Nonsense. I would agree if this was a $3000 boat, but the asking price could be as high as
$15-$20K. The OP said he would be offering near asking, and this was a high quality broker - I can
only assume the price is fairly high. It may even be worth the price, but only if there are no
problems.

I've seen good surveyors find nasty water intrusion in the cockpit based on a small unexplained rust
spot away from the leak. I've seen blisters uncovered when they were hidden by fresh bottom paint.

The only time a boat can be bought without a survey is if the price is so low you can literally
throw it away. I can understand, however, why you think this applies to all boats under 30 feet.
It certainly would apply to yours.

--
-jeff

"Simple Simon" wrote in message ...
Bologna! One does not need a professional survey on an old
used, and inexpensive boat. Save that for the newer ones that
cost an arm and a leg.

The fact is anyone (even you, Jeff) who has some experience
with boats should know what to look for. How hard is it
to stomp around on deck? How hard is it to look for blisters
on the bottom? How hard is it to apprise the mast and rigging?
How hard is it to survey the sails, anchors and other gear?

Not very!

Do you hire a surveyor when you buy a used car?
I think not. The most anyone does is get a mechanic to look
at the brakes and do a compression check and people are
paying more for cars than for older used boats.

Surveyors are unnecessary on older boats thirty feet and
under - that's the straight skinny.

S. Simon


"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
I would never, ever buy a boat without a survey. No way, no how. And this boat is 30
years old? What will the brokerage do if the day after you buy it you find the deck is
soggy and has to be rebuilt? Will they smile and refund $5000 to do the job? I think
not! Unless you're getting this dirt cheap, I mean a few thousand dollars or less, you
need a survey. Even if the boat passes with no major problems, it will be worth the
several hundred bucks for the education. And the prioritized worklist it will generate
will save you a fortune in the long run.

And when you pick a surveyor, do not accept the one recommended by the broker. Their
purpose in the process is not to protect you, but to facilitate mortgages and insurance.
Find one that won't mind telling you to walk away if the boat isn't up to snuff.


"Steve Daniels" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:00:55 GMT, "The Carrolls"
wrote:

You have enough experience. you have done a bit of homework also, you will
do fine. Just remember the guy you buy this boat from most likely wasn't
afraid to use it as is, you may find things you dont like about it, but
don't get cought up in fixing things that are actually ok. When I bought my
boat, it was in Grand haven MI , and I live in Monroe, all the way around.
There were things I worried about and adressed that turned out to be time
and money wasted. Just make sure when you fix or replace something it is
something that you should address not just something you want to, save the
want to untill you need to or have time and money later. IMHO Good luck,
Good sailing Wes Carroll

I think I know what you mean.

It has a alcohol stove that I'd like to swap out for propane, but I
notice that a lot of people are using alcohol stoves with little to no
difficulty. This boat has gate valves at the thru hulls, and I'd like
to swap those out for quarter twist ball valves, but I'm not going to
do a special haul out just for that.

If I can get her surveyed for a couple of hundred bucks, I think I'll
have that done, if for no other reason than to have a list of things
to work on later. It's being sold by a brokerage, and it looks like
they only list reasonably good quality boats.

Not always a good thing, if it happens to be your cooling water for your
engine, or in the case of a fuel line, and it's not necessarily an easy fix.

otn

Simple Simon wrote:
"otnmbrd" wrote in message ink.net...

I'd go along with holding off till convenient to replace the gate valves
if they are still fine, but at the earliest convenience, replace them.
Gates have a tendency to leak due to a number of reasons, and older ones
can have the gate fall off the stem due to wear.



True but they fail safe. When the stem breaks as is often the case the
gate falls and closes the valve. This is the ideal situation for a thru-hull
valve to fail safe. A ball valve will never fail safe.

S.Simon

Can ytoui passage plan and act as skipper. what quilifications do you hold?

Cheers MC

Steve Daniels, Seek of Spam wrote:
On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:42:58 +1300, something compelled
The_navigator? , to say:


Can you sail?


Sure.

Try to remember this is a SAILBOAT newsgroup.

I have no thru-hulls for engine cooling water in my
hull. My major concern is to allow water OUT
when it's convenient and NOT to let water in
when it's not.

S.Simon

"otnmbrd" wrote in message nk.net...
Not always a good thing, if it happens to be your cooling water for your
engine, or in the case of a fuel line, and it's not necessarily an easy fix.

otn

Simple Simon wrote:
"otnmbrd" wrote in message ink.net...

I'd go along with holding off till convenient to replace the gate valves
if they are still fine, but at the earliest convenience, replace them.
Gates have a tendency to leak due to a number of reasons, and older ones
can have the gate fall off the stem due to wear.



True but they fail safe. When the stem breaks as is often the case the
gate falls and closes the valve. This is the ideal situation for a thru-hull
valve to fail safe. A ball valve will never fail safe.

S.Simon

"Simple Simon" wrote in message

| I have no thru-hulls for engine cooling water in my
| hull. My major concern is to allow water OUT
| when it's convenient and NOT to let water in
| when it's not.

putt... putt... putt
putt... putt... putt

putt... putt... putt

putt... putt... putt

putt... putt... putt

putt... putt... putt

cough... sputter

Sounds like an outboard....

CM

He visits it after every meal.... six times a day!

CM

"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
| I usually don't make fun of other people's religion, but this does seem a
bit bizarre to
| me. What kind of worship services do you attend? Do you have a special
shrine set aside
| for your personal devotions? What in particular attracted you to this
rather arcane
| veneration?
|
| "Bobsprit" wrote:
|
| Holy crap.
|
| RB
|
|

Or a homosexual bronchitic with flatulence.

Cheers MC

Capt. Mooron wrote:

"Simple Simon" wrote in message

| I have no thru-hulls for engine cooling water in my
| hull. My major concern is to allow water OUT
| when it's convenient and NOT to let water in
| when it's not.

putt... putt... putt
putt... putt... putt

putt... putt... putt

putt... putt... putt

putt... putt... putt

putt... putt... putt

cough... sputter

Sounds like an outboard....

CM

As long as Neal keeps him strapped to the back of his boat.... ;-)

CM

"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...
| Or a homosexual bronchitic with flatulence.
|
| Cheers MC
|
| Capt. Mooron wrote:
|
| "Simple Simon" wrote in message
|
| | I have no thru-hulls for engine cooling water in my
| | hull. My major concern is to allow water OUT
| | when it's convenient and NOT to let water in
| | when it's not.
|
| putt... putt... putt
| putt... putt... putt
|
| putt... putt... putt
|
| putt... putt... putt
|
| putt... putt... putt
|
| putt... putt... putt
|
| cough... sputter
|
| Sounds like an outboard....
|
| CM
|
|
|

You show a typical lack of common sense. Simply because YOU don't,
doesn't mean EVERYONE doesn't, in this NG.

otn

Simple Simon wrote:

Try to remember this is a SAILBOAT newsgroup.

I have no thru-hulls for engine cooling water in my
hull. My major concern is to allow water OUT
when it's convenient and NOT to let water in
when it's not.

S.Simon

"otnmbrd" wrote in message nk.net...

Not always a good thing, if it happens to be your cooling water for your
engine, or in the case of a fuel line, and it's not necessarily an easy fix.

otn

Simple Simon wrote:

"otnmbrd" wrote in message ink.net...


I'd go along with holding off till convenient to replace the gate valves
if they are still fine, but at the earliest convenience, replace them.
Gates have a tendency to leak due to a number of reasons, and older ones
can have the gate fall off the stem due to wear.



True but they fail safe. When the stem breaks as is often the case the
gate falls and closes the valve. This is the ideal situation for a thru-hull
valve to fail safe. A ball valve will never fail safe.

S.Simon

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:46:48 -0400, something compelled "Simple
Simon" , to say:

Bologna! One does not need a professional survey on an old
used, and inexpensive boat. Save that for the newer ones that
cost an arm and a leg.

I couldn't wait for the weekend, so I took a few hours off and
drove in to see her. My impression is that she's basically
solid, but hasn't had any attention paid to her in quite some
time.

It looks like most of the running rigging is sun damaged and will
have to be replaced. There is some ugly goop around all of the
lifeline stanchions, and I'll probably remove all of them and bed
them properly. The tiller is delimitated, but looks good enough
to get home with. I have a friend who likes to work with wood,
and I think we can make a new tiller using the old one for a
pattern.

The engine is clean, and has clean oil in it. The running lights
all work, and the VHF makes static noises when you turn it on.
The blower works.

I offered nine grand subject to survey. It's sat long enough
that I want an objective opinion, and they are going to haul her
and power wash the bottom, which I would want done anyway.
Depending on how that goes, I'll decide if I want the bottom
painted at that time or not. She'll mostly be in fresh water, so
I don't know that bottom paint is all that necessary.

The feeling is that what she really needs is a few weekends with
some fine sandpaper and teak oil, and maybe some paint for the
decks.