Awhile back, there was a thread concerning stitch-n-glue using aluminum
rather than plywood. Although I do not believe it could be a high enough
quality solution to boat building, having a hard time believing in the
reliability of the epoxy bond and believing that welding is just as easy
if
not easier, it is an interesting topic that I'd like to read about.


I am interested in the subject, only for curiosity reasons, but I am
interested...
I have made some google search on the aluminium-epoxy subject.

I try to explain what i have found:

-Direct use of epoxy on Al don't work, mainly because Al is covered by Al
oxide, and epoxy don't make reliable connections to the oxide layer.

-epoxy and Al are usend for airplanes on a regular basis. To overcome the
oxide problem, the Al is treated with some chemical primers (sorry,
forgotten what) that replaces the oxide with something more reliable.
The use of the proper primer make structural gluing of Al feasible and
reliable (at least for planes...)

-It exist one alternate method for structural gluing of Al, that looks
feasible for "normal" homebuilder

-Epoxy glued Al isn't used (for what I know...) in ship building. It must be
a reason for that, but i don't know it...
Anyone know one explanation? I am curious.

I was thinking that one Al lapstrake hull would be one interesting solution
(maybe also appealing?) for one homebuit epoxy glued Al boat...
Panels hare simple, no special machines is required, the glue surface is
large...

Paolo

From Pisa, Italy

Hi

"Paolo Zini" skrev i en meddelelse
...

-Direct use of epoxy on Al don't work, mainly because Al is covered by Al
oxide, and epoxy don't make reliable connections to the oxide layer.

Exactly , maby behind your desk but hands-on experience will soon show, that
Sicaflex is a far better option a much more flexible glue and a realistic
thing you know if you ever tried building composite hulls.
But this is not the issue in this fora, experience about unfolded panels can
be found as early as Cyber-Boat, where you will se a few composite projects
done in real and not just for the fancy project but for the exiting options
that computers offer.
If you want to make the issue an interesting one, sketch a river boat and
omit the old crafts or make a fool out of those who caturly can build a
boat, join up with the useal crowd of jokers and make usenet what it alway's
was made for, throwing dirt and in particular in a way where you can laugh
the bottom out your pans ,without knowing a clue about the issue.

P.C.

"P.C." wrote in message ...
Hi

"Paolo Zini" skrev i en meddelelse
...

-Direct use of epoxy on Al don't work, mainly because Al is covered by Al
oxide, and epoxy don't make reliable connections to the oxide layer.

Exactly , maby behind your desk but hands-on experience will soon show, that
Sicaflex is a far better option a much more flexible glue and a realistic
thing you know if you ever tried building composite hulls.
But this is not the issue in this fora, experience about unfolded panels can
be found as early as Cyber-Boat, where you will se a few composite projects
done in real and not just for the fancy project but for the exiting options
that computers offer.
If you want to make the issue an interesting one, sketch a river boat and
omit the old crafts or make a fool out of those who caturly can build a
boat, join up with the useal crowd of jokers and make usenet what it alway's
was made for, throwing dirt and in particular in a way where you can laugh
the bottom out your pans ,without knowing a clue about the issue.

P.C.

You narrow minded idiot, don't you ever give up?

Scotty,

I have two r.b.b "contributors" in my kill file ...JAZ and guess who?
Works for me.

Brian


"Backyard Renegade" wrote in message
om...
"P.C." wrote in message
...
Hi

"Paolo Zini" skrev i en meddelelse
...

-Direct use of epoxy on Al don't work, mainly because Al is covered by
Al
oxide, and epoxy don't make reliable connections to the oxide layer.

Exactly , maby behind your desk but hands-on experience will soon show,
that
Sicaflex is a far better option a much more flexible glue and a
realistic
thing you know if you ever tried building composite hulls.
But this is not the issue in this fora, experience about unfolded panels
can
be found as early as Cyber-Boat, where you will se a few composite
projects
done in real and not just for the fancy project but for the exiting
options
that computers offer.
If you want to make the issue an interesting one, sketch a river boat
and
omit the old crafts or make a fool out of those who caturly can build a
boat, join up with the useal crowd of jokers and make usenet what it
alway's
was made for, throwing dirt and in particular in a way where you can
laugh
the bottom out your pans ,without knowing a clue about the issue.

P.C.

You narrow minded idiot, don't you ever give up?

I've used West System on two low tech repairs on aluminum (both cast)..one
was a part from an excercycle and the other the low side AC fitting on my
mom's 84 buick. I used the two part cleaning system from west and both
repairs held for years...the buick went to bone yard with it intact and the
exercycle is still in use...the one on the buick ac fitting saved me lots of
work and some bucks..the excercycle some bucks.....I still have the stuff on
the shelf and will continue to use it for non critical stuff..don't know if
I wanna build a boat with it...or an airplane, but I've heard it's been used
there (planes).

DonE


"Backyard Renegade" wrote in message
om...
"P.C." wrote in message
...
Hi

"Paolo Zini" skrev i en meddelelse
...

-Direct use of epoxy on Al don't work, mainly because Al is covered by
Al
oxide, and epoxy don't make reliable connections to the oxide layer.

Exactly , maby behind your desk but hands-on experience will soon show,
that
Sicaflex is a far better option a much more flexible glue and a
realistic
thing you know if you ever tried building composite hulls.
But this is not the issue in this fora, experience about unfolded panels
can
be found as early as Cyber-Boat, where you will se a few composite
projects
done in real and not just for the fancy project but for the exiting
options
that computers offer.
If you want to make the issue an interesting one, sketch a river boat
and
omit the old crafts or make a fool out of those who caturly can build a
boat, join up with the useal crowd of jokers and make usenet what it
alway's
was made for, throwing dirt and in particular in a way where you can
laugh
the bottom out your pans ,without knowing a clue about the issue.

P.C.

You narrow minded idiot, don't you ever give up?

Hi

"Backyard Renegade" skrev i en meddelelse
om...

You narrow minded idiot, don't you ever give up?

Give up the good craftmanship, a life experience in boatbuilding, carpentry
and computer programming ?
For what ------- fiddeling amature design and discussing with jeloux
amatures that start asking tolerence and end up throwing dirt and posting
unsafe designs being a serious safety risk for your kids ?
Putting cheap nails in end wood ,plastering with a patch of the cheapest
cloth and the cheapest polyester, now the best epoxy is to expensive for
somone who want to advise others ?

Listen ------- 25 years ago I build my first boat, the first one where I
made my own plans and the first one where I placed each rivit and cut each
plank, from drawings made with the first plotter I had, feed with the
unfolding software I wrote myself. Then you jokers came around, and you
sataret to throw dirt and make the bad air, -------- nice result but as you
know, dryass jokers behind their office desk, make no visions make nothing
but evil and hate and then you ask tolerence. ------- When you replaced all
decent craftmanship with ashes from hell ,don't ask for beauty and decency,
don't expect happiness for the money you made. As if your drive is hate and
throwing dirt is what you want this group to deal with, you already done so
a few years , ------- did it bring you any happiness to trow dirt, did you
expect so.

P.C.
http://w1.1396.telia.com/~u139600113/

On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:05:17 +0100, "P.C."
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

OK. I close dialogue.

I think you went over the edge (possibly of a flat earth) somewhere.

************************************************** ** sorry

..........no I'm not!
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Does Bill Gates dream of electronic sheep?

"P.C." wrote in message ...
Hi

"Backyard Renegade" skrev i en meddelelse
om...

You narrow minded idiot, don't you ever give up?

Give up the good craftmanship, a life experience in boatbuilding, carpentry
and computer programming ?
For what ------- fiddeling amature design and discussing with jeloux
amatures that start asking tolerence and end up throwing dirt and posting
unsafe designs being a serious safety risk for your kids ?

You have been asked before to show an example of this, just one, you
refuse. I would suggest you have no example, you are just bending the
facts to try to make a point.

Putting cheap nails in end wood ,plastering with a patch of the cheapest
cloth and the cheapest polyester, now the best epoxy is to expensive for
somone who want to advise others ?

You again have absolutly no basis for this comment, again you are
being dishonest
..

Listen ------- 25 years ago I build my first boat, the first one where I
made my own plans and the first one where I placed each rivit and cut each
plank, from drawings made with the first plotter I had, feed with the
unfolding software I wrote myself.

So what, I drew my first in the dirt and built around that, built 50
since, how many did you say you have built. I know you will tapdance
around that question seems you want us to build them for you.

Then you jokers came around, and you
sataret to throw dirt and make the bad air, -------- nice result but as you
know, dryass jokers behind their office desk, make no visions make nothing
but evil and hate and then you ask tolerence.

Man, next time you get to the local coffee shop, try an indica strain,
less paranoia Fact is you, as many times before, were the first to
come into this thread with your insults toward many of the builders
here. Read your own words asswipe:

SNIPAnd you should also understand that this has not always been the
case. I have emails from years ago when PC approached me to sell his
cartoons here in the US, when I turned him down is when he started
making innacurate accusations about anyone here who does not like his
work. /SNIP

------- When you replaced all
decent craftmanship with ashes from hell ,don't ask for beauty and decency,
don't expect happiness for the money you made. As if your drive is hate and
throwing dirt is what you want this group to deal with, you already done so
a few years ,

I have and will always pipe in when you make unprovoked attacks at Me,
or my friends as you have done with Payson and others who either don't
do internet, or are dead. You know as well as I that you only took a
bad attitude with me when after some negotiation, I turned you down
for a partnership here in the US so you could have a state side
marketing person for your internet cartoons. That's a fact asswipe,
and you know it.


------- did it bring you any happiness to trow dirt, did you
expect so.

No, it did not. But since I have spent so much time on this, maybe I
can at least have one question answered for me by my peers. Is this
guy what we over here in cowboy land would refer to as "eurotrash" or
would that require more of a pedigree and a French accent? Later Per,
your idea sucks, admit it dude, get a job...


P.C.

"Backyard Renegade" skrev i en meddelelse
om...
"P.C." wrote in message
...

, you are just bending the
facts to try to make a point.

What point is that, ------ that you obviously think you own this group, takl
about buisness relations that sound a bit silli, while Cyber-Boat is
free-Download and the Usenet do not just cover one contry but the whole
world.

Why shuld I btw fight flat bottomed designs some amature produced behind his
office desk, the real test shuldn't even be needed when you know the trouble
getting the pieces together everyone shuld know what safety that attitude
bring.

Putting cheap nails in end wood ,plastering with a patch of the cheapest
cloth and the cheapest polyester, now the best epoxy is to expensive for
somone who want to advise others ?

You again have absolutly no basis for this comment, again you are
being dishonest , ------- you are quite right that honesty is a part of
this, honesty about how you got the knowleage to advise and honesty about
the buisness this fora turned into, for those offering plans. Ofcaurse you
don't like the fact that Cyber-Boat is free download, but fact is that the
reson they became that, was the useal crowd in this group that at that time
also protected Bolgers and simular against the tradisional craftmanship and
educated advices I alway's standed for.

How do you explain what you say about me getting into the american marked,
when everything I offer is free download ?
.

Listen ------- 25 years ago I build my first boat, the first one where I
made my own plans and the first one where I placed each rivit and cut
each
plank, from drawings made with the first plotter I had, feed with the
unfolding software I wrote myself.

So what, I drew my first in the dirt and built around that, built 50
since, how many did you say you have built. I know you will tapdance
around that question seems you want us to build them for you.


Well don't that depend What you draw, and what you builded. For my part I
bilded Lapstrake without the need of Epoxy, but surely I used Epoxy being
the best thing that happened for tradisional boatbuilding since they
invented the bucked .

Then you jokers came around, and you
sataret to throw dirt and make the bad air, -------- nice result but as
you
know, dryass jokers behind their office desk, make no visions make
nothing
but evil and hate and then you ask tolerence.

Man, next time you get to the local coffee shop, try an indica strain,
less paranoia Fact is you, as many times before, were the first to
come into this thread with your insults toward many of the builders
here. Read your own words asswipe:


On your heels -------- no one shuld be allowed to give out advices that make
a fool of the usenet user that belive he get the best advise, but is left
with a heap of scrap that police shuld take in and protect the public
against. The only ones that find this funny, is the same crowd of dryass
jokers, that is ancious to make some poor fool test out their next scrippled
down fantasy boat.
Cyber-Boat never provided that, but is based on quite different qualities.;
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cyber-Boat/

Beside Cyber-Boat was the first to interduce panels unfolded from a 3D
model, and a lot of other innovative gadgeds is found in the concept, but
you jokers years ago did your best to make this group into a place where the
tradisional wooden boat, the okd proud crafts , is made fool of if it is a
tread agaist your flatbottom boatplan sales..------- You can't compeed with
quality, and replace that with dirt throwing and foul words.
P,C.


SNIPAnd you should also understand that this has not always been the
case. I have emails from years ago when PC approached me to sell his
cartoons here in the US, when I turned him down is when he started
making innacurate accusations about anyone here who does not like his
work. /SNIP

------- When you replaced all
decent craftmanship with ashes from hell ,don't ask for beauty and
decency,
don't expect happiness for the money you made. As if your drive is hate
and
throwing dirt is what you want this group to deal with, you already done
so
a few years ,

I have and will always pipe in when you make unprovoked attacks at Me,
or my friends as you have done with Payson and others who either don't
do internet, or are dead. You know as well as I that you only took a
bad attitude with me when after some negotiation, I turned you down
for a partnership here in the US so you could have a state side
marketing person for your internet cartoons. That's a fact asswipe,
and you know it.


------- did it bring you any happiness to trow dirt, did you
expect so.

No, it did not. But since I have spent so much time on this, maybe I
can at least have one question answered for me by my peers. Is this
guy what we over here in cowboy land would refer to as "eurotrash" or
would that require more of a pedigree and a French accent? Later Per,
your idea sucks, admit it dude, get a job...


P.C.

On 18 Mar 2004 22:46:17 -0800, (Backyard
Renegade) wrote:

snip
I have and will always pipe in when you make unprovoked attacks at Me,
or my friends as you have done with Payson and others who either don't
do internet, or are dead.
snip

Not my fight, but I would like to add that, as far as I know, Mr.
Payson is in the "alive but doesn't do the Internet" category, not the
"dead" category.

- Rick

--
"Ignorant voracity -- a wingless vulture -- can soar only into the
depths of ignominy." Patrick O'Brian