Why didn't you call him (them) on the radio and discuss it the situation?

"gonefishiing" wrote

out for a late night sail last week, which i do a lot of.
western edge of long island sound, ny
on a port tack heading southwest towards the throgs neck bridge.
slack tide.
particulary dark night.
full main and jib set
15 knots wind

keeping a vigilant eye out for ships, i spot a black form against the
lights
of the city in front of me and realize it is a tug and barge and i also
realize (in the absence of visible nav lights) his small profile means he
is
headed right at me and steaming.

i decide to tack the boat around 180 degrees and give him some
room........assuming (correctly) his course has 2 possiblities--he is
going
to continue eastbound in the sound or he is going to turn north towards
eastchester bay to anchor his barge (partial mistake no.1?). he turns
northeast towards the barge anchorage, paralleling my course and i am east
of him and the barge anchorage- out of his way.

towards the east i spot another ship (freighter) steaming westbound for
the
gate. he is north of the lane that most of the commerical ships take for
the
bridge. and a quick visual calculation tells me i can cross his bow
without
problem and also because he needs to turn behind my stern to set his
course
for the bridge (and soon!) (partial mistake no.2?)

they are both aware that i am here-- million candle power lights
illuminating sails had a way of doing that. (my light)

1: the freighter, westbound, is not turning although i have crossed his
bow--only slightly and he'll end up passing beyond me, far too close and
moving fast.
2: the tug/barge decides to steer a circle around the barge anchorage and
end up eastbound again --off my port beam and close enough that i can see
the pilot. he has slowed down significantly at this point as i am now
between both vessels. (on a starboard tack)

3: they both passed "safely" at my stern, to the south of me the freigher
first, the tug next.

this was really too close for comfort, and i had my hands full sailing.
not to negate my responsiblity, i think constrained by draft here is a
relative term, if it even applies. they each had a mile of room to the
south
(behind me) to manuveur and cannot understand why they would choose to
approach so closely, as my actions were clear, my course was appropriate
and
consistent and meant to give each a wide berth

and for whatever it may be worth, i think everyone took the correct
actions
i believe i was the stand on vessel
the freighter was 2nd in pecking order
the tug/barge gave way

what would you have done differently?

gf.

did not ask if they are marked
i know they are marked

is cuban ledge visible?
gf.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
your memory is horse hockey. each is well marked.

From: "gonefishiing"
Date: 8/15/2004 10:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

my memory tells me cuban ledge is only visible at low water
right or wrong?

big tom is rarely visible except at extreme low water


gf.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
you kidding? the size of that thing makes it impossible not to notice.

Even more so than a tug with a barge in tow all lit up at night.

From: "gonefishiing"
Date: 8/15/2004 10:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

have you hit it that often?
gf.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
You don't even have to go there, just look at a chart.

I have been there.

so many times I don't even have to guess where the "Cuban Ledge" is.

Or sailed at night.

"Jeff Morris" wrote

Its pretty clear the jax has never sailed in these waters ...

"JAXAshby" wrote

gf, that is a crock of squat.

gonefishiing wrote:
out for a late night sail last week, which i do a lot of.
western edge of long island sound, ny
on a port tack heading southwest towards the throgs neck bridge.
slack tide.
particulary dark night.
full main and jib set
15 knots wind

keeping a vigilant eye out for ships, i spot a black form against the lights
of the city in front of me and realize it is a tug and barge and i also
realize (in the absence of visible nav lights) his small profile means he is
headed right at me and steaming.

Picking out tug/barge and ship lights against city lights can be a
problem. It is also a problem that many small boaters are not looking
high enough, to see them (they are looking at the horizon or perceived
horizon, whereas the lights of a closer large vessel are above that.)

i decide to tack the boat around 180 degrees and give him some
room........assuming (correctly) his course has 2 possiblities--he is going
to continue eastbound in the sound or he is going to turn north towards
eastchester bay to anchor his barge (partial mistake no.1?). he turns
northeast towards the barge anchorage, paralleling my course and i am east
of him and the barge anchorage- out of his way.

towards the east i spot another ship (freighter) steaming westbound for the
gate. he is north of the lane that most of the commerical ships take for the
bridge. and a quick visual calculation tells me i can cross his bow without
problem and also because he needs to turn behind my stern to set his course
for the bridge (and soon!) (partial mistake no.2?)

they are both aware that i am here-- million candle power lights
illuminating sails had a way of doing that. (my light)

1: the freighter, westbound, is not turning although i have crossed his
bow--only slightly and he'll end up passing beyond me, far too close and
moving fast.
2: the tug/barge decides to steer a circle around the barge anchorage and
end up eastbound again --off my port beam and close enough that i can see
the pilot. he has slowed down significantly at this point as i am now
between both vessels. (on a starboard tack)

3: they both passed "safely" at my stern, to the south of me the freigher
first, the tug next.

this was really too close for comfort, and i had my hands full sailing.
not to negate my responsiblity, i think constrained by draft here is a
relative term, if it even applies. they each had a mile of room to the south
(behind me) to manuveur and cannot understand why they would choose to
approach so closely, as my actions were clear, my course was appropriate and
consistent and meant to give each a wide berth

A "mile of room" is not really all that much room when talking about a
ship or tug/barge combo. Not having a chart of the area and knowing
exactly what and where the ship and tug were going and thinking, it's
hard to second guess what was happening.
I can really fault you on only one item ..... not contacting and
monitoring via VHF.
You will probably work this over in your mind a number of times and come
up with numerous possible solutions. However, what is most important is
that your actions, plus those of the others ended in a safe (if somewhat
close) passing situation.

and for whatever it may be worth, i think everyone took the correct actions
i believe i was the stand on vessel
the freighter was 2nd in pecking order
the tug/barge gave way

G Again, not knowing the area (well, I know it, but it's been awhile
and I'd need to see some charts), you may have been stand on, but the
others may have considered you to be "shall not impede", i.e. one mans
narrow channel, is another mans open sound.

what would you have done differently?

gf.

Other than the radio, hard to say. I especially like the fact you lit
your sails.

otn

Jonathan Ganz wrote:
That's not true on the SF bay. Tugs with barges have stand on.


I would want to read the nav regs for SF bay before I agreed fully with
that.
I believe the bay has a number of "traffic separation schemes" which
fall under SF traffic and thus "shall not impede" becomes important.
However, this is not a clear "stand-on" condition although many treat it
as such and justifiably so.

otn

(c) The term “sailing vessel” means any vessel under sail provided that
propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used;

Seems to me that if it was turned on, you're using it.
--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



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we don't understand?? are you getting a little unruly tonite?????????

No...it's my general personality....I find the whole argument specious...My
first inclination, upon realizing that there were big things out there
trying to get me, would be to reduce sail, turn on the engine for
maneuverability, and to get out of dodge, not to play some kind of "who's on
first" game with freighters and barges....and hubby is immune...after being
married as long as we have been, that's just a yawn....

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



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JAXAshby wrote:
gf, that is a crock of squat.

a.) no barge coming out from under the Throgs Neck is heading *east* at least
until it nears City Island a couple miles to the northeast, and

b.) there is no ships traffic on western LIS except for
veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery occasionally, and

G Considering your only occasional underway time and fact that you
spend most in the galley, it's not surprising you rarely see commercial
traffic there, Doodles

c.) commercial traffic on that part of the Sound is limited to about 7 knots.

Says who?

*if* you missed seeing an approaching barge you were asleep for quite some
time.

BG don't get out on the water too much at night, do you Doodles


otn

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 03:38:10 GMT, something compelled otnmbrd
, to say:



Jonathan Ganz wrote:
That's not true on the SF bay. Tugs with barges have stand on.


I would want to read the nav regs for SF bay before I agreed fully with
that.
I believe the bay has a number of "traffic separation schemes" which
fall under SF traffic and thus "shall not impede" becomes important.
However, this is not a clear "stand-on" condition although many treat it
as such and justifiably so.


F=MA. It's all you really need to know.

JAXAshby wrote:
That's not true on the SF bay. Tugs with barges have stand on.



they do on LIS as well.

Says who?

You fictionalizing again Doodles?