And before Sloco makes an ass of himself again, consider...

....That virtually all sailing vessels moving through the water exhibit
some level of bow lift. Attempting to draw the lines between planing
and semi-planing with strict numbers is rather silly, just like the
rather ill defined areas between displacement and semi-displacement.
One could even argue that most sailboats are "semi-planing" but
obviously some designs are noted for it as a typical sailing
characteristic. My Pearson 30 and C&C 32 really ran on thier lines and
LWL most of the time, while the 35s5 lifts and exceeds hull speed with
a wooosh that is as fun as it is common in a good breeze.



RB
35s5
NY

Capt. Rob wrote:
This is such a ludicrous fabrication its laughable. If there was
enough
wind for a 35s5 to do hull speed under main alone (that's only 232 sq
ft)


How many sq. feet, Jeff???? You might want to check that again. You're
a BIT off!

Sorry, 322 sq feet. Still, its only 43% of the 742 feet on the Nonsuch.
Sail Area = Horsepower; there's pretty simple physics here. With 230%
more power, the Nonsuch easily overcomes its weight disadvantage (17,000
vs 11,460 lbs).

So lets do some real math he 322 sq ft in F5 generates about 12.9 Hp
(at 0.04 Hp/ft^2). Now, how much does a 11460 lb boat need to do hull
speed? About 22.7, using the formula:
HP = ((SR/10.665)^3) * DISP
In fact, the Benny can only do a bit over SR of 1.1, or about 6 knots.

Lets repeat for a NS36: 742 ft means 29.7 Hp. To reach hull speed
requires 33.7, so in fact it would have a SR of 1.2, or just under 7 knots.

So it would appear that booby simply doesn't know what it means to do
"hull speed," or, he made the whole story up. Or more likely, both.

BTW, a J/29 in 20 knots with full sail generates over 18 Hp but needs
only 11.9 for a Speed Ratio of 1.34. By my formula it gets to SR of
about 1.55 or close to 8 knots, which, I would think, agrees with the
polar at a beam reach. (Actually, the polar I have for a J/30 shows
over 8, but that's with a large jib.)


then a Nonsuch 36 with 742 sq ft and a hull speed a half knot
higher
would have had no trouble walking away from it.


Jeff, seriously, you CAN'T be any kind of real sailor. LWL is not the
end all for speed.

Of course not. However, I can probably find posts where you claimed it was.

MAYBE you know that. Maybe not. My friend's J29 has
less LWL than the 35s5. He'll exceed his hull speed faster than we
will.

But by how much? Upwind or on a close reach its unusual for a speed
factor of greater than 1.4 or 1.5, where the "standard" is 1.34. On a
Beam Reach in a blow, its possible to do 20% over hull speed.

A real advantage of a lightweight boat like the J/29 (same hull, 2000
lbs lighter than a J/30) is that it it will achieve these speeds in
lighter winds.

A boat like the 35s5 will do better than hull speed, even with
her main on a day like that.

So will a Nonsuch. It isn't a crab crusher: the NS36 SD has a PHRF of
141. There's only about 15 points difference. PHRF is normalized for
11 knots of wind; how much of that difference goes away in stronger
wind? How much is the pointing ability?

Moreover, you've claimed many times that your Benny has a low rating
because it attracts better skippers; it would follow that the Nonsuch
has a high rating because its only sailed, as you claim, by "old men."
Since the ratings are in fact pretty close, it must be that the Nonsuch
is actually faster than your Benny.

Our average over an hour was 6.7 knots.

Which is a full knot under the hull speed of a NS36. Again, you're
claiming that you can beat a full sailed NS36 with only your main.
Nonsense!

The Nonsuch was right there with us for about 3 minutes.

And then he went home? This is one of your little "code phrases" that
really means it was out-sailing you so you tacked away! You love to use
phrases like "boat for boat" and "well sailed" so you can make up any
fantasy you want to make the sale. Face it booby, you're a salesman,
not a sailor!

....
I would certainly admit the the 35s5 is a faster boat than the
NS36


Golly! Really? I thought you said the Nonsuch will walk away from a
35s5.

If you leave the jib at home. Actually, on a close reach with full
sail, the boats might be pretty close in a breeze.



Given that
the Nonsuch is a very comfortable cruising boat that is extremely
easy
to singlehand, that's not much of a difference.


Sure it is because the 35s5 is more fun to sail. And I've sailed a
Nonsuch and a Freedom 36 as well. Mark in this very group owned the
Freedom and it's a great boat, but not the kind of sailing we prefer.

Whatever floats your Clorox Bottle.



And on a close reach
with a breeze, the Nonsuch design holds its own against a lot of
other
boats. I never had any trouble keeping up or even passing most 32-34
footers in my Nonsuch 30 on a close reach.


I'm sure we're all happy that the Nonsuch worked well for you on that
point of sail. We kind of like the 35s5, and the J boats we sail. They
tend to be fun and fast on all points of sail.

So now he's admitting he lied about his "encounter" with a Nonsuch and
reverts to his claim that he has more fun.

"Capt. **** Head" wrote in

while the 35s5 lifts and exceeds hull speed with
a wooosh that is as fun as it is common in a good breeze.


is that the same sounding 'whoosh' that you hear when
talking to sailors?

SBV

On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 16:56:45 -0400, "Scotty" wrote this
crap:

is that the same sounding 'whoosh' that you hear when
talking to sailors?

For you, that "whoosh" is the sound the air makes between your ears.




I'm Horvath and I approve of this post.

"Horvath" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 16:56:45 -0400, "Scotty"
wrote this
crap:

is that the same sounding 'whoosh' that you hear when
talking to sailors?

For you, that "whoosh" is the sound I make between your
legs.


must you gay up every post?

Sorry, 322 sq feet. Still, its only 43% of the 742 feet on the
Nonsuch.
Sail Area = Horsepower; there's pretty simple physics here.


Wrong, Jeff. I work closely with two lofts now and sail area does not
+ HP in all cases. For it to be effective you need proper shape, COE
coupled with LWL and the least wetted surface on a hydrodynamically
effective hull.


With 230%
more power, the Nonsuch easily overcomes its weight disadvantage
(17,000
vs 11,460 lbs).

No, Jeff. The Nonsuch can have all of the sail area in the world and
it will never overcome it's heft in all conditions. There are MANY
other factors than make a lot of boats faster than a Nonsuch even when
they have less canvas and shorter LWL.

In fact, the Benny can only do a bit over SR of 1.1, or about 6
knots.

Yeah, I remember years ago when I was a newbie and I played with those
types of numbers. Some real sailors set me straight. We will always
pass the Nonsuch and always have. A J27 or J29 will usually pass us,
though we can throw up impressive sail area coupled with greater LWL.
Sigh. You just don't get sailing at all, do you?


Of course not. However, I can probably find posts where you
claimed it was.



Yup, I used to play the numbers game as you have above. Then there's
the real world. If you don't think a 35s5 can stay with a Nonsuch,
both flying mains, then you're simply wrong. There's just no doubt
about it at all.



But by how much?

Does that matter? "Faster" for sailboats is always about very small
advantages.


On a
Beam Reach in a blow, its possible to do 20% over hull speed.


Most 35s5 owners who've sailed their boats hard have reported speeds
between 10-12 knots. On a reach in Florida we touched 11 knots I
believe. My buddy who races topped 11 with the 35s5 flying the 150% in
far too much wind.

A real advantage of a lightweight boat like the J/29 (same hull, 2000
lbs lighter than a J/30)

Actually, Jeff, the hulls have some differences beyond the weight.


So will a Nonsuch. It isn't a crab crusher: the NS36 SD has a
PHRF of
141.



NE Rating is 165, Jeff. I've seen lower and higher. The current rating
for my boat with martec prop is 126. 165 is barely any better than my
Pearson 30, which was a fine sailing boat. I'm NOT bashing the Nonsuch
boats, Jeff. There were three out today and they are pretty boats.
They were right there with the Catalinas and Beneteau Oceanus boats,
but we passed them easily.

Moreover, you've claimed many times that your Benny has a low
rating
because it attracts better skippers;



The usual song from 35s5 owners is that it's just not forgiving at all
and requires a very good crew. In my opinion that makes a poor
raceboat for a lot of people, unless they really want to get serious
about it. It's a bad pick for the casual racer to be sure.



Since the ratings are in fact pretty close, it must be that the
Nonsuch
is actually faster than your Benny.

Hey, Jeff...if you want to believe that a Nonsuch 36 is faster than a
35s5, J30, Santana 30/30 or even Sloco's Express 30, screanm it to the
heavens.



Which is a full knot under the hull speed of a NS36.

That was an average, Jeff. When winds died so did the Nonsuch. We kept
flying. In heavy winds the boats were a closer match. We sailed along
with two Nonsuch 36's. They are always out as of late and I'll take
pics of them next weekend. We always pass them.


Face it booby, you're a salesman,
not a sailor!

Well said! What's your point?

If you leave the jib at home. Actually, on a close reach with
full
sail, the boats might be pretty close in a breeze.

I like the Nonsuch, Jeff. It's too much of an "old person's" design
for me to dig into in my 40's.



So now he's admitting he lied about his "encounter" with a Nonsuch
and
reverts to his claim that he has more fun.

Like I said, I'll grab some pics of those boats for you this week.
They're always out on the weekends lately. And you'll see the white
haired crew on both. We did see a smaller one with some younger folk
aboard! And yes, the 35s5 is a lot more fun.


RB
35s5
NY

Capt. Rob wrote:
Sorry, 322 sq feet. Still, its only 43% of the 742 feet on the
Nonsuch.
Sail Area = Horsepower; there's pretty simple physics here.


Wrong, Jeff. I work closely with two lofts now and sail area does not
+ HP in all cases. For it to be effective you need proper shape, COE
coupled with LWL and the least wetted surface on a hydrodynamically
effective hull.

Nauti-babble! You're just showing how little you know!



With 230%
more power, the Nonsuch easily overcomes its weight disadvantage
(17,000
vs 11,460 lbs).

No, Jeff. The Nonsuch can have all of the sail area in the world and
it will never overcome it's heft in all conditions. There are MANY
other factors than make a lot of boats faster than a Nonsuch even when
they have less canvas and shorter LWL.

More Nauti-babble! You're just showing how little you know!


In fact, the Benny can only do a bit over SR of 1.1, or about 6
knots.

Yeah, I remember years ago when I was a newbie and I played with those
types of numbers.

So you didn't understand the numbers and you gave up learning. This is
a common pattern for you, isn't it?

Some real sailors set me straight. We will always
pass the Nonsuch and always have.

A Nonsuch 30, perhaps, but the NS 36 SD is almost as fast as your boat;
in some situations its faster, like if you leave your jib at home.

A J27 or J29 will usually pass us,
though we can throw up impressive sail area coupled with greater LWL.
Sigh. You just don't get sailing at all, do you?

Keep at it another 10 or 20 years, and you'll catch up to where I was
about 40 years ago.



Of course not. However, I can probably find posts where you
claimed it was.



Yup, I used to play the numbers game as you have above. Then there's
the real world. If you don't think a 35s5 can stay with a Nonsuch,
both flying mains, then you're simply wrong. There's just no doubt
about it at all.

You've totally lost it here, booby! Are you seriously claiming that the
35s5 without a jib can beat a boat that rates at 141 or even 160??? And
you think you have any credibility left? BWHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





But by how much?

Does that matter? "Faster" for sailboats is always about very small
advantages.

But this just proves my point. If you're claiming that a boat that's a
couple of percent faster is all the difference in the world, then the
crude VPP numbers I gave are actually pretty definitive in showing that
there's no way that a Benny without a jib can overcome that handicap.



On a
Beam Reach in a blow, its possible to do 20% over hull speed.


Most 35s5 owners who've sailed their boats hard have reported speeds
between 10-12 knots. On a reach in Florida we touched 11 knots I
believe. My buddy who races topped 11 with the 35s5 flying the 150% in
far too much wind.

More of your silly claims. But I agree that there are moments- I've
even had my Nonsuch 30 close to 9 knots a few times. But these moments
usually last a few seconds are caused by surfing and momentary gusts.
They don't happen often (except in your fantasies) on a close reach in
18-20 knots steady.


A real advantage of a lightweight boat like the J/29 (same hull, 2000
lbs lighter than a J/30)

Actually, Jeff, the hulls have some differences beyond the weight.


Of course, but its essentially the same hull shape.


So will a Nonsuch. It isn't a crab crusher: the NS36 SD has a
PHRF of 141.



NE Rating is 165, Jeff. I've seen lower and higher. The current rating
for my boat with martec prop is 126. 165 is barely any better than my
Pearson 30, which was a fine sailing boat. I'm NOT bashing the Nonsuch
boats, Jeff. There were three out today and they are pretty boats.
They were right there with the Catalinas and Beneteau Oceanus boats,
but we passed them easily.

USSailing lists the NS 36 SD as 141. But are you actually claiming the
35s5 would rate faster without its jib?


Moreover, you've claimed many times that your Benny has a low
rating
because it attracts better skippers;



The usual song from 35s5 owners is that it's just not forgiving at all
and requires a very good crew. In my opinion that makes a poor
raceboat for a lot of people, unless they really want to get serious
about it. It's a bad pick for the casual racer to be sure.

So what is it? Does it have a low rating because its raced by pros, or a
high rating because its too hard for the average racer? You seem to
flip you argument back and forth.


Since the ratings are in fact pretty close, it must be that the
Nonsuch
is actually faster than your Benny.

Hey, Jeff...if you want to believe that a Nonsuch 36 is faster than a
35s5, J30, Santana 30/30 or even Sloco's Express 30, screanm it to the
heavens.

I never claimed the Nonsuch was faster than any of these boats.
You made that claim that without your jib you can outsail a NS 36.

Its real simple: in F5 the Nonsuch (and most other boats) will be at or
near hull speed when carrying full sail. Take away the jib and the
benny doesn't have a prayer.




Which is a full knot under the hull speed of a NS36.

That was an average, Jeff. When winds died so did the Nonsuch. We kept
flying. In heavy winds the boats were a closer match. We sailed along
with two Nonsuch 36's. They are always out as of late and I'll take
pics of them next weekend. We always pass them.

Without your jib? That's the whole topic of this discussion, even
though you keep avoiding it.

Nauti-babble! You're just showing how little you know!


Wetted surface and hull shape is babble? Oh. Okay!


So you didn't understand the numbers and you gave up learning.
This is
a common pattern for you, isn't it?


Nope, I learned that the numbers is a starting point, but hardly the
final determination of a boats real world performance. In fact many of
the folks here taught me that when I whipped out a bunch of silly
numbers against Neal's Coronado 27.


but the NS 36 SD is almost as fast as your boat;

It's almost as fast like my boat is almost as fast as a J29...except
it isn't.


in some situations its faster, like if you leave your jib at home.



Uh huh. And if I just leave the anchor down you'd certainly pass
me...eventually!


and you'll catch up to where I was
about 40 years ago.


Aboard a Nonsuch? No thanks!


You've totally lost it here, booby! Are you seriously claiming
that the
35s5 without a jib can beat a boat that rates at 141 or even 160???



You clearly don't understand the fractional rig at all. Most of the
35s5's drive comes from the mainsail. She does everything well under
her main alone, even besting hull speed with good wind. She's
thousands of lbs less than a Nonsuch, has less drag and so on. It's
not a debate, except for you, Jeff. We've done it.



And
you think you have any credibility left? BWHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Credibility with....a guy who sails a Siedelmann, a fellow with a
Trawler, and old fart who's never owned a performance disp.
monohull...and who else? Sockpuppets? I'm one of the few people who's
actually sailing out of this group! Don't make me laugh! Who else is
on that team of yours? Sloco with his Depressed 30 PHRF
Slothosaurus??? Bwahahahahaha!



But this just proves my point. If you're claiming that a boat
that's a
couple of percent faster is all the difference in the world, then the
crude VPP numbers I gave are actually pretty definitive in showing
that
there's no way that a Benny without a jib can overcome that handicap.



You can crunch those numbers until you turn blue. Nothing beats the
actual sailing itself. The blue hulled NS36 fell behind us on two
tacks on a close reach. Later, on more of a beam reach it was very
close, but we still pulled away when the heavy puffs came along and
the 35s5 just surges forward. The NS36 did not respond that way. This
was not the 1st time we sailed next to an NS. We sail over to them
often because they're pretty to look at.


But these moments
usually last a few seconds are caused by surfing and momentary gusts.
They don't happen often (except in your fantasies) on a close reach
in
18-20 knots steady.


No, Jeff. They don't happen on a Nonsuch. But on a 35s5 they happen
more often. And on a J Boat they happen even more often. That's why
the Nonsuch won't rate 126 like a 35s5 and rates 165 here.



Of course, but its essentially the same hull shape.


Essentially...yes. Drives me nuts when folks say they're identical.


USSailing lists the NS 36 SD as 141.


Get over yourself. That would mean the NS36 could take on a J30!!!!
BWAHAHAHHA! The most common rating for the NS36 in the US is 156,
which is much like my C&C 32. The 35s5 sails circles around on the C&C
32 just like it does to the NS36. Ask Sloco if his Express 30, which
rates close to 141, would be beaten by a NS36! Boat for boat he'd
trounce the Nonsuch.


So what is it? Does it have a low rating because its raced by pros,
or a
high rating because its too hard for the average racer? You seem to
flip you argument back and forth.


She's now too old to be raced by many pros. The 36.7 is the pick of
the moment and even that's getting old. The 35s5 is tricky to sail at
it's best and hard for the average racer to deal with. I was well
warned by other racers before I bought her, but then we didn't plan to
race, so moot issue. 35s5's that win often are campaigned by pretty
high end crews. Windriven is such a boat and the owner admits the 35s5
does not hit it's rating without great tuning and a very well adapted
crew. It's just not a great boat to race unless you plan to really get
into it. As a fun and fast daysailer and cruiser she's perfect.




You made that claim that without your jib you can outsail a NS 36.



We passed the NS36 with just our mainsail on Saturday in fairly strong
winds, yes.


Its real simple: in F5 the Nonsuch (and most other boats) will be at or
near hull speed when carrying full sail. Take away the jib and the
benny doesn't have a prayer.


It's real simple. On a reach, in gusts over 20 knots, we surged right
by the Nonsuch. Was she dragging something? Your ego perhaps? I dunno,
but we passed her...as we usually do.



Without your jib? That's the whole topic of this discussion, even
though you keep avoiding it.

Not avoiding it, Jeff. No one was more surprised than me by the 35s5's
speed under the main in strong gusts. Everyone aboard was impressed.
We'd surge well above 7 knots, fall back to 6 and change. It's those
surges that put us out in front.
I don't know what else to tell you, except to post a photo sequence,
You'll claim it's fake I suppose. Oh well. Sailing tomorrow, Jeff.



RB
35s5
NY

Its not really worth spending any time on this. In true booby form, he
first told the story with winds "just short of whitecaps" but then after
I showed that it would take winds over 20 knots he changes the story
to "gusts over 20." In other words, he agreed completely with me and
simply changed his story to make sense.

As for the rating of the NS 36 SD, USSailing lists it as 141, with the
normal keel at 156. But that's not particularly relevant unless booby
is claiming that without a jib his boat would rate at 141.



Capt. Rob wrote:
Nauti-babble! You're just showing how little you know!


Wetted surface and hull shape is babble? Oh. Okay!


So you didn't understand the numbers and you gave up learning.
This is
a common pattern for you, isn't it?


Nope, I learned that the numbers is a starting point, but hardly the
final determination of a boats real world performance. In fact many of
the folks here taught me that when I whipped out a bunch of silly
numbers against Neal's Coronado 27.


but the NS 36 SD is almost as fast as your boat;

It's almost as fast like my boat is almost as fast as a J29...except
it isn't.


in some situations its faster, like if you leave your jib at home.


Uh huh. And if I just leave the anchor down you'd certainly pass
me...eventually!


and you'll catch up to where I was
about 40 years ago.


Aboard a Nonsuch? No thanks!


You've totally lost it here, booby! Are you seriously claiming
that the
35s5 without a jib can beat a boat that rates at 141 or even 160???



You clearly don't understand the fractional rig at all. Most of the
35s5's drive comes from the mainsail. She does everything well under
her main alone, even besting hull speed with good wind. She's
thousands of lbs less than a Nonsuch, has less drag and so on. It's
not a debate, except for you, Jeff. We've done it.



And
you think you have any credibility left? BWHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Credibility with....a guy who sails a Siedelmann, a fellow with a
Trawler, and old fart who's never owned a performance disp.
monohull...and who else? Sockpuppets? I'm one of the few people who's
actually sailing out of this group! Don't make me laugh! Who else is
on that team of yours? Sloco with his Depressed 30 PHRF
Slothosaurus??? Bwahahahahaha!



But this just proves my point. If you're claiming that a boat
that's a
couple of percent faster is all the difference in the world, then the
crude VPP numbers I gave are actually pretty definitive in showing
that
there's no way that a Benny without a jib can overcome that handicap.


You can crunch those numbers until you turn blue. Nothing beats the
actual sailing itself. The blue hulled NS36 fell behind us on two
tacks on a close reach. Later, on more of a beam reach it was very
close, but we still pulled away when the heavy puffs came along and
the 35s5 just surges forward. The NS36 did not respond that way. This
was not the 1st time we sailed next to an NS. We sail over to them
often because they're pretty to look at.


But these moments
usually last a few seconds are caused by surfing and momentary gusts.
They don't happen often (except in your fantasies) on a close reach
in
18-20 knots steady.


No, Jeff. They don't happen on a Nonsuch. But on a 35s5 they happen
more often. And on a J Boat they happen even more often. That's why
the Nonsuch won't rate 126 like a 35s5 and rates 165 here.



Of course, but its essentially the same hull shape.


Essentially...yes. Drives me nuts when folks say they're identical.


USSailing lists the NS 36 SD as 141.


Get over yourself. That would mean the NS36 could take on a J30!!!!
BWAHAHAHHA! The most common rating for the NS36 in the US is 156,
which is much like my C&C 32. The 35s5 sails circles around on the C&C
32 just like it does to the NS36. Ask Sloco if his Express 30, which
rates close to 141, would be beaten by a NS36! Boat for boat he'd
trounce the Nonsuch.


So what is it? Does it have a low rating because its raced by pros,
or a
high rating because its too hard for the average racer? You seem to
flip you argument back and forth.


She's now too old to be raced by many pros. The 36.7 is the pick of
the moment and even that's getting old. The 35s5 is tricky to sail at
it's best and hard for the average racer to deal with. I was well
warned by other racers before I bought her, but then we didn't plan to
race, so moot issue. 35s5's that win often are campaigned by pretty
high end crews. Windriven is such a boat and the owner admits the 35s5
does not hit it's rating without great tuning and a very well adapted
crew. It's just not a great boat to race unless you plan to really get
into it. As a fun and fast daysailer and cruiser she's perfect.




You made that claim that without your jib you can outsail a NS 36.


We passed the NS36 with just our mainsail on Saturday in fairly strong
winds, yes.


Its real simple: in F5 the Nonsuch (and most other boats) will be at or
near hull speed when carrying full sail. Take away the jib and the
benny doesn't have a prayer.


It's real simple. On a reach, in gusts over 20 knots, we surged right
by the Nonsuch. Was she dragging something? Your ego perhaps? I dunno,
but we passed her...as we usually do.



Without your jib? That's the whole topic of this discussion, even
though you keep avoiding it.

Not avoiding it, Jeff. No one was more surprised than me by the 35s5's
speed under the main in strong gusts. Everyone aboard was impressed.
We'd surge well above 7 knots, fall back to 6 and change. It's those
surges that put us out in front.
I don't know what else to tell you, except to post a photo sequence,
You'll claim it's fake I suppose. Oh well. Sailing tomorrow, Jeff.



RB
35s5
NY

Its not really worth spending any time on this. In true booby form,
he
first told the story with winds "just short of whitecaps" but then
after
I showed that it would take winds over 20 knots he changes the
story
to "gusts over 20."


Uh, Jeff, do you KNOW when white caps form. Check the BEAUFORT WIND
SCALE, which says crested WAVELETS at 17-21 knots. Full whitecaps
around 22-27 knots and this is ESTIMATED. Yesterday we had some winds
above 20 knots and NO whitecaps formed. You're just a numbers guy,
Jeff. The trouble is, everything with sailing and the water is very
variable.

In other words, he agreed completely with me and
simply changed his story to make sense.


We passed the NS36 with main alone. TWICE. Wind conditions we 15-20
knots with some strong gusts above that. Steady winds 22-27 knots
usually bring whitecaps on protected waters, Jeff.


As for the rating of the NS 36 SD, USSailing lists it as 141


Yep, so Jeff claims the NS36 is right there with a J30, Express 30 and
so on! BWAHAHAHAHAHHAHA! 141 with the NS 36's slow drive out of the
pocket due to it's weight is just hilarious! There is no way Jeff has
sailed fast monohull boats, NO WAY AT ALL.

Around here, the NS 36 rates 165. And that's that. The way we sail by
all Nonsuch vessels reflects that rating. Nothing beats real world
experience, Jeff. I'm out there sailing while you pull out books and
parrot numbers.


RB
35s5
NY