wrote in news:fufim2het1capo2e7k4p6kitgmq7vhtc3b@
4ax.com:

Oh by the way the EPA problem with 2 strokes is
not so much the oil in the water but in the air.

I wonder how that works?? Oil doesn't evaporate so it's not vapor
pollution. I suppose the tiny bit of smoke trailing an outboard motor is
pollution, probably .00000001% of what pours out of a single smoke stack
at your electric plant, 24/7/365.

Dead out on the river, 20 miles from the trailer, I want the simplest 2-
stroke outboard with the fewest failing parts that a guy standing in the
mud behind it along the banks can figure out what's wrong and patch it up
to get home. No valves, no belts, minimal pumps, simple carburetion,
hand startable (if necessary)....the motor with the fewest failure modes
almost anyone with any sense can get running. A 2-stroke needs:
A - Fuel
B - Spark
C - Cooling
D - Prop

Everything else is fluff.

Every one of them needs a primer bulb, a fantastic troubleshooting tool
for the fuel system and emergency fuel pump if the diaphram fails in
their pulse pump. It amazes me the number of people who just sit there
staring into it and don't THINK about what that little bulb can tell them
if they'd just pump it and think about what is happening. I've helped
lots of stranded boaters with it. "Pump the bulb for me.", I ask. "It
squeezes but doesn't come back out.", he says. "Turn on the fuel shutoff
valve.", I say...and away they go. "It pumps real easy.", he says.
"Here, let me loan you some gas.", I respond. "It pumps and I see gas in
the water behind the motor.", he says. "Your fuel pump diaphram has a
hole in it pumping gas into one cylinder, flooding it....or the carb
float is stuck. Pull the cover and we'll bypass the pump. You can
squeeze the bulb while running it home." So easy....even on a carb'd 4-
stroker.

Impossible to fix on fuel injection and other high tech nonsense....

Larry
--
Guess what I want to do with the Little Drummer Boy's drum
by Christmas Eve....rrrrump..pa-pum...pum...up his bum....

Larry,
I guess that you have not noticed that:
A-Logic has little to do with environmental regulations.
B-Much of the world is trying anything they can to shut down the best
economy in the history of the world.

The old 2 strokes were dirty engines. (I did some of the testing.) Their
hydrocarbon emissions were outrageous. Anything that gets lubricated
like an old 2-stroke won't wear out any time soon, but I have been on a
could of mountain lakes that had an oil slick the likes of a tanker
spill.
For calibration, when I was working in one of those labs, the crew that
was doing the evaporative emissions testing put the office Christmas
tree into one of the evap sheds - It Didn't Pass -

Many of the world's vocal liberals are very down on the good old USofA
because we have something like 10% of the population and use 30% of the
fossil fuel. They don't happen to notice that this produces 40+% of the
worlds productivity and 15% of the worlds pollution*. (*Not including
CO2) (The quoted statistics are close but not exact.)

China has not been asked to reduce anything and they are still running
wood fired steam locomotives and have the fastest declining air quality
in the world. It is so bad that some coaches are expecting to have to
shut some of the events at the next Olympics down because of the
pollution.

Why do you think Motorcycles are now required to have catalytic
converters?

Why do liberals think that a Hybrid vehicle is a better answer than a
diesel?

Why do they make noise about dependence on foreign oil and not let
anybody go get what we have. (Canada has wells in most of the great
lakes - we aren't allowed to, Cuba will soon be using Chinese
investment to drill under the Florida straight - we can't do that either.)

Matt Colie - environmentally conscious but educated and realistic


Larry wrote:
wrote in news:fufim2het1capo2e7k4p6kitgmq7vhtc3b@
4ax.com:


Oh by the way the EPA problem with 2 strokes is
not so much the oil in the water but in the air.


I wonder how that works?? Oil doesn't evaporate so it's not vapor
pollution. I suppose the tiny bit of smoke trailing an outboard motor is
pollution, probably .00000001% of what pours out of a single smoke stack
at your electric plant, 24/7/365.

Dead out on the river, 20 miles from the trailer, I want the simplest 2-
stroke outboard with the fewest failing parts that a guy standing in the
mud behind it along the banks can figure out what's wrong and patch it up
to get home. No valves, no belts, minimal pumps, simple carburetion,
hand startable (if necessary)....the motor with the fewest failure modes
almost anyone with any sense can get running. A 2-stroke needs:
A - Fuel
B - Spark
C - Cooling
D - Prop

Everything else is fluff.

Every one of them needs a primer bulb, a fantastic troubleshooting tool
for the fuel system and emergency fuel pump if the diaphram fails in
their pulse pump. It amazes me the number of people who just sit there
staring into it and don't THINK about what that little bulb can tell them
if they'd just pump it and think about what is happening. I've helped
lots of stranded boaters with it. "Pump the bulb for me.", I ask. "It
squeezes but doesn't come back out.", he says. "Turn on the fuel shutoff
valve.", I say...and away they go. "It pumps real easy.", he says.
"Here, let me loan you some gas.", I respond. "It pumps and I see gas in
the water behind the motor.", he says. "Your fuel pump diaphram has a
hole in it pumping gas into one cylinder, flooding it....or the carb
float is stuck. Pull the cover and we'll bypass the pump. You can
squeeze the bulb while running it home." So easy....even on a carb'd 4-
stroker.

Impossible to fix on fuel injection and other high tech nonsense....

Larry

"Matt Colie" wrote in message
...
Why do they make noise about dependence on foreign oil and not let anybody
go get what we have. (Canada has wells in most of the great lakes - we
aren't allowed to, Cuba will soon be using Chinese investment to drill
under the Florida straight - we can't do that either.)

Matt Colie - environmentally conscious but educated and realistic



I'm all for energy-independence, but I cannot believe that oil wells on our
Great Lakes would be a good idea. Oil spills from rigs on the oceans are bad
enough -- but similar spills on the Lakes would be disasterous.

"KLC Lewis" wrote in
:

I'm all for energy-independence, but I cannot believe that oil wells
on our Great Lakes would be a good idea. Oil spills from rigs on the
oceans are bad enough -- but similar spills on the Lakes would be
disasterous.



Some of the finest fishing on the planet is right under those oil rigs in
the Gulf of Mexico....a whole new ecosystem that's just thriving....
all the way to the bottom!

http://www.thejump.net/fishingarticl...gged-reefs.htm
http://www.marshmission.com/coastal_...t/volume12.htm
http://www.gomr.mms.gov/homepg/regul...viron/rigs-to-
reefs/information.html
.....to name a few.


Larry
--
Guess what I want to do with the Little Drummer Boy's drum
by Christmas Eve....rrrrump..pa-pum...pum...up his bum....

"Larry" wrote in message
...
"KLC Lewis" wrote in
:

I'm all for energy-independence, but I cannot believe that oil wells
on our Great Lakes would be a good idea. Oil spills from rigs on the
oceans are bad enough -- but similar spills on the Lakes would be
disasterous.



Some of the finest fishing on the planet is right under those oil rigs in
the Gulf of Mexico....a whole new ecosystem that's just thriving....
all the way to the bottom!

http://www.thejump.net/fishingarticl...gged-reefs.htm
http://www.marshmission.com/coastal_...t/volume12.htm
http://www.gomr.mms.gov/homepg/regul...viron/rigs-to-
reefs/information.html
....to name a few.


Larry
--
Guess what I want to do with the Little Drummer Boy's drum
by Christmas Eve....rrrrump..pa-pum...pum...up his bum....

Sure, plant the rigs as artificial reefs and don't drill. That's fine with
me.

On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 14:47:57 -0600, in message

"KLC Lewis" wrote:


"Matt Colie" wrote in message
...
Why do they make noise about dependence on foreign oil and not let anybody
go get what we have. (Canada has wells in most of the great lakes - we
aren't allowed to, Cuba will soon be using Chinese investment to drill
under the Florida straight - we can't do that either.)

Matt Colie - environmentally conscious but educated and realistic



I'm all for energy-independence, but I cannot believe that oil wells on our
Great Lakes would be a good idea. Oil spills from rigs on the oceans are bad
enough -- but similar spills on the Lakes would be disasterous.

Whose Great Lakes? Keep in mind that we share them with the US. Or are
you posting from the US and speaking only of Lake Michigan?

There's already plenty of wellheads under Lake Erie where the shallow
depths make drilling quite easy and Lake Erie is in way better shape
than it was 40 years ago.

Ryk

"Ryk" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 14:47:57 -0600, in message

"KLC Lewis" wrote:


I'm all for energy-independence, but I cannot believe that oil wells on
our
Great Lakes would be a good idea. Oil spills from rigs on the oceans are
bad
enough -- but similar spills on the Lakes would be disasterous.

Whose Great Lakes? Keep in mind that we share them with the US. Or are
you posting from the US and speaking only of Lake Michigan?

There's already plenty of wellheads under Lake Erie where the shallow
depths make drilling quite easy and Lake Erie is in way better shape
than it was 40 years ago.

Ryk



By "our Great Lakes," I was referring to humanity. But, of humanity,
naturally Americans come first. Just ask any of our politicians.

KLC,

I don't like the thought of spills either, but three Canadian companies
have a total of 450+ wells for both oil and natural gas in Lake Erie
alone. They seem to manage just fine (with gear and technology from
American suppliers).

Recently, I was told by someone that has studied these problems for many
years that most of the oil on Lake Erie comes from untrapped storm
drains. The last big one was the Rouge River about three years ago.

We have the opportunity to correct a lot of problems if we pick the real
ones instead of the "politically correct" ones.

This has been my problem with the "evironmental movement" since they
forced cars to get much reduced fuel economy in favor of maginally
reduced tailpipe emissions. Remember the early cat cars of the mid
seventies?

Matt


KLC Lewis wrote:
"Matt Colie" wrote in message
...

Why do they make noise about dependence on foreign oil and not let anybody
go get what we have. (Canada has wells in most of the great lakes - we
aren't allowed to, Cuba will soon be using Chinese investment to drill
under the Florida straight - we can't do that either.)

Matt Colie - environmentally conscious but educated and realistic




I'm all for energy-independence, but I cannot believe that oil wells on our
Great Lakes would be a good idea. Oil spills from rigs on the oceans are bad
enough -- but similar spills on the Lakes would be disasterous.

Exactly. You can't force technology faster just to meet an arbitrary goal
dreamed up by a beaurocrat.
And the sick thing about it is that whoever dreamed up those regs goes to
bed thinking "I saved the world again today".

"Matt Colie" wrote in message
...

This has been my problem with the "evironmental movement" since they
forced cars to get much reduced fuel economy in favor of maginally reduced
tailpipe emissions. Remember the early cat cars of the mid seventies?

Matt

Garland Gray II wrote:
Exactly. You can't force technology faster just to meet an arbitrary goal
dreamed up by a beaurocrat.
And the sick thing about it is that whoever dreamed up those regs goes to
bed thinking "I saved the world again today".



Well regardless, the technology caught up and cars get roughly double
the fuel economy as they got in the 70s, have much cleaner emissions,
and many are far more powerful too.