Terry,
I try NOT to 'assume' ANYTHING !!

My reasoning for the response was simply that a LOT of people a) DON'T
have a since of reality, and b} feel that if 'something' is read on the
internet, it *must* be real.

A local Club I recently joined {one the Delaware River in the
Philadelphia area - in existence since the Civil War}, is so EMPHATIC
about safety that they INSIST that members or visitors {ESPECIALLY
children} wear PDF's even on the floating DOCK !!

While my background started in Atlantic City, NJ, and has a few years of
'sea time', it is not quite as 'adventurous' as yours. However, I don't
get your comment about . . . "You guys are making me wonder about the
boat building community." I may not build as many boats as some others,
or have a HIN 'assigned' to my shop, but I am familiar with the concept
of 'Peculinary {spl?}Liability' and how litigious our society has
become. In addition there is the simple and general concern for the
safety of the 'sport' of 'water-borne activity'. I don't want to get
into a discussion of how 'PC' it has become to get the 'Government'
involved in EVERY aspect of people's lives - just because no one seems
to want to accept the concept of 'Personal Responsibility for Personal
Activity'.

I didn't intend to insult anyone, if I did, I apologize . . . but not
for my comments to the 'general readership'. I don't mind this type of
discussions; my only regret is that it can't be continued face-to-face
over a pot of good coffee, or some chilled wine.

Regards,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop


----- Original Message -----
From:
To: "Ron Magen"
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 14:59
Subject: Where can I find info?


Reality is is known to me since I was raised in Key West and had
boats in
the Atlantic since I was 11.
My dad and I built a 14' Skiff which was amongst many of the boats we
owned
unfortunately at 10 you don't really appreciate the experience.
Also, I did more than a few days on shrimpers and crawfish boats
pulling
traps. I also spent many hours with the Mel Fisher family on their
boats
since I went to school with his sons.
Unfortunately, I wasn't interested in designing/building a boat and
saw it
as employment and social adventure.
I may ask a dumb question or two but don't assume I know nothing of
boats
You guys are making me wonder about the boat building community.

Terry






----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Magen"
Newsgroups: rec.boats.building
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 9:37 AM
Subject: Where can I find info?


Steve,
Maybe not a joke, but if this guy is for real . . SOMEBODY has to
get
through to him about REALITY.

I've seen people who have no concept of physics, or common sense,
over
load
a small boat BEYOND 'dangerous'. It's one thing when they are rather
fit
people & their kids . . . there is the possibility of survival
re-boarding
a
flipped or swamped boat.

On the other hand, I helped a gentleman get his wife aboard a 20 ft.
{or
so}
powerboat . . when she went over the side AT THE DOCK. She was TWICE
his
size, and he was of average fitness & size. I helped by showing &
telling
him WHAT and HOW to do it. Although he had already gone into the
water
{leaving two small children aboard} he could NEVER have pushed her
aboard.
If it had happened 'in a seaway' or out on the Delaware {with it's
6-7
knot
current} they would probably BOTH have drowned. NEITHER was wearing
a PFD.

Whether they ever purchased, or made, the emergency rope 'ladder' {I
used
an
extra dock-line}, I don't know. Hopefully the experience stuck with
them.
I
DID give them a stern 'safety lecture'.

As to their feelings; several days later we went to check on our
P-19,
there
was a nice bottle of wine, with a bow around the neck, sitting under
the
cockpit cover.

Regards,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
{all 225+ pounds of him}

"Stephen Baker" wrote in message
...
Joseph Stachyra says:

is this posting a JOKE.....

I don't think so. But you better hope he doesn't find out what
part of
Tunkhannock you hail from.......
I know it's not "cool" to be PC any more, but it is still rude to
poke
fun
at
folks' weights.

Steve




"Stephen Baker" wrote in message
...
Dazed and Confused says:

He was, however, rude.

And then follows it with :

why don't you quit ?

Pot. Kettle. Black?

I didn't intend to insult anyone, if I did, I apologize . . . but not
for my comments to the 'general readership'. I don't mind this type of
discussions; my only regret is that it can't be continued face-to-face
over a pot of good coffee, or some chilled wine.

it is tragic they way it is going. I've just left my college and I've
(unofficially) offered my services to the boat club for repair of rowing
craft and to help out when they attend regattas. I can't offer it
officially, even though as a student I could do all the above, as a
non-student I'm a massive risk. I know that school trips will shortly
become impossible because nobody can take the risk of a private action being
brought against them.

People had to be brought to account for incompetence and idiocy to make sure
that (for example) trips were properly thought out. But too much of it now
is all about the money. As my boss says of two lawyers he knows: "What a
dirty way to make your money" because as he sees it, you're doing your job
when the guilty are set free and the innocent are punished, making money out
of human misery.

All of which is getting far from the point, which is that the necessity of
watching your backside all the time detracts from the pleasure of such
sports and interests as ours. I have to be slightly careful when ringing
round friends to organise canoeing trips, and god forbid I should crash my
car while giving someone a lift...

....anyone have any thoughts on how to rediscover sanity?

Al