In article ,
says...

On Sun, 18 Oct 2009 09:21:53 +0200, "Edgar"
wrote:



Vic, if you put auto inflating bags on both gunwhales you will enure that
you will never get her upright again but she will float nice and high while
upside down.

That seems counterintuitive. The gunnel bags would be inflated before
the roll over. If the boat is already turtled or rolling past the
ability of the bag buoyancy to right it when inflated, it would be as
you say. That's a no-no. (-:
But in case you're talking about heavy seas flipping a boat, you're
absolutely right. Bags on the gunnels are worthless.
I was thinking about the more common swamping situations.
Anyway, without thorough testing and an understanding of the
weight/buoyancy dynamics of a particular boat I wouldn't stand by any
contraption I propose.

The Royal National Lifeboat Institution in Uk used to have boats that were
inherently self righting but such a boat does tend to turn over more often
than necessary which is a pain even if it rights itself afterwards.
Modern lifeboats are not inherently self righting but instead have an
automaically inflating buoyancy bag which is centrally mounted in the
superstructure so it exerts maximum righting leverage whichever way she
turns over.

That's similar to the masthead bags for sailboats. Then the problem
becomes righting the boat from a laid down position.
I was thinking that a good system for an open boat would prevent the
capsize due to swamping, and leave only the bailing.
No need to go outside the gunnels.
But on that subject of righting, my recollection of righting small
boats is that once one gunnel is free of the water, the rest of it
goes pretty easy as that side lightens right up as water leaves it.
Then the only issues left are not to let inertia roll it again on the
other side, and getting it bailed out.
The boats I righted always had me standing on the bottom, so muscles
can be well-used.
Totally different than doing it while afloat, which from what I've
seen is darn near impossible without motor power, unless it's a very
light weight boat, even with a crew of strong men.
If I were in the business of righting small boats, I'd carry a rig to
make an A-frame over a capsized hull to get some leverage.
Maybe 10-12 foot scaffolding type tubes. One side has a hook to go
over the offside gunnel, one side a clamp for the nearside gunnel on a
u-joint. Both are joined at the apex, where a line is attached.
Should make it a lot easier to roll the boat back over pulling on the
nearside, whether with a power boat or men in the water.
Man, I wish I lived by that warm Florida water where I could monkey
around with this stuff. That would be fun. If the fishing is slow,
go play with turtled boats.

--Vic

Go over to rec.boats.paddle and ask about "sponson boy". Some idiot out
of Canada that is trying to make inflatable sponsons mandatory for all
small boats. The guy is just a dip**** who thinks he is going to get
rich by making sure any boats that do turn over, can't be righted
snerk.

On Sun, 18 Oct 2009 13:49:56 -0400, Jeff wrote:

Since most un-powered
boats are not registered, its not easy to determine their relative
safety. We'd have to look at hours spent in various types of boats, etc.

There were statistics published sometime in the last couple of years
which showed that deaths in canoes and kayaks were way out of
proportion to their overall numbers. Canoes and kayaks are usually
unregistered of course.

On Sun, 18 Oct 2009 12:46:12 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Totally different than doing it while afloat, which from what I've
seen is darn near impossible without motor power, unless it's a very
light weight boat, even with a crew of strong men.

Strong men turn into weak men pretty quickly in cold water. The best
way is with a work barge and hoist. After the hull is upright the
next challenge is to get the water out before it capsizes again.

On Sun, 18 Oct 2009 15:17:30 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Oct 2009 13:49:56 -0400, Jeff wrote:

Since most un-powered
boats are not registered, its not easy to determine their relative
safety. We'd have to look at hours spent in various types of boats, etc.

There were statistics published sometime in the last couple of years
which showed that deaths in canoes and kayaks were way out of
proportion to their overall numbers. Canoes and kayaks are usually
unregistered of course.

That's not surprising. Seems like an awful lot of people with very
little boating knowledge are buying or renting rotomolded Kayaks and
blithely heading out into dangerous situations. It's become as big a
fad as hula hoops, but a lot more dangerous.

Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 18 Oct 2009 09:21:53 +0200, "Edgar"
wrote:


Vic, if you put auto inflating bags on both gunwhales you will enure that
you will never get her upright again but she will float nice and high while
upside down.

That seems counterintuitive. The gunnel bags would be inflated before
the roll over. If the boat is already turtled or rolling past the
ability of the bag buoyancy to right it when inflated, it would be as
you say. That's a no-no. (-:
But in case you're talking about heavy seas flipping a boat, you're
absolutely right. Bags on the gunnels are worthless.
I was thinking about the more common swamping situations.
Anyway, without thorough testing and an understanding of the
weight/buoyancy dynamics of a particular boat I wouldn't stand by any
contraption I propose.

The Royal National Lifeboat Institution in Uk used to have boats that were
inherently self righting but such a boat does tend to turn over more often
than necessary which is a pain even if it rights itself afterwards.
Modern lifeboats are not inherently self righting but instead have an
automaically inflating buoyancy bag which is centrally mounted in the
superstructure so it exerts maximum righting leverage whichever way she
turns over.

That's similar to the masthead bags for sailboats. Then the problem
becomes righting the boat from a laid down position.
I was thinking that a good system for an open boat would prevent the
capsize due to swamping, and leave only the bailing.
No need to go outside the gunnels.
But on that subject of righting, my recollection of righting small
boats is that once one gunnel is free of the water, the rest of it
goes pretty easy as that side lightens right up as water leaves it.
Then the only issues left are not to let inertia roll it again on the
other side, and getting it bailed out.
The boats I righted always had me standing on the bottom, so muscles
can be well-used.
Totally different than doing it while afloat, which from what I've
seen is darn near impossible without motor power, unless it's a very
light weight boat, even with a crew of strong men.
If I were in the business of righting small boats, I'd carry a rig to
make an A-frame over a capsized hull to get some leverage.
Maybe 10-12 foot scaffolding type tubes. One side has a hook to go
over the offside gunnel, one side a clamp for the nearside gunnel on a
u-joint. Both are joined at the apex, where a line is attached.
Should make it a lot easier to roll the boat back over pulling on the
nearside, whether with a power boat or men in the water.
Man, I wish I lived by that warm Florida water where I could monkey
around with this stuff. That would be fun. If the fishing is slow,
go play with turtled boats.

--Vi


I hope the obamadytes don't get wind of this thread, if they do some
system of righting the boat will be a Federal safety requirment on your
next boat, to protect you from yourself.

In article , says...

Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 18 Oct 2009 09:21:53 +0200, "Edgar"
wrote:


Vic, if you put auto inflating bags on both gunwhales you will enure that
you will never get her upright again but she will float nice and high while
upside down.

That seems counterintuitive. The gunnel bags would be inflated before
the roll over. If the boat is already turtled or rolling past the
ability of the bag buoyancy to right it when inflated, it would be as
you say. That's a no-no. (-:
But in case you're talking about heavy seas flipping a boat, you're
absolutely right. Bags on the gunnels are worthless.
I was thinking about the more common swamping situations.
Anyway, without thorough testing and an understanding of the
weight/buoyancy dynamics of a particular boat I wouldn't stand by any
contraption I propose.

The Royal National Lifeboat Institution in Uk used to have boats that were
inherently self righting but such a boat does tend to turn over more often
than necessary which is a pain even if it rights itself afterwards.
Modern lifeboats are not inherently self righting but instead have an
automaically inflating buoyancy bag which is centrally mounted in the
superstructure so it exerts maximum righting leverage whichever way she
turns over.

That's similar to the masthead bags for sailboats. Then the problem
becomes righting the boat from a laid down position.
I was thinking that a good system for an open boat would prevent the
capsize due to swamping, and leave only the bailing.
No need to go outside the gunnels.
But on that subject of righting, my recollection of righting small
boats is that once one gunnel is free of the water, the rest of it
goes pretty easy as that side lightens right up as water leaves it.
Then the only issues left are not to let inertia roll it again on the
other side, and getting it bailed out.
The boats I righted always had me standing on the bottom, so muscles
can be well-used.
Totally different than doing it while afloat, which from what I've
seen is darn near impossible without motor power, unless it's a very
light weight boat, even with a crew of strong men.
If I were in the business of righting small boats, I'd carry a rig to
make an A-frame over a capsized hull to get some leverage.
Maybe 10-12 foot scaffolding type tubes. One side has a hook to go
over the offside gunnel, one side a clamp for the nearside gunnel on a
u-joint. Both are joined at the apex, where a line is attached.
Should make it a lot easier to roll the boat back over pulling on the
nearside, whether with a power boat or men in the water.
Man, I wish I lived by that warm Florida water where I could monkey
around with this stuff. That would be fun. If the fishing is slow,
go play with turtled boats.

--Vi


I hope the obamadytes don't get wind of this thread, if they do some
system of righting the boat will be a Federal safety requirment on your
next boat, to protect you from yourself.

That is exactly what that idiot from Canada is trying to do. He has been
lobbying our USCG for a long time, and of course if he comes to your
news group, you are in trouble...

"Tosk" wrote in message
...

That is exactly what that idiot from Canada is trying to do. He has been
lobbying our USCG for a long time, and of course if he comes to your
news group, you are in trouble...

No problem. I'll just lobby Canada to require everyone to wear a safety
harness and helmet in the shower, and to ban all staircases.

--
KLC Lewis

WISCONSIN
Where It's So Cool Outside, Nobody Stays Indoors Napping
www.KLCLewisStudios.com

On 10/18/09 3:49 PM, Tosk wrote:


That is exactly what that idiot from Canada is trying to do. He has been
lobbying our USCG for a long time, and of course if he comes to your
news group, you are in trouble...

Don't you have an old rowboat to paint?


--
Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are
conservatives. - John Stuart Mill

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Oct 2009 12:46:12 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Totally different than doing it while afloat, which from what I've
seen is darn near impossible without motor power, unless it's a very
light weight boat, even with a crew of strong men.

Strong men turn into weak men pretty quickly in cold water. The best
way is with a work barge and hoist. After the hull is upright the
next challenge is to get the water out before it capsizes again.


A 13' Whaler is near impossible to right without a large ship and a crane.
Acquaintance flipped his and a week later when it was found, they had to tow
it the 10 miles to the harbor while it was inverted. They could not get
enough leverage to right the boat.

On Sun, 18 Oct 2009 14:56:47 -0500, "KLC Lewis"
wrote:

No problem. I'll just lobby Canada to require everyone to wear a safety
harness and helmet in the shower,

I thought most accidents occurred in the bedroom ?