On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 11:26:34 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

population of this country. Any statistics professor could help you with
that, although you'd probably get upset and call him a fag.

Provide yours..then Ill refute with mine.

Double dog dare you.

Gunner


First of all, someone here already provided the stats which refute your
silly theory. There's no point in my repeating it. I *will* do something for
you, though. Tell me what town & state you live in, and give me you phone
number. I'll contact the nearest high school or college, find a statistics
teacher, and have that person get in touch with you. If you can shut the
phuque up long enough to listen to them, you'll learn something.

Ah..no. They provided Some cites from Some locations

I strongly suggest you review exactly what I claimed.

Gunner

Rule #35
"That which does not kill you,
has made a huge tactical error"

On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 00:41:49 -0400, "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick"
wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 14:31:30 -0500, "Paul K. Dickman"
wrote:

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/03cius.htm
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05646r.pdf
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/welcome.html

Paul K. Dickman

Check the stats for California.

But thanks for the nice post.

Now getting back to California again....

Oh, -HELL- no.

You didn't say -squat- about "California" in your bigoted rant.

Really? Nor did I say anything about any other part of the country
either, you marxist spittoon.

You taunted Paul to produce the numbers, and he Pro-Pimp Bitchslapped you.

Right. oh **** yes

Don't be trying to switch the context now that you're in the hole.

Which context would that be? I said our prisons. **** dude..why didnt
you provide cites for britian, since there must be some brits reading
this? Yall rise to the bait like a school of minnows.

http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_...gal_alien.html

http://www.urban.org/publications/410366.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal..._United_States



The authoritative source on crime and arrests is the FBI’s “Crime in
the United States” (CIUS).
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/

In 2005, there were 14,094,186 arrests in all jurisdictions; 603,000
of those were for violent crime. So, 4.3% of arrests were for violent
crime, and about 96% for property crime, stock fraud, etc.

GAO reported its study of illegal alien prisoners and the offenses for
which they were arrested. Among a sample of illegal alien prisoners,
12% had been arrested for violent crimes.
http://www.gao.gov/htext/d05646r.html

There are 2,079,000 prisoners (fed, state, local), and 270,000 of
those are illegal aliens.

Conclusions:
* Whether there are 8 million illegals, or 9 or 10 million (we don’t
know) among our 300 million US population, illegals are less than 3.4%
of residents.
* Yet, they are 13% of prisoners (270K / 2,079K), and 36% of those
arrested and incarcerated for violent crimes (4.3% of 2,079K = 89.4K.
12% of 270K = 32.4K. 32.4 / 89.4 = 36%)
* 88% of illegal alien criminals are not violent criminals, BUT
illegal alien CRIMINALS are three times as likely to commit violent
crime as criminals who are NOT illegal aliens (i.e. either natives,
naturalized, or arrived here legally): 12% vs. 4.3%.

What does that mean in the GENERAL population, not just the criminal
underworld? It’s BAD.

In a representative sample of 10,000 US residents, there would be:
333 illegal aliens, of those
9 are jailed, and of those
1 (1.1) was arrested for violent crime. One violent criminal per 309
illegal aliens.

Among the sample’s 9,667 non-aliens, there would be:
60 jailed, and of those
3 (2.6) were arrested for violent crime. One violent criminal per
3,729 non-aliens.

So the illegal alien GENERAL population has a propensity for violent
crime 12 times that of the remainder of the US population. (3,729 /
309 = 12.1)


Rule #35
"That which does not kill you,
has made a huge tactical error"

"Gunner" wrote in message
...


The authoritative source on crime and arrests is the FBI's "Crime in
the United States" (CIUS).
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/

In 2005, there were 14,094,186 arrests in all jurisdictions; 603,000
of those were for violent crime. So, 4.3% of arrests were for violent
crime, and about 96% for property crime, stock fraud, etc.

GAO reported its study of illegal alien prisoners and the offenses for
which they were arrested. Among a sample of illegal alien prisoners,
12% had been arrested for violent crimes.
http://www.gao.gov/htext/d05646r.html

There are 2,079,000 prisoners (fed, state, local), and 270,000 of
those are illegal aliens.

Conclusions:
* Whether there are 8 million illegals, or 9 or 10 million (we don't
know) among our 300 million US population, illegals are less than 3.4%
of residents.
* Yet, they are 13% of prisoners (270K / 2,079K), and 36% of those
arrested and incarcerated for violent crimes (4.3% of 2,079K = 89.4K.
12% of 270K = 32.4K. 32.4 / 89.4 = 36%)
* 88% of illegal alien criminals are not violent criminals, BUT
illegal alien CRIMINALS are three times as likely to commit violent
crime as criminals who are NOT illegal aliens (i.e. either natives,
naturalized, or arrived here legally): 12% vs. 4.3%.

What does that mean in the GENERAL population, not just the criminal
underworld? It's BAD.

In a representative sample of 10,000 US residents, there would be:
333 illegal aliens, of those
9 are jailed, and of those
1 (1.1) was arrested for violent crime. One violent criminal per 309
illegal aliens.

Among the sample's 9,667 non-aliens, there would be:
60 jailed, and of those
3 (2.6) were arrested for violent crime. One violent criminal per
3,729 non-aliens.

So the illegal alien GENERAL population has a propensity for violent
crime 12 times that of the remainder of the US population. (3,729 /
309 = 12.1)



Two things:

1) My toaster failed to kill me for the 8 billionth time. Has it made a
tactical error?


2) Get me some stats showing other populations in THIS country which are
overrepresented in the prisons.

Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 00:22:15 -0400, "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick"
wrote:


You'll need proof, of course, that they're your e-mails.

They'll all have to be signed Gunner Asch.


Nope..they all have to originate from or
several others with spam protection built in

And I dont need to provide anything. You mean dick in the grand scheme
of things and are simply a bit of snot flicked on the wall, that I
note in disgust in passing

So you can't prove ****, other than the ability to make sophomoric
insults.

Got it.

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 00:22:15 -0400, "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick"
wrote:


You'll need proof, of course, that they're your e-mails.

They'll all have to be signed Gunner Asch.


Nope..they all have to originate from or
several others with spam protection built in

And I dont need to provide anything. You mean dick in the grand scheme
of things and are simply a bit of snot flicked on the wall, that I
note in disgust in passing

Snicker

Gunner

Are you employed at the moment? Is your job currently threatened by the
presence of cheaper workers?

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 00:22:15 -0400, "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick"
wrote:


You'll need proof, of course, that they're your e-mails.

They'll all have to be signed Gunner Asch.


Nope..they all have to originate from or
several others with spam protection built in

And I dont need to provide anything. You mean dick in the grand scheme
of things and are simply a bit of snot flicked on the wall, that I
note in disgust in passing

Snicker

Gunner

Are you employed at the moment? Is your job currently threatened by the
presence of cheaper workers?

It's obvious that his job would be threatened by cheap workers even if he
was employed.

"Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick" wrote in
message ...
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 00:22:15 -0400, "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick"
wrote:


You'll need proof, of course, that they're your e-mails.

They'll all have to be signed Gunner Asch.


Nope..they all have to originate from or
several others with spam protection built in

And I dont need to provide anything. You mean dick in the grand scheme
of things and are simply a bit of snot flicked on the wall, that I
note in disgust in passing

Snicker

Gunner

Are you employed at the moment? Is your job currently threatened by the
presence of cheaper workers?

It's obvious that his job would be threatened by cheap workers even if he
was employed.


Here's what's NOT obvious to him: The financial structure of many American
manufacturers has been completely reshaped around the idea of having goods
made overseas where labor is cheaper. This trend probably won't be reversed
unless we go to war with China, or when machinery is invented which can make
things even cheaper at plants in this country. In other words, the system is
here to stay.

The other factor which pushes this trend is our price expectations. I just
emailed Lands End to check my memory, but if I recall the last time I bought
American made dress shirts from them, they cost $25-$30, maybe more. That
was at least 10 years ago. I wonder what they'd cost now if they were still
made here. I would've paid more because I tend to take good care of them,
but somehow, they (and LL Bean, Van Heusen and everyone else) got the idea
that it was better to have them made overseas. But, I may not be the typical
buyer.

This relates to illegal workers because we are also accustomed to certain
price levels for goods and services created here. I've paid between 99 cents
and $1.79 per pound for Romaine or green leaf lettuce over the past couple
of years, depending on season. I wonder how Gunner would react if lettuce
suddenly cost $4.00 per pound because the harvesting had to be done by
citizens who expected quite a bit more than minimum wage for the hard work.

I suspect Gunner has not spent any time in a restaurant kitchen, either. In
his book about the restaurant business, Anthony Bourdain commented that if
you can't speak a little Spanish, and get along well with foreigners, you
can kiss your restaurant goodbye. Foreigners have been the backbone of
restaurant kitchens for much longer than their immigration status has been a
political football.

Assuming you could replace many workers with high school kids (which you
can't, because they don't want these jobs), and your $15.00 entree becomes
much more costly. All the produce that cannot be harvested by machines will
become luxury items, like lobster. Gunner has no solution for this.

On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 10:57:14 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .


The authoritative source on crime and arrests is the FBI's "Crime in
the United States" (CIUS).
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/

In 2005, there were 14,094,186 arrests in all jurisdictions; 603,000
of those were for violent crime. So, 4.3% of arrests were for violent
crime, and about 96% for property crime, stock fraud, etc.

GAO reported its study of illegal alien prisoners and the offenses for
which they were arrested. Among a sample of illegal alien prisoners,
12% had been arrested for violent crimes.
http://www.gao.gov/htext/d05646r.html

There are 2,079,000 prisoners (fed, state, local), and 270,000 of
those are illegal aliens.

Conclusions:
* Whether there are 8 million illegals, or 9 or 10 million (we don't
know) among our 300 million US population, illegals are less than 3.4%
of residents.
* Yet, they are 13% of prisoners (270K / 2,079K), and 36% of those
arrested and incarcerated for violent crimes (4.3% of 2,079K = 89.4K.
12% of 270K = 32.4K. 32.4 / 89.4 = 36%)
* 88% of illegal alien criminals are not violent criminals, BUT
illegal alien CRIMINALS are three times as likely to commit violent
crime as criminals who are NOT illegal aliens (i.e. either natives,
naturalized, or arrived here legally): 12% vs. 4.3%.

What does that mean in the GENERAL population, not just the criminal
underworld? It's BAD.

In a representative sample of 10,000 US residents, there would be:
333 illegal aliens, of those
9 are jailed, and of those
1 (1.1) was arrested for violent crime. One violent criminal per 309
illegal aliens.

Among the sample's 9,667 non-aliens, there would be:
60 jailed, and of those
3 (2.6) were arrested for violent crime. One violent criminal per
3,729 non-aliens.

So the illegal alien GENERAL population has a propensity for violent
crime 12 times that of the remainder of the US population. (3,729 /
309 = 12.1)



Two things:

1) My toaster failed to kill me for the 8 billionth time. Has it made a
tactical error?


2) Get me some stats showing other populations in THIS country which are
overrepresented in the prisons.


http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm


Rule #35
"That which does not kill you,
has made a huge tactical error"

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 10:57:14 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
. ..


The authoritative source on crime and arrests is the FBI's "Crime in
the United States" (CIUS).
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/

In 2005, there were 14,094,186 arrests in all jurisdictions; 603,000
of those were for violent crime. So, 4.3% of arrests were for violent
crime, and about 96% for property crime, stock fraud, etc.

GAO reported its study of illegal alien prisoners and the offenses for
which they were arrested. Among a sample of illegal alien prisoners,
12% had been arrested for violent crimes.
http://www.gao.gov/htext/d05646r.html

There are 2,079,000 prisoners (fed, state, local), and 270,000 of
those are illegal aliens.

Conclusions:
* Whether there are 8 million illegals, or 9 or 10 million (we don't
know) among our 300 million US population, illegals are less than 3.4%
of residents.
* Yet, they are 13% of prisoners (270K / 2,079K), and 36% of those
arrested and incarcerated for violent crimes (4.3% of 2,079K = 89.4K.
12% of 270K = 32.4K. 32.4 / 89.4 = 36%)
* 88% of illegal alien criminals are not violent criminals, BUT
illegal alien CRIMINALS are three times as likely to commit violent
crime as criminals who are NOT illegal aliens (i.e. either natives,
naturalized, or arrived here legally): 12% vs. 4.3%.

What does that mean in the GENERAL population, not just the criminal
underworld? It's BAD.

In a representative sample of 10,000 US residents, there would be:
333 illegal aliens, of those
9 are jailed, and of those
1 (1.1) was arrested for violent crime. One violent criminal per 309
illegal aliens.

Among the sample's 9,667 non-aliens, there would be:
60 jailed, and of those
3 (2.6) were arrested for violent crime. One violent criminal per
3,729 non-aliens.

So the illegal alien GENERAL population has a propensity for violent
crime 12 times that of the remainder of the US population. (3,729 /
309 = 12.1)



Two things:

1) My toaster failed to kill me for the 8 billionth time. Has it made a
tactical error?


2) Get me some stats showing other populations in THIS country which are
overrepresented in the prisons.


http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm

Interesting stats. What do they mean to you?

On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 13:13:20 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 00:22:15 -0400, "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick"
wrote:


You'll need proof, of course, that they're your e-mails.

They'll all have to be signed Gunner Asch.


Nope..they all have to originate from or
several others with spam protection built in

And I dont need to provide anything. You mean dick in the grand scheme
of things and are simply a bit of snot flicked on the wall, that I
note in disgust in passing

Snicker

Gunner

Are you employed at the moment? Is your job currently threatened by the
presence of cheaper workers?

Im self employed, and in my field..there are few "cheaper" workers.

On the other hand..I work with hispanic workers every day, and by and
large I like them very much. Most are very hard working, respectable,
and generally very good people. Es verdad.

Im an independant machine tool repair guy, serviceing machine shops
and manufacturing industry in So. Cal.

So Im working with hispanics daily, and as I said above..I like them.
I eat with them, work with them, and date the occasional hispanic
lady.

But that doesnt change the fact that illegals have much higher crime
rates than do legals and citizens (with the exception of blacks).

The reasons are myriad..but first and foremost..most
illegals..particularly hispanics who come to Unitos Estadas..are from
the very bottom of the various hispanic nations social and economic
classes. Poorly educated, many times on the run from their own
countries justice system. Prone to violence, particularly when
boracho...bringing their own cultureal mores with them. Mexico for
example..has a total ban on firearms..yet has one of the highest rape
and homicide rates in the world. Its a cultural thing. Machismo first
and foremost. They come to America, are qualified for only the meanest
of labor jobs, but can make, what is to them.damned fine money
(Average wage in Mexico for example..is $5/day..other countries even
lower). Many were affiliated with family or criminal groups in their
own countries..such as MS-13, and join the American branches when they
arrive, providing them some security in a strange new country.

The ability to blend into the population is great, they have easy
access to changes of identity and the "underground" is huge and wide
spread. When they commit a crime, they easily evade law enforcement by
simply moving on, or by getting a new ID. Or simply going back across
the border until the heat dies down. Movement across the border is
easy, once they have friends and family in the US, and as I
said..changes of identity easy. I can get a new set of ID, right down
to the pocket lint, for at most $150, at any swap meet or public park,
here in So. Cal. So the opportunity for those of criminal bent to get
away with it is very easy.

Until very recently..hispanics are listed as "caucasian" in the crime
stats..so their actual effect on the crime rates has been harder to
define, but the FBI (Ive posted the links) and the DOJ have been
breaking it down and yes..Illegals make up a large portion of the
criminals who commit acts of violence.

The city and county of Los Angeles for example, report that between 28
and 33% of their jail and prison populations are illegals. Few are
asian or "other" nationalities. Its the culture, unfortunately, as is
the black population, which makes up about 19% of our citizens..but
make up about 48% of our prison populations (nation wide)..another
group that is unfortunately way too over represented in the penal
system.

Its NOT the race..but the cultures they come from, and the attitudes
and mind sets they carry as a result, plus the ease with which they
move inside the US..and sadly..the opportunities to commit crimes are
myriad..as is the low likely hood of being caught the
first/second/third time they commit one.

So the social costs, just in crime alone, not counting the entitlement
costs, of illegals in the US, is a burden that every one has to
bear..and its a huge one.

Low wages? Indeed. Illegals harm both legal aliens and illegal aliens
by providing a low skilled labor force desperate to earn any amount of
money and bringing the wages down for all. In fact..the group most
hurt by illegals, are blacks. Historically, blacks have filled most of
the low skill, bottom tier labor force and they have been edged out by
a group who is willing to perform the same jobs for half of the
traditional wages. This can be seen in ag, construction, service
industry and so forth.

Illegals really dont directly hurt the middle class, except in crime,
increased taxes to cover their social and penal costs, and in many
cases, lowered property values. But those costs alone are
exceptionally high in many parts of the US. California for example has
lost 87 emergency rooms in the last 10 yrs, with more desperatly
trying to stay afloat. And Im sure I dont have to tell you why..or do
I? It appears your ignorance is boundless on this subject.

I wonder...do you have ANY idea of why blacks and hispanics make up a
significant portion of the anti-illegal groups, the Minutemen
included?
Obviously your kneejerk cry of "racism" has fallen flat on its face.
so dont bother with that bull**** mantra. Actually do some research,
get off your fat white ass and look at the problem..instead of
parroting some leftist propaganda sound bites.

It will be an eye opener for you.

Gunner Asch

Rule #35
"That which does not kill you,
has made a huge tactical error"