Thank You JEFF!!!
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message



but said the interior is crap compared to my boat.
Was your boat built in South Carolina or France? Could that be a
factor?


Ahhh. Either you know something more than you're indicating or it's a
lucky shot. 35s5 interiors were indeed made in overseas and to a much
higher standard. I only wish the 36.7 had the same quality or even the
bigger Firsts.

There have been some issues with the US-built Beneteaus. I wasn't aware
that the 35 was built in France, while the 36 was built here. That's why I
asked.


happen to like Beneteaus in general. I've never been a
Beneteau-basher.

I'm sorry to say that I'm still a Benny basher of sorts.

Coulda fooled me.

I think the
newer boats have quality control issues and poorly fit interiors.
Design wise they are excellent. It's the execution I'm less than
thrilled with. I won't defend bad boats just because they carry the
same label of MY boat. Beneteau should improve quality to match Hunter,
who has made big improvements, even if you don't like their designs.

Have to disagree there. Hunters are popular and ubiquitous here. Several
friends have bought them, and ALL have had numerous problems, both with the
engineering and the execution of the designs. To be fair, Hunter has been
reasonable and fair in repairing the problems. Sadly the reasons for the
problems are still present, and additional problems continue to emerge,
making these boats less-than-desirable in my opinion. Friends don't let
friends buy Hunters.

If you were honest
you'd have to admit that your boat is not in the same league as a
Wauquiez,
Sweden, J-Boat, Swan, or many others costing far more.


I don't know enough to to comment on the Wauquiez...have only looked at
one, Sweden quality is variable and the cabin sucks for anyone over 6
feet. J boat is no where near the quality and problem free nature of
the 35s5. J-Boat hulls are a disaster and wet decks are common. Don't
even both citing racing as a cause. J34c's are know for problems and
they are for the same market at the 35s5. But only two 35s5's were
found (by me) to have deck problems and both were in small areas due to
a mast drop and poor aftermarket hardware installation. As you know,
the 35s5 hull is NOT cored. The rig is rod rigging and the chainplates
are FAR superior to J-Boat's system on their boats of the late 80's and
early 90s. Maxprop, I don't think you realize that Beneteau has had
some above average boats score higher than others...among them the 345
and 35s5. A Swan is a true semi custome boat with a level of quality
equalled by few...along with the price. Talking with Surveyors and
yards teaches a person that the differences between a Catalina 350 and
a Tartan 3500 are not a big as Tartan would hope to have you believe.
The 35s5 is well regarded in Europe as an offshore racer/cruiser and
has very few reported problems. The ex charter versions appear to have
stood up well according to owners.
As far as Hunter or Catalina...while it's popular to bash them as well,
they're really not much different from the Tartan either when it comes
to real world quality differences. Any of these boats can generally be
sailed anywhere with some simple modifications and it's done all the
time.

I'll still take the Swan. Or the Wauquiez, or the J. Most other sailors
would, too, especially if the condition and price were in the same range as
your boat. But I'm guessing that if the condition were equal to your boat,
the price on those others would be quite a bit higher. A good survey should
eliminate buying a wet deck or chainplate issues.

Max

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...

Hmm... well, I think there is a spot when there's zero heel,

I'm open to learning under what conditions this may be true. I can't
conceive of it, however. If the boat is hard on the wind and there IS
wind, a boat will heel, unless it's one of those redundant-hull thingys
that Oz sails.

Well, I thought you said that yourself... upwind, very light wind. I would
think that when there's a lull in light wind, the heel would go to zero, if
it wasn't nearly there already. I'm not sure how one would judge that, since
I don't have nor have I seen a tilt meter that accurate.

but it may not be sustainable upwind. Assuming no current and light wind,
it seems like you would want some heel.

You'll always have *some* heel, but minimizing it is advantageous for a
number of reasons. If this weren't true, why all the railmeat on maxi
boats? Dinghies are generally best sailed, in all but very light winds,
with a minimum of heel. Big boats are no different, unless they are
classics with long overhangs which increase effective waterline when
heeled.

I've always used the term heading up or pinching up. I guess you did say
something about falling off before attempting to heading up.

I've always interpreted "pinching" as simply sailing too close to the
wind. An example would be a boat with the ability to sail at, say, 30
degrees to the relative wind. Pinching would be to sail it along at 27
degrees, and footing would be at 35 degrees, plus or minus. Feathering
is, according to Snipe guru Ted Wells, alternating between footing and
pinching, but maintaining speed by spending only that amount of time
pinching that won't denigrate boat speed significantly. It's an active
process, with the skipper moving the helm quite a bit.

Ok... so feathering is zigzagging.

There are some experienced skippers who prefer to find that sweet spot
when hard on the wind, holding the helm very still. I can generally
outpoint them, but they do seem to win their share of races. It's just
another school of thought.

Yup... straight line sailing is faster.. turn = slowing.

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

Several
friends have bought them, and ALL have had numerous problems, both with
the
engineering and the execution of the designs. To be fair, Hunter has
been
reasonable and fair in repairing the problems.


We have three new hunters at the yard and I'm not aware of any service
issues. I'm also selling a 1997 Hunter 43 and have access to it's
service history, which shows very little in the way of trouble. What
type of problems have you seen?

I'll still take the Swan. Or the Wauquiez, or the J. Most other
sailors
would, too, especially if the condition and price were in the same
range as
your boat.

I'd take the Swan, but not the Wauquez or J. We could have had either,
but the designs were not comparable to the 35s5. In the case of the
Wauquez we looked at one in CT in very good shape. Bunks were too
short, head was tiny, no swim platform. Teak decks may be nearing the
end of their life cycle on boats so fitted. Look at the prices on
Yachtworld...pretty much the same as the 35s5. The J 34C was in the
running for a while. We really liked sailing it, just as much as the
35s5 in fact. But the fit and finish below was inferior. No aft cabin,
no swim platform and another head designed for short people. J-boat
does seem to understand that people over 6 feet also need to sleep. We
could have bought the beautiful 34C, but the cabin was not even as well
done as our C&C 32.
The features we wanted are important to us as we'd tried them on other
boats and could see their practicality. Because of the failings of the
Wauqiez and Jboat, they can't compete with the 35s5 from a design
standpoint. I'd take the Swan I suppose, but are you so certain that
lofty build quality would still make a boat the right fit for everyone?

RB
35s5
NY

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

No. There is no such thing as zero heel--a boat will always heel when
beating to windward unless it's a small dinghy with a 300lb. skipper and
similarly-sized crew.

Not true.


OzOne wrote:
Boats, even large yachts are often stacked to windward in light
conditions, particularly now that the plastic sails no longer need
heel to induce some sort of shape.
It produces better gust response, and helmmovement in the gust among
other things


Yep. The boat accelerates much better and if it's one of those
gawd-awful days with chop & light air, it can go thru the lumpy parts
better.

It doesn't take a heavy crew, even.

OTOH there are times when I like a lot of heel, like just before a tack ;)

DSK

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

Yup... straight line sailing is faster.. turn = slowing.


OzOne wrote:
Yup, it's faster, but letting the boat roll up in the gusts and
shooting just a tad gains a whole lot of ground to windward.
Straight line an Etchells and you'll get murdered!


The way I think of it, in windward sailing you are either gaining speed
or gaining height. THe ideal would be to go fast & high, but usually as
you put the boat closer & closer to the wind, it loses drive and begins
to slow. The key is to do it gently and to know how to flatten &
super-trim the sails so as to produce a long "hang" time. Then you also
have to know the point at which the boat's underwater foils lose enough
effectiveness that you're making more leeway than gaining ground to
windward.

Also, anticipate waves & lulls so as not to get caught high & slow.

If you're going to get into a pinching contest, go into it with speed!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

The way I think of it, in windward sailing you are either gaining speed

or gaining height.


I've never seen such obvious stuff posted. It's almost amazing that
Trawler boy is posting this as if Loco doesn't know it already, let
alone Ozzy. Hey, Trawler boy, when you feather a heavy disp. full keel
cruiser what is the momentum factor vs. wetted surface.
Gee, lemmee think! Uh DUH!

Could you people actually post ANYTHING not available in ANY child's
sailing book?

RB
35s5
NY

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message

I've never seen such obvious stuff posted.

Pay Attention Rob... you'll learn somthing!

It's almost amazing that
Trawler boy is posting this as if Loco doesn't know it already, let
alone Ozzy. Hey, Trawler boy, when you feather a heavy disp. full keel
cruiser what is the momentum factor vs. wetted surface.
Gee, lemmee think! Uh DUH!

You don't "feather" a heavy or moderate displacement cruiser Bob. Pinching
does little... it's better to foot off and gain power. Momentum prevents
stalling between puffs in very light air and in those conditions at 2.5 kts
intial speed... I can coast for couple of hundred yards easy.


Could you people actually post ANYTHING not available in ANY child's
sailing book?

It's for your benefit... Pay Attention! It should come in handy for your
new definitive book on sailing you claim to be writing. What's the title
going to be... here are a few suggestions.

"Watch Bob Sail... V-r-r-o-o-o-m"

"Engine Hour Meters... Placement and Adjustment"

"Chrome Anchors... when your boat needs to Shine"

"The Backyard Surveyor's Boat Bible"

"The Etiquette of Modern Dockside Living"

"Boats... How to present a Sow's Ear as a Silk Purse"

CM

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

Gee, lemmee think! Uh DUH!


You don't "feather" a heavy or moderate displacement cruiser Bob.


Wow. Talk about the sarcasm going over Mooron's head! Way to go,
Mooron. You're right on target! Can't wait for the next lesson. Oh, and
ANY sailboat can be feathered in certain conditions. We've already been
down this road and I posted links to prove it. Look up "Feather" in a
sailing book from Barney Goes Sailing!

RB
35s5
NY

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message

Wow. Talk about the sarcasm going over Mooron's head! Way to go,
Mooron. You're right on target! Can't wait for the next lesson. Oh, and
ANY sailboat can be feathered in certain conditions. We've already been
down this road and I posted links to prove it. Look up "Feather" in a
sailing book from Barney Goes Sailing!

Don't wet your pampers Bob.... I didn't make it to the bait store this
morning.

I never said a full keeler can't be feathered Bob... you are suffering
selective interpretation. I said it's not done since there is little
advantage in it.

I'll wait for your definitive book on sailing where you will suggest to
engage the auxiliary to "feather"...

Bob's new book title?... " AC, why you shouldn't sail in hot weather"

CM

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

You don't "feather" a heavy or moderate displacement cruiser Bob.


Above is what Mooron said...but he never said it...or didn't mean
it...or...something about Pampers....
He sure knows boats!


RB
35s5
NY