Thank You JEFF!!!
 

Your life is the only depreciating asset you have if you are living
right.


wish I wrote that. Wait a sec...according to Doug and Sloco...I did!

RB
35s5
NY

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

Maxprop wrote:
Snipes have made a comeback of sorts, but they are a far cry from what they
were in the Seventies. There were nearly 20,000 registered Snipes by '75.


Sure, back in the "good old days" they were the biggest
class in the world. Lot of good sailors keep a Snipe handy
for the big regattas. I know of a couple of people that race
Snipes along with two or three other classes.


No, that should NEVER be a factor. A Race Committee, or a Protest
Committee, can NOT simply DSQ a competitor without a hearing on the same
rules of order as a protest by a competitor.


That's precisely what happened. Someone protests a competitor for using
kinetics--the word was "ooching" in the instance in question--and the race
committee convenes a post-race hearing to determine who was right. The
politically-aligned sailors always won, in my experience.

To some extent, that's always true isn't it? Life is a
popularity contest.



Protest committees occasionally hand out weird decisions... I can recall
being DSQ'd for being hit by a windward boat who felt that I was in his
way... it wasn't worth an appeal.


Why? Were you that far behind? g

No, I was racing in a different class (beach cats) and had
not done well enough for contention of 1st, and I already
had a big enouogh pile of 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc trophies that
I'd begun throwing them away (in fact I've moved twice since
then and tossed out quite a few more). I didn't really care,
just made a few sarcastic remarks later to the individuals
concerned who should have known better. The guy who
protested me was a former champ in this class who was
failing miserably at a comeback and was PO'd.




Quick story: I was shoved against a mark during a rounding by a boat over
whom I clearly had rights. He knew it too, and smiled at me when I
protested him. I did my 720, lost six positions, regained three while he
won the race. Before the hearing, one of the old yacht club regulars asked
me, "Heh, heh, do you really think you can get a decision over Lew, heh,
heh?" I said, "Hell yes, he was clearly in violation of rule # such and
such . . . ." I lost.


Well, that's bull**** and it shows the minute "good ol' Lew,
heh heh" sails somewhere outside his little frog pond.

What frosts me is when such shenanigans go on at the big
events. In a major Lightning championship I was in (for the
record, we did not bring home any silver from this one), Mr
X forced his way into a mark rounding, at a gate no less,
not only hit the mark but it literally went under his boat's
hull, also ramming two other boats in the process and
fouling one's rig... Mr X was DSQ'd by a protest committee
and then had his finish mysteriously reinstated the last day
of the series.

A few years later, this guy won a big championship, and at
the dinner I asked a few people who were at this foul-up if
they remembered when Mr X sailed over the bouy and they said
hell yes, and re-told the story loudly. Mr X got very red
faced but did not say a word. I've been told his kids refer
to that big trophy as "the one Daddy got by sailing over a
mark." Personally I think that's good enough revenge.

DSK

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

"Captain Joe Redcloud" wrote in message

When was the last time you took a vacation?

This past June and July.

Could you live in a smaller, cheaper
house?

Yes, but we're building a bigger, more expensive one.

Do you eat only the cheapest food that you can find?

No, but we do eat peanut butter on occasion.

Do you ever have any
fun?

Constantly. And we pay cash for it.

I just love it when someone is so obsessed with their finances, and making
every
penny count, that they forget to live a little.

If one has the means it's not an issue.

Guess what, Jeffy?

Max.

Many people accumulate money just so they can enjoy life
more. Your life is the only depreciating asset you have if you are living
right.

Life is not an asset--it's a necessity for everything else. Without it you
have no need for anything beyond a grave and some sort of container.

Max

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

How about if I put my company name on my saild, can I count that as a
deduction?
The cost of a new sail?

SV

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message

Really? Show me--and I won't take your opinion for fact. I'd like to
see
some hard evidence.


You must be joking. We bought in on a 4 way for a 6 unit building in
Brooklyn 6 years ago.

A disaster in the making.

Our investment on that was only 50K cash. The
property was sold last year for 20 times what we paid, plus a nice tax
benefit for restoring a 90 year old building.

Uh huh. We're supposed to accept your claim that your gross yield was
$1million? Whatever.

So in 6 years we did far
better than if we'd used that same money to buy a boat outright,
assuming we could have only done one. There are many deals like that in
real estate. It makes little sense to pay in full for something you
won't keep for a long long time...such as a boat.

Two years ago I bought some land along Lake Michigan for $200K and sold it
this summer for well over two million dollars.

Oh wait, I just made that up. Like you.

Real estate speculation of the nature you describe is highly risky and
seldom pays off the way you claim it did. Being in the right place at the
right time is great, if you have a crystal ball or a clairvoyant aunt. More
often the costs involved with such speculation eat the investor alive and
mitigate any possibility of a decent return. For the average person, such a
lofty return on investment is simply not in the stars. For the average
person, the investment opportunities available, whether real estate or
paper, won't return anything near the interest rate paid on a boat loan.

Max

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Bzzt. Slightly more than 5%, and it's not a boat loan! My IRA return is
nearly double that. Real Estate (so far) is triple or better.

Please give me the name of the investment firm doing your IRA--according to
MONEY magazine, the best in the country are just barely doing better than 6%
yield. As for real estate, big money can be made in your area, but only if
you invested some time ago. I'm betting that you don't have the means to
invest in anything of substance today, considering that just about anything
bigger than a postage stamp in the Bay Area goes for megabucks. If you have
the means to make those sorts of RE investments, you have the means to buy
your boats for cash. And that's my point--unless you can get a high rate of
return on investments you can afford--better than the interest on your boat
loan (or your home equity loan, if that makes you feel better)--you're
better off paying cash for the boat. From a strictly financial basis,
you're better off not buying a boat at all.

Let me ask you this, Jon: if your home equity loans are so cheap and your
investments so damn productive, why haven't you maxed out your home equity
and invested it?????

Max

Max

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

Please give me the name of the investment firm doing your
IRA--according to
MONEY magazine, the best in the country are just barely doing better
than 6%
yield.


BWAHAHHAHAHAA! Money magazine is some source! We do a lot better than
6% yield. I'm sure Jon does too and he's be nuts to hook you up with
his firm. Getting a good rate is an art. Of course Money Magazine
reports real world stats for real world shmos. When we considered
getting yacht financing we were all set for a rate of 4.99 % over 15
years with 10% down. Now look around and see what the "best" rates are.
That's better than a NEW boat term. You have to know people and make
some friends, but the better rates are out there.

RB
35s5
NY

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...

Once again, the IRS might like to have a chat with you. You must show a
profit within five years or the write-offs become retroactively taxable.


NO. Totally incorrect. There is no law nor IRS ruling that says I have to
make a profit. If I can show that I've made a good faith effort to make a
profit, that's all that's required. Suggestion: keep your day job.

You'd be well advised to check that out, John. According to the Uniform Tax
Code of the IRS, you have five years to make a profit, after which your
business is no longer considered a business. Got a good lawyer?

Fergeddit. No one can afford Bay Area real estate any longer. g

I can, have, and will.

Did you miss the smiley face, Jon? There are always investments in real
estate everywhere and in all price ranges, but I'm betting you can't afford
the ones that will give your the rate of return you need to offset the
interest on a boat loan.

Bottom line... the cash flow is much better. Thus, it's a better deal
to finance the boat.

Well, I've left out a lot. I'm sure you can pick it apart if you try.

If you'd simply bought the boat, your cash flow would have been positive.
With your calculations, it couldn't possibly be. Fact: the interest you
pay on a boat loan will always exceed the tax savings possible by writing
off the interest expense.

Huh? That's a negative cash flow of $25K all at once!

Get a job in the real world, Jon. Of course it is. Every time a business
buys something, it's a negative cash flow. Are you claiming that you only
have a positive cash flow? Constantly? Just a few paragraphs ago you claim
that an indefinite net loss is fine with the IRS, but now you're decrying a
negative cash flow. Which is it?


But to cut to the chase, we were talking about boats used for recreation,
not for business. If you can legitimately use yours for business, more
power to ya. Most of us either can't or wish to risk an audit every
other year. The IRS just loves it when folks write-off boats as a
business expense. The old rule was generally thus: the very rich can
write-off very expensive boats, at least in part, as business expenses,
but the rest of us cannot write off our small craft unless we are in the
charter business. If you do what you claim above, you'll doubtlessly be
audited sometime down the road. Hope your documentation is in order.

You said NEVER buddy. The answer is not never. In addition, there is
nothing wrong with having a deduction as a second home on a boat. You're
required to have sleeping accomodations, a working head, and cooking
facilities. And, that has nothing to do with a commercial venture.

But only the interest on the loan can be written off, not the entire
payment, the dock fee, and the other things you claim to write off.

Sheesh. I'm sure glad you aren't my accountant!

I'll bet yours will be Bubba's roommate at Leavenworth, if its he who's been
advising you.

Max

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

I'll bet yours will be Bubba's roommate at Leavenworth, if its he who's
been
advising you.

Bubba did quite well and now owns this Tayana 48 I sail on!

http://members.aol.com/bobsprit/images/atayb.jpg

RB
35s5
NY

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
Maxprop wrote:
Snipes have made a comeback of sorts, but they are a far cry from what
they were in the Seventies. There were nearly 20,000 registered Snipes
by '75.


Sure, back in the "good old days" they were the biggest class in the
world.

Second biggest, actually. Sunfish numbered more, but probably more Snipes
were actually raced.

Lot of good sailors keep a Snipe handy for the big regattas. I know of a
couple of people that race Snipes along with two or three other classes.

I raced Snipes, Lightnings, and Lasers during the same period. It's not
uncommon.

No, that should NEVER be a factor. A Race Committee, or a Protest
Committee, can NOT simply DSQ a competitor without a hearing on the same
rules of order as a protest by a competitor.


That's precisely what happened. Someone protests a competitor for using
kinetics--the word was "ooching" in the instance in question--and the
race committee convenes a post-race hearing to determine who was right.
The politically-aligned sailors always won, in my experience.

To some extent, that's always true isn't it? Life is a popularity contest.

Of course. It's not what you know, it's whom.


Protest committees occasionally hand out weird decisions... I can recall
being DSQ'd for being hit by a windward boat who felt that I was in his
way... it wasn't worth an appeal.


Why? Were you that far behind? g

No, I was racing in a different class (beach cats) and had not done well
enough for contention of 1st, and I already had a big enouogh pile of 2nd,
3rd, 4th etc trophies that I'd begun throwing them away (in fact I've
moved twice since then and tossed out quite a few more). I didn't really
care, just made a few sarcastic remarks later to the individuals concerned
who should have known better. The guy who protested me was a former champ
in this class who was failing miserably at a comeback and was PO'd.




Quick story: I was shoved against a mark during a rounding by a boat
over whom I clearly had rights. He knew it too, and smiled at me when I
protested him. I did my 720, lost six positions, regained three while he
won the race. Before the hearing, one of the old yacht club regulars
asked me, "Heh, heh, do you really think you can get a decision over Lew,
heh, heh?" I said, "Hell yes, he was clearly in violation of rule # such
and such . . . ." I lost.


Well, that's bull**** and it shows the minute "good ol' Lew, heh heh"
sails somewhere outside his little frog pond.

Lew knew better than to ever race elsewhere. He was a bully and a mediocre
sailor. Even his strongarm tactics couldn't land him in better than 5th or
6th place.


What frosts me is when such shenanigans go on at the big events. In a
major Lightning championship I was in (for the record, we did not bring
home any silver from this one), Mr X forced his way into a mark rounding,
at a gate no less, not only hit the mark but it literally went under his
boat's hull, also ramming two other boats in the process and fouling one's
rig... Mr X was DSQ'd by a protest committee and then had his finish
mysteriously reinstated the last day of the series.

Fortunately I was the fleet scorer for both our Snipe and Laser fleets. I
was approached by a parent on one occasion in an effort to get a kid's
finishing position changed in one race in the junior regionals. It would
have made the difference between second and third overall for his kid. When
I rejected his attempt to "reason" with me, I was offered cash. When I
rejected that, I was threatened. A predictable pattern.

..
A few years later, this guy won a big championship, and at the dinner I
asked a few people who were at this foul-up if they remembered when Mr X
sailed over the bouy and they said hell yes, and re-told the story loudly.
Mr X got very red faced but did not say a word. I've been told his kids
refer to that big trophy as "the one Daddy got by sailing over a mark."
Personally I think that's good enough revenge.

I suspect similar stories are played and replayed at yacht clubs throughout
the world. I gave up showing horses many years ago when I discovered that
the politics of that particular activity were no different or worse than
those in most other hobbies or sports. I still race, but I've mellowed
enough to find comfort in the knowledge that sailboat racing just ain't
important enough to get upset about. Larry Ellison might disagree.

Max