Bill McKee wrote:
"ladysailor" wrote in message
ups.com...

You're right, I take off my hat and gloves when I'm being harassed by
obnoxious morons and turn straight away into a ****ed off sailor.



Probably like a lot if sailors, you turn when ever you want, and then yell
at a power boat for impeding you.


If you don't like the collision regulations, sell that stinkpot and take
up golf.

In article .com,
wrote:
Why do you get to dictate what we're talking about; why does the
bad behavior you're willing to talk about only includes excessive speed
and pollution? Both of which are perpetrated by every other shape
and size of power boats besides pwc's.

I don't know... the tide is heading out? I can't think of anything
positive to say about PWCs. Sorry. The subject of the thread is jet
skis. So, I'm commenting on what I think it appropriate on that
subject.

I am talking about singling out pwc's among boaters at large (not
sailboats)
as being uniquely predisposed to annoying, stupid, dangerous, illegal
behavior; and also

They are and I am. Sorry, but it's a fact. I know you don't want to
acknowledge that there is a huge problem, but there is. That's why
some places have banned them I suppose.

about extending the incidences of such behavior that one has observed,
to make generalizations
about entire segments of the boating community. Doing so (singling out
pwc's, etc.) is just

Well, you've been doing the same thing... feel free to stop saying
that from your observation most PWCers are ok folks who respect
others.

incorrect, inaccurate, unfair, insulting to me and my many responsible,
safe, educated boating
friends who sometimes ride pwc's, and is also apparently indicative of
blinders that stop somebody
frrom acknowledging the too-large percentages (but still probably,
hopefully, not a MAJORITY) of all segments of the power-boating
community who are guilty of these things...not just pwc'ers.

Blinders? I have sails man. Get with it.

Does it have to be a majority of ****heal PWCers? How about 49%? All I
know is that a huge percentage of them drive polluting, noise
machines, and are not interested in quiet enjoyment.

You say you're not addressing me individually, but I'm not just
speaking in defense of myself, also of ALL the dozens of regular
pwc'ers who I know, talk to and ride with, over the last eight years or
so....we all follow the rules, mind our own business, are
out to have a safe good time, know our stuff out on the water, and do

Umm.... I thought we're not supposed to talk about one's
observations. I guess it's ok for you though.

things with our crafts way beyond your stereotyped
outdated impressions of what people do on pwc's. ALL of them. Don't
you know any pwc'ers personally? If so, do they
all conform to your impressions about how most of us supposedly behave?
Or are you so hardened in your prejudice that yuo
wouldn't even deign to associate with a pwc rider?

Never said all. You did.

It's ONLY the Newbies who do the stupid stuff, I did it when I started
out, but you learn the ropes quickly enough.

Only? Come on! It's only the newbie sailors who stupidly go out in bad
weather. It's only the newbie sailors who die trying to cross an ocean
or who's boat breaks because they didn't get around to doing the
maintenance.

TO say that the fact that a person is on a pwc tells you all this about
his personality (I don't know if it was you who said

Tells me a lot... until proven otherwise. It's always a pleasure to
see a PWC not buzzing an anchorage and not going 20 kts too close to a
sailboat.

that, it was said earlier in this thread), that they're egoticstical,
rude, show-offs, unconcerned with others, speed junkies,
is just outrageous and stupid to boot.

Well, you said it. I didn't.

IN fact, I'd say the only thing you could deduce about somebody who has
a pwc vs. someone with a bigger boat
is that the pwc guy probably has a little less money. They're

Bigger? What about a smaller sailboat boat?

cigar boats) that zoom around, but not in an anchorage, because they
know better.

Now you're just showing your die-hard, inflexible, anti-pwc prejudice
loud and clear.

Why's that? Am I not allowed to be annoyed by bad behavior? Who the
f*ck made you god?

of the road, and who DRINK WHILE BOATING CONSTANTLY....almost EVERYBODY

What is up with this drinkin and drivin thing? I just don't get that?
What point are you trying to make?

By the way....are you saying above that you don't think there are many,
many boaters
in your area who are drinking while they're boating and go untouched by
law enforcement? That it's

I'm saying that they are not very obvious if they are drinking and
driving. I'd say that the vast majority don't drink and drive, just
like the vast majority of car owners don't.

That I'd have to see to believe.

Well, you need to get out more... well, I take that back. You have a
PWC.

Oh no... here comes the missing sense of humor.....


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

In article .com,
wrote:
don't single out pwc's; if you did the same thing to noisy, polluting,
dirty boats of all shapes and sizes, then I at least couldn't cry
discrimination against pwc's.

I'm not specifically singling out pwcs, except that they're a huge
cause of the problem. You don't get very many sailboats buzzing
anchorages with noisy engines and endangering lives in the process

We seem to be talking past each other on this point: you keep bringing
up sailboats
and I keep saying I"m talking about pwc's and other power boats. In
fact I've already
conceded that sail boaters probably cause fewer problems and in general
behave better.
I'm making the point that pwc's and their operators are not very
different from any other kind of POWER BOATS.
All right, sail boats have engines so maybe they're power boats, but
you know what I mean. NOT SAIL BOATS!

And, I'm making the point that pwcs and their operators are very
different that the other power boats. Most powerboat operators don't
buzz around the anchorages. Most actually try to avoid causing
problems or annoying others. That hasn't been my experience with
*most* PWCers. Sure, some people are good, some people are bad. My
point is that a much larger perecentage of PWCers have little or no
respect for others. I could cite example after example, but you
consider that acedotal evidence, yet you also say that the PWCers you
know are ok.



--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

In article et,
Bill McKee bmckee=at-ix.netcom.com wrote:

"ladysailor" wrote in message
oups.com...
You're right, I take off my hat and gloves when I'm being harassed by
obnoxious morons and turn straight away into a ****ed off sailor.


Probably like a lot if sailors, you turn when ever you want, and then yell
at a power boat for impeding you.

Suggestion: Get a copy of the Colregs and the Rules of the Road,
specifically. Then, get back to us.



--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Bill McKee wrote:
Probably like a lot if sailors, you turn when ever you want, and then
yell at a power boat for impeding you.

Probably like a lot of motorboaters, you have no clue what's involved in
sailing, and think that all boats can be driven like a car.

DSK


I know what is involved with sailing. Married a good sailors daughter and
used to windsurf. But too many "sailors" figure they have the right of way
as they have a sailboat. I have had "sailors" do a 90 degree in front of me
when lifting the sails and the iron sail is still running, and then yell at
me. They would yell even louder if I collided with them and when they had
to pay enormous sums of money to me.

In article ,
DSK wrote:
Bill McKee wrote:
Probably like a lot if sailors, you turn when ever you want, and then yell
at a power boat for impeding you.


Probably like a lot of motorboaters, you have no clue what's involved in
sailing, and think that all boats can be driven like a car.

Come on Doug, be fair. Some sailboats have wheels.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

In article ,
Don White wrote:
Probably like a lot if sailors, you turn when ever you want, and then yell
at a power boat for impeding you.


If you don't like the collision regulations, sell that stinkpot and take
up golf.

Don, please don't ruin golf for us....


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Don White" wrote in message
...
Bill McKee wrote:
"ladysailor" wrote in message
ups.com...

You're right, I take off my hat and gloves when I'm being harassed by
obnoxious morons and turn straight away into a ****ed off sailor.



Probably like a lot if sailors, you turn when ever you want, and then
yell at a power boat for impeding you.
If you don't like the collision regulations, sell that stinkpot and take
up golf.

Another "sailor". It is also up to the sailboat to avoid a collision. I
have heard "sailors" declare they have the right of way over a tanker
entering the Golden Gate. There is no right of way, and the tanker has
preference, and if they collide, the sailor's estate may have to pay to fix
the scratches in the paint of the tankers hull.

In article et,
Bill McKee bmckee=at-ix.netcom.com wrote:

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
Bill McKee wrote:
Probably like a lot if sailors, you turn when ever you want, and then
yell at a power boat for impeding you.

Probably like a lot of motorboaters, you have no clue what's involved in
sailing, and think that all boats can be driven like a car.

DSK


I know what is involved with sailing. Married a good sailors daughter and
used to windsurf. But too many "sailors" figure they have the right of way
as they have a sailboat. I have had "sailors" do a 90 degree in front of me
when lifting the sails and the iron sail is still running, and then yell at
me. They would yell even louder if I collided with them and when they had
to pay enormous sums of money to me.

What's your point? If you know the Rules of the Road, there's never
much doubt about who should give way.



--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

In article . net,
Bill McKee bmckee=at-ix.netcom.com wrote:

"Don White" wrote in message
...
Bill McKee wrote:
"ladysailor" wrote in message
ups.com...

You're right, I take off my hat and gloves when I'm being harassed by
obnoxious morons and turn straight away into a ****ed off sailor.

Another "sailor". It is also up to the sailboat to avoid a collision. I
have heard "sailors" declare they have the right of way over a tanker
entering the Golden Gate. There is no right of way, and the tanker has
preference, and if they collide, the sailor's estate may have to pay to fix
the scratches in the paint of the tankers hull.

Yep. Except you can leave off the quotes. It's up to everyone to avoid
a collision. Still, you've not made any point here. There are always
stupid people or people who don't know the rules of the road. The
tanker in the bay have stand on status. Other vessels must give
way. Don't worry, if you try to claim stand on status with a tanker,
they'll let you know their preference.

BTW, you usually wouldn't be t-boned by the tanker. Probably the bow
wake would push you aside, then flip the boat around, then you'd smash
into the side of the hull, shattering your boat like an egg. A few
seconds later, the prop would finish the job.



--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com