"mike worrall" wrote in message
m...
I've discovered a few sites on the 'Net selling 25lb bags for $15, but
am hoping that the assembled brain-trust can suggest a less expensive
option.

Mike, try going to a trap range. If you explain what you want it for, they
may let you collect all you want for free. There is a local sportsman's
club that has a range and you can go out and scoop up handfuls (or shovel
fulls) of mostly #8 shot. You will get some dirt and debris mixed in, but
that can be sifted out fairly easily if it bothers you. Mixed with a little
epoxy, it makes a great slurry that will flow just about anywhere. Good
luck.

Regards,
Kevin Fitz-Gerald
"Have ShopBot, Will Create!"

It's hard finding lead keel casting information. If you don't mind what did you
use to melt the lead? Used iron bathtubs seem to be unavailable where I live
and I was thinking of having a 2'by 2' steel box made out of 3/16 or 1/4 plate.
I was also wondering if renting a couple of propane burners that use the common
18 pound tanks would be enough. Any suggestions about this plan?

I am restoring a 43 year old Dutch built 26' sloop. It has a 1200 pound iron
keel and 650 pounds of inside lead ballast. It is a keel centerboard design and
the keel is in rough shape and keeping it from rusting in salt water I think
would be an unending chore (the centerboard slot is the source of most
problems).

If I replace the iron with a lead keel of identical dimensions I could eliminate
the inside ballast and not have to deal with rusting. The inside ballast was
added by the designer ( I suppose after complaints about tenderness) and is
penciled in on the factory plans.

JJ



On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 13:55:02 -0400, "Kevin Fitz-Gerald"
wrote:

"mike worrall" wrote in message
om...
I've discovered a few sites on the 'Net selling 25lb bags for $15, but
am hoping that the assembled brain-trust can suggest a less expensive
option.

Mike, try going to a trap range. If you explain what you want it for, they
may let you collect all you want for free. There is a local sportsman's
club that has a range and you can go out and scoop up handfuls (or shovel
fulls) of mostly #8 shot. You will get some dirt and debris mixed in, but
that can be sifted out fairly easily if it bothers you. Mixed with a little
epoxy, it makes a great slurry that will flow just about anywhere. Good
luck.

Regards,
Kevin Fitz-Gerald
"Have ShopBot, Will Create!"


James Johnson
remove the "dot" from after sail in email address to reply

You are looking at a little less than 3 cubic feet of lead. The top
half of a 55 gallon drum would work but you will need some strong
bracing around the base. I say top half because it has the fitting for
a drum valve. You will need to rig a way to pull the valve open when
the melt is ready and a length of 4x4 angle iron for a trough to run the
lead to the mold.

A fish cooker type burner will not cut it. You really need something
with forced air like a tar pot burner and a 40 lb tank of propane
minimum. If the tanks have OPDs with flow restrictors use two 40s tied
together to keep up with the burner. 100 lb tanks are better because
they don't require OPDs and you can pull gas as fast as you need. It
will probably not take more than 15-20 lbs to do the melt but the gas is
drawn off very fast which chills the tank and drops the pressure. 20 lb
tanks will freeze up and you will stall out about half way through the
melt.

Another hint: When the melt is almost ready to pour, stir it with a
freshly cut straight green wood stick. I use crape myrtle. The stick
will start to make a singing sound and all the trash and dross will
magically rise to the top.

Also, if you are casting a fin, do not use bullet or shielding lead.
Pure lead is fine for internal balast but to soft for fins. It needs
antimony to strengthen it. Wheel weights have about 3% antimony and
will produce a good strong fin, at least in ths size you are casting.
My 5' high 9,000 fin required 4% antimony.


James Johnson wrote:
It's hard finding lead keel casting information. If you don't mind what did you
use to melt the lead? Used iron bathtubs seem to be unavailable where I live
and I was thinking of having a 2'by 2' steel box made out of 3/16 or 1/4 plate.
I was also wondering if renting a couple of propane burners that use the common
18 pound tanks would be enough. Any suggestions about this plan?

I am restoring a 43 year old Dutch built 26' sloop. It has a 1200 pound iron
keel and 650 pounds of inside lead ballast. It is a keel centerboard design and
the keel is in rough shape and keeping it from rusting in salt water I think
would be an unending chore (the centerboard slot is the source of most
problems).

If I replace the iron with a lead keel of identical dimensions I could eliminate
the inside ballast and not have to deal with rusting. The inside ballast was
added by the designer ( I suppose after complaints about tenderness) and is
penciled in on the factory plans.

JJ



On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 13:55:02 -0400, "Kevin Fitz-Gerald"
wrote:


"mike worrall" wrote in message
. com...

I've discovered a few sites on the 'Net selling 25lb bags for $15, but
am hoping that the assembled brain-trust can suggest a less expensive
option.

Mike, try going to a trap range. If you explain what you want it for, they
may let you collect all you want for free. There is a local sportsman's
club that has a range and you can go out and scoop up handfuls (or shovel
fulls) of mostly #8 shot. You will get some dirt and debris mixed in, but
that can be sifted out fairly easily if it bothers you. Mixed with a little
epoxy, it makes a great slurry that will flow just about anywhere. Good
luck.

Regards,
Kevin Fitz-Gerald
"Have ShopBot, Will Create!"



James Johnson
remove the "dot" from after sail in email address to reply

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"James Johnson" writes:
It's hard finding lead keel casting information. If you don't mind what
did you
use to melt the lead?
snip

I don't know where you are located, but I no longer need my melting
equipment including ingot molds that produce 30 # pigs.

Have 2, 500,000 BTU propane burners and a melting pot that holds about 900
lbs.

If interested, I'm in Los Angeles.

Lew

Unfortunately I'm in Maryland, the freight costs would probably make the total
cost prohibitive. Otherwise I would be very interested.

In answering questions on several other replies:

The point about trim is valid but the penciled in changes to the factory
blueprints have the weight distribution (it specifies what weight to be put
where) pretty much matches that of the external ballast keel, and several other
owners who removed the ballast to lighten the boat for afternoon racing reported
that the boat was excessively tender but trim was OK.

I'm wondering if the design was originally drawn up for lead and the yard
substituted iron, and went back to the designer after complaints for advice.
The factory blueprints don't spec the weight of the external ballast, but the
internal ballast is detailed. The boat was built by Werf Gusto in Holland in
1961 and designed by Bill Tripp. The blueprints are in Dutch but the internal
ballast is penciled in English.

The shape of the external ballast is about 4' or so long, around 8" high, and 8"
wide with a 1" centerboard slot making it look like a stretched 'U', so cautions
about alloys for fins (with their high bending loads) I don't think would apply.
I was going to pull the keel anyway to inspect/replace the keel bolts because of
the amount of rust at the hull joint.

To drain the lead from the melting pot I was thinking about something I read
about by Larry Pardey. He used a cast iron bathtub and had a plumbing pipe
elbow welded to the drain. Screwed into the elbow was an 'L' shaped piece of
water pipe. He used a chain to lower one end of the 'L' to start the pour, and
raised it to stop it, with the 'L' rotating by the threads at the elbow. His
book about classic boat construction is one of the few references I found.

JJ


On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 16:40:52 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:


"James Johnson" writes:
It's hard finding lead keel casting information. If you don't mind what
did you
use to melt the lead?
snip

I don't know where you are located, but I no longer need my melting
equipment including ingot molds that produce 30 # pigs.

Have 2, 500,000 BTU propane burners and a melting pot that holds about 900
lbs.

If interested, I'm in Los Angeles.

Lew



James Johnson
remove the "dot" from after sail in email address to reply

James Johnson wrote:


The shape of the external ballast is about 4' or so long, around 8" high, and 8"
wide with a 1" centerboard slot making it look like a stretched 'U', so cautions
about alloys for fins (with their high bending loads) I don't think would apply.
I was going to pull the keel anyway to inspect/replace the keel bolts because of
the amount of rust at the hull joint.

I would still go for at least 50% wheel weights. As I said pure lead is
very soft and if the external keel is bolted on, the normal movement
will wallow out the lead around the bolts/washers and cause the
keel/hull joint to open. 50% wheel weight lead mixed with miscellaneous
scrap will insure you get 1.5 to 2% antimony and harden it up enough to
prevent that.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"James Johnson" writes:

would probably make the total
cost prohibitive. Otherwise I would be very interested.

Then find an asphalt contractor who does parking lots.

They use a 500,000 BTU hand held burner /w/ a hose connected to a 20 lb
propane bottle to seal the edges of the asphalt joints.

Find out who sells them in your area. About $60 will get you the whole
thing.

SFWIW, a 500,000 BTU burner is just about minimum if you expect to get
anything done, based on my experience.

IMHO, screw any cobbled together molten lead control valves.

They are destined to be a bigger PITA than they are worth.

Buy a plumber's ladle, it holds about 8 lbs of molten lead, and ladle the
lead from the molten pot directly into the mold.

(If you can believe it, I probably did close to 30,000 lbs this way, one
ladle at a time.)

Working with molten lead can be a little tricky.

It transitions from solid to liquid rather slowly.

It transitions from liquid to solid very quickly, but is still very
dangerous if not handled properly.

A 500,000 BTU flame thrower working for you settles a lot of problems before
they develop.

A word of CAUTION:

NEVER IMPINGE A OPEN FLAME DIRECTLY ON LEAD.

NEVER.

Find a piece of angle iron, 4"x4"x1/4"x48"-60" long.

Weld in 1/4" dividers on 12" intervals.

The above ingot mold will produce 30 lb triangular lead pigs, 12" long, that
can be stacked in an interlocked pattern for trim ballast.

HTH

Lew

I'm also wondering if some of internal ballast isn't in there for TRIM. I
pesonally would'nt put all the lead into the pot. You might have to add
more internal to get back to your water lines. Just a thought.
terry

James Johnson wrote:


If I replace the iron with a lead keel of identical dimensions I could eliminate
the inside ballast and not have to deal with rusting. The inside ballast was
added by the designer ( I suppose after complaints about tenderness) and is
penciled in on the factory plans.


Yes, but there may be an advantage to being able to alter the ballast
depending on the how the boat is loaded. Might get you off of a mud bank
someday if you can remove some of the ballast.

Might get you off of a mud bank
someday if you can remove some of the ballast.

WWWWWHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT TTTTTTTTTTT?????????????
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???

what a stew ped suggestion. Are your smoking feriously ducking soop?