"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
I usually don't make fun of other people's religion,

Somehow I doubt that.

What makes you say that? Have I ever made a disparaging remark about any religion here?

I don't think he has a shrine set up (although it wouldn't surprise me). I
think he just blesses it and sprinkles it with holy water.

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:00:55 GMT, "The Carrolls"
wrote:

You have enough experience. you have done a bit of homework also, you will
do fine. Just remember the guy you buy this boat from most likely wasn't
afraid to use it as is, you may find things you dont like about it, but
don't get cought up in fixing things that are actually ok. When I bought my
boat, it was in Grand haven MI , and I live in Monroe, all the way around.
There were things I worried about and adressed that turned out to be time
and money wasted. Just make sure when you fix or replace something it is
something that you should address not just something you want to, save the
want to untill you need to or have time and money later. IMHO Good luck,
Good sailing Wes Carroll

I think I know what you mean.

It has a alcohol stove that I'd like to swap out for propane, but I
notice that a lot of people are using alcohol stoves with little to no
difficulty. This boat has gate valves at the thru hulls, and I'd like
to swap those out for quarter twist ball valves, but I'm not going to
do a special haul out just for that.

If I can get her surveyed for a couple of hundred bucks, I think I'll
have that done, if for no other reason than to have a list of things
to work on later. It's being sold by a brokerage, and it looks like
they only list reasonably good quality boats.

Steve,

There's nothing wrong with an alcohol stove. It certainly
is much safer than heavier-than-air, explosive propane.

There's nothing wrong with gate valves either provided
they are not the cheap Chinese variety.

S.Simon - currently using a 13-year-old gate valve at
the galley sink drain. It ain't broke so why
replace it. Have replaced the other gate
valves with ball valves over the years when
they broke.

Also using a Homestrand pressure alcohol
stove that I"m very happy with.

http://www.homestead.com/captneal/index.html


"Steve Daniels" wrote in message ...
It has a alcohol stove that I'd like to swap out for propane, but I
notice that a lot of people are using alcohol stoves with little to no
difficulty. This boat has gate valves at the thru hulls, and I'd like
to swap those out for quarter twist ball valves, but I'm not going to
do a special haul out just for that.

If I can get her surveyed for a couple of hundred bucks, I think I'll
have that done, if for no other reason than to have a list of things
to work on later. It's being sold by a brokerage, and it looks like
they only list reasonably good quality boats.

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:11:18 -0400, "Simple Simon"
wrote:

Steve,

There's nothing wrong with an alcohol stove. It certainly
is much safer than heavier-than-air, explosive propane.

It's all about how you use your tools. She's got a Universal Atomic 4
for power, so blowing out the bilges is going to be a more or less
frequent occurrence. I could just as easily run the blower for five
minutes before lighting the stove. That, and topside ventilated
storage of the cylinder with a shutoff valve that is only opened when
the gas is in use, I think you'd be ok. I'd also like to check into a
propane cabin heater (unless there are CO issues, one of the things
I'd have to check out. I'd assume not, or there would be warnings all
over the cooktops and ovens) and barbecue.

There's nothing wrong with gate valves either provided
they are not the cheap Chinese variety.

They've been in service for thirty one years now, so they are probably
ok. I don't think Ericson has a reputation for using cheap parts,
especially in a safety role such as this. But I'm attracted to the
Shut It NOW! features of a ball valve, plus there is a visual cue as
to whether it's shut or not. Makes that final look around before
leaving it tied up at the slip a little easier.

But like I said, I'm not going to install them until I have her hauled
for something else.

I would never, ever buy a boat without a survey. No way, no how. And this boat is 30
years old? What will the brokerage do if the day after you buy it you find the deck is
soggy and has to be rebuilt? Will they smile and refund $5000 to do the job? I think
not! Unless you're getting this dirt cheap, I mean a few thousand dollars or less, you
need a survey. Even if the boat passes with no major problems, it will be worth the
several hundred bucks for the education. And the prioritized worklist it will generate
will save you a fortune in the long run.

And when you pick a surveyor, do not accept the one recommended by the broker. Their
purpose in the process is not to protect you, but to facilitate mortgages and insurance.
Find one that won't mind telling you to walk away if the boat isn't up to snuff.


"Steve Daniels" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:00:55 GMT, "The Carrolls"
wrote:

You have enough experience. you have done a bit of homework also, you will
do fine. Just remember the guy you buy this boat from most likely wasn't
afraid to use it as is, you may find things you dont like about it, but
don't get cought up in fixing things that are actually ok. When I bought my
boat, it was in Grand haven MI , and I live in Monroe, all the way around.
There were things I worried about and adressed that turned out to be time
and money wasted. Just make sure when you fix or replace something it is
something that you should address not just something you want to, save the
want to untill you need to or have time and money later. IMHO Good luck,
Good sailing Wes Carroll

I think I know what you mean.

It has a alcohol stove that I'd like to swap out for propane, but I
notice that a lot of people are using alcohol stoves with little to no
difficulty. This boat has gate valves at the thru hulls, and I'd like
to swap those out for quarter twist ball valves, but I'm not going to
do a special haul out just for that.

If I can get her surveyed for a couple of hundred bucks, I think I'll
have that done, if for no other reason than to have a list of things
to work on later. It's being sold by a brokerage, and it looks like
they only list reasonably good quality boats.

Bologna! One does not need a professional survey on an old
used, and inexpensive boat. Save that for the newer ones that
cost an arm and a leg.

The fact is anyone (even you, Jeff) who has some experience
with boats should know what to look for. How hard is it
to stomp around on deck? How hard is it to look for blisters
on the bottom? How hard is it to apprise the mast and rigging?
How hard is it to survey the sails, anchors and other gear?

Not very!

Do you hire a surveyor when you buy a used car?
I think not. The most anyone does is get a mechanic to look
at the brakes and do a compression check and people are
paying more for cars than for older used boats.

Surveyors are unnecessary on older boats thirty feet and
under - that's the straight skinny.

S. Simon


"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message ...
I would never, ever buy a boat without a survey. No way, no how. And this boat is 30
years old? What will the brokerage do if the day after you buy it you find the deck is
soggy and has to be rebuilt? Will they smile and refund $5000 to do the job? I think
not! Unless you're getting this dirt cheap, I mean a few thousand dollars or less, you
need a survey. Even if the boat passes with no major problems, it will be worth the
several hundred bucks for the education. And the prioritized worklist it will generate
will save you a fortune in the long run.

And when you pick a surveyor, do not accept the one recommended by the broker. Their
purpose in the process is not to protect you, but to facilitate mortgages and insurance.
Find one that won't mind telling you to walk away if the boat isn't up to snuff.


"Steve Daniels" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:00:55 GMT, "The Carrolls"
wrote:

You have enough experience. you have done a bit of homework also, you will
do fine. Just remember the guy you buy this boat from most likely wasn't
afraid to use it as is, you may find things you dont like about it, but
don't get cought up in fixing things that are actually ok. When I bought my
boat, it was in Grand haven MI , and I live in Monroe, all the way around.
There were things I worried about and adressed that turned out to be time
and money wasted. Just make sure when you fix or replace something it is
something that you should address not just something you want to, save the
want to untill you need to or have time and money later. IMHO Good luck,
Good sailing Wes Carroll

I think I know what you mean.

It has a alcohol stove that I'd like to swap out for propane, but I
notice that a lot of people are using alcohol stoves with little to no
difficulty. This boat has gate valves at the thru hulls, and I'd like
to swap those out for quarter twist ball valves, but I'm not going to
do a special haul out just for that.

If I can get her surveyed for a couple of hundred bucks, I think I'll
have that done, if for no other reason than to have a list of things
to work on later. It's being sold by a brokerage, and it looks like
they only list reasonably good quality boats.

Not true at all. Buying a used car for thousands of dollars
without first getting it checked by a reliable mechanic not
associated with the transaction is worth the money. The same
goes for a boat. The surveyor does a more thorough job of
inspecting the boat that the perspective owner could do in the
short time available. In addition, since she would be uninterested
third party, you'll get an honest, no-dream-struck opinion of
the boat. In the process, you'll learn a heck of a lot about the
boat, which assuming it passes muster, will be quite valuable
after the purchase. If it doesn't pass muster, the owner also
benefits, since she will get a detailed list of the problems.

As far as cars go, I considered buying a used car and fortunately
took it to a mechanic friend (I used to work on cars also, so I
know a thing or three about cars). He found structural problems
that were hidden by paint. He found a bent frame that was not
obvious. Saved me thousands just because I bothered to get
a second opinion.

The only reason I didn't get a survey on my Cal 20 before
purchase was because it was basically free. I enjoyed fixing
the problems, I had plenty of time to do it myself, and I learned a
lot along the way.

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
Bologna! One does not need a professional survey on an old
used, and inexpensive boat. Save that for the newer ones that
cost an arm and a leg.

The fact is anyone (even you, Jeff) who has some experience
with boats should know what to look for. How hard is it
to stomp around on deck? How hard is it to look for blisters
on the bottom? How hard is it to apprise the mast and rigging?
How hard is it to survey the sails, anchors and other gear?

Not very!

Do you hire a surveyor when you buy a used car?
I think not. The most anyone does is get a mechanic to look
at the brakes and do a compression check and people are
paying more for cars than for older used boats.

Surveyors are unnecessary on older boats thirty feet and
under - that's the straight skinny.

S. Simon


"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
I would never, ever buy a boat without a survey. No way, no how. And
this boat is 30
years old? What will the brokerage do if the day after you buy it you
find the deck is
soggy and has to be rebuilt? Will they smile and refund $5000 to do the
job? I think
not! Unless you're getting this dirt cheap, I mean a few thousand
dollars or less, you
need a survey. Even if the boat passes with no major problems, it will
be worth the
several hundred bucks for the education. And the prioritized worklist
it will generate
will save you a fortune in the long run.

And when you pick a surveyor, do not accept the one recommended by the
broker. Their
purpose in the process is not to protect you, but to facilitate
mortgages and insurance.
Find one that won't mind telling you to walk away if the boat isn't up
to snuff.


"Steve Daniels" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:00:55 GMT, "The Carrolls"
wrote:

You have enough experience. you have done a bit of homework also, you
will
do fine. Just remember the guy you buy this boat from most likely
wasn't
afraid to use it as is, you may find things you dont like about it,
but
don't get cought up in fixing things that are actually ok. When I
bought my
boat, it was in Grand haven MI , and I live in Monroe, all the way
around.
There were things I worried about and adressed that turned out to be
time
and money wasted. Just make sure when you fix or replace something it
is
something that you should address not just something you want to,
save the
want to untill you need to or have time and money later. IMHO Good
luck,
Good sailing Wes Carroll

I think I know what you mean.

It has a alcohol stove that I'd like to swap out for propane, but I
notice that a lot of people are using alcohol stoves with little to no
difficulty. This boat has gate valves at the thru hulls, and I'd like
to swap those out for quarter twist ball valves, but I'm not going to
do a special haul out just for that.

If I can get her surveyed for a couple of hundred bucks, I think I'll
have that done, if for no other reason than to have a list of things
to work on later. It's being sold by a brokerage, and it looks like
they only list reasonably good quality boats.

I'd go along with holding off till convenient to replace the gate valves
if they are still fine, but at the earliest convenience, replace them.
Gates have a tendency to leak due to a number of reasons, and older ones
can have the gate fall off the stem due to wear.



It has a alcohol stove that I'd like to swap out for propane, but I
notice that a lot of people are using alcohol stoves with little to no
difficulty. This boat has gate valves at the thru hulls, and I'd like
to swap those out for quarter twist ball valves, but I'm not going to
do a special haul out just for that.

If I can get her surveyed for a couple of hundred bucks, I think I'll
have that done, if for no other reason than to have a list of things
to work on later. It's being sold by a brokerage, and it looks like
they only list reasonably good quality boats.

"otnmbrd" wrote in message ink.net...
I'd go along with holding off till convenient to replace the gate valves
if they are still fine, but at the earliest convenience, replace them.
Gates have a tendency to leak due to a number of reasons, and older ones
can have the gate fall off the stem due to wear.


True but they fail safe. When the stem breaks as is often the case the
gate falls and closes the valve. This is the ideal situation for a thru-hull
valve to fail safe. A ball valve will never fail safe.

S.Simon