"shaun" wrote in message
...
Jonathan Ganz wrote:
In article . net,
Maxprop wrote:

"Gogarty" wrote in message
. ..

In article , says...

"You can't take it with you."

We bought our first boat on the way home from the funeral of our best
man.
More than tweny years ago. The funeral was on the far end of Long Island
(his
ashes were scattered in Three Mile Harbor) and the yard was on the way
back to
Manhattan.

A funeral is always a reality check, especially when the deceased is
someone close and young. I think a lot of boats have been bought after
funerals.



Yes. Mine was doubly so.
mine is close and now i have just found out my mate who was addmitted to
hospital yesterday with a stroke or brain embelism is to have the wires
pulled tomorrow and he is only 45 yo.
A crying shame as he now leaves 2 children without a father whom they
adore.....
Just makes me more determined to get mine and sail her

a sad sad sad
Shaun

Be sure to stay involved with the kids. They'll need someone around who
knew and befriended their father.

Max

"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Lauri Tarkkonen" wrote in message
...
In "Wilbur Hubbard"
writes:


wrote in message
...
Net loss of 270K. You pay 27 thousand dollars a year to use your
boat
a dozen or so weekends a year. Stupid, just plain stupid!

Think about it.

Wilbur Hubbard

Now Wilbur do the math if the idiot did not purchased a boat.
Show with concrete evidence what happened to the 270K that what not
spend buying and maintaining a boat.


If that sum wasn't spent on something else stupid and useless as far
as
investment is concerned it could be invested in something that would
give a reasonable return. Things like land, stocks, bonds, gold(in
the
last ten years), If you get a 10% return per anum your 270K will be
worth 540K in ten years. In twenty years it makes you a millionaire.
So
you trade millionaire status for the privilege of owning a 100K boat?

That's totally insane. . .

Wilbur Hubbard

I do not know what gives you the right to call someone with different
preferences than you an idiot.

Relax, Lauri. You have to know Capt. Neal to understand his tirades.

Max

Tirade? Since when is fact tirade? Since when has a valid point backed
up with figures about how people waste their money on boats become
trolling? Is this not a discussion group about boats? Is not discussing
if and how boats are a terrible waste of money not a valid discussion
point? From the looks of this group it seems to me such a discussion is
totally appropriate.

When people call it trolling, off topic, a tirade, perhaps it's because
they are jealous when they see a thread getting lots of traffic and they
feel badly because they aren't astute enough to initiate such a
discussion. "That's not fair, I'm not gonna play anymore," they whine.

Wilbur Hubbard

"Maxprop" wrote in message
link.net...

"Gogarty" wrote in message
...
In article . net,
says...

Absolutely. My father was fond of saying: "This isn't a dress
rehearsal."
His point being that one lives life or one does not. You can't take
your
money with you, and I sure as hell have no great desire to pass it
one to my
kid and screw her up.

We initially thought of naming our boat "SOCI" with a sedilla on the
C. But we
thought it might be unncessarily provocative. Short for Spending Our
Children's Inheritance.

I've seen similar names, such as "Our Kids' Inheritance" and "Leaving
Nothing Behind for the Kids." The last one is a puzzlement--can you
imagine calling that in when asking for a slip?

Max


Asking for a slip? And that alone doesn't embarrass you? Begging to pay
big bucks to tie up to two piles and a pier squeezed in among other
losers while having your boat attacked by stray electricity, water
polluted with sewage and fuel and oil, subjected to roaches, noise,
fumes, rats, cats and dogs ****ing on your lines.

The very least of your worries is how stupid the name of your boat is, I
should think. Real sailors anchor or moor out and take a dinghy to
shore. Why on earth would you pay money to support any operation that
treats you like scum and charges an arm and a leg for it. Ya gotta be a
masochist.

Wilbur Hubbard

"Lauri Tarkkonen" wrote in message
...
In "Wilbur Hubbard"
writes:


wrote in message
...
Net loss of 270K. You pay 27 thousand dollars a year to use your
boat
a dozen or so weekends a year. Stupid, just plain stupid!

Think about it.

Wilbur Hubbard

Now Wilbur do the math if the idiot did not purchased a boat.
Show with concrete evidence what happened to the 270K that what not
spend buying and maintaining a boat.


If that sum wasn't spent on something else stupid and useless as far
as
investment is concerned it could be invested in something that would
give a reasonable return. Things like land, stocks, bonds, gold(in the
last ten years), If you get a 10% return per anum your 270K will be
worth 540K in ten years. In twenty years it makes you a millionaire.
So
you trade millionaire status for the privilege of owning a 100K boat?

That's totally insane. . .

Wilbur Hubbard

I do not know what gives you the right to call someone with different
preferences than you an idiot.

Long time ago, I bought a small sailing boat, for some amount of
money,
my brother in law a financial wizard said: I would not but my money in
boats, I get much better return in buing some stock from the market.
I asked him: How can you sail with the stock? He told me, of course
you
do not sail with the stock, but after you sell them I have more money
than you when you sell the boat. I was sailing the boat, enjoying the
sea and the archipelago, even could take him on a ride, that he
enjoyed
a lot. Say, whatever you please, I might be stupid to invest the money
in a boat, it does not only give me some days or weeks at the seas, it
gives me dreams in the winter about future sailing trips and nice
memories for the previous ones. Of course you might say that your
dreams
about getting more money to be invested in some more stock or gold are
better dreams than mine or your fond memories of keeping the money in
your hand or looking at the balance of your check account might be
more
beautifull than mine memories of the perfect sunset in the
archipelago.

You may keep your dreams of the $$$$$$, but for many sailors the
dollars
have any value only if they can be used to buy the memories of a
perfect
sailing trip. So you might feel you are a better human being as you
have
more dollars than me, but I was able to provide the brother in law an
unforgettable experience in my sailing boat, that he could not do for
me, as I did not get more kicks of looking at his bank statement than
I
wold get bu looking of my own.

You may still call us idiots, but we are happy idiots, but I know many
people thinking your way, and they are unhappy, as they are afraid
that
the value of their stock will just evaporate, but I know that my fond
memories will be there for ever. When I die, I have at least had the
experience and my children might come to **** on my grave for spending
my money in a sailing boat and not leaving them piles of $$$$$. By the
way, they are not sailors, but they have told that they give much
value
of the days they have spent on sea with me in my boat, and they do not
need any money from me.

- Lauri Tarkkonen

Your entire post is a screed on the virtues of selfishness when it comes
to financial matters. I think any real man would be happy to leave an
inheritance to his children provided his children were worthy of it,
that is. Real men make enough money so they have plenty for their own
pleasure with plenty to pass on to their offspring. It's the right way
to do things.

But, everybody is missing the point which point is not that you should
not buy a boat but that you should not FINANCE a boat. Save your pennies
and buy a boat outright that you feel you can afford. Put it on a
mooring and save the dock fees. Be responsible and self-insure. You will
fine yourself enjoying your boat even more when you realize you have
been responsible about it.

Earn your money first; spend it second. You will find it is oh so much
easier to spend wisely when you earned your money first because they you
will know the value of a dollar the better.

Wilbur Hubbard

* Wilbur Hubbard wrote, On 3/22/2007 5:32 PM:
....

Tirade? Since when is fact tirade? Since when has a valid point backed
up with figures about how people waste their money on boats become
trolling?

As usual, it was backed up by made up numbers. Let's look a bit more
carefully:

The average idiot buys a boat for say 100K

hardly, but let's leave that fro the moment

and finances it for ten years.

Financing a boat only makes sense if you have a job that easily covers
it, most prefer to pay cash. However, if you were to finance a $100K
boat, you would probably need 20% down, so you're financing $80K, with
a current rate of 6.37% (Essex Finance Boat Loan). For 10 years,
that's $903 /month, for a total of $108K. So the cost of the boat,
plus outfitting is $40K down, and $108K spread over 10 years.

He fits it out and keeps it in a slip. The fitting out
costs 20K, the slip costs 5K per year, the insurance
costs 1K a year. Haulout for bottom paint 1K a year.
Fuel 1/2K a year.

These numbers are rather high and would represent "top end"
accommodations. However, there are numerous costs not included so I
won't quibble.

After ten years the idiot has spent 250K paying back
the loan, 20K fitting out,

your sloppy math has you off by roughly a factor of 2 here - total
cost was $148K ...

50K slip fee, 10K insurance, 10K haulout, 5K fuel, oil, filters,

we'll give you th $75K of annual fees

345K invested in a 100K boat that perhaps can be sold
in ten years for 75K. Net loss of 270K.

Nope, it was $40K invested, plus $108K in payments, plus $75K in
expenses, for a total of $223. The sale price of $75 seems low,
but that would mean a "loss" of $148K.

You pay 27 thousand dollars a year to use your boat a dozen or
so weekends a year. Stupid, just plain stupid!

Nope, it was only $14.8K a year, you're off by a factor of 2. Of
course, 2800 was finance charge, by keeping the boat on a mooring you
could save at least $3000 a year. Further, the "average" boater
doesn't buy an expensive new boat. Very few people have a boat worth
more than $50K. So it would be easy to keep the total cost at under
$10K per year. Clearly a lot of money, but everyone knows that boat
ownership is a form of mental illness.

Is this not a discussion group about boats?

I agree its a reasonable topic of discussion, but basing it on bogus
numbers is counterproductive.

* Wilbur Hubbard wrote, On 3/22/2007 5:45 PM:

Your entire post is a screed on the virtues of selfishness when it comes
to financial matters. I think any real man would be happy to leave an
inheritance to his children provided his children were worthy of it,
that is. Real men make enough money so they have plenty for their own
pleasure with plenty to pass on to their offspring. It's the right way
to do things.

I suppose it would be nice to "pass something on" but other than a
start on an education and perhaps a little help setting up a
household, I'm not sure I see the imperative. Values are much more
important to pass on, they will serve you offspring better in the long
run.


But, everybody is missing the point which point is not that you should
not buy a boat but that you should not FINANCE a boat.

I don't think that was lost everyone.

Save your pennies
and buy a boat outright that you feel you can afford. Put it on a
mooring and save the dock fees.

That depends - will being on a mooring reduce your opportunity to use
it?

Be responsible and self-insure.

That's not being responsible if you don't have liability insurance.

You will
fine yourself enjoying your boat even more when you realize you have
been responsible about it.

Earn your money first; spend it second. You will find it is oh so much
easier to spend wisely when you earned your money first because they you
will know the value of a dollar the better.

On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 17:39:07 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

Real sailors anchor or moor out and take a dinghy to
shore.

Real sailors are not named Wilbur.

It has an un-manly sound to it.

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 19:32:06 -0500, "Scotty" w@u wrote:


"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in
message news:RHCMh.109466

. Real sailors anchor or moor out and take a dinghy to
shore.

Shore? Why do you feel the need to go to shore? When I
anchor out, I stay on the boat because that is where I
wanted to be in the first place.
You, sir, sound like a land lubber!

Scotty



Painful for Wilbur to hear, I'm sure, but it desperately needed to be
said.

CWM

Nope, it is you two who just firmly established that you are the
lubbers. You can stay aboard when you anchor out because you anchor out
from time to time on the week-ends as a getaway from your shoreside
life. Real sailors, on the other hand, live aboard and travel from place
to place and anchor out every night of the year. Going to shore is
necessary to stock up on necessaries such as food, water and alcohol and
ice.

Both of you idiots don't have a clue. At the very least, until they
establish floating liquor stores, all good sailors must go to shore
regularly. One needs ice, mixers and lots of rum. Why, I've had a couple
or three other real sailors come by to visit and compare notes and we
sat in the cockpit shooting the ****. It's nothing to go through a
couple quarts of rum and a ten pound bag of ice in one afternoon. We can
curse loudly, shoot guns, **** over the side and generally raise hell
all of which would get you evicted from a marina.

For me, sailing is a lifestyle all of its own and not some infrequent
escape from the workaday world like it is for you and poor domesticated
Scotty.

Wilbur Hubbard

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 17:39:07 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

Real sailors anchor or moor out and take a dinghy to
shore.

Real sailors are not named Wilbur.

It has an un-manly sound to it.


Beats the hell outta Lauri.

Wilbur Hubbard

"Jeff" wrote in message
. ..
* Wilbur Hubbard wrote, On 3/22/2007 5:32 PM:
...

Tirade? Since when is fact tirade? Since when has a valid point
backed up with figures about how people waste their money on boats
become trolling?

As usual, it was backed up by made up numbers. Let's look a bit more
carefully:

The average idiot buys a boat for say 100K

hardly, but let's leave that fro the moment

and finances it for ten years.

Financing a boat only makes sense if you have a job that easily covers
it, most prefer to pay cash. However, if you were to finance a $100K
boat, you would probably need 20% down, so you're financing $80K, with
a current rate of 6.37% (Essex Finance Boat Loan). For 10 years,
that's $903 /month, for a total of $108K. So the cost of the boat,
plus outfitting is $40K down, and $108K spread over 10 years.

He fits it out and keeps it in a slip. The fitting out
costs 20K, the slip costs 5K per year, the insurance
costs 1K a year. Haulout for bottom paint 1K a year.
Fuel 1/2K a year.

These numbers are rather high and would represent "top end"
accommodations. However, there are numerous costs not included so I
won't quibble.

After ten years the idiot has spent 250K paying back
the loan, 20K fitting out,

your sloppy math has you off by roughly a factor of 2 here - total
cost was $148K ...

50K slip fee, 10K insurance, 10K haulout, 5K fuel, oil, filters,

we'll give you th $75K of annual fees

345K invested in a 100K boat that perhaps can be sold
in ten years for 75K. Net loss of 270K.

Nope, it was $40K invested, plus $108K in payments, plus $75K in
expenses, for a total of $223. The sale price of $75 seems low,
but that would mean a "loss" of $148K.

You pay 27 thousand dollars a year to use your boat a dozen or
so weekends a year. Stupid, just plain stupid!

Nope, it was only $14.8K a year, you're off by a factor of 2. Of
course, 2800 was finance charge, by keeping the boat on a mooring you
could save at least $3000 a year. Further, the "average" boater
doesn't buy an expensive new boat. Very few people have a boat worth
more than $50K. So it would be easy to keep the total cost at under
$10K per year. Clearly a lot of money, but everyone knows that boat
ownership is a form of mental illness.

Is this not a discussion group about boats?

I agree its a reasonable topic of discussion, but basing it on bogus
numbers is counterproductive.


So, let's split the difference then. You purposely went low and I
purposely went high. Let's compromise and call it 2OK a year. That's
still ridiculous. And it depends a lot on where you slip your boat. Some
places in some of the more expensive parts of the country rent slips for
a forty foot boat, for example, for well over a grand a month. Your
finance interest rates are too low. etc. So you should be willing to
compromise and split the difference too if you're reasonable.

Wilbur Hubbard