http://community-2.webtv.net/tassail.../captureD4.jpg

Talk about having no lateral stability. Look at the keel and note how it is only
about two or three feet in width. It must track like a squirrelly race boat.

Then notice the inefficient end plates that fail to take into account the fact
that having them commence at the leading edge of the rudder is causing more
drag then if they were placed toward the aft side of the keel.

Funny how some people seem to think they can guess better than an engineer
can design.

CN

Ok CN,

I'll play with you for a little bit. By the way' what the hell are you
doing up this late or early in the morning? Having trouble with that
"Tin Can" cabin heater already?

Anyway, I seem to remember a boat with a very similar 'funny looking'
keel was the first boat to end a 150 year reign of American Cup
domination.

Those aren't end plates, Dopey! There Wings. Look at their shape again
and try to figure the action of a Wing Keel.

I'm going to bed now. So, you'll have time to think about the action of
a "Wing Keel"

Also, think about the comparison of the Entry of my boat and the
Bulbous, knuckle shape bow and leading blunt edge of that forward placed
Keel on your Tub, Then we'll talk about helm action.

Good nite Salty ( make believe) I'll read your reply in the AM

Ole Thom

Capt. Neal® wrote:
Funny how some people seem to think they can guess better than an engineer
can design.

Bwahahahahahah

Add that gem to the list of Nealisms. Makes Jax look positively erudite.

Rick

"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message

Then notice the inefficient end plates that fail to take into account the
fact
that having them commence at the leading edge of the rudder is causing
more
drag then if they were placed toward the aft side of the keel.

It's a picture of the keel...... those are wings.

CM

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message ...
Ok CN,

I'll play with you for a little bit. By the way' what the hell are you
doing up this late or early in the morning? Having trouble with that
"Tin Can" cabin heater already?

The cabin heater is working fine. To tell you the truth I was up waiting
for a call from someone even hotter than my famous cabin heater - Lady
Pilot to be exact. Don't tell Moroon though or he might get jealous.


Anyway, I seem to remember a boat with a very similar 'funny looking'
keel was the first boat to end a 150 year reign of American Cup
domination.

On a race boat such a keel is de rigeur but on a pilot house cruising
boat it is out of place. It compares to putting some of those old
Cadillac tail fins on a modern-day Corvette.

Those aren't end plates, Dopey! There Wings. Look at their shape again
and try to figure the action of a Wing Keel.

Wings??? Sorry old chap, but they function as end plates to control
the vortex. Even when they are installed on a 747 they are called end
plates. (or some call them winglets.)


I'm going to bed now. So, you'll have time to think about the action of
a "Wing Keel"

Also, think about the comparison of the Entry of my boat and the
Bulbous, knuckle shape bow and leading blunt edge of that forward placed
Keel on your Tub, Then we'll talk about helm action.

Dopey! Think about what a shark or a porpoise - some of the fastest
animals in the water looks like. It is bulbous and it goes quite fast.


The fiction about slim being better at sea is just that fiction. Ever look
beneath the water on an oceangoing ship. Most likely you will see a
bulbous looking thing. If a sharp entry was so great they would not
bother with the bulb.

Savvy kimosabe?

CN

I think you hit the nail on the head Thom.....

Your Pilot house is well suited for your area. The vessel looks good with it
and it extends your sailing season. Only a limp wristed tropical sailor
without experience of sailing in the colder latitudes and thusly with self
imposed limitations as to where he can venture would ever cast doubt as to
the functionality of a Pilot House on such a fine vessel. Let's face it...
he can't even differentiate between your keel and rudder yet.

I think it smacks of pure jealousy... on Neal's part. I'm certain that Cut
The Mustard would be a fine dinghy for your vessel. :-)

CM

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Hey CN,

I'm up and a Very Good Morning to you and the ASA, from the NW

Thought I'd start the day off with a picture of the Pilothouse in her
Slip. I think she is a beauty but she's mine and that is a slanted view.
Likes get some comments from the group.

Did you have a chance yet to figure out how a "Wing Keel" functions?
I'll give you some time to work out your answer.

In the meantime, I'd like to state that I have as much stability and
less leeway than "Cut the Mustard" due to the depth of "Pneuma's" keel

Also less heel, giving me more effective sail area

Again, Good Morning

Ole Thom




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wings are on birds and airplanes.

On a sailboat keel those appendages are end plates. Just because
some stupid magazine writer calls them wings does not
make it so.

CN


"Overproof" wrote in message news:IMXwd.2822$nN6.143@edtnps84...

"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message

Then notice the inefficient end plates that fail to take into account the
fact
that having them commence at the leading edge of the rudder is causing
more
drag then if they were placed toward the aft side of the keel.

It's a picture of the keel...... those are wings.

CM

CN,

You've given some REALLY Supid reasoning but I guess we can blame the
source.

CN, take your own example; THE SHARK;--- You sound like you never seen
one! Their frontal profile is pointed. POINTED. Its mouth and teeth
aren't in the way

They come to a point, yes, a bulbous point. Look at your typical
submarine, dear sir, is there a point or a nice bulbous shape?
Look at most any jet airplane and note the nose does not come
to a point. Look at the space shuttle. Do you see any points there?

I suppose it's too much to ask that anyone here really understand
hydrodynamics but at least try. To get a fat object like a sailboat
through the water efficiently you've got to consider a couple of
things. One is wetted surface. You can have less wetted surface with
a bulb (a sphere is the shape with minimum surface area vs. volume)
than with some long drawn out point. That is a simple fact.

It follows with a ballast keel that a bulb is the most efficient
shape as far as hydrodynamics and containing the volume necessary
is concerned. You want the weight low because it's ballast. You
want hydrodynamic efficiency - you want a bulb for a cruiser.

Granted, a long, deep skinny keel is best for a racer but they are
not constrained by draft like a cruiser is. Do you own a racer or
a cruiser. Answer that question before you screw up a cruiser
chasing racer dreams.

CN


"Thom Stewart" wrote in message ...
CN,

You've given some REALLY Supid reasoning but I guess we can blame the
source.

CN, take your own example; THE SHARK;--- You sound like you never seen
one! Their frontal profile is pointed. POINTED. Its mouth and teeth
aren't in the way

Take a look at the AM Cup Racers.... do you see a bulbous nose on
any???....NO!

Do birds have really big heads.... no

Does a fine entry provide less friction... Yes!

CM


"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message
...
They come to a point, yes, a bulbous point. Look at your typical
submarine, dear sir, is there a point or a nice bulbous shape?
Look at most any jet airplane and note the nose does not come
to a point. Look at the space shuttle. Do you see any points there?

I suppose it's too much to ask that anyone here really understand
hydrodynamics but at least try. To get a fat object like a sailboat
through the water efficiently you've got to consider a couple of
things. One is wetted surface. You can have less wetted surface with
a bulb (a sphere is the shape with minimum surface area vs. volume)
than with some long drawn out point. That is a simple fact.

It follows with a ballast keel that a bulb is the most efficient
shape as far as hydrodynamics and containing the volume necessary
is concerned. You want the weight low because it's ballast. You
want hydrodynamic efficiency - you want a bulb for a cruiser.

Granted, a long, deep skinny keel is best for a racer but they are
not constrained by draft like a cruiser is. Do you own a racer or
a cruiser. Answer that question before you screw up a cruiser
chasing racer dreams.

CN


"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
CN,

You've given some REALLY Supid reasoning but I guess we can blame the
source.

CN, take your own example; THE SHARK;--- You sound like you never seen
one! Their frontal profile is pointed. POINTED. Its mouth and teeth
aren't in the way