Awhile back, there was a thread concerning stitch-n-glue using aluminum
rather than plywood. Although I do not believe it could be a high enough
quality solution to boat building, having a hard time believing in the
reliability of the epoxy bond and believing that welding is just as easy if
not easier, it is an interesting topic that I'd like to read about.

Meindert, and maybe others (?), mentioned knowing of aluminum/epoxy projects
going on. Does anybody have a link on the web that I can go check out? The
only link I had before is long gone, or at least I can't find it ...anyone?
Have you seen any of this on the web?

Thanks,
Brian

"Brian D" wrote in message
newsbR5c.27221$JL2.316008@attbi_s03...
Awhile back, there was a thread concerning stitch-n-glue using aluminum
rather than plywood. Although I do not believe it could be a high enough
quality solution to boat building, having a hard time believing in the
reliability of the epoxy bond and believing that welding is just as easy
if
not easier, it is an interesting topic that I'd like to read about.

Meindert, and maybe others (?), mentioned knowing of aluminum/epoxy
projects
going on. Does anybody have a link on the web that I can go check out?
The
only link I had before is long gone, or at least I can't find it
....anyone?
Have you seen any of this on the web?


Hi Brian,

I think I referred to the Pinical system, where aluminum profiles are bent
into shape and connected together with a nifty flange-like system. The
profiles are riveted together and the seams are filled with an epoxy resin.
See www.pinical.com for details.

Regards,
Meindert

Awhile back, there was a thread concerning stitch-n-glue using aluminum
rather than plywood. Although I do not believe it could be a high enough
quality solution to boat building, having a hard time believing in the
reliability of the epoxy bond and believing that welding is just as easy
if
not easier, it is an interesting topic that I'd like to read about.


I am interested in the subject, only for curiosity reasons, but I am
interested...
I have made some google search on the aluminium-epoxy subject.

I try to explain what i have found:

-Direct use of epoxy on Al don't work, mainly because Al is covered by Al
oxide, and epoxy don't make reliable connections to the oxide layer.

-epoxy and Al are usend for airplanes on a regular basis. To overcome the
oxide problem, the Al is treated with some chemical primers (sorry,
forgotten what) that replaces the oxide with something more reliable.
The use of the proper primer make structural gluing of Al feasible and
reliable (at least for planes...)

-It exist one alternate method for structural gluing of Al, that looks
feasible for "normal" homebuilder

-Epoxy glued Al isn't used (for what I know...) in ship building. It must be
a reason for that, but i don't know it...
Anyone know one explanation? I am curious.

I was thinking that one Al lapstrake hull would be one interesting solution
(maybe also appealing?) for one homebuit epoxy glued Al boat...
Panels hare simple, no special machines is required, the glue surface is
large...

Paolo

From Pisa, Italy

Hi

"Paolo Zini" skrev i en meddelelse
...

-Direct use of epoxy on Al don't work, mainly because Al is covered by Al
oxide, and epoxy don't make reliable connections to the oxide layer.

Exactly , maby behind your desk but hands-on experience will soon show, that
Sicaflex is a far better option a much more flexible glue and a realistic
thing you know if you ever tried building composite hulls.
But this is not the issue in this fora, experience about unfolded panels can
be found as early as Cyber-Boat, where you will se a few composite projects
done in real and not just for the fancy project but for the exiting options
that computers offer.
If you want to make the issue an interesting one, sketch a river boat and
omit the old crafts or make a fool out of those who caturly can build a
boat, join up with the useal crowd of jokers and make usenet what it alway's
was made for, throwing dirt and in particular in a way where you can laugh
the bottom out your pans ,without knowing a clue about the issue.

P.C.

There was an article in this month's issue of Epoxyworks sent out by
Gougeon Bros. about adhesion of epoxy to various metals.
I don't have the article in front of me but I seem to remember that
Aluminum had the lowest adhesion strength of all the metals tested.
You can contact them and they will send a free subscription to you (I
think) if you don't get it already.
My guess is that epoxy would not work for this because of the expansion
of the metal and the oxide problem mentioned. I could be wrong.

Brian D wrote:
Awhile back, there was a thread concerning stitch-n-glue using aluminum
rather than plywood. Although I do not believe it could be a high enough
quality solution to boat building, having a hard time believing in the
reliability of the epoxy bond and believing that welding is just as easy if
not easier, it is an interesting topic that I'd like to read about.

Meindert, and maybe others (?), mentioned knowing of aluminum/epoxy projects
going on. Does anybody have a link on the web that I can go check out? The
only link I had before is long gone, or at least I can't find it ...anyone?
Have you seen any of this on the web?

Thanks,
Brian

"P.C." wrote in message ...
Hi

"Paolo Zini" skrev i en meddelelse
...

-Direct use of epoxy on Al don't work, mainly because Al is covered by Al
oxide, and epoxy don't make reliable connections to the oxide layer.

Exactly , maby behind your desk but hands-on experience will soon show, that
Sicaflex is a far better option a much more flexible glue and a realistic
thing you know if you ever tried building composite hulls.
But this is not the issue in this fora, experience about unfolded panels can
be found as early as Cyber-Boat, where you will se a few composite projects
done in real and not just for the fancy project but for the exiting options
that computers offer.
If you want to make the issue an interesting one, sketch a river boat and
omit the old crafts or make a fool out of those who caturly can build a
boat, join up with the useal crowd of jokers and make usenet what it alway's
was made for, throwing dirt and in particular in a way where you can laugh
the bottom out your pans ,without knowing a clue about the issue.

P.C.

You narrow minded idiot, don't you ever give up?

Scotty,

I have two r.b.b "contributors" in my kill file ...JAZ and guess who?
Works for me.

Brian


"Backyard Renegade" wrote in message
om...
"P.C." wrote in message
...
Hi

"Paolo Zini" skrev i en meddelelse
...

-Direct use of epoxy on Al don't work, mainly because Al is covered by
Al
oxide, and epoxy don't make reliable connections to the oxide layer.

Exactly , maby behind your desk but hands-on experience will soon show,
that
Sicaflex is a far better option a much more flexible glue and a
realistic
thing you know if you ever tried building composite hulls.
But this is not the issue in this fora, experience about unfolded panels
can
be found as early as Cyber-Boat, where you will se a few composite
projects
done in real and not just for the fancy project but for the exiting
options
that computers offer.
If you want to make the issue an interesting one, sketch a river boat
and
omit the old crafts or make a fool out of those who caturly can build a
boat, join up with the useal crowd of jokers and make usenet what it
alway's
was made for, throwing dirt and in particular in a way where you can
laugh
the bottom out your pans ,without knowing a clue about the issue.

P.C.

You narrow minded idiot, don't you ever give up?

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:12:25 +0100, "P.C."
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

PC. Do you have _pictures_ (not "PC" generated images) of boats using
your methods?

But this is not the issue in this fora, experience about unfolded panels can
be found as early as Cyber-Boat, where you will se a few composite projects
done in real and not just for the fancy project but for the exiting options
that computers offer.


************************************************** ** sorry

..........no I'm not!
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Does Bill Gates dream of electronic sheep?

I've used West System on two low tech repairs on aluminum (both cast)..one
was a part from an excercycle and the other the low side AC fitting on my
mom's 84 buick. I used the two part cleaning system from west and both
repairs held for years...the buick went to bone yard with it intact and the
exercycle is still in use...the one on the buick ac fitting saved me lots of
work and some bucks..the excercycle some bucks.....I still have the stuff on
the shelf and will continue to use it for non critical stuff..don't know if
I wanna build a boat with it...or an airplane, but I've heard it's been used
there (planes).

DonE


"Backyard Renegade" wrote in message
om...
"P.C." wrote in message
...
Hi

"Paolo Zini" skrev i en meddelelse
...

-Direct use of epoxy on Al don't work, mainly because Al is covered by
Al
oxide, and epoxy don't make reliable connections to the oxide layer.

Exactly , maby behind your desk but hands-on experience will soon show,
that
Sicaflex is a far better option a much more flexible glue and a
realistic
thing you know if you ever tried building composite hulls.
But this is not the issue in this fora, experience about unfolded panels
can
be found as early as Cyber-Boat, where you will se a few composite
projects
done in real and not just for the fancy project but for the exiting
options
that computers offer.
If you want to make the issue an interesting one, sketch a river boat
and
omit the old crafts or make a fool out of those who caturly can build a
boat, join up with the useal crowd of jokers and make usenet what it
alway's
was made for, throwing dirt and in particular in a way where you can
laugh
the bottom out your pans ,without knowing a clue about the issue.

P.C.

You narrow minded idiot, don't you ever give up?

Hi

"Old Nick" skrev i en meddelelse
news
On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:12:25 +0100, "P.C."
vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

PC. Do you have _pictures_ (not "PC" generated images) of boats using
your methods?


Plenty , ------- you find a lot on the old Cyber-Boat site, acturly
Cyber-Boat was the first to interduce the idear of unfolded panels done with
unfolding software and many boats been build .
But in this group, a lot of flatbotom boat fanatics will rather have
amatures to project a fantasy boat , and you can soon se how this group is
used to shrow dirt on the old tradisional boatbuilding craft.
You se when you read hatefull mails about Cyber-Boat, you must remember that
Cyber-Boat do not provide flat bottomed boats, and this fact some old dryass
use to earn money making this group into a hate place against the original
tradisional small woodboating carafs -------- I am acturly a boatbiolder and
acturly teached apprentish in the arts of CAD, but I fully understand the
ones who make money on what they can, and that they use hate against anyone
offering somthing better and genuine, ------- and free .
Check out the old Cyber-Boat site, and you know why ;

http://w1.1396.telia.com/~u139600113/

A few jokers and dryasses don't like what they se, and think that dirt and
foul words can replace good craftmanship, ------- I make it up to be your
choice, do you want bad designs and fiddeling craftmanship with nasty words
it's your choice, I offer another choice and I do not make any money on it.

P.C.
http://home20.inet.tele.dk/h-3d/