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#11
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Church & State...
All good and true points Taddy, as usual.
As for the "how about giving us a hand" reference, I was being purposefully ambiguous, hoping my good friend CM will continue to enjoy the laughter, but will at least consider simultaneously applauding for the terrified performer. -- Scout "Knowing the storm is coming only makes me more nervous." "Flying Tadpole" wrote in message ... Dear Scout, THe flailing on the highwire is called "re-invention", a continuing adventure that most outsiders fail to understand. And it's that very dynamic balancing attempt that really makes the US "the last, best hope for mankind". And it's no use asking for a helping hand--almost no-one outside the US understands the concept of re-invention, and the "hope" side of it they view as revolting! Now watch the piranhas boil in my WC bowl... Flying Tadpole Scout wrote: "Capt. Mooron" wrote It's pathetic you have even one state like that let alone a bible belt.... isn't the separation of church & state part of your basic governmental basis? Yes it is. The problem is that line is not always easy for some to see. The roots of that separation clause are based not so much on the concept that god and government are mutually exclusive components of a successful society, but on the history of religious persecution that many newbie-Americans had endured before coming here. The same world laughing at us, in large part, is responsible for many of our citizens being here. God I love irony. Our founding fathers (your Uncles) believed in the importance of spiritual responsibility. And why wouldn't they?; if the ostensible benefit of religion is the promotion of moral behavior, a government would have to be suicidal to denounce God. It would be counter-productive on just about every level. But try balancing that with the equally important concept that no one has the right to say who God is, what s/he/it wants of us (specifically), what rules it should impose on society at large, how it should influence national issues, spending, etc. etc. etc., and it's no wonder that we, as a nation, appear to be constantly imbalanced and unstable, always ready to fall from the high wire. I'm sure it looks funny from the spectator's perspective, but that's only because they haven't reached the correct conclusions about what will happen if that flailing guy falls. I believe the majority of the world understands our predicament. Though they laugh, they realize that our fall would start a mosh-pit on a global scale. The laughers will run, of course, but **** would be flying everywhere (remember when they blew up that whale on the beach?). I don't consider us to be a melting pot as much as I do a high-pressure boiler. We are a smaller version of the whole planet, with no oceans between us to keep us from fighting. We have it all, people from just about every culture, religion, ethnicity, tribe, neighborhood, and on and on, with all that that entails, and we are trying to live together in peace and harmony. It's gonna take a while to work out the bugs. I'm optimistic, but I think it will take more than a few hundred years to get it together. If we can't do it, it won't be any prettier for the rest of the world. How about giving us a hand? -- Scout "Knowing the storm is coming only makes me more nervous." -- Flying Tadpole ------------------------- Learn what lies below the waves of cyberspace! http://www.internetopera.netfirms.com |
#12
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Church & State...
Hey, any country that can simultaneously produce and keep the
architecture of Vermont, Manhattan and southern California can't be _all_ wrong! I just wish US schools would teach their kids english AND english literature ---blunt hook warning FT -- Flying Tadpole ------------------------- Learn what lies below the waves of cyberspace! http://www.internetopera.netfirms.com Scout wrote: All good and true points Taddy, as usual. As for the "how about giving us a hand" reference, I was being purposefully ambiguous, hoping my good friend CM will continue to enjoy the laughter, but will at least consider simultaneously applauding for the terrified performer. |
#13
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Church & State...
haha, I'm working on it - Yeoouchhhhhh! - now my lip hurts!
-- Scout "Knowing the storm is coming only makes me more nervous." "Flying Tadpole" wrote ---blunt hook warning |
#14
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Church & State...
Mooron,
That's not my Quote, it is the statement of ole Albert himself that you are calling an idiot. I can see that you are acting completely without limits, which does leave me with little choice for a conclusion. I do believe I'll choice Albert Einstien, rather than a "Mooron" :^) Sorry Ole Thom |
#15
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Church & State...
But why? It was, after all, a blunt hook. Did you bite your lip
while worrying about it? Scout wrote: haha, I'm working on it - Yeoouchhhhhh! - now my lip hurts! -- Scout "Knowing the storm is coming only makes me more nervous." "Flying Tadpole" wrote ---blunt hook warning -- Flying Tadpole ------------------------- Learn what lies below the waves of cyberspace! http://www.internetopera.netfirms.com |
#16
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Church & State...
Impossible! Katy made me realize I have no teef!
-- Scout "Knowing the storm is coming only makes me more nervous." "Flying Tadpole" wrote Did you bite your lip while worrying about it? |
#17
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Church & State...
What amazes me is that for some reason you believe the USA is the only
"melting pot" on the planet. I beg to differ as Canada is as mixed an ethnic pool as the USA. We have all the religions and a diverse population. You don't see the type of heat generated here as you do with our Southern neighbours. Religious beliefs are tolerated and those who practice it are free to do so to the degree they see fit... within the context of the law. It seems to me that there is a battle going on in the USA to maintain Christian beliefs, English as the language and blind patriotism as the guiding force to the exclusion of all else. Your basis for the USA melting pot theory in comparison to the Europeans just doesn't hold water. The immigration of people into Europe from all over the globe has been and is continuing to change the entire area. It has been doing so for a while. Maybe due to the diverse languages and cultures that lived in close proximity for centuries has provided for easier adaptation and acceptance of other cultures and religions. My point was that the superiority complex exhibited by many Americans does not hold up in the light of day... and much of their supposed generosity has a steep price tag. CM "Flying Tadpole" wrote in message ... | Dear Scout, | | THe flailing on the highwire is called "re-invention", a | continuing adventure that most outsiders fail to understand. And | it's that very dynamic balancing attempt that really makes the US | "the last, best hope for mankind". And it's no use asking for a | helping hand--almost no-one outside the US understands the | concept of re-invention, and the "hope" side of it they view as | revolting! | | Now watch the piranhas boil in my WC bowl... | | Flying Tadpole | | Scout wrote: | | "Capt. Mooron" wrote | It's pathetic you have even one state like that let alone a bible belt.... | isn't the separation of church & state part of your basic governmental | basis? | | Yes it is. The problem is that line is not always easy for some to see. The | roots of that separation clause are based not so much on the concept that | god and government are mutually exclusive components of a successful | society, but on the history of religious persecution that many | newbie-Americans had endured before coming here. The same world laughing at | us, in large part, is responsible for many of our citizens being here. God | I love irony. | Our founding fathers (your Uncles) believed in the importance of spiritual | responsibility. And why wouldn't they?; if the ostensible benefit of | religion is the promotion of moral behavior, a government would have to be | suicidal to denounce God. It would be counter-productive on just about every | level. But try balancing that with the equally important concept that no one | has the right to say who God is, what s/he/it wants of us (specifically), | what rules it should impose on society at large, how it should influence | national issues, spending, etc. etc. etc., and it's no wonder that we, as a | nation, appear to be constantly imbalanced and unstable, always ready to | fall from the high wire. I'm sure it looks funny from the spectator's | perspective, but that's only because they haven't reached the correct | conclusions about what will happen if that flailing guy falls. I believe the | majority of the world understands our predicament. Though they laugh, they | realize that our fall would start a mosh-pit on a global scale. The laughers | will run, of course, but **** would be flying everywhere (remember when they | blew up that whale on the beach?). | I don't consider us to be a melting pot as much as I do a high-pressure | boiler. We are a smaller version of the whole planet, with no oceans between | us to keep us from fighting. We have it all, people from just about every | culture, religion, ethnicity, tribe, neighborhood, and on and on, with all | that that entails, and we are trying to live together in peace and harmony. | It's gonna take a while to work out the bugs. I'm optimistic, but I think it | will take more than a few hundred years to get it together. If we can't do | it, it won't be any prettier for the rest of the world. How about giving us | a hand? | -- | Scout | "Knowing the storm is coming only makes me more nervous." | | -- | Flying Tadpole | | ------------------------- | Learn what lies below the waves of cyberspace! | http://www.internetopera.netfirms.com |
#18
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Church & State...
Scout,
Your "High wire act" isn't always easy to understand but it isn't new. The Jews called it; "Fiddler on the Roof" others call it, "Fork in the road of Life" You are correct! There must be "Balance" I wish I knew a good solid answer sometimes but then I do realize that things do change and right and wrong is a dynamic situation and never, ever a final solution. A Sailor should know that better than most people. To get the best sailing takes constant trimming. You can sail with bad trim and that is your business but it is best to get the best trim without busting your ass in the attempt. Isn't that pretty much like LIFE? And that's enough of that! Quarter after eight in the morning and I got a new main to teach me my lessons for today. A thermos of coffee, my dog and I are gone! Ole Thom |
#19
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Church & State...
"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message ...
They claimed 78% of the state was opposed to moving a Christian religious monument.... that in no way indicates a minority. 81% of Americans said it should stay. Can't you see how this is viewed around the world? ... and it is being viewed I assure you. In Canada we don't seem to have the religious zealots in the numbers you have in the USA. We do not have all the draft dogers and cowards Canaduh has, So whats your point? Weather you claim that it is representative or not... your own media is doing more to damage your image than you seem to understand. Other countries will look at this and see little difference between the Christian Fanatics and the Muslim Fanatics. How many backwoods Alabama Fanatics are strapping on bombs and blowing themselfs up? Just because your from Canaduh and to dumb to see the difference dont mean the rest of the world is so stupid. CA CM "katysails" wrote in message ... Mooron, Those people are hardly representative of the religious people of the USA. They, also, are fanatics in their own way. The census figures for religions in 1989 we Religions: Protestant 56%, Roman Catholic 28%, Jewish 2%, other 4%, none 10% Protestant incorporates many different religions, some "catholic" in their viewpoints (Episcopalian, Lutheran, etc) and then there are the Calvinists (Presbyterians, Reformed, etc.), and then you have the Baptists and Methodists and Congregationalists, which are all pretty mainstream. And then you have the fundamentalists. Isn't it funny, that whenever you see the word fundamentalist, you can almost always also use the word fanatic? These people are a small percentage of the religious community, but they shout loud, shake fist harder, and bully their way through to make their point, which is unassailable (according to their tenants). There are more Catholics in the USA then any one other religion. Did you see them out there sitting on the stone? They didn't. And neither did most of the Protestants. Stop making over generalizations about loudmouthed boors that try to foist their ideas and their holy righteousness on everyone else in the name of God, democracy, and union. Religion really has nothing to do with this issue at all. These people haven't yet realized that if you cannot keep the law un your heart, you cannot keep the law in your life. |
#20
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Church & State...
What amazes me is that for some reason you believe the USA is the only
"melting pot" on the planet. Anyone with any ability to observe the world around them can see the USA is no longer a melting pot. People that come to the USA these days no longer want to "melt in" They want their own highway signs because they are too lazy to learn the language. In some US towns close to the border Hispanics who have managed to get into office have changed the "official" language in the local schools to Spanish. Tell me that's "melting in" S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" Trains are a winter sport |
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