail but where I sail your figures are nuts!

Most of the folks near me own their boats. They have owned their boats for
years, in some cases generations.

They hang on a mooring which they also "own". Pay $65 per year in mooring
fee to the town.

They all brag that the first fill up of the season is the last fill up of
the season as they have little diesels .

Everybody hauls out, this is New England. Runs around $1,000 for haul,
store, launch. But, they all work on their boats, have a great time doing
that, meet all kinds of interesting folks, the family gets to do something
worthwhile together, etc.

After 10 years, 20 years or 30 years .............. they get to sit around
on a beautiful evening ,, light breeze, the smell of the ocean,
rigging singing in the wind, and they talk about friends, family, old times,
places they have sailed to, the time they almost sunk, the anchorage with
the seal, or the great little cafe with the pancakes, and then they talk
about the sailors who are gone ... the mom's and dad's and brothers and
sisters, uncles, the smartest person who ever lived; my aunt.

How much is that worth? $100,000? $200,000? A million?

I pitty anyone who spends his time counting his money rather than counting
his blessings.

A few years back I was bicycle touring way up in norther Vermont. I stopped
in a little coffee place, sat at the table, had one of the
best pieces of pie on earth. An old farmer came in, sat down next to me.
We got to talking about this and that.

I said to him maybe I shouldn't have spent so much on my bicycle.

He looked at me and said "money is like blood, doesn't do anyone any good
unless it is circulating".

Pretty sound thinking.

I am not rich, and yes, I probably do spend more on my boat than I should.
So what.

It beats sitting around looking at the Wall St Journal.

And, I don't think I ever met a man yet that said to me "remember the
september ... issue of the Wall St Journal ... that was a great time wasn't
it ... sure wish old .... was here so we could read it again".

Got to go .. time to turn on Ebay. I'm looking to buy a few things for the
boat!

================================================== ======



"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
...
The average idiot buys a boat for say 100K and finances it for ten years.
He fits it out and keeps it in a slip. The fitting out costs 20K, the slip
costs 5K per year, the insurance costs 1K a year. Haulout for bottom paint
1K a year. Fuel 1/2K a year.

After ten years the idiot has spent 250K paying back the loan, 20K fitting
out, 50K slip fee, 10K insurance, 10K haulout, 5K fuel, oil, filters, etc.

345K invested in a 100K boat that perhaps can be sold in ten years for
75K. Net loss of 270K. You pay 27 thousand dollars a year to use your boat
a dozen or so weekends a year. Stupid, just plain stupid!

Think about it.

Wilbur Hubbard

"Lauri Tarkkonen" wrote in message
...
In "KLC Lewis"
writes:


wrote in message
...
Net loss of 270K. You pay 27 thousand dollars a year to use your
boat
a dozen or so weekends a year. Stupid, just plain stupid!

Think about it.

Wilbur Hubbard

Now Wilbur do the math if the idiot did not purchased a boat.
Show with concrete evidence what happened to the 270K that what not
spend
buying and maintaining a boat.


"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
...
The average idiot buys a boat for say 100K and finances it for ten
years. He fits it out and keeps it in a slip. The fitting out
costs 20K,
the slip costs 5K per year, the insurance costs 1K a year. Haulout
for
bottom paint 1K a year. Fuel 1/2K a year.

After ten years the idiot has spent 250K paying back the loan, 20K
fitting out, 50K slip fee, 10K insurance, 10K haulout, 5K fuel,
oil,
filters, etc.

345K invested in a 100K boat that perhaps can be sold in ten years
for
75K. Net loss of 270K. You pay 27 thousand dollars a year to use
your
boat a dozen or so weekends a year. Stupid, just plain stupid!

Think about it.

Wilbur Hubbard

As for me and Essie, I paid cash for her (all of $8,000) and have
probably
put another $15,000 into new sails, rigging, instruments, anchors and
other
improvements over the past 6 years. I pay about $3,000 per year on
summer
slip / winter storage. Insurance is about $350 per year. Fuel? I
haven't
bought any for years -- I probably burn about $10 worth in a season,
since
the motor rarely runs and only burns about a quart an hour. Haulout
for
bottom paint? Hauling out happens every October, as close to Halloween
as I
can manage. I repaint the bottom, if needed, before splashing in the
spring
(one month from today) and isn't an extra expense. But everywhere I've
been
where bottom painting requires special haul-out, it happens every
three
years or so, and costs about $500. Even if it's a grand, it's not a
grand
every year.

What's she worth today? I can't say. I wouldn't sell her for rubies.
If I go
broke and bankrupt and lose 'most everything I own, I will still have
my
boat which will be my only home. People go to bars and pay $5.00 for a
drink
which passes right through them after stealing their brain for a
spell. To
me, THAT is a waste of money. Whatever floats y'er boat, mate!

We all know that it is dangerous to have more money than brains. To me
you are very fortunate, you are rich enough to get a boat enjoy it and
this other man is so poor he must calculate if he can afford one or
not.
As he can not afford it, we really should feel sorry for him.

- Lauri Tarkkonen

Lauri,

You are a trip. So touchy-feely and all that liberal crapola. If it
feels good go it. But have you never stopped to think you could have
taken your investment advisor's advice and invested in something that
would earn you some money instead of something that cost you an arm and
a leg? You can always charter a boat for a week-end if you highly value
a sunset somewhere aboard. The best of both worlds can be had with a
little sane thinking. I can tell from your posts that you are quite
impoverished. People who say it's dangerous to have more money than
brains usually have less brains than usual. You can NEVER have too much
money. Just like you can never have too much fun.

But, you do sound kinda cute. Do you have a nice figure? Are you 35 or
under? Do you have all your teeth? Can you read a compass. Post a link
to a picture if you're attractive. I'll take you out on my (paid for)
boat (a Swan 68) and we can have a sunset all to ourselves. I live like
a king. You can be queen for a day.
How's about it honey?

Wilbur Hubbard

Wilbur Hubbard inscribed in red ink for all to know:

"Lauri Tarkkonen" wrote in message
...

In "KLC Lewis"
writes:


wrote in message
...

Net loss of 270K. You pay 27 thousand dollars a year to use your boat

a dozen or so weekends a year. Stupid, just plain stupid!

Think about it.

Wilbur Hubbard


Now Wilbur do the math if the idiot did not purchased a boat.
Show with concrete evidence what happened to the 270K that what not
spend
buying and maintaining a boat.


"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
...

The average idiot buys a boat for say 100K and finances it for ten
years. He fits it out and keeps it in a slip. The fitting out
costs 20K,
the slip costs 5K per year, the insurance costs 1K a year. Haulout
for
bottom paint 1K a year. Fuel 1/2K a year.

After ten years the idiot has spent 250K paying back the loan, 20K
fitting out, 50K slip fee, 10K insurance, 10K haulout, 5K fuel, oil,
filters, etc.

345K invested in a 100K boat that perhaps can be sold in ten years
for
75K. Net loss of 270K. You pay 27 thousand dollars a year to use your
boat a dozen or so weekends a year. Stupid, just plain stupid!

Think about it.

Wilbur Hubbard


As for me and Essie, I paid cash for her (all of $8,000) and have
probably
put another $15,000 into new sails, rigging, instruments, anchors and
other
improvements over the past 6 years. I pay about $3,000 per year on
summer
slip / winter storage. Insurance is about $350 per year. Fuel? I haven't
bought any for years -- I probably burn about $10 worth in a season,
since
the motor rarely runs and only burns about a quart an hour. Haulout for
bottom paint? Hauling out happens every October, as close to
Halloween as I
can manage. I repaint the bottom, if needed, before splashing in the
spring
(one month from today) and isn't an extra expense. But everywhere
I've been
where bottom painting requires special haul-out, it happens every three
years or so, and costs about $500. Even if it's a grand, it's not a
grand
every year.


What's she worth today? I can't say. I wouldn't sell her for rubies.
If I go
broke and bankrupt and lose 'most everything I own, I will still have my
boat which will be my only home. People go to bars and pay $5.00 for
a drink
which passes right through them after stealing their brain for a
spell. To
me, THAT is a waste of money. Whatever floats y'er boat, mate!


We all know that it is dangerous to have more money than brains. To me
you are very fortunate, you are rich enough to get a boat enjoy it and
this other man is so poor he must calculate if he can afford one or not.
As he can not afford it, we really should feel sorry for him.

- Lauri Tarkkonen


Lauri,

You are a trip. So touchy-feely and all that liberal crapola. If it
feels good go it. But have you never stopped to think you could have
taken your investment advisor's advice and invested in something that
would earn you some money instead of something that cost you an arm and
a leg? You can always charter a boat for a week-end if you highly value
a sunset somewhere aboard. The best of both worlds can be had with a
little sane thinking. I can tell from your posts that you are quite
impoverished. People who say it's dangerous to have more money than
brains usually have less brains than usual. You can NEVER have too much
money. Just like you can never have too much fun.

But, you do sound kinda cute. Do you have a nice figure? Are you 35 or
under? Do you have all your teeth? Can you read a compass. Post a link
to a picture if you're attractive. I'll take you out on my (paid for)
boat (a Swan 68) and we can have a sunset all to ourselves. I live like
a king. You can be queen for a day.
How's about it honey?

Wilbur Hubbard

An American businessman was at a pier in a small coastal Mexican village
when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. Inside the small boat
were several large yellow-fin tuna. The American complimented the
Mexican on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them.

"Only a little while, senor," replied the Mexican.

The American then asked, "why didn't you stay out longer and catch more
fish?"

The Mexican explained that he had enough to support his family's
immediate needs.

The American then asked the Mexican how he spent the rest of his time.

The Mexican fisherman said, "I sleep late, fish a little, play with my
children, take siesta with my wife, stroll into the village each evening
where I sip wine and play guitar with my amigos. I have a full life..."

The American interrupted, "I am a Harvard MBA and could help you. You
should spend more time fishing and, with the proceeds, buy a bigger
boat. With the proceeds from the bigger boat, you could buy several
boats. Eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats. Instead of
selling your catch to a middleman you would sell directly to the
processor, eventually opening your own cannery. You would control the
product, processing and distribution."

"You could then leave this small coastal fishing village and move to
Mexico City, then LA and eventually NYC where you will run your
expanding enterprise."

Then the Mexican fisherman interrupted, "but senor, how long will this
all take?"

The American replied, "15-20 years."

"But what then, senor?" asked the Mexican.

The American laughed, and said, "that's the best part! When the time is
right, you would announce an IPO and sell your company stock to the
public. You'll become very rich, you would make millions!"

"Millions, senor?" replied the Mexican. "Then what?"

"Then you could retire, move to a small coastal fishing village where
you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take siesta
with your wife, stroll into the village in the evenings where you would
sip wine and play guitar with your amigos."


bob
s/v Eolian
Seattle

"NE Sailboat" wrote in message
news:a4hMh.13718$dG.4000@trndny08...
Where are you getting these figures? $100 thousand dollars for a boat
that needs $20 thousand in fitting out expenses?
I don't know where you sail but where I sail your figures are nuts!


I'm talking about a new boat. Not a used boat. New boats come pretty
bare. By the time you get all the things you need you can easily spend
twenty grand. You need anchors, chain, rode, extra sails, epirb, radios,
GPSs, depth/wind instuments, radar, refrigerator, extra batteries, solar
panels, wind generators, petroleum generator, air conditioner,
autopilot, bimini, dodger, and on and on and on. Price some of that
stuff and you'll probably agree 20K is rather conservative.


Most of the folks near me own their boats. They have owned their
boats for years, in some cases generations.

But, many financed them and paid more than twice what their boats are
worth because of interest on long-term loans.


They hang on a mooring which they also "own". Pay $65 per year in
mooring fee to the town.

More boats pay for slips. Moorings are much smarter.

They all brag that the first fill up of the season is the last fill up
of the season as they have little diesels .

Good to hear but that isn't the typical sailboater of today who motors
most of the time and unrolls a head sail on perfect days to try to fool
himself and others that he's a sailor.

Everybody hauls out, this is New England. Runs around $1,000 for
haul, store, launch. But, they all work on their boats, have a great
time doing that, meet all kinds of interesting folks, the family gets
to do something worthwhile together, etc.

Money, money, money. You don't store for free. Dry storage is almost
expensive as a slip many places.


After 10 years, 20 years or 30 years .............. they get to sit
around on a beautiful evening ,, light breeze, the smell of the ocean,
rigging singing in the wind, and they talk about friends, family, old
times, places they have sailed to, the time they almost sunk, the
anchorage with the seal, or the great little cafe with the pancakes,
and then they talk about the sailors who are gone ... the mom's and
dad's and brothers and sisters, uncles, the smartest person who ever
lived; my aunt.

Yah yah yah. All that maudlin family smooze! I want none of it. When you
get old and are pre-occupied with the "good old days" and discuss all
your aches and pains ad nausea then you might as well get a room at the
old folks home where you can hear it 24/7.


How much is that worth? $100,000? $200,000? A million?

You can have your cake and eat it too. That's the point. Don't waste
your money on financing, marinas, insurance, and all that crap where you
let others reach right into your pocket and rob you poor.

I pitty anyone who spends his time counting his money rather than
counting his blessings.

I can count my blessings better than you because I can afford a more
expensive caluclator.


A few years back I was bicycle touring way up in norther Vermont. I
stopped in a little coffee place, sat at the table, had one of the
best pieces of pie on earth. An old farmer came in, sat down next to
me. We got to talking about this and that.

I said to him maybe I shouldn't have spent so much on my bicycle.

He looked at me and said "money is like blood, doesn't do anyone any
good unless it is circulating".

Circulating is different than bleeding it out on the ground which is
exactly what you do to it when you finance a boat long term and when you
pay to keep it in a marina, etc.


Pretty sound thinking.

Sound like it makes sense but it's incomplete.

I am not rich, and yes, I probably do spend more on my boat than I
should. So what.

Knock yourself out but don't go around telling everybody how great an
investment your boat is because it's a crappy investment. Justify it
simply the way you did above. Come right and say it's a lousy investment
in monetary terms but the social benefits help ease the pain.

It beats sitting around looking at the Wall St Journal.

Not if what you see in the Journal tells you you just made ten grand in
the last week. . .

And, I don't think I ever met a man yet that said to me "remember the
september ... issue of the Wall St Journal ... that was a great time
wasn't it ... sure wish old .... was here so we could read it again".

Why would anybody do that? It's better to enjoy the wealth and dwell on
how it's growth progressed.

Got to go. Time to smoke a fine cigar and make love with one of my many
female companions who love the life wealth can give them...

Wilbur Hubbard

Wilbur ..

"You need anchors, chain, rode, extra sails, epirb, radios,
GPSs, depth/wind instuments, radar, refrigerator, extra batteries, solar
panels, wind generators, petroleum generator, air conditioner,
autopilot, bimini, dodger, and on and on and on. Price some of that
stuff and you'll probably agree 20K is rather conservative."

I need most of that and my boat is 32 years old!

Holy ****!

Ebay .. gotta get on that Ebay!


===========

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
...

"NE Sailboat" wrote in message
news:a4hMh.13718$dG.4000@trndny08...
Where are you getting these figures? $100 thousand dollars for a boat
that needs $20 thousand in fitting out expenses?
I don't know where you sail but where I sail your figures are nuts!


I'm talking about a new boat. Not a used boat. New boats come pretty bare.
By the time you get all the things you need you can easily spend twenty
grand. You need anchors, chain, rode, extra sails, epirb, radios, GPSs,
depth/wind instuments, radar, refrigerator, extra batteries, solar panels,
wind generators, petroleum generator, air conditioner, autopilot, bimini,
dodger, and on and on and on. Price some of that stuff and you'll probably
agree 20K is rather conservative.


Most of the folks near me own their boats. They have owned their boats
for years, in some cases generations.

But, many financed them and paid more than twice what their boats are
worth because of interest on long-term loans.


They hang on a mooring which they also "own". Pay $65 per year in
mooring fee to the town.

More boats pay for slips. Moorings are much smarter.

They all brag that the first fill up of the season is the last fill up of
the season as they have little diesels .

Good to hear but that isn't the typical sailboater of today who motors
most of the time and unrolls a head sail on perfect days to try to fool
himself and others that he's a sailor.

Everybody hauls out, this is New England. Runs around $1,000 for haul,
store, launch. But, they all work on their boats, have a great time
doing that, meet all kinds of interesting folks, the family gets to do
something worthwhile together, etc.

Money, money, money. You don't store for free. Dry storage is almost
expensive as a slip many places.


After 10 years, 20 years or 30 years .............. they get to sit
around on a beautiful evening ,, light breeze, the smell of the ocean,
rigging singing in the wind, and they talk about friends, family, old
times, places they have sailed to, the time they almost sunk, the
anchorage with the seal, or the great little cafe with the pancakes, and
then they talk about the sailors who are gone ... the mom's and dad's and
brothers and sisters, uncles, the smartest person who ever lived; my
aunt.

Yah yah yah. All that maudlin family smooze! I want none of it. When you
get old and are pre-occupied with the "good old days" and discuss all your
aches and pains ad nausea then you might as well get a room at the old
folks home where you can hear it 24/7.


How much is that worth? $100,000? $200,000? A million?

You can have your cake and eat it too. That's the point. Don't waste your
money on financing, marinas, insurance, and all that crap where you let
others reach right into your pocket and rob you poor.

I pitty anyone who spends his time counting his money rather than
counting his blessings.

I can count my blessings better than you because I can afford a more
expensive caluclator.


A few years back I was bicycle touring way up in norther Vermont. I
stopped in a little coffee place, sat at the table, had one of the
best pieces of pie on earth. An old farmer came in, sat down next to me.
We got to talking about this and that.

I said to him maybe I shouldn't have spent so much on my bicycle.

He looked at me and said "money is like blood, doesn't do anyone any good
unless it is circulating".

Circulating is different than bleeding it out on the ground which is
exactly what you do to it when you finance a boat long term and when you
pay to keep it in a marina, etc.


Pretty sound thinking.

Sound like it makes sense but it's incomplete.

I am not rich, and yes, I probably do spend more on my boat than I
should. So what.

Knock yourself out but don't go around telling everybody how great an
investment your boat is because it's a crappy investment. Justify it
simply the way you did above. Come right and say it's a lousy investment
in monetary terms but the social benefits help ease the pain.

It beats sitting around looking at the Wall St Journal.

Not if what you see in the Journal tells you you just made ten grand in
the last week. . .

And, I don't think I ever met a man yet that said to me "remember the
september ... issue of the Wall St Journal ... that was a great time
wasn't it ... sure wish old .... was here so we could read it again".

Why would anybody do that? It's better to enjoy the wealth and dwell on
how it's growth progressed.

Got to go. Time to smoke a fine cigar and make love with one of my many
female companions who love the life wealth can give them...

Wilbur Hubbard

"Got to go. Time to smoke a fine cigar and make love with one of my many
female companions who love the life wealth can give them..."

Hey,, are you still leaving the tip under the pillow or is it included in
the credit card?

================================================== =========

Wilbur Hubbard

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
...

"NE Sailboat" wrote in message
news:a4hMh.13718$dG.4000@trndny08...
Where are you getting these figures? $100 thousand dollars for a boat
that needs $20 thousand in fitting out expenses?
I don't know where you sail but where I sail your figures are nuts!


I'm talking about a new boat. Not a used boat. New boats come pretty bare.
By the time you get all the things you need you can easily spend twenty
grand. You need anchors, chain, rode, extra sails, epirb, radios, GPSs,
depth/wind instuments, radar, refrigerator, extra batteries, solar panels,
wind generators, petroleum generator, air conditioner, autopilot, bimini,
dodger, and on and on and on. Price some of that stuff and you'll probably
agree 20K is rather conservative.


Most of the folks near me own their boats. They have owned their boats
for years, in some cases generations.

But, many financed them and paid more than twice what their boats are
worth because of interest on long-term loans.


They hang on a mooring which they also "own". Pay $65 per year in
mooring fee to the town.

More boats pay for slips. Moorings are much smarter.

They all brag that the first fill up of the season is the last fill up of
the season as they have little diesels .

Good to hear but that isn't the typical sailboater of today who motors
most of the time and unrolls a head sail on perfect days to try to fool
himself and others that he's a sailor.

Everybody hauls out, this is New England. Runs around $1,000 for haul,
store, launch. But, they all work on their boats, have a great time
doing that, meet all kinds of interesting folks, the family gets to do
something worthwhile together, etc.

Money, money, money. You don't store for free. Dry storage is almost
expensive as a slip many places.


After 10 years, 20 years or 30 years .............. they get to sit
around on a beautiful evening ,, light breeze, the smell of the ocean,
rigging singing in the wind, and they talk about friends, family, old
times, places they have sailed to, the time they almost sunk, the
anchorage with the seal, or the great little cafe with the pancakes, and
then they talk about the sailors who are gone ... the mom's and dad's and
brothers and sisters, uncles, the smartest person who ever lived; my
aunt.

Yah yah yah. All that maudlin family smooze! I want none of it. When you
get old and are pre-occupied with the "good old days" and discuss all your
aches and pains ad nausea then you might as well get a room at the old
folks home where you can hear it 24/7.


How much is that worth? $100,000? $200,000? A million?

You can have your cake and eat it too. That's the point. Don't waste your
money on financing, marinas, insurance, and all that crap where you let
others reach right into your pocket and rob you poor.

I pitty anyone who spends his time counting his money rather than
counting his blessings.

I can count my blessings better than you because I can afford a more
expensive caluclator.


A few years back I was bicycle touring way up in norther Vermont. I
stopped in a little coffee place, sat at the table, had one of the
best pieces of pie on earth. An old farmer came in, sat down next to me.
We got to talking about this and that.

I said to him maybe I shouldn't have spent so much on my bicycle.

He looked at me and said "money is like blood, doesn't do anyone any good
unless it is circulating".

Circulating is different than bleeding it out on the ground which is
exactly what you do to it when you finance a boat long term and when you
pay to keep it in a marina, etc.


Pretty sound thinking.

Sound like it makes sense but it's incomplete.

I am not rich, and yes, I probably do spend more on my boat than I
should. So what.

Knock yourself out but don't go around telling everybody how great an
investment your boat is because it's a crappy investment. Justify it
simply the way you did above. Come right and say it's a lousy investment
in monetary terms but the social benefits help ease the pain.

It beats sitting around looking at the Wall St Journal.

Not if what you see in the Journal tells you you just made ten grand in
the last week. . .

And, I don't think I ever met a man yet that said to me "remember the
september ... issue of the Wall St Journal ... that was a great time
wasn't it ... sure wish old .... was here so we could read it again".

Why would anybody do that? It's better to enjoy the wealth and dwell on
how it's growth progressed.

Got to go. Time to smoke a fine cigar and make love with one of my many
female companions who love the life wealth can give them...

Wilbur Hubbard

In "Wilbur Hubbard" writes:


"Lauri Tarkkonen" wrote in message
...
In "KLC Lewis"
writes:


wrote in message
...
Net loss of 270K. You pay 27 thousand dollars a year to use your
boat
a dozen or so weekends a year. Stupid, just plain stupid!

Think about it.

Wilbur Hubbard

Now Wilbur do the math if the idiot did not purchased a boat.
Show with concrete evidence what happened to the 270K that what not
spend
buying and maintaining a boat.


"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
...
The average idiot buys a boat for say 100K and finances it for ten
years. He fits it out and keeps it in a slip. The fitting out
costs 20K,
the slip costs 5K per year, the insurance costs 1K a year. Haulout
for
bottom paint 1K a year. Fuel 1/2K a year.

After ten years the idiot has spent 250K paying back the loan, 20K
fitting out, 50K slip fee, 10K insurance, 10K haulout, 5K fuel,
oil,
filters, etc.

345K invested in a 100K boat that perhaps can be sold in ten years
for
75K. Net loss of 270K. You pay 27 thousand dollars a year to use
your
boat a dozen or so weekends a year. Stupid, just plain stupid!

Think about it.

Wilbur Hubbard

As for me and Essie, I paid cash for her (all of $8,000) and have
probably
put another $15,000 into new sails, rigging, instruments, anchors and
other
improvements over the past 6 years. I pay about $3,000 per year on
summer
slip / winter storage. Insurance is about $350 per year. Fuel? I
haven't
bought any for years -- I probably burn about $10 worth in a season,
since
the motor rarely runs and only burns about a quart an hour. Haulout
for
bottom paint? Hauling out happens every October, as close to Halloween
as I
can manage. I repaint the bottom, if needed, before splashing in the
spring
(one month from today) and isn't an extra expense. But everywhere I've
been
where bottom painting requires special haul-out, it happens every
three
years or so, and costs about $500. Even if it's a grand, it's not a
grand
every year.

What's she worth today? I can't say. I wouldn't sell her for rubies.
If I go
broke and bankrupt and lose 'most everything I own, I will still have
my
boat which will be my only home. People go to bars and pay $5.00 for a
drink
which passes right through them after stealing their brain for a
spell. To
me, THAT is a waste of money. Whatever floats y'er boat, mate!

We all know that it is dangerous to have more money than brains. To me
you are very fortunate, you are rich enough to get a boat enjoy it and
this other man is so poor he must calculate if he can afford one or
not.
As he can not afford it, we really should feel sorry for him.

- Lauri Tarkkonen

Lauri,

You are a trip. So touchy-feely and all that liberal crapola. If it
feels good go it. But have you never stopped to think you could have
taken your investment advisor's advice and invested in something that
would earn you some money instead of something that cost you an arm and
a leg?

Looks like you are even more cueless than I thought. The first boat I
bought was a racing dinghy in East Africa. Because I was keen to learn
and had more brains than money, I did some work on the boat and won a
number of races (actually some 90% of them) and sold my dinghy with
about a double what I had spent on it, because everybody with more money
than brains thought that it is nice to own a winning boat, you just sit
in it and win the next race. Then I came back to Finland, bought my
first 27 foot keelboat and sold it after 5 years with about double of
the price I bought it, the stock marked would have brought me about 20%
if I had done it properly, if I had done it badly I could have lost
everything, but at the meantime I could sail my boat entertain my
friends that would not be possible with the stock, bond or gold.

You can always charter a boat for a week-end if you highly value
a sunset somewhere aboard.

There are not a very good market for chartering, and it is very
difficult to coordinate the weather and the rosy sunset for the evenings
you charter the boat. Because I have been working in the university I
can administer my summers as I please, so I live in the boat
practically for two and half to three months. If I was forced to chace
the money as you seem to be, then I could afford to sail only for a
weekend or two, but this will not satisfy me.

I am afraind you do not know much about boats. Most of the sailors have
an idea what kind of boat they do like to sail. The charter companies
supply boats to ignorant people like you. They are suitable for being
kept in the harbour, you can invite your gests, offer them some
champagne, as they have cooling equipment, but they do not sail very
well, you do not get the feeling of beating in heavy weather and the
boat is nicely trimmed and goes high in the wind with some speed. Or
then you are aproaching the harbour in the dying wind, the waves are not
there the boat just goes, perhaps only 2 to 3 knots, but the silence of
the nature is beutifull, once a while you hear a familiar bird and you
know when you get to the harbour your wife is going to make a nice meal.

The best of both worlds can be had with a little sane thinking.

Sorry you are ignorant. There are not boats I like for charters not in
the area I sail and not when I want them. By the way, I have a
interesting project in my boat: Because we had a super warm summer, my
vife wanted a more efficient and bigger refrigerator. After some
thinking I know how it can be done, I have the cooling equipment and the
materials, when I get time to really do it, I will. To solve these kind
of problems could give some satisfaction to someone. Of course you can
get your satisfaction by earning another million, but if you can only
sail for a weekend and you can not afford a boat you like for yourself,
I think you are quite poor.

I can tell from your posts that you are quite impoverished.

I know that the governement does not pay very much, but as a professor
of statistics I have a quite interesting and satisfying job and if I do
not retire within a couple of months, i will do it within a year, and I
have paid for my house, car and boat have a bit money in the bank, so I
do not have to ask if I can afford to have the boat I like or if I can
afford to sail it.

People who say it's dangerous to have more money than brains usually
have less brains than usual. You can NEVER have too much money.
Just like you can never have too much fun.

I guess I have been working for some 40 years in a field asking for
brains, and done decently so I believe I have enough of them. I have
enough money to get what I need, but seems to me, you do not have, as
the money is an issue for you.

But, you do sound kinda cute. Do you have a nice figure? Are you 35 or
under? Do you have all your teeth? Can you read a compass. Post a link
to a picture if you're attractive. I'll take you out on my (paid for)
boat (a Swan 68) and we can have a sunset all to ourselves. I live like
a king. You can be queen for a day.
How's about it honey?

Perhaps you are gay, I am not, so I do not see much point in your offer.
I can read a compas, splice ropes and wire, install electronics and
repair and trim sails and be a very usefull hand on a boat, but as I
said I can afford to sail the boats I like. Swan 68 is a nice boat, but
I am afraid i would not buy it even if had the money, i can admit I do
not have it, one reason being that I choose a career accoring to my
interest not the economic appeal. So I do not have to prostitute myself
now.

- Lauri Tarkkonen

Wilbur Hubbard