"JohnH" wrote in message
...

Doubling the wages of the lettuce picker wouldn't come close to
doubling
the cost of lettuce. It may add a few pennies per head, but that's it.

That's based on an incorrect assumption. I would expect a teacher to
stumble
here. You did.


right

Proud of that?

right

You're already dead. Can't afford the funeral?

Gunner wrote:
On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 17:34:22 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 15:53:48 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:


It will be an eye opener for you.

Gunner Asch

To be perfectly honest, I have different priorities than you do, when it
comes to dealing with violence. I'm more focused on why three or four
elected officials and one or two shady advisors continue to live in
luxury,
at known addresses, even though they're responsible for the deaths of 2800
Americans.


So in other words..you are a preprogrammed partisan hack with only one
agenda and admittedly ignorant as a bag of hammers about the illegal
issue, about which you have expounded at some length.

Would that be a fair summation?

Gunner Asch

Because you incessantly resort to insults, it's clear you feel strongly
about this immigrant thing. I think you should find a way to skim some of
the money just appropriated for your president's big fence. There should be
plenty, since it won't work, and probably will never get started.


Yes..I feel VERY strongly about the Illegal issue. And more so everyday.
They closed the ER AND the hospital down here in the small town I live
in..because of the illegals. And now the closest emergency medical care
is 42 miles away. People are dying in transit now...because of Illegals.
Property taxes are high..California has one of the highest tax rates in
the US..because of Illegals. School districts are overcrowded and dumbed
down because of illegals. Crime is way up and in many places, its no
longer safe to travel, because of illegals.

The Fence? Its going up. Why do you say it wont work? Many stretches
along Californias southern borders are already working.
The anti-illegal movement is growning..the majority of the People are
strongly in favor of stopping illegal immigration..to the tune of some
80 or more percent. So its going up. And when that stretch is
completed..more will go up.

Odd that you should even think about ripping off the government, and by
extension..the People.

It would appear, that no only are you stupid (statement of fact) but
also have serious charector issues.

Its only an insult when its not true. Nothing Ive said so far..that you
consider an :insult:...has been untrue. Though from your point of
view..deep in denial..I can understand it. Child molesters dont like to
be labled child molesters anymore than the buffoonish like to be labled
buffoons.

Must such to be you.

So kick back, enjoy the fall colors, get ready for winter and let the
heavy issues be settled by people who actually give a ****.

Gunner



"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3



Show me a 50' fence, I'll show you a 50' ladder. Mostly they clip a
hole in it, or dig a few inches beneath it. The fence is a
billion-dollar boondoggle to Bush's friends. Fining the employers who
hire illegals is the only thing that will work.

--
*fas-cism* (fash'iz'em) n. A system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with belligerent nationalism.
-- The American Heritage Dictionary



"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is...I think it's also important for the president to lay out a timetable as to how long they will be involved and when they will be withdrawn."
------George W. Bush to the Houston Chronicle, April 9th, 1999

On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 17:59:09 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 17:34:22 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
news On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 15:53:48 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:


It will be an eye opener for you.

Gunner Asch


To be perfectly honest, I have different priorities than you do, when it
comes to dealing with violence. I'm more focused on why three or four
elected officials and one or two shady advisors continue to live in
luxury,
at known addresses, even though they're responsible for the deaths of
2800
Americans.

So in other words..you are a preprogrammed partisan hack with only one
agenda and admittedly ignorant as a bag of hammers about the illegal
issue, about which you have expounded at some length.

Would that be a fair summation?

Gunner Asch


Because you incessantly resort to insults, it's clear you feel strongly
about this immigrant thing. I think you should find a way to skim some of
the money just appropriated for your president's big fence. There should
be
plenty, since it won't work, and probably will never get started.

Yes..I feel VERY strongly about the Illegal issue. And more so everyday.
They closed the ER AND the hospital down here in the small town I live
in..because of the illegals. And now the closest emergency medical care
is 42 miles away. People are dying in transit now...because of Illegals.
Property taxes are high..California has one of the highest tax rates in
the US..because of Illegals. School districts are overcrowded and dumbed
down because of illegals. Crime is way up and in many places, its no
longer safe to travel, because of illegals.

The Fence? Its going up. Why do you say it wont work? Many stretches
along Californias southern borders are already working.
The anti-illegal movement is growning..the majority of the People are
strongly in favor of stopping illegal immigration..to the tune of some
80 or more percent. So its going up. And when that stretch is
completed..more will go up.

Odd that you should even think about ripping off the government, and by
extension..the People.

It would appear, that no only are you stupid (statement of fact) but
also have serious charector issues.

Its only an insult when its not true. Nothing Ive said so far..that you
consider an :insult:...has been untrue. Though from your point of
view..deep in denial..I can understand it. Child molesters dont like to
be labled child molesters anymore than the buffoonish like to be labled
buffoons.

Must such to be you.

So kick back, enjoy the fall colors, get ready for winter and let the
heavy issues be settled by people who actually give a ****.

Gunner

Skimming is suspected to be eating up almost 20% of the so-called
reconstruction budget in Iraq. The same will happen with your president's
fence project. Since you're one of "the people", you may as well get back
some of your hard earned money.

So we are using Middle Easterners ..a people whom the term Bakshee is
part of their culture, to build the Fence?

Hummm..though given the Corruption of unions and the Blue
States..perhaps we do have our own quasi middle easterners. Democrats


Gunner



"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3

On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 21:18:54 -0500, gringo wrote:


Show me a 50' fence, I'll show you a 50' ladder. Mostly they clip a
hole in it, or dig a few inches beneath it. The fence is a
billion-dollar boondoggle to Bush's friends. Fining the employers who
hire illegals is the only thing that will work.


Chuckle..you think this is gonna be a simply 6 strand barbed wire fence
that is never checked?

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/homesec/RL33659.pdf

Note the extensive use of electronics, Preditor Drones and fast reaction
forces.

The current San Diego Fence has already had a strong effect as the
arrests dropped suddenly..as the illegals moved easterly into Aridzona
to go around the fence. So the California problem shifted into the next
state over.

Seems that fencing DOES work.


Gunner



"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3

On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 17:56:20 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 17:14:06 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 15:35:59 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
om...
On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 10:57:14 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
news:gs43k210l98sl4h30jmemjjh4pp8mbb0q2@4ax .com...


The authoritative source on crime and arrests is the FBI's "Crime in
the United States" (CIUS).
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/

In 2005, there were 14,094,186 arrests in all jurisdictions; 603,000
of those were for violent crime. So, 4.3% of arrests were for
violent
crime, and about 96% for property crime, stock fraud, etc.

GAO reported its study of illegal alien prisoners and the offenses
for
which they were arrested. Among a sample of illegal alien prisoners,
12% had been arrested for violent crimes.
http://www.gao.gov/htext/d05646r.html

There are 2,079,000 prisoners (fed, state, local), and 270,000 of
those are illegal aliens.

Conclusions:
* Whether there are 8 million illegals, or 9 or 10 million (we don't
know) among our 300 million US population, illegals are less than
3.4%
of residents.
* Yet, they are 13% of prisoners (270K / 2,079K), and 36% of those
arrested and incarcerated for violent crimes (4.3% of 2,079K =
89.4K.
12% of 270K = 32.4K. 32.4 / 89.4 = 36%)
* 88% of illegal alien criminals are not violent criminals, BUT
illegal alien CRIMINALS are three times as likely to commit violent
crime as criminals who are NOT illegal aliens (i.e. either natives,
naturalized, or arrived here legally): 12% vs. 4.3%.

What does that mean in the GENERAL population, not just the criminal
underworld? It's BAD.

In a representative sample of 10,000 US residents, there would be:
333 illegal aliens, of those
9 are jailed, and of those
1 (1.1) was arrested for violent crime. One violent criminal per 309
illegal aliens.

Among the sample's 9,667 non-aliens, there would be:
60 jailed, and of those
3 (2.6) were arrested for violent crime. One violent criminal per
3,729 non-aliens.

So the illegal alien GENERAL population has a propensity for violent
crime 12 times that of the remainder of the US population. (3,729 /
309 = 12.1)



Two things:

1) My toaster failed to kill me for the 8 billionth time. Has it made
a
tactical error?


2) Get me some stats showing other populations in THIS country which
are
overrepresented in the prisons.


http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm

Interesting stats. What do they mean to you?

It means that there are certain segments of our society who are more
prone to crime/violence than others, for a number of reasons.

And what do they mean to you?

Gunner

I agree with your last statement. But, those numbers don't indicate
anything
about illegal immigrants unless more detail is provided.

was this your question or not?:

"Get me some stats showing other populations in THIS country which are
overrepresented in the prisons."

Or are you trying to do another goalpost change once that I provided
them from irrefutable sources?

No. It was the first step on the way to my last question, about illegal
immigrants. Now that you've (correctly) pointed out differences between
certain groups, do you have any theories as to why these differences exist?

Ive pointed them out repeatedly. Are you really this stupid?

Again..for the record..its "culture"

Now was there anything else you wish to ask before I write you off as
terminally stupid?

Ignorance is correctable
Stupidity is genetic and is for life.


Gunner



"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3

On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 17:57:06 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 17:32:57 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:


Upscale NY..now there is a hotbed of illegal aliens. Oh **** yes.

The Finger Lakes are beautiful this time of the year, arent they?

So...it appears you have confirmed my comments on needing to get out a
bit more. Pity.

I see. You think the crops here jump off the plants into the boxes by
themselves. What percentage of the workers are legal vs illegal?

Crops come off the plants in New York the same way they do in
California. By machine or by hand. Here in California...most of the
workers are legal. Percentage wise..probably 70/30 legal to illegal.
ICE and the State have been fairly proactive. On the other hand..small
business outside of agriculture makes up the majority of illegal labor.
Everything from sweat shops to plating shops to yard service and day
labor. And a large majority of some of those industries are comprised of
illegals. Illegals with false ID.

The ratio is about 50/50 here. But, you knew that.

In upstate New York? Why would I pay any attention to Upstate New Yorks
illegal alien problem, specificly?

Gunner




"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3

Gunner wrote:
On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 21:18:54 -0500, gringo wrote:


Show me a 50' fence, I'll show you a 50' ladder. Mostly they clip a
hole in it, or dig a few inches beneath it. The fence is a
billion-dollar boondoggle to Bush's friends. Fining the employers who
hire illegals is the only thing that will work.



Chuckle..you think this is gonna be a simply 6 strand barbed wire fence
that is never checked?

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/homesec/RL33659.pdf

Note the extensive use of electronics, Preditor Drones and fast reaction
forces.

The current San Diego Fence has already had a strong effect as the
arrests dropped suddenly..as the illegals moved easterly into Aridzona
to go around the fence. So the California problem shifted into the next
state over.

Seems that fencing DOES work.


Gunner




BS. I lived for a time in SD, and I drive along the borderlands of
CA-AZ-NM several times per month. Illegals cross the mountains east of
the city without any problem (except lack of water). Even now, with all
the hoopla about the problem, even now, you can sit on the shoulder of
I-8 in a dozen places and watch them straggle through the mountain
passes. The new fence won't be installed through the mountains. And
just where are we going to get the money to pay for the expensive
electronics--not to mention the trained "rapid reaction forces?" From
the taxpayers, of course. Certainly not from the big corporations that
benefit from the lower wages.

The ground along the border has been seeded with electronic detection
devices for quite some time, with little effect. Oh, technology
works--but REpublicans beginning with REagan handicapped the Border
Patrol and all other enforcement efforts. Before Reagan, Border Patrol
agents all over the nation regularly raided those who employed illegal
aliens, and loaded the illegals onto buses headed for the border; before
Reagan, illegals skulked around in the shadows, or hid within the legal
Latino communities. Reagan opened his arms and our borders to them.
Nowadays, the Border Patrol are essentially mute witnesses to the flood
of humanity crossing the southern border.

During Bush Jr's terms, citizen groups have been our only border
defense. During Bush's terms, what American jobs aren't up for grabs to
the lowest bidder are being sent overseas (with the blessings of Bush
and the Conservative Congress). Sixty thousand American-owned factories
have relocated to China in the last five years. ****, even the coolie
wages are too steep for the likes of Walmart, which is in a fight with
China's government over their stated intention to raise the wages WM
must pay by a few cents per week per employee.

Empower the Border Patrol, not just along the borders but all over the
nation; authorize local law enforcement apprehension of illegals; and
fine the hell out of those who provide the illegals with a job.



"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3



--
*fas-cism* (fash'iz'em) n. A system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with belligerent nationalism.
-- The American Heritage Dictionary



"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is...I think it's also important for the president to lay out a timetable as to how long they will be involved and when they will be withdrawn."
------George W. Bush to the Houston Chronicle, April 9th, 1999

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"JohnH" wrote in message
...

Doubling the wages of the lettuce picker wouldn't come close to
doubling
the cost of lettuce. It may add a few pennies per head, but that's
it.

That's based on an incorrect assumption. I would expect a teacher to
stumble
here. You did.


right

Proud of that?

right

You're already dead. Can't afford the funeral?


You ever watched them pick and pack lettuce?

On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 01:33:19 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .

Doubling the wages of the lettuce picker wouldn't come close to
doubling
the cost of lettuce. It may add a few pennies per head, but that's it.

That's based on an incorrect assumption. I would expect a teacher to
stumble
here. You did.


right

Proud of that?

right

You're already dead. Can't afford the funeral?


I love it when your 'argument' turns to a personal attack.

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 17:56:20 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 17:14:06 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
m...
On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 15:35:59 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
news:au74k2t219sv0gnu508cook9d6tntun9h7@4ax. com...
On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 10:57:14 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
news:gs43k210l98sl4h30jmemjjh4pp8mbb0q2@4a x.com...


The authoritative source on crime and arrests is the FBI's "Crime
in
the United States" (CIUS).
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/

In 2005, there were 14,094,186 arrests in all jurisdictions;
603,000
of those were for violent crime. So, 4.3% of arrests were for
violent
crime, and about 96% for property crime, stock fraud, etc.

GAO reported its study of illegal alien prisoners and the offenses
for
which they were arrested. Among a sample of illegal alien
prisoners,
12% had been arrested for violent crimes.
http://www.gao.gov/htext/d05646r.html

There are 2,079,000 prisoners (fed, state, local), and 270,000 of
those are illegal aliens.

Conclusions:
* Whether there are 8 million illegals, or 9 or 10 million (we
don't
know) among our 300 million US population, illegals are less than
3.4%
of residents.
* Yet, they are 13% of prisoners (270K / 2,079K), and 36% of those
arrested and incarcerated for violent crimes (4.3% of 2,079K =
89.4K.
12% of 270K = 32.4K. 32.4 / 89.4 = 36%)
* 88% of illegal alien criminals are not violent criminals, BUT
illegal alien CRIMINALS are three times as likely to commit
violent
crime as criminals who are NOT illegal aliens (i.e. either
natives,
naturalized, or arrived here legally): 12% vs. 4.3%.

What does that mean in the GENERAL population, not just the
criminal
underworld? It's BAD.

In a representative sample of 10,000 US residents, there would be:
333 illegal aliens, of those
9 are jailed, and of those
1 (1.1) was arrested for violent crime. One violent criminal per
309
illegal aliens.

Among the sample's 9,667 non-aliens, there would be:
60 jailed, and of those
3 (2.6) were arrested for violent crime. One violent criminal per
3,729 non-aliens.

So the illegal alien GENERAL population has a propensity for
violent
crime 12 times that of the remainder of the US population. (3,729
/
309 = 12.1)



Two things:

1) My toaster failed to kill me for the 8 billionth time. Has it
made
a
tactical error?


2) Get me some stats showing other populations in THIS country which
are
overrepresented in the prisons.


http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm

Interesting stats. What do they mean to you?

It means that there are certain segments of our society who are more
prone to crime/violence than others, for a number of reasons.

And what do they mean to you?

Gunner

I agree with your last statement. But, those numbers don't indicate
anything
about illegal immigrants unless more detail is provided.

was this your question or not?:

"Get me some stats showing other populations in THIS country which are
overrepresented in the prisons."

Or are you trying to do another goalpost change once that I provided
them from irrefutable sources?

No. It was the first step on the way to my last question, about illegal
immigrants. Now that you've (correctly) pointed out differences between
certain groups, do you have any theories as to why these differences
exist?

Ive pointed them out repeatedly. Are you really this stupid?

Again..for the record..its "culture"

Now was there anything else you wish to ask before I write you off as
terminally stupid?

Ignorance is correctable
Stupidity is genetic and is for life.


Gunner

Newsgroups must be the only place anyone will attempt to converse with you.
That could change, and then what? Argue with your refrigerator? You might
want to see a shrink.