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#1
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Jet Ski overheating problem
Look, you're posting this to a cruising n/g. Jet skis are noisy and
offensive buzzing insects and the people who drive around on them are the seaborne equivalent of morons who ride trail bikes on public reserves. Go away and play with your toy and don't expect any sympathy from sailors. You obviously haven't been actually reading the thread, or refuse to be shaken from your outdated smug superior false stereotyping notions of boaters on pwc's. The point has been made (by boaters and non-pwcers): "jet skis" are actually NOT noisy anymore! Probably the quietest and cleanest-running power boats being sold. And neither I, nor any of my pwc enthusiast friends, many of whom also own and operate larger boats as well, fit your uninformed description...at all. I am a cruiser too, P, have in fact done more serious long-distance/multi-day cruising on pwc's, longer, more ambitious and more of it, than most larger-boat owners I know (as I described to some extent earlier in the thread I think). Like you and other boaters and cruisers in bigger boats, I have to learn how to navigate, how to dock, how to launch and retrieve my boat, how to obey the rules of the road and respect the laws and all other fellow boaters, how to avoid going aground, how to prepare for and deal with emergencies and problem situations on the water, how to use all nautical tools, how to maintain, repair and safely operate my craft, take careful care of my passengers...and like you and all fellow boaters, get angry at the behavior of the too-large percentage of people who do idiotic dangerous irresponsible things on the water no matter what the size and shape of their hulls, not only because of the danger they pose but because of the bad face they put on the entire boating community. Yes, okay, I'll gladly accept the term "toy" to describe my pwc in the same sense that any power boat is in a way a toy (and in a way, not). But no one's looking for any sympathy, just trying to educate and inform some obviously ignorant, nasty and prejudiced fellow boaters on what we're talking about. When you specifically insult me and my friends in words like yours above, I'm not gonna let it slide or just go away. It doesn't matter how many anecdotal experiences you've had observing pwc'ers doing dumb things, you and I have both seen just as many idiots in bigger boats doing just as many comically or frighteningly bad stupid things, at the ramp, on the water, around sailboats and surfers, in the channel, at the marina, in the no-wake zone, near the shore. I do respect sailors enormously, I know you really have to know what you're doing to sail. Probably far fewer idiots in that category because it's a lot more difficult and takes more effort and dedication to get into in the first place. By the same token, pwc's probably have a slightly higher percentage of clueless newbies and kids on them than larger boats, again because they're easier to afford and to get behind the wheel of in the first place (much less so in NY and other states now that you have to take a basic boating safety course in order to legally operate one at all - all but extinguishing the rental market, which is where most of the problems come from). But most people exhibiting the kind of behavior you're thinking about on pwc's are either newbies or kids who haven't learned and figured out the rules and the impact of their behavior YET, but they will....if not, they're just idiots, and again there's no shortage of them, no matter what the level of age, experience, income, or what size and shape boat a person has. richforman |
#2
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Jet Ski overheating problem
wrote in message
oups.com... Look, you're posting this to a cruising n/g. Jet skis are noisy and offensive buzzing insects and the people who drive around on them are the seaborne equivalent of morons who ride trail bikes on public reserves. Go away and play with your toy and don't expect any sympathy from sailors. You obviously haven't been actually reading the thread, or refuse to be shaken from your outdated smug superior false stereotyping notions of boaters on pwc's. The point has been made (by boaters and non-pwcers): "jet skis" are actually NOT noisy anymore! Probably the quietest and cleanest-running power boats being sold. And neither I, nor any of my The vast majority are quite noisy. pwc enthusiast friends, many of whom also own and operate larger boats as well, fit your uninformed description...at all. I am a cruiser too, Well, that's nice! P, have in fact done more serious long-distance/multi-day cruising on pwc's, longer, more ambitious and more of it, than most larger-boat owners I know (as I described to some extent earlier in the thread I think). Like you and other boaters and cruisers in bigger boats, I have to learn how to navigate, how to dock, how to launch and retrieve my boat, how to obey the rules of the road and respect the laws and all other fellow boaters, how to avoid going aground, how to prepare for and deal with emergencies and problem situations on the water, how to use all nautical tools, how to maintain, repair and safely operate my craft, take careful care of my passengers...and like you and all fellow boaters, get angry at the behavior of the too-large percentage of people who do idiotic dangerous irresponsible things on the water no matter what the size and shape of their hulls, not only because of the danger they pose but because of the bad face they put on the entire boating community. "too-large percentage of people who do idiotic ... things" are what we're talking about. Yes, okay, I'll gladly accept the term "toy" to describe my pwc in the same sense that any power boat is in a way a toy (and in a way, not). But no one's looking for any sympathy, just trying to educate and inform some obviously ignorant, nasty and prejudiced fellow boaters on what we're talking about. When you specifically insult me and my friends in words like yours above, I'm not gonna let it slide or just go away. That's what makes America great. It doesn't matter how many anecdotal experiences you've had observing pwc'ers doing dumb things, you and I have both seen just as many idiots in bigger boats doing just as many comically or frighteningly bad stupid things, at the ramp, on the water, around sailboats and surfers, in the channel, at the marina, in the no-wake zone, near the shore. Well, I haven't see just as many idiots on sailboats annoy the entire harbor, nearly run over swimmer, disturb the natural habitat, pollute the water, etc., as jetskiers. I guess I don't get out enough. I do know many places where they are specifically banned. I do respect sailors enormously, I know you really have to know what you're doing to sail. Probably far fewer idiots in that category because it's a lot more difficult and takes more effort and dedication to get into in the first place. By the same token, pwc's probably have a slightly higher percentage of clueless newbies and kids on them than larger boats, again because they're easier to afford and to get behind Didn't you just contradict yourself here? the wheel of in the first place (much less so in NY and other states now that you have to take a basic boating safety course in order to legally operate one at all - all but extinguishing the rental market, which is where most of the problems come from). But most people exhibiting the kind of behavior you're thinking about on pwc's are either newbies or kids who haven't learned and figured out the rules and the impact of their behavior YET, but they will....if not, they're just idiots, and again there's no shortage of them, no matter what the level of age, experience, income, or what size and shape boat a person has. richforman |
#3
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Jet Ski overheating problem
"jet skis" are actually NOT noisy anymore! Probably the quietest and
cleanest-running power boats being sold. And neither I, nor any of my The vast majority are quite noisy. Nope, certainly not the vast majority of the ones being manufactured and sold now. They are dead quiet. My four-stroke, the loudest sound is the waves against the hull,and my wife and I can have a normal conversation without raising our voices while running at speed...and all the pwc manufacturers are marketing their new four-stroke models almost exclusively I am a cruiser too, Well, that's nice! My point was that I have every right, not only that, but that it's perfectly appropriate for me to be reading and posting here; your previous post had tried to kick us pwc'ers out on the basis of the newsgroup being for "cruisers." Like you and other boaters and cruisers in bigger boats, I boaters, get angry at the behavior of the too-large percentage of people who do idiotic dangerous irresponsible things on the water "too-large percentage of people who do idiotic ... things" are what we're talking about. Yes but the crucial point I was making and you seem to have missed right there, is that there is that the problem is not, and not nearly, exclusive to pwc's, but exists across all segments of the recreational boating world. So your prejudiced, mean-spirited, ill-informed, stereotyping comments about pwc'ers ("the people who drive around on them are the seaborne equivalent of morons") are unfair and inaccurate (although, nice word there,"seaborne," impressive!). (And once again, I am so glad to note that I never get this feeling from actual fellow boaters on the water, mainly just from usenet assholes, but I'm still not going to let it stand.) It doesn't matter how many anecdotal experiences you've had observing pwc'ers doing dumb things, you and I have both seen just as many idiots in bigger boats doing just as many comically or frighteningly bad stupid things, at the ramp, on the water, around sailboats and surfers, in the channel, at the marina, in the no-wake zone, near the shore. Well, I haven't see just as many idiots on sailboats annoy the entire harbor, nearly run over swimmer, disturb the natural habitat, pollute the water, etc., as jetskiers. ....or as other power boaters besides "jetskiers," right? I already have said that I think sailboaters are probably on average, more skilled and better educated than power boaters simply because it takes more effort, skill and experience to operate one in the first place. But a special distinction just for pwc'ers is where you go wrong. We are just power boaters, really the same as any other except that our boats are smaller (and, maybe, more fun!). Anyway, again, as with the "noise" issue, the fact is that modern-generation pwc'ers (let's say for the last five years easily) are among the cleanest-running and least-polluting powerboats on the water. The technology has just skyrocketed, and the fuel efficiency is amazing (I go about 125 miles on an 18.5 gallon tank of regular and burn no oil; lots of bigger boats can't make any better "pollution" claims than those, but several other pwc models do even better than mine). Again your statements are just based on stereotypes and outdated information and if you refuse to update your knowledge of the situation, I'm gonna point out the falsehood of your statements about it every chance I get. I guess I don't get out enough. I do know many places where they are specifically banned. Some people don't seem to like 'em, it's true. BUT if you've been paying any attention to developments over the last few years, you'd know that the majority of pwc bans in national parks have been ROLLED BACK and reversed over the last five years as the results of mandated environmental impact studies have come in and shown that pwc's make no more, and in many cases, less, noise, pollution and impact on wildlife than that of other power boats. By the same token, pwc's probably have a slightly higher percentage of clueless newbies and kids on them than larger boats, again because they're easier to afford and to get behind Didn't you just contradict yourself here? Not at all....I graciously conceded a point....I don't ignore reality in my arguments. But my admitting to a potentially "slightly higher percentage" of inexperienced operators on pwc's as compared to other categories of boat, due to the factors I cited, doesn't validate or vindicate your apparent broad sweeping indictments/dismissals of all pwc users or the majority of them as being "morons" etc. richforman |
#4
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Jet Ski overheating problem
In article . com,
wrote: "jet skis" are actually NOT noisy anymore! Probably the quietest and cleanest-running power boats being sold. And neither I, nor any of my The vast majority are quite noisy. Nope, certainly not the vast majority of the ones being manufactured and sold now. They are dead quiet. My four-stroke, the loudest sound Get real man.... most jetskis on the water right now are obnoxiously loud. It's nice to know the new ones don't make so much noise and don't pollute. I guess the 4-stroke is a new fangled engine. I am a cruiser too, Well, that's nice! My point was that I have every right, not only that, but that it's perfectly appropriate for me to be reading and posting here; your previous post had tried to kick us pwc'ers out on the basis of the newsgroup being for "cruisers." I'm not trying to kick you out of anywhere on usenet. Why would I want to do that? You're welcome to post your stuff for all to see. You're certainly not, as a group, cruisers, but that's got nothing to do with posting here. Yes but the crucial point I was making and you seem to have missed right there, is that there is that the problem is not, and not nearly, all segments of the recreational boating world. So your prejudiced, mean-spirited, ill-informed, stereotyping comments about pwc'ers ("the I think they're highly accurate, since there's a much higher percentage of noising, polluting jetskiers than there are sailboat cruisers. Sounds to me like you're a bit sensitive when it comes to jetski comments. (although, nice word there,"seaborne," impressive!). (And once again, I am so glad to note that I never get this feeling from actual fellow boaters on the water, mainly just from usenet assholes, but I'm still not going to let it stand.) Ah, personal name calling. Come on, I'm sure you can think of something worse to call me than an asshole. Like I said, among sailboaters, PWC are generally known for being loud, obnoxious, and pollution machines. I am going to let that stand. Well, I haven't see just as many idiots on sailboats annoy the entire harbor, nearly run over swimmer, disturb the natural habitat, pollute the water, etc., as jetskiers. ...or as other power boaters besides "jetskiers," right? I already have said that I think sailboaters are probably on average, more skilled and better educated than power boaters simply because it takes more effort, skill and experience to operate one in the first place. But a special distinction just for pwc'ers is where you go wrong. We are just power boaters, really the same as any other except that our boats are smaller (and, maybe, more fun!). And, I agree with you. I've been in many anchorages with both kinds of craft.. power and sail. I prefer sailboats, but I've never had much of a noise issue with powerboats in those areas. Once in a while, I've gone over and asked them to turn off their engines after they've been idling for a long time, and they've always been nice about it... either did so or moved off. Anyway, again, as with the "noise" issue, the fact is that modern-generation pwc'ers (let's say for the last five years easily) are among the cleanest-running and least-polluting powerboats on the water. The technology has just skyrocketed, and the fuel efficiency is What's that got to do with the ones currently on the water?? Nothing. mine). Again your statements are just based on stereotypes and outdated information and if you refuse to update your knowledge of the situation, I'm gonna point out the falsehood of your statements about it every chance I get. Yeah sure... I guess that means anything over 1 week old is outdated. Seems typical of the PWC mentality. Some people don't seem to like 'em, it's true. BUT if you've been paying any attention to developments over the last few years, you'd know that the majority of pwc bans in national parks have been ROLLED BACK and reversed over the last five years as the results of mandated environmental impact studies have come in and shown that pwc's make no more, and in many cases, less, noise, pollution and impact on wildlife than that of other power boats. Why would I want to do that? I have no plans to own one. Start talking about the vast numbers that are not so new and pollute like hell. Didn't you just contradict yourself here? Not at all....I graciously conceded a point....I don't ignore reality in my arguments. But my admitting to a potentially "slightly higher percentage" of inexperienced operators on pwc's as compared to other categories of boat, due to the factors I cited, doesn't validate or vindicate your apparent broad sweeping indictments/dismissals of all pwc users or the majority of them as being "morons" etc. Ah, well, we're all very appreciative of your concessions. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
#6
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Jet Ski overheating problem
DSK wrote:
And what planet is this on? It's not stereotyping when 90% of the jet-skiiers that I observe are spending their time, apparently enjoying themselves, buzzing around other boats, swim beaches, and docks. They annoy other people, and apparently enjoy doing it. They sound like floating chainsaws... maybe you don't consider this "noisy" but most other people do. If you personally don't behave this way, then that's great. But here's a clue- you personally are NOT the majority of jet-skiiers. Doug King That's right... *new* PWC's might be nice quiet clean machines...but the zillion out there now are the noisy, stinky version owned in too many cases by yahoos. They buy them because they want to zip around and bother people. |
#7
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Jet Ski overheating problem
Fortunately, these days I live in a place where jetskis are banned. Long may it stay that way. Guess why they got banned? Noisy offensive buzzing insects driven by morons who broke every rule in the book. I'll agree that not 100% of the owners fit this description, but more than enough to **** off people to the point where these things are banned. That's reality. Deal with it. If you don't want to get classified along with the morons, perhaps you should reconsider your toys. PDW In article .com, wrote: Look, you're posting this to a cruising n/g. Jet skis are noisy and offensive buzzing insects and the people who drive around on them are the seaborne equivalent of morons who ride trail bikes on public reserves. Go away and play with your toy and don't expect any sympathy from sailors. You obviously haven't been actually reading the thread, or refuse to be shaken from your outdated smug superior false stereotyping notions of boaters on pwc's. The point has been made (by boaters and non-pwcers): "jet skis" are actually NOT noisy anymore! Probably the quietest and cleanest-running power boats being sold. And neither I, nor any of my pwc enthusiast friends, many of whom also own and operate larger boats as well, fit your uninformed description...at all. I am a cruiser too, P, have in fact done more serious long-distance/multi-day cruising on pwc's, longer, more ambitious and more of it, than most larger-boat owners I know (as I described to some extent earlier in the thread I think). Like you and other boaters and cruisers in bigger boats, I have to learn how to navigate, how to dock, how to launch and retrieve my boat, how to obey the rules of the road and respect the laws and all other fellow boaters, how to avoid going aground, how to prepare for and deal with emergencies and problem situations on the water, how to use all nautical tools, how to maintain, repair and safely operate my craft, take careful care of my passengers...and like you and all fellow boaters, get angry at the behavior of the too-large percentage of people who do idiotic dangerous irresponsible things on the water no matter what the size and shape of their hulls, not only because of the danger they pose but because of the bad face they put on the entire boating community. Yes, okay, I'll gladly accept the term "toy" to describe my pwc in the same sense that any power boat is in a way a toy (and in a way, not). But no one's looking for any sympathy, just trying to educate and inform some obviously ignorant, nasty and prejudiced fellow boaters on what we're talking about. When you specifically insult me and my friends in words like yours above, I'm not gonna let it slide or just go away. It doesn't matter how many anecdotal experiences you've had observing pwc'ers doing dumb things, you and I have both seen just as many idiots in bigger boats doing just as many comically or frighteningly bad stupid things, at the ramp, on the water, around sailboats and surfers, in the channel, at the marina, in the no-wake zone, near the shore. I do respect sailors enormously, I know you really have to know what you're doing to sail. Probably far fewer idiots in that category because it's a lot more difficult and takes more effort and dedication to get into in the first place. By the same token, pwc's probably have a slightly higher percentage of clueless newbies and kids on them than larger boats, again because they're easier to afford and to get behind the wheel of in the first place (much less so in NY and other states now that you have to take a basic boating safety course in order to legally operate one at all - all but extinguishing the rental market, which is where most of the problems come from). But most people exhibiting the kind of behavior you're thinking about on pwc's are either newbies or kids who haven't learned and figured out the rules and the impact of their behavior YET, but they will....if not, they're just idiots, and again there's no shortage of them, no matter what the level of age, experience, income, or what size and shape boat a person has. richforman |
#8
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Jet Ski overheating problem
Fortunately, these days I live in a place where jetskis are banned.
Long may it stay that way. Guess why they got banned? Noisy offensive buzzing insects driven by morons who broke every rule in the book Okay, fine, but do me a favor, suppose this hypothetically: What if, in recognition of existing problems, and in an effort to get into your town's good graces, and most importantly, to be allowed onto your beautiful waterways (where we pay the same taxes to support launch ramps and other boating-related services as do other boaters), the pwc-owning community and industry (not that powerful a lobbying bloc, there are only four manufacturers), took certain steps, for instance.... Suppose they/we actively and successfully supported and promoted mandatory education and licensing requirements for pwc operators, and as a result, pwc-related accident and injury statistics dropped for multiple years in a row, as has happened in states where such laws have been enacted over the past five or six years, including New York, New Jersey and Connecticut; and also, young or new pwc owners and operators were, increasingly, demonstrably and enforceably, at least acquainted with the basics of boating safety, courtesy and regulations before they could legally operate a vehicle...(unlike with any other kind of boats, I might add parenthetically) Now, suppose further, bear with me here, that in addition, for more than five years, the entire industry had been on a continuous and highly effective campaign to make their 'skis dramatically quieter, cleaner-running, vastly more fuel-efficient and with provably far-reduced pollution and impact on wildlife and the environment (in the end comparing at the very least favorably in those areas with pretty much all other new power boats in the market). Let's say the new 'skis were found to be 75% quieter than those from five years ago, with (obviously) the ratio of these newer, clean./quiet models to older/louder/dirtier boats out on the water, inevitably increased year by year, obviously that trend stretching into the future... Now, do you think it would be reasonable to ask those in your community, those who'd voted for the pwc bans in the first place, especially those with an interest in boating in general, to be informed and aware of, and to acknowledge, these developments, and in fact to reevaluate their impressions of pwc's and their riders, with these changes in mind, after a number of years? Would you yourself be willing to do that? To update your level of knowledge in the topic even though it may not seem to affect you personally (you never plan to buy a pwc), and to take the banned community's responses and efforts to improve their reputation and the entire situation, into account....would you ever be willing to reconsider and revisit the issue in the name of simple fairness, even regularly, every five years; would you be able to have your notions on the matter changed over time by new information? OR, would you stubbornly cling to your original perceptions and notions about pwc's, refusing to be swayed by or bothered with ongoing changes such as these, in your attitudes and policies toward the machines and their riders.....always basing your final evaluation on the older, original data on the basis of which you first formed your impressions years ago? Would you in fact, in your mind, even possibly, tend to unfairly prejudge and stereotype pwc's and the majority of their riders based on conditions you observed anecdotally before any of these changes (in statistics; in technology; in law; in a large percentage of the riders themselves) had come about? Rhetorical questions obviously. Just take a look at yourself, man, and your attitude. Remember we are all in this together when you talk about bans. There are plenty of people who would love to see all power boats banned from our waterways entirely....they are the ones who at FIRST seemed to be succeeding with national park bans enacted back in the late '90s, until science and reality bore out the fact that pwc's were not intrinsically different from any other power boats, the results of the parks' own studies causing these bans to be rolled back in the last couple years, one after another....do you think the environmental extremists who initiated these laws would have stopped at pwc's? I just know I share a love of the water, and a great number of responsibilities and concerns, with everybody on this newsgroup, and every other boater and pwc enthusiast out on the water. Here's another question: out of pwc's versus boaters at large, which group more often has a beer in the hand of every person you seem to see on a vessel underway? How about this: which group has a greater percentage of always having life vests on? There is stupidity, irresposnbility, and dangerous, illegal behavior perpretrated by boaters of ALL STRIPES on all sizes and shapes of boats, but it is WRONG and UNFAIR to prejudicially make statements painting all those boaters with the same brush based on the behavior of the idiotic ones. It is just wrong. And "banning" any type of vehicle based on the illegal behavior of whatever percentage of its users, is even more wrong....you just might not know it yet if hasn't affected you personaly with your "choice of toy." richforman |
#9
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Jet Ski overheating problem
In article . com,
wrote: Okay, fine, but do me a favor, suppose this hypothetically: Sure thing... What if, in recognition of existing problems, and in an effort to get into your town's good graces, and most importantly, to be allowed onto your ... took certain steps, for instance.... Step one... Suppose they/we actively and successfully supported and promoted mandatory education and licensing requirements for pwc operators, and as a ... operate a vehicle...(unlike with any other kind of boats, I might add parenthetically) Good start. Now, suppose further, bear with me here, that in addition, for more than five years, the entire industry had been on a continuous and highly effective campaign to make their 'skis dramatically quieter, ... by year, obviously that trend stretching into the future... Another good start. Now, do you think it would be reasonable to ask those in your community, those who'd voted for the pwc bans in the first place, especially those with an interest in boating in general, to be informed and aware of, and to acknowledge, these developments, and in fact to reevaluate their impressions of pwc's and their riders, with these changes in mind, after a number of years? No problem. Would you yourself be willing to do that? To update your level of Sure thing. OR, would you stubbornly cling to your original perceptions and notions ... Rhetorical questions obviously. Just take a look at yourself, man, and your attitude. I have no problem doing all of that... as soon as we can completely get rid of the assholes I was originally talking about... the noisy, polluting, obnoxious ones that predominate the sport. Remember we are all in this together when you talk about bans. There are plenty of people who would love to see all power boats banned from Actually, am in favor of bans in certain places. In others, I have no problem with engines. Where I live, all gas/diesels are banned, and it's great. Other places where I sail, everyone is welcome. I just know I share a love of the water, and a great number of responsibilities and concerns, with everybody on this newsgroup, and every other boater and pwc enthusiast out on the water. Here's I have no doubt about you. I do have doubts about many pwc entusiasts. They seem to be there for the machismo. One finds them on land also, mostly on the freeways, going 95. another question: out of pwc's versus boaters at large, which group more often has a beer in the hand of every person you seem to see on a vessel underway? How about this: which group has a greater percentage They just drink before they leave the ramp? Who knows? They have to wear a vest because it's the law. A large percentage of sailors wear them because it's smart. Some don't, but most do, at least where I sail. They're not required to by law. of always having life vests on? There is stupidity, irresposnbility, and dangerous, illegal behavior perpretrated by boaters of ALL STRIPES on all sizes and shapes of boats, but it is WRONG and UNFAIR to prejudicially make statements painting all those boaters with the same brush based on the behavior of the idiotic ones. It is just wrong. I agree. However, I don't want noisy, polluting machines buzzing around me, and there are a large percentage of pwc'ers who fit the bill on that. And "banning" any type of vehicle based on the illegal behavior of whatever percentage of its users, is even more wrong....you just might not know it yet if hasn't affected you personaly with your "choice of toy." They're not banned exclusively on that basis. They're banned for all the other reasons I mentioned. Being a jerk isn't illegal. How about this hypothetical... would you be willing to completely ban those who continue to drive the noisy, polluting machines that dominate the current situation? I think that would be a reasonable compromise. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
#10
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Jet Ski overheating problem
How about this hypothetical... would you be willing to completely ban
those who continue to drive the noisy, polluting machines that dominate the current situation? I think that would be a reasonable compromise. This is a little ambiguous....as far as the machines themselves, this is more of a regulation on the manufacturers than on the owners/riders. I support environmental regulations that require improved greenliness and fuel efficiency of new boats being manufactured and sold, but of course traditionally this doesn't mean that the older boats that were manufactured, sold and purchased legally before such requirements were enacted, suddenly have their access rights taken away. This way, the trend is towards ever cleaner, less-polluting, more-fuel-efficient and less-noisy boats out on the water. No, I don't think it would be fair to retroactively ban boats that had previously been bought - although, my main thing is always, don't single out pwc's; if you did the same thing to noisy, polluting, dirty boats of all shapes and sizes, then I at least couldn't cry discrimination against pwc's. 'Course, then that would mean the whole boating community would all be joined together in their outrage, instead of different segments of us bickering among ourselves here, and we'd probably have enough strength to prevent such a blatantly unfair thing from happening. (When the enviro-extremists start with a much easier target, pwc'ers alone, an easier target because so many people have long-ago-formed prejudiced stereotyped outdated impressions of us and our boats, we're a much tinier and less powerful group...although we have still been winning against them when the scientific evidence inevitably comes in.) Now, when you say, "ban those who continue to drive"....I and every other intelligent, responsible, law-abiding, clear-thinking pwc'er and boater, think that laws against irresponsible, dangerous behavior on the water should be strictly enforced, violators punished, and who knows, possibly after enough trespasses, their boating privileges revoked just like can happen on land. (Of course, unfairly, it's only we pwc'ers who now require any kind of license at all to operate our boats at all, and then only in some states...it's a good idea, but common sense tells me the same should be required for any boat of any shape or size.) I'm probably biased because I'm a boater, but I think society should allocate as a high priority the enforcement of marine law. So sure, bust and, if they do it enough times, "ban" every boater who's drunk or drinking on the water, every cigarette boat guy zooming dangerously among boat traffic at unsafe speeds, and every pwc'er that violates the rules about how close to other boaters or swimmers or the shore they can be operating. As it is, a lot of pwc'ers feel discriminated by marine law enforcers who seem predisposed to enforce against us disproportionately, harrassing us with frequent spot checks and seemingly arbirtary pullovers, while a lot of other obviously dangerous illegal boating stuff is happening all around us....but I'm sure that's just paranoia....not the result of people's personal prejudices, irrational dislike and (in some cases, maybe) jealousy of us with our machines and how much fun we're having. Anyway...sorry....is that what you meant? richforman |
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