Thank You JEFF!!!
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
ups.com...
I'd take the Swan, but not the Wauquez or J. We could have had either,
but the designs were not comparable to the 35s5. In the case of the
Wauquez we looked at one in CT in very good shape. Bunks were too
short, head was tiny, no swim platform.


A swim platform is a necessity for a sailboat to be worthwhile?

A feature you want is "worthwhile" and being able to sleep comfortably
on a 60-80K boat is not a "tall" order, but tough to find if you're
tall. The J-Boat had sleeping room, but no swim platform and no aft
cabin. Great boat for a couple, but less so for a family of 3 or 4.

Or, if maintained properly, they might be just fine. Best non-skid
available.

25-30 years is the typical lifespan for teak decks. Some go longer.
Teak decks can also hide expensive problems. I love them...but don't
want them on an older boat.
I'd have to try a Swan to know if it's a good boat for me. I don't
accept any boat by virtue of it's name. I looked at some pretty "good"
boats that were huge let-downs because of poor designs. The Tartan 34
MK2 and Briistol 35.5 were near the top of my list....and they I got
aboard them.
We looked at the Beneteau 35s5 and I had little hope of liking it. Life
can be funny. The 35s5 had the features we wanted and light air
ability. We then looked into the specific quality points and
history....we had found our boat. An added bonus...there are few
around. We have plenty of Bristols and Tartans, even Swans and a single
Nordic 30. But the 35s5 is rare enough here that I won't see it on the
road too often so to speak. Of course the main thing were the test
sails and the 35s5 was a blast, or as someone else wrote, "a screamer."
Anyway...I think you understand my choices as the group also does in
reality. But measured non-trolling posts like this one only drives them
deeper into a frenzy.

Not me, because I don't disagree with anything you said.

Max

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

Geesh, Max, hold old are you? Roll tacking has
been acceptable for as long as I can remember.
They're just now beginning to crack down on
kinetics. And in my opinion, the Laser class
overlooks more kinetics than any other class. You
can always spot the Laser sailors when they
sailing in another class. They're the ones
ooching, sculling, pumping, torquing, and roll
jibing every 30 seconds. Interestingly, they're
also the ones not getting along with their crew.
Kind of explains why they single hand.
S.
"Maxprop" wrote in message
k.net...
:: Roll-tacking was not allowed in Snipe events
when I raced them. Now
: apparently it's SOP. When just sailing around
the lake with friends or my
: wife, I used to roll-tack the Snipe and found it
to be a very effective way
: to power through the tack. This was long before
discussions of the maneuver
: hit the sailing press. Later I used it
routinely when racing Lasers, but
: finally was DSQ'd in one race in a regatta in
Michigan for using "disallowed
: kinetics." Forced to stop, it ****ed me off so
thoroughly that I sold the
: Laser and quit dingy racing altogether. It was
a bitter pill to discover
: that years later it was considered okay.
:
: Max
:
:

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message

I'm afraid I can't agree and never met anyone who would. Being able to
get a reasonable night's sleep aboard is pretty important even for a
weekend cruiser. Sleep is pretty important to sail a boat safely the
next day.

I'd agree completely.

I can't imagine anyone buying a boat with such a critical
shortcoming. Of course most people aren't 6'3, so they have no problem.

That's the point. My son-in-law is 6'4", and the berths on my boat are all
about 6'3", so he isn't comfortable. But then I bought the boat before my
daughter married him, and I'm not about to trade a wonderful boat to
accommodate someone who stays aboard one or two weekends a year.

I also don't think it's asking too much for a boat to have a head with
legroom for a tall person to be able to use the toilet.

Again agreed. I once owned a boat with "standup" headroom in the head, but
that spec must have been written by the Japanese gent who built the thing.
I could stand up, but only with my head bent forward. Not pleasant. My
current boat has enough headroom for a 6 footer to stand with ample
clearance.

Sadly, too many
boats, including some highly touted models are poorly designed. If a
Catalina 350 or Beneteau 35s5 can manage to hit the right notes, I
don't see why I should accept less because a premium name is stamped
somewhere.

This is were we diverge. Boat manufacturers don't build yachts for people
who are a standard deviation or two above the norm in height. They build
for the universal "average man" of 5'7" to 6'1", roughly 160 to 200 lbs. If
your boat's berths can accommodate a 6'3" man comfortably, so much the
better. But most boats aren't built to do so. The Catalina 42, for
example, has a pullman berth which will accommodate taller people sleeping
alone (diagonally), and many newer designs from various manufacturers have
aft doubles which will do similarly. But don't plan to sleep with your
spouse in such berths if you're much over 6'. My son-in-law sleeps
diagonally in our pull-out double with our 3 y.o. grandson, and our daughter
sleeps in the single across from him.

When it comes to choosing a boat, DESIGN is where the search
begins....not subjective beauty or performance. In other words, if the
boat don't fit, I aint buying.

That may be a significant decision for you, especially with your height. I,
OTOH, look for sailing characteristics, aesthetics, quality of construction
and integrity of design first and foremost. THEN I look below, and if the
boat meets my needs there--I'm 5'11"--I'll buy it. I'm different than most
at boat shows: 99% of the people go below immediately. I spend most of my
time topside, and if the boat seems intelligently designed and well laid
out, then I'll go below. If it's an abortion topside, I'll skip the
interior. Examples of the latter were the larger Morgan Out Island series
of cruisers. They were arguably among the ugliest, poorest sailing boats of
all time. But they were amazingly commodious below, ostensibly built for
the charter trade. One acquaintance who owned a 34 OI claimed he had to
start the engine to tack in light air, and I believe him. But he was a big
dude and the berths were long and wide. You'd have loved it. g

My current boat is a classic, CCA-type boat with a fairly narrow beam and
the interior space of a smaller boat. There are many other 34' boats that
would be far larger below, but not come anywhere near her in terms of
quality, seaworthiness, seakindliness, general sailing ability, sail
handling, boat speed, etc. I routinely leave a friend's brand new Catalina
350 in my (almost indiscernible) wake on all points of sail except to
weather in under 3kts. of wind. That boat is huge below, but drags its
transom like a powerboat, leaving a wake that rocks boats in nearby marinas.
It isn't fast by any definition. You'd love it. g The point is--I'm
quite pleased with my current boat. I've sacrificed some space and perhaps
some comfort below--although it's acceptably comfortable for my wife and
me--in order to have a boat that sails beautifully, gives a very comfortable
ride in all conditions, is strong enough to take anything thrown at it, and
still draw comments of admiration from everyone who sees her. I wouldn't
exclude the 35s5 from my list if searching for another boat in that size
range (I'm not--the next boat will be 40' or longer) but it would be a
disappointment to own a boat that resembles the current genera of bleach
bottles churned out en masse these days.

Max

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

"NotPony" wrote in messag

Geesh, Max, hold old are you? Roll tacking has
been acceptable for as long as I can remember.

I sailed Snipes in the early 70s. The SCIRA rule book, at that time,
prohibited "ooching, sculling, pumping, rocking, and any other kinetic
movements which might give the competitor an unfair advantage." I never
roll tacked in a race, but did so all the time while just day sailing the
boat. The Snipe roll tacks as well as any boat I've sailed, which is
probably why Snipe sailors all do it these days.

They're just now beginning to crack down on
kinetics. And in my opinion, the Laser class
overlooks more kinetics than any other class.

When I began to sail Lasers in '72, no one was roll tacking except me and a
few others from fleets in and around Detroit and Indianapolis. (I can't
honestly say what was happening out West or East, however.) Other skippers
used to ask me what I was doing, and I was always happy to oblige with info
and instructions on how to do it. Unfortunately one of them was a district
officer who took my information back to a national meeting at which kinetics
were deemed "unfair." The following spring I sailed in a regatta on the
Detroit River and was DSQ'd in a race for roll-tacking. I still won my
class, but that race was my throwout. Lucky for me it was my second to last
race, because I did poorly in the last race after being told I'd be DSQ'd if
I roll tacked even once. ****ed off, I sold the boat, and three years
later everyone was roll-tacking Lasers. The national big wigs must have had
a change of heart, or at least decided they'd be unable to stop something
that everyone was doing by then.

You
can always spot the Laser sailors when they
sailing in another class. They're the ones
ooching, sculling, pumping, torquing, and roll
jibing every 30 seconds. Interestingly, they're
also the ones not getting along with their crew.
Kind of explains why they single hand.

Actually it's that they normally single hand that makes them unable to get
along with crew. After single handing for a year or so, I found it
frustrating to go back to having a crew (my wife) who couldn't read my mind.
It was simply awful to have to vocalize intentions and instructions again.
After dumping the Laser, I bought another Snipe and regretted it for the
entire season. Sold it in the Fall. It was either that or face the
prospect of divorce. g It was a good decision, because we've been married
for almost 35 years.

Max

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

Maxprop wrote:
"NotPony" wrote in messag

Geesh, Max, hold old are you? Roll tacking has
been acceptable for as long as I can remember.

I sailed Snipes in the early 70s. The SCIRA rule book, at that time,
prohibited "ooching, sculling, pumping, rocking, and any other kinetic
movements which might give the competitor an unfair advantage."
....

There was a lot of debate in the late '60's as to whether roll tacking
was considered kinetics. I was taught in 1965 to roll tack, but to
avoid doing it aggressively or too frequently. That is, it was OK to
do it to avoid losing ground on a tack, but not OK if you were gaining.

I remember a day when it was absolutely dead calm and a dozen teams
were sitting on the dock waiting for a breeze, and one team challenged
another to a roll tack race. Four or five teams hopped in their Tech
Dinghies and started roll tacking around the river. Several were so
good they seemed to be doing 2 or 3 knots! It was a bit of an eye
opener for me.

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

Jeff wrote....


I remember a day when it was absolutely dead calm and we motored.
Winds picked up and still we motored. Everyone was sailing, heeled over
and really feeling it. We have a multihull. We motored and motored and
motored....and motored some more.

Jeff

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

Capt. Rob wrote:
Jeff wrote....


I remember a day when it was absolutely dead calm and we motored.
Winds picked up and still we motored.
....

Wow, that's really funny, Bob. Perhaps your most creative yet.

But seriously, what are you going to do now that you know that your
new boat is such a dog in light air it needs and extra 24 seconds/mile
handicap to stay with the Catalinas and Hunters? It sure looks like
this "stepping stone" was a step backwards in performance.

Good research, there, Bob. At least you have A/C so it won't be so
horrific sitting at the dock.

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

One of the problems is that coaches, particularly
on the college, level aren't making sure the
sailors understand the rules. One of the coaches
I hired was sailing in one of our fun races. He
was continually pumping upwind in about 5k. I
pulled him aside later and told him he was
breaking rule 42. He and another college sailor
told me that their coaches had told them that
pumping was ok on the basis of 'once per wave'.
Neither of them had a copy of a rule book (kind of
dumb in my opinion) so I pointed out 42.2 and 42.3
Yeah, once per wave, but not beating and only if
surfing or planing is possible.
S.

"Maxprop" wrote in message
.net...
: I sailed Snipes in the early 70s. The SCIRA
rule book, at that time,
: prohibited "ooching, sculling, pumping, rocking,
and any other kinetic
: movements which might give the competitor an
unfair advantage." I never
: roll tacked in a race, but did so all the time
while just day sailing the
: boat. The Snipe roll tacks as well as any boat
I've sailed, which is
: probably why Snipe sailors all do it these days.
:
: They're just now beginning to crack down on
: kinetics. And in my opinion, the Laser class
: overlooks more kinetics than any other class.
:
: When I began to sail Lasers in '72, no one was
roll tacking except me and a
: few others from fleets in and around Detroit and
Indianapolis. (I can't
: honestly say what was happening out West or
East, however.) Other skippers
: used to ask me what I was doing, and I was
always happy to oblige with info
: and instructions on how to do it. Unfortunately
one of them was a district
: officer who took my information back to a
national meeting at which kinetics
: were deemed "unfair." The following spring I
sailed in a regatta on the
: Detroit River and was DSQ'd in a race for
roll-tacking. I still won my
: class, but that race was my throwout. Lucky for
me it was my second to last
: race, because I did poorly in the last race
after being told I'd be DSQ'd if
: I roll tacked even once. ****ed off, I sold the
boat, and three years
: later everyone was roll-tacking Lasers. The
national big wigs must have had
: a change of heart, or at least decided they'd be
unable to stop something
: that everyone was doing by then.
:
: You
: can always spot the Laser sailors when they
: sailing in another class. They're the ones
: ooching, sculling, pumping, torquing, and roll
: jibing every 30 seconds. Interestingly,
they're
: also the ones not getting along with their
crew.
: Kind of explains why they single hand.
:
: Actually it's that they normally single hand
that makes them unable to get
: along with crew. After single handing for a
year or so, I found it
: frustrating to go back to having a crew (my
wife) who couldn't read my mind.
: It was simply awful to have to vocalize
intentions and instructions again.
: After dumping the Laser, I bought another Snipe
and regretted it for the
: entire season. Sold it in the Fall. It was
either that or face the
: prospect of divorce. g It was a good
decision, because we've been married
: for almost 35 years.
:
: Max
:
:

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

But seriously, what are you going to do now that you know that your
new boat is such a dog in light air it needs and extra 24 seconds/mile
handicap to stay with the Catalinas and Hunters?


Are you suggesting that a Catalina 36 or 34 will sail faster in light
air??? Do tell.


RB
35s5
NY

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

"Maxprop" wrote in message
.net...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message

"Capt.Mooron" wrote in message
news:Dalef.124008$yS6.75248@clgrps12...
Bush won the election! CM


This is probably why you can't travel to the US.

He can't?

Sheesh... I've got my EU passport so no problem..... but I don't want to get
shaken down for a retinal scan and fingerprint for your Homeland Security
Office.

I have 2 US Visas and an American Social Security Card. I have travelled
through-out the USA years ago.... down the west coat to Mexico taking in
every state along the West coast... back up from Mexico through the central
western states.... I would say that I have been to more states than most of
you.. I've been in every state up the Eastern coast and all along your
border with Canada. I've been through most of the central states as well.
The USA offers nothing I couldn't find anywhere else on the planet. In
general... I found it to be paranoid, rude and the people generally ignorant
of anything outside their respective states ... let alone their national
borders.

Canada, Mexico, Cuba and the Caribbean offers everything the US does.... so
I have no need to travel there except maybe to visit some of my many
American friends..... but not at the price of getting a shake-down and
frisked at the front door. Most people specify no US stops on trips to other
countries now.

Globally speaking... and in very general terms.... I found that years ago
Americans were tolerated but disliked.... whereas now it seems they are
despised and avoided. I must state however that I have had pleasant
experiences with the American Tourists visiting Canada. I also had the
pleasure to meet with some very nice Americans during my travels there. It
seems that politeness and courtesy is contagious.

But rest assured... I'd prefer a trip to the USA than any Muslim Country
right now!

CM