James Johnson wrote:


The shape of the external ballast is about 4' or so long, around 8" high, and 8"
wide with a 1" centerboard slot making it look like a stretched 'U', so cautions
about alloys for fins (with their high bending loads) I don't think would apply.
I was going to pull the keel anyway to inspect/replace the keel bolts because of
the amount of rust at the hull joint.

I would still go for at least 50% wheel weights. As I said pure lead is
very soft and if the external keel is bolted on, the normal movement
will wallow out the lead around the bolts/washers and cause the
keel/hull joint to open. 50% wheel weight lead mixed with miscellaneous
scrap will insure you get 1.5 to 2% antimony and harden it up enough to
prevent that.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Glenn says:

I would still go for at least 50% wheel weights.

snip a little

50% wheel weight lead mixed with miscellaneous
scrap will insure you get 1.5 to 2% antimony and harden it up enough to
prevent that.

Heed this man - he speaks sense and wisdom born of practical experience. Any
good foundry will tell you the same, as will any builder or designer. You do
NOT want your keel falling off....

Steve
Stephen C. Baker - Yacht Designer
http://members.aol.com/SailDesign/pr...cbweb/home.htm

"James Johnson" writes:

would probably make the total
cost prohibitive. Otherwise I would be very interested.

Then find an asphalt contractor who does parking lots.

They use a 500,000 BTU hand held burner /w/ a hose connected to a 20 lb
propane bottle to seal the edges of the asphalt joints.

Find out who sells them in your area. About $60 will get you the whole
thing.

SFWIW, a 500,000 BTU burner is just about minimum if you expect to get
anything done, based on my experience.

IMHO, screw any cobbled together molten lead control valves.

They are destined to be a bigger PITA than they are worth.

Buy a plumber's ladle, it holds about 8 lbs of molten lead, and ladle the
lead from the molten pot directly into the mold.

(If you can believe it, I probably did close to 30,000 lbs this way, one
ladle at a time.)

Working with molten lead can be a little tricky.

It transitions from solid to liquid rather slowly.

It transitions from liquid to solid very quickly, but is still very
dangerous if not handled properly.

A 500,000 BTU flame thrower working for you settles a lot of problems before
they develop.

A word of CAUTION:

NEVER IMPINGE A OPEN FLAME DIRECTLY ON LEAD.

NEVER.

Find a piece of angle iron, 4"x4"x1/4"x48"-60" long.

Weld in 1/4" dividers on 12" intervals.

The above ingot mold will produce 30 lb triangular lead pigs, 12" long, that
can be stacked in an interlocked pattern for trim ballast.

HTH

Lew

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 16:29:26 -0400, Glenn Ashmore wrote:



James Johnson wrote:


The shape of the external ballast is about 4' or so long, around 8" high, and 8"
wide with a 1" centerboard slot making it look like a stretched 'U', so cautions
about alloys for fins (with their high bending loads) I don't think would apply.
I was going to pull the keel anyway to inspect/replace the keel bolts because of
the amount of rust at the hull joint.

Thanks Glenn for that tip. I was planning on going the wheel weight route for
cost reasons. I'll also keep your points in mind for why I shouldn't just go
out and buy scrap lead.

JJ


I would still go for at least 50% wheel weights. As I said pure lead is
very soft and if the external keel is bolted on, the normal movement
will wallow out the lead around the bolts/washers and cause the
keel/hull joint to open. 50% wheel weight lead mixed with miscellaneous
scrap will insure you get 1.5 to 2% antimony and harden it up enough to
prevent that.

James Johnson
remove the "dot" from after sail in email address to reply

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 00:27:45 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

"James Johnson" writes:

would probably make the total
cost prohibitive. Otherwise I would be very interested.

Then find an asphalt contractor who does parking lots.

They use a 500,000 BTU hand held burner /w/ a hose connected to a 20 lb
propane bottle to seal the edges of the asphalt joints.

Find out who sells them in your area. About $60 will get you the whole
thing.

SFWIW, a 500,000 BTU burner is just about minimum if you expect to get
anything done, based on my experience.

Thanks for the tip. I will look for one of those.


IMHO, screw any cobbled together molten lead control valves.

They are destined to be a bigger PITA than they are worth.

Buy a plumber's ladle, it holds about 8 lbs of molten lead, and ladle the
lead from the molten pot directly into the mold.


How long did that take? And did your arms look like Popeye's when you were
done? ;-)

Thank goodness I am only thinking about casting 1850 pounds.


(If you can believe it, I probably did close to 30,000 lbs this way, one
ladle at a time.)

Working with molten lead can be a little tricky.

It transitions from solid to liquid rather slowly.

It transitions from liquid to solid very quickly, but is still very
dangerous if not handled properly.

The largest lead casting I have done has been 40 pound centerboard weights for a
sailing dingy, and I noticed that behavior.


A 500,000 BTU flame thrower working for you settles a lot of problems before
they develop.

A word of CAUTION:

NEVER IMPINGE A OPEN FLAME DIRECTLY ON LEAD.

I suppose this is for avoiding the breathing of lead fumes? When I did the
dinghy weights I used an air supplied respirator, flame retardant coveralls,
welders gloves, and heavy boots.

May be a bit of overkill but before I became a programmer I worked in nuclear
plants for 20 years as a systems operator and health physics specialist, and I
have a strong aversion to riding lying down in the back of an ambulance. (Did
that once, it motivated me to go back to school and get out of the power
industry)

NEVER.

Find a piece of angle iron, 4"x4"x1/4"x48"-60" long.

Weld in 1/4" dividers on 12" intervals.

The above ingot mold will produce 30 lb triangular lead pigs, 12" long, that
can be stacked in an interlocked pattern for trim ballast.

HTH

Lew

Thanks for all the tips.

JJ

P,S, I'm not usually up at this time of night. But was paged with a production
problem that turned out to be system related and I am waiting on the system
administers to call me back. (If I had root privileges I could have done it
myself but application programmers are not allowed to step into sys admin
territory)


James Johnson
remove the "dot" from after sail in email address to reply

James Johnson ) writes:
On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 00:27:45 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

"James Johnson" writes:

would probably make the total
cost prohibitive. Otherwise I would be very interested.

Then find an asphalt contractor who does parking lots.

They use a 500,000 BTU hand held burner /w/ a hose connected to a 20 lb
propane bottle to seal the edges of the asphalt joints.

roofers also use propane heaters. just visit your local equipment rental
outlet for this kind of thing.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
warning: non-freenet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned

James Johnson wrote:


If I replace the iron with a lead keel of identical dimensions I could eliminate
the inside ballast and not have to deal with rusting. The inside ballast was
added by the designer ( I suppose after complaints about tenderness) and is
penciled in on the factory plans.


Yes, but there may be an advantage to being able to alter the ballast
depending on the how the boat is loaded. Might get you off of a mud bank
someday if you can remove some of the ballast.

Might get you off of a mud bank
someday if you can remove some of the ballast.

WWWWWHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT TTTTTTTTTTT?????????????
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???

what a stew ped suggestion. Are your smoking feriously ducking soop?

Why is it stupid?

JAXAshby wrote:
Might get you off of a mud bank
someday if you can remove some of the ballast.


WWWWWHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT TTTTTTTTTTT?????????????
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???

what a stew ped suggestion. Are your smoking feriously ducking soop?

On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 02:35:54 GMT, steveJ wrote:



James Johnson wrote:


If I replace the iron with a lead keel of identical dimensions I could eliminate
the inside ballast and not have to deal with rusting. The inside ballast was
added by the designer ( I suppose after complaints about tenderness) and is
penciled in on the factory plans.


Yes, but there may be an advantage to being able to alter the ballast
depending on the how the boat is loaded. Might get you off of a mud bank
someday if you can remove some of the ballast.

That is true, but you want inside ballast very well secured so it doesn't come
loose in event of a knockdown or rollover. Additionally the draft with
centerboard up is 2 feet 3 inches, removing the inside ballast would reduce
draft by 2 inches at the most. I don't see that advantage outweighing all of
the disadvantages.

JJ





James Johnson
remove the "dot" from after sail in email address to reply