Thank You JEFF!!!
 

"Maxprop" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...

Once again, the IRS might like to have a chat with you. You must show a
profit within five years or the write-offs become retroactively taxable.


NO. Totally incorrect. There is no law nor IRS ruling that says I have to
make a profit. If I can show that I've made a good faith effort to make a
profit, that's all that's required. Suggestion: keep your day job.

You'd be well advised to check that out, John. According to the Uniform
Tax Code of the IRS, you have five years to make a profit, after which
your business is no longer considered a business. Got a good lawyer?

It's just not true Max. They may consider it a hobby, but if I can show that
it's an ongoing business, there's nothing they can do. My father, for
example, had a paper loss for 14 years in a row. Of course, they audited
him, but he won every time. After the third audit, he told them they would
be liable for his expenses, and on the fourth audit, he collected from them.

Very good lawyer actually. Even better CPA. g

Fergeddit. No one can afford Bay Area real estate any longer. g

I can, have, and will.

Did you miss the smiley face, Jon? There are always investments in real
estate everywhere and in all price ranges, but I'm betting you can't
afford the ones that will give your the rate of return you need to offset
the interest on a boat loan.

Don't take that bet. I don't need the money. I have a good strategy for
rates of return, but thanks for your concern. g (Didn't miss it, btw)


Bottom line... the cash flow is much better. Thus, it's a better deal
to finance the boat.

Well, I've left out a lot. I'm sure you can pick it apart if you try.

If you'd simply bought the boat, your cash flow would have been
positive. With your calculations, it couldn't possibly be. Fact: the
interest you pay on a boat loan will always exceed the tax savings
possible by writing off the interest expense.

Huh? That's a negative cash flow of $25K all at once!

Get a job in the real world, Jon. Of course it is. Every time a business
buys something, it's a negative cash flow. Are you claiming that you only
have a positive cash flow? Constantly? Just a few paragraphs ago you
claim that an indefinite net loss is fine with the IRS, but now you're
decrying a negative cash flow. Which is it?

I never claimed that. What I'm saying is that a huge negative of $25K is
dumb if I don't have to do it.


But to cut to the chase, we were talking about boats used for
recreation, not for business. If you can legitimately use yours for
business, more power to ya. Most of us either can't or wish to risk an
audit every other year. The IRS just loves it when folks write-off
boats as a business expense. The old rule was generally thus: the very
rich can write-off very expensive boats, at least in part, as business
expenses, but the rest of us cannot write off our small craft unless we
are in the charter business. If you do what you claim above, you'll
doubtlessly be audited sometime down the road. Hope your documentation
is in order.

You said NEVER buddy. The answer is not never. In addition, there is
nothing wrong with having a deduction as a second home on a boat. You're
required to have sleeping accomodations, a working head, and cooking
facilities. And, that has nothing to do with a commercial venture.

But only the interest on the loan can be written off, not the entire
payment, the dock fee, and the other things you claim to write off.

Of course.. interest on the loan can be written off. A sizeable portion of
the other expenses can be written off as business expenses. I could use the
boat 50% as a vacation home 50% as a business. There's nothing wrong with
that at all.

Sheesh. I'm sure glad you aren't my accountant!

I'll bet yours will be Bubba's roommate at Leavenworth, if its he who's
been advising you.

I like my privacy. A private suite would be more to my liking. g

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

I'm not sure what a saild is, but it could be a deduction if you entertain
customers on it. g

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
oups.com...
How about if I put my company name on my saild, can I count that as a
deduction?
The cost of a new sail?

SV

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

"Maxprop" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Bzzt. Slightly more than 5%, and it's not a boat loan! My IRA return is
nearly double that. Real Estate (so far) is triple or better.

Please give me the name of the investment firm doing your IRA--according
to MONEY magazine, the best in the country are just barely doing better
than 6% yield. As for real estate, big money can be made in your area,
but only if you invested some time ago. I'm betting that you don't have
the means to invest in anything of substance today, considering that just
about anything bigger than a postage stamp in the Bay Area goes for
megabucks. If you have the means to make those sorts of RE investments,
you have the means to buy your boats for cash. And that's my
point--unless you can get a high rate of return on investments you can
afford--better than the interest on your boat loan (or your home equity
loan, if that makes you feel better)--you're better off paying cash for
the boat. From a strictly financial basis, you're better off not buying a
boat at all.

Well, I agree with your last statement, but I like to sail. It's a curse
really.

You're also making some assumptions that are not valid... e.g., where I
invest in RE.

Let me ask you this, Jon: if your home equity loans are so cheap and your
investments so damn productive, why haven't you maxed out your home equity
and invested it?????

Why do you think I haven't? (A rhetorical question)

Max

Max

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

"Scotty" wrote in message
oups.com...
How about if I put my company name on my saild, can I count that as a
deduction?
The cost of a new sail?

Sure, Scotty. No problem.

But getting the IRS to go along with it is the trick.

Max

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
I'm not sure what a saild is, but it could be a deduction if you entertain
customers on it. g

Right, Scoot. Use that sail as a picnic blanket and serve food on it.

Max

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
ups.com...
Please give me the name of the investment firm doing your
IRA--according to
MONEY magazine, the best in the country are just barely doing better
than 6%
yield.


BWAHAHHAHAHAA! Money magazine is some source! We do a lot better than
6% yield. I'm sure Jon does too and he's be nuts to hook you up with
his firm. Getting a good rate is an art. Of course Money Magazine
reports real world stats for real world shmos. When we considered
getting yacht financing we were all set for a rate of 4.99 % over 15
years with 10% down. Now look around and see what the "best" rates are.
That's better than a NEW boat term. You have to know people and make
some friends, but the better rates are out there.

Well, I guess I asked for this. You're smarter than everyone and everything
else. Why not the experts in the financial press, too?

Max

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Maxprop" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Bzzt. Slightly more than 5%, and it's not a boat loan! My IRA return is
nearly double that. Real Estate (so far) is triple or better.

Please give me the name of the investment firm doing your IRA--according
to MONEY magazine, the best in the country are just barely doing better
than 6% yield. As for real estate, big money can be made in your area,
but only if you invested some time ago. I'm betting that you don't have
the means to invest in anything of substance today, considering that just
about anything bigger than a postage stamp in the Bay Area goes for
megabucks. If you have the means to make those sorts of RE investments,
you have the means to buy your boats for cash. And that's my
point--unless you can get a high rate of return on investments you can
afford--better than the interest on your boat loan (or your home equity
loan, if that makes you feel better)--you're better off paying cash for
the boat. From a strictly financial basis, you're better off not buying
a boat at all.

Well, I agree with your last statement, but I like to sail. It's a curse
really.

You're also making some assumptions that are not valid... e.g., where I
invest in RE.

Let me ask you this, Jon: if your home equity loans are so cheap and
your investments so damn productive, why haven't you maxed out your home
equity and invested it?????

Why do you think I haven't? (A rhetorical question)

You've already indicated that you haven't by stating that you either have,
or plan to, take a home equity loan to buy your boat.

Max

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'll bet yours will be Bubba's roommate at Leavenworth, if its he who's
been
advising you.

Bubba did quite well and now owns this Tayana 48 I sail on!

Is your accountant still his "woman," Bubbles?

Max

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Maxprop" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...

Once again, the IRS might like to have a chat with you. You must show
a profit within five years or the write-offs become retroactively
taxable.


NO. Totally incorrect. There is no law nor IRS ruling that says I have
to make a profit. If I can show that I've made a good faith effort to
make a profit, that's all that's required. Suggestion: keep your day
job.

You'd be well advised to check that out, John. According to the Uniform
Tax Code of the IRS, you have five years to make a profit, after which
your business is no longer considered a business. Got a good lawyer?

It's just not true Max. They may consider it a hobby, but if I can show
that it's an ongoing business, there's nothing they can do. My father, for
example, had a paper loss for 14 years in a row. Of course, they audited
him, but he won every time. After the third audit, he told them they would
be liable for his expenses, and on the fourth audit, he collected from
them.

Oh, I'll bet those audits were a bundle of fun. Sorry to hear that ol' dad
wasn't overly successful. Hope you're doing better. What do you do, by the
way?


Did you miss the smiley face, Jon? There are always investments in real
estate everywhere and in all price ranges, but I'm betting you can't
afford the ones that will give your the rate of return you need to offset
the interest on a boat loan.

Don't take that bet. I don't need the money. I have a good strategy for
rates of return, but thanks for your concern. g (Didn't miss it, btw)

I'd really like to hear about this "strategy."

But only the interest on the loan can be written off, not the entire
payment, the dock fee, and the other things you claim to write off.

Of course.. interest on the loan can be written off. A sizeable portion of
the other expenses can be written off as business expenses. I could use
the boat 50% as a vacation home 50% as a business. There's nothing wrong
with that at all.

Not unless the IRS disagrees.

I'll bet yours will be Bubba's roommate at Leavenworth, if its he who's
been advising you.

I like my privacy. A private suite would be more to my liking. g

I was talking about your accountant, but what the hell, if going to prison
floats your boat, go for it.

Max

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

"Captain Joe Redcloud" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 02:53:17 GMT, "Jeff Coppes"
wrote:

Life is not an asset--it's a necessity for everything else. Without it
you
have no need for anything beyond a grave and some sort of container.

Max


This is so very sad.

And incredibly stupid--this whole inane discussion, that is.

Max