"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 17:14:06 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 15:35:59 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
m...
On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 10:57:14 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
news:gs43k210l98sl4h30jmemjjh4pp8mbb0q2@4ax. com...


The authoritative source on crime and arrests is the FBI's "Crime in
the United States" (CIUS).
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/

In 2005, there were 14,094,186 arrests in all jurisdictions; 603,000
of those were for violent crime. So, 4.3% of arrests were for
violent
crime, and about 96% for property crime, stock fraud, etc.

GAO reported its study of illegal alien prisoners and the offenses
for
which they were arrested. Among a sample of illegal alien prisoners,
12% had been arrested for violent crimes.
http://www.gao.gov/htext/d05646r.html

There are 2,079,000 prisoners (fed, state, local), and 270,000 of
those are illegal aliens.

Conclusions:
* Whether there are 8 million illegals, or 9 or 10 million (we don't
know) among our 300 million US population, illegals are less than
3.4%
of residents.
* Yet, they are 13% of prisoners (270K / 2,079K), and 36% of those
arrested and incarcerated for violent crimes (4.3% of 2,079K =
89.4K.
12% of 270K = 32.4K. 32.4 / 89.4 = 36%)
* 88% of illegal alien criminals are not violent criminals, BUT
illegal alien CRIMINALS are three times as likely to commit violent
crime as criminals who are NOT illegal aliens (i.e. either natives,
naturalized, or arrived here legally): 12% vs. 4.3%.

What does that mean in the GENERAL population, not just the criminal
underworld? It's BAD.

In a representative sample of 10,000 US residents, there would be:
333 illegal aliens, of those
9 are jailed, and of those
1 (1.1) was arrested for violent crime. One violent criminal per 309
illegal aliens.

Among the sample's 9,667 non-aliens, there would be:
60 jailed, and of those
3 (2.6) were arrested for violent crime. One violent criminal per
3,729 non-aliens.

So the illegal alien GENERAL population has a propensity for violent
crime 12 times that of the remainder of the US population. (3,729 /
309 = 12.1)



Two things:

1) My toaster failed to kill me for the 8 billionth time. Has it made
a
tactical error?


2) Get me some stats showing other populations in THIS country which
are
overrepresented in the prisons.


http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm

Interesting stats. What do they mean to you?

It means that there are certain segments of our society who are more
prone to crime/violence than others, for a number of reasons.

And what do they mean to you?

Gunner

I agree with your last statement. But, those numbers don't indicate
anything
about illegal immigrants unless more detail is provided.

was this your question or not?:

"Get me some stats showing other populations in THIS country which are
overrepresented in the prisons."

Or are you trying to do another goalpost change once that I provided
them from irrefutable sources?

No. It was the first step on the way to my last question, about illegal
immigrants. Now that you've (correctly) pointed out differences between
certain groups, do you have any theories as to why these differences exist?

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 17:32:57 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:


Upscale NY..now there is a hotbed of illegal aliens. Oh **** yes.

The Finger Lakes are beautiful this time of the year, arent they?

So...it appears you have confirmed my comments on needing to get out a
bit more. Pity.

I see. You think the crops here jump off the plants into the boxes by
themselves. What percentage of the workers are legal vs illegal?

Crops come off the plants in New York the same way they do in
California. By machine or by hand. Here in California...most of the
workers are legal. Percentage wise..probably 70/30 legal to illegal.
ICE and the State have been fairly proactive. On the other hand..small
business outside of agriculture makes up the majority of illegal labor.
Everything from sweat shops to plating shops to yard service and day
labor. And a large majority of some of those industries are comprised of
illegals. Illegals with false ID.

The ratio is about 50/50 here. But, you knew that.

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 17:34:22 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 15:53:48 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:


It will be an eye opener for you.

Gunner Asch


To be perfectly honest, I have different priorities than you do, when it
comes to dealing with violence. I'm more focused on why three or four
elected officials and one or two shady advisors continue to live in
luxury,
at known addresses, even though they're responsible for the deaths of
2800
Americans.

So in other words..you are a preprogrammed partisan hack with only one
agenda and admittedly ignorant as a bag of hammers about the illegal
issue, about which you have expounded at some length.

Would that be a fair summation?

Gunner Asch


Because you incessantly resort to insults, it's clear you feel strongly
about this immigrant thing. I think you should find a way to skim some of
the money just appropriated for your president's big fence. There should
be
plenty, since it won't work, and probably will never get started.

Yes..I feel VERY strongly about the Illegal issue. And more so everyday.
They closed the ER AND the hospital down here in the small town I live
in..because of the illegals. And now the closest emergency medical care
is 42 miles away. People are dying in transit now...because of Illegals.
Property taxes are high..California has one of the highest tax rates in
the US..because of Illegals. School districts are overcrowded and dumbed
down because of illegals. Crime is way up and in many places, its no
longer safe to travel, because of illegals.

The Fence? Its going up. Why do you say it wont work? Many stretches
along Californias southern borders are already working.
The anti-illegal movement is growning..the majority of the People are
strongly in favor of stopping illegal immigration..to the tune of some
80 or more percent. So its going up. And when that stretch is
completed..more will go up.

Odd that you should even think about ripping off the government, and by
extension..the People.

It would appear, that no only are you stupid (statement of fact) but
also have serious charector issues.

Its only an insult when its not true. Nothing Ive said so far..that you
consider an :insult:...has been untrue. Though from your point of
view..deep in denial..I can understand it. Child molesters dont like to
be labled child molesters anymore than the buffoonish like to be labled
buffoons.

Must such to be you.

So kick back, enjoy the fall colors, get ready for winter and let the
heavy issues be settled by people who actually give a ****.

Gunner

Skimming is suspected to be eating up almost 20% of the so-called
reconstruction budget in Iraq. The same will happen with your president's
fence project. Since you're one of "the people", you may as well get back
some of your hard earned money.

Gunner wrote:
On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 17:14:06 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 15:35:59 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 10:57:14 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
...

The authoritative source on crime and arrests is the FBI's "Crime in
the United States" (CIUS).
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/

In 2005, there were 14,094,186 arrests in all jurisdictions; 603,000
of those were for violent crime. So, 4.3% of arrests were for violent
crime, and about 96% for property crime, stock fraud, etc.

GAO reported its study of illegal alien prisoners and the offenses for
which they were arrested. Among a sample of illegal alien prisoners,
12% had been arrested for violent crimes.
http://www.gao.gov/htext/d05646r.html

There are 2,079,000 prisoners (fed, state, local), and 270,000 of
those are illegal aliens.

Conclusions:
* Whether there are 8 million illegals, or 9 or 10 million (we don't
know) among our 300 million US population, illegals are less than 3.4%
of residents.
* Yet, they are 13% of prisoners (270K / 2,079K), and 36% of those
arrested and incarcerated for violent crimes (4.3% of 2,079K = 89.4K.
12% of 270K = 32.4K. 32.4 / 89.4 = 36%)
* 88% of illegal alien criminals are not violent criminals, BUT
illegal alien CRIMINALS are three times as likely to commit violent
crime as criminals who are NOT illegal aliens (i.e. either natives,
naturalized, or arrived here legally): 12% vs. 4.3%.

What does that mean in the GENERAL population, not just the criminal
underworld? It's BAD.

In a representative sample of 10,000 US residents, there would be:
333 illegal aliens, of those
9 are jailed, and of those
1 (1.1) was arrested for violent crime. One violent criminal per 309
illegal aliens.

Among the sample's 9,667 non-aliens, there would be:
60 jailed, and of those
3 (2.6) were arrested for violent crime. One violent criminal per
3,729 non-aliens.

So the illegal alien GENERAL population has a propensity for violent
crime 12 times that of the remainder of the US population. (3,729 /
309 = 12.1)

Two things:

1) My toaster failed to kill me for the 8 billionth time. Has it made a
tactical error?


2) Get me some stats showing other populations in THIS country which are
overrepresented in the prisons.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm
Interesting stats. What do they mean to you?

It means that there are certain segments of our society who are more
prone to crime/violence than others, for a number of reasons.

And what do they mean to you?

Gunner
I agree with your last statement. But, those numbers don't indicate anything
about illegal immigrants unless more detail is provided.

was this your question or not?:

"Get me some stats showing other populations in THIS country which are
overrepresented in the prisons."

Or are you trying to do another goalpost change once that I provided
them from irrefutable sources?

Just ignore Doug, aka JoeSpareBedroom, he can't get anybody outside of
this newsgroup to interact with him and he does a good job of offending
everyone here too.

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
. ..


Just ignore Doug, aka JoeSpareBedroom, he can't get anybody outside of
this newsgroup to interact with him and he does a good job of offending
everyone here too.

Bert's crowning achievement: Connecting my name to my nickname. What's next
in this Mensa demo, Bert? Remembering where you put the car keys an hour
ago? Buttering toast without poking your eye out?

On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 13:51:37 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick" wrote in
message ...
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 00:22:15 -0400, "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick"
wrote:


You'll need proof, of course, that they're your e-mails.

They'll all have to be signed Gunner Asch.


Nope..they all have to originate from or
several others with spam protection built in

And I dont need to provide anything. You mean dick in the grand scheme
of things and are simply a bit of snot flicked on the wall, that I
note in disgust in passing

Snicker

Gunner

Are you employed at the moment? Is your job currently threatened by the
presence of cheaper workers?

It's obvious that his job would be threatened by cheap workers even if he
was employed.


Here's what's NOT obvious to him: The financial structure of many American
manufacturers has been completely reshaped around the idea of having goods
made overseas where labor is cheaper. This trend probably won't be reversed
unless we go to war with China, or when machinery is invented which can make
things even cheaper at plants in this country. In other words, the system is
here to stay.

The other factor which pushes this trend is our price expectations. I just
emailed Lands End to check my memory, but if I recall the last time I bought
American made dress shirts from them, they cost $25-$30, maybe more. That
was at least 10 years ago. I wonder what they'd cost now if they were still
made here. I would've paid more because I tend to take good care of them,
but somehow, they (and LL Bean, Van Heusen and everyone else) got the idea
that it was better to have them made overseas. But, I may not be the typical
buyer.

This relates to illegal workers because we are also accustomed to certain
price levels for goods and services created here. I've paid between 99 cents
and $1.79 per pound for Romaine or green leaf lettuce over the past couple
of years, depending on season. I wonder how Gunner would react if lettuce
suddenly cost $4.00 per pound because the harvesting had to be done by
citizens who expected quite a bit more than minimum wage for the hard work.

Doubling the wages of the lettuce picker wouldn't come close to doubling
the cost of lettuce. It may add a few pennies per head, but that's it.

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 13:51:37 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick" wrote in
message ...
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 00:22:15 -0400, "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick"
wrote:


You'll need proof, of course, that they're your e-mails.

They'll all have to be signed Gunner Asch.


Nope..they all have to originate from or
several others with spam protection built in

And I dont need to provide anything. You mean dick in the grand scheme
of things and are simply a bit of snot flicked on the wall, that I
note in disgust in passing

Snicker

Gunner

Are you employed at the moment? Is your job currently threatened by the
presence of cheaper workers?

It's obvious that his job would be threatened by cheap workers even if
he
was employed.


Here's what's NOT obvious to him: The financial structure of many American
manufacturers has been completely reshaped around the idea of having goods
made overseas where labor is cheaper. This trend probably won't be
reversed
unless we go to war with China, or when machinery is invented which can
make
things even cheaper at plants in this country. In other words, the system
is
here to stay.

The other factor which pushes this trend is our price expectations. I just
emailed Lands End to check my memory, but if I recall the last time I
bought
American made dress shirts from them, they cost $25-$30, maybe more. That
was at least 10 years ago. I wonder what they'd cost now if they were
still
made here. I would've paid more because I tend to take good care of them,
but somehow, they (and LL Bean, Van Heusen and everyone else) got the idea
that it was better to have them made overseas. But, I may not be the
typical
buyer.

This relates to illegal workers because we are also accustomed to certain
price levels for goods and services created here. I've paid between 99
cents
and $1.79 per pound for Romaine or green leaf lettuce over the past couple
of years, depending on season. I wonder how Gunner would react if lettuce
suddenly cost $4.00 per pound because the harvesting had to be done by
citizens who expected quite a bit more than minimum wage for the hard
work.

Doubling the wages of the lettuce picker wouldn't come close to doubling
the cost of lettuce. It may add a few pennies per head, but that's it.

That's based on an incorrect assumption. I would expect a teacher to stumble
here. You did.

On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 00:36:42 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 13:51:37 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick" wrote in
message ...
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 00:22:15 -0400, "Douglas W. \"Popeye\" Frederick"
wrote:


You'll need proof, of course, that they're your e-mails.

They'll all have to be signed Gunner Asch.


Nope..they all have to originate from or
several others with spam protection built in

And I dont need to provide anything. You mean dick in the grand scheme
of things and are simply a bit of snot flicked on the wall, that I
note in disgust in passing

Snicker

Gunner

Are you employed at the moment? Is your job currently threatened by the
presence of cheaper workers?

It's obvious that his job would be threatened by cheap workers even if
he
was employed.


Here's what's NOT obvious to him: The financial structure of many American
manufacturers has been completely reshaped around the idea of having goods
made overseas where labor is cheaper. This trend probably won't be
reversed
unless we go to war with China, or when machinery is invented which can
make
things even cheaper at plants in this country. In other words, the system
is
here to stay.

The other factor which pushes this trend is our price expectations. I just
emailed Lands End to check my memory, but if I recall the last time I
bought
American made dress shirts from them, they cost $25-$30, maybe more. That
was at least 10 years ago. I wonder what they'd cost now if they were
still
made here. I would've paid more because I tend to take good care of them,
but somehow, they (and LL Bean, Van Heusen and everyone else) got the idea
that it was better to have them made overseas. But, I may not be the
typical
buyer.

This relates to illegal workers because we are also accustomed to certain
price levels for goods and services created here. I've paid between 99
cents
and $1.79 per pound for Romaine or green leaf lettuce over the past couple
of years, depending on season. I wonder how Gunner would react if lettuce
suddenly cost $4.00 per pound because the harvesting had to be done by
citizens who expected quite a bit more than minimum wage for the hard
work.

Doubling the wages of the lettuce picker wouldn't come close to doubling
the cost of lettuce. It may add a few pennies per head, but that's it.

That's based on an incorrect assumption. I would expect a teacher to stumble
here. You did.


right

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 00:36:42 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"JohnH" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 13:51:37 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick" wrote
in
message ...
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 00:22:15 -0400, "Douglas W. \"Popeye\"
Frederick"
wrote:


You'll need proof, of course, that they're your e-mails.

They'll all have to be signed Gunner Asch.


Nope..they all have to originate from or
several others with spam protection built in

And I dont need to provide anything. You mean dick in the grand
scheme
of things and are simply a bit of snot flicked on the wall, that I
note in disgust in passing

Snicker

Gunner

Are you employed at the moment? Is your job currently threatened by
the
presence of cheaper workers?

It's obvious that his job would be threatened by cheap workers even
if
he
was employed.


Here's what's NOT obvious to him: The financial structure of many
American
manufacturers has been completely reshaped around the idea of having
goods
made overseas where labor is cheaper. This trend probably won't be
reversed
unless we go to war with China, or when machinery is invented which can
make
things even cheaper at plants in this country. In other words, the
system
is
here to stay.

The other factor which pushes this trend is our price expectations. I
just
emailed Lands End to check my memory, but if I recall the last time I
bought
American made dress shirts from them, they cost $25-$30, maybe more.
That
was at least 10 years ago. I wonder what they'd cost now if they were
still
made here. I would've paid more because I tend to take good care of
them,
but somehow, they (and LL Bean, Van Heusen and everyone else) got the
idea
that it was better to have them made overseas. But, I may not be the
typical
buyer.

This relates to illegal workers because we are also accustomed to
certain
price levels for goods and services created here. I've paid between 99
cents
and $1.79 per pound for Romaine or green leaf lettuce over the past
couple
of years, depending on season. I wonder how Gunner would react if
lettuce
suddenly cost $4.00 per pound because the harvesting had to be done by
citizens who expected quite a bit more than minimum wage for the hard
work.

Doubling the wages of the lettuce picker wouldn't come close to doubling
the cost of lettuce. It may add a few pennies per head, but that's it.

That's based on an incorrect assumption. I would expect a teacher to
stumble
here. You did.


right

Proud of that?

On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 00:59:30 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 00:36:42 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 13:51:37 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick" wrote
in
message ...
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 00:22:15 -0400, "Douglas W. \"Popeye\"
Frederick"
wrote:


You'll need proof, of course, that they're your e-mails.

They'll all have to be signed Gunner Asch.


Nope..they all have to originate from or
several others with spam protection built in

And I dont need to provide anything. You mean dick in the grand
scheme
of things and are simply a bit of snot flicked on the wall, that I
note in disgust in passing

Snicker

Gunner

Are you employed at the moment? Is your job currently threatened by
the
presence of cheaper workers?

It's obvious that his job would be threatened by cheap workers even
if
he
was employed.


Here's what's NOT obvious to him: The financial structure of many
American
manufacturers has been completely reshaped around the idea of having
goods
made overseas where labor is cheaper. This trend probably won't be
reversed
unless we go to war with China, or when machinery is invented which can
make
things even cheaper at plants in this country. In other words, the
system
is
here to stay.

The other factor which pushes this trend is our price expectations. I
just
emailed Lands End to check my memory, but if I recall the last time I
bought
American made dress shirts from them, they cost $25-$30, maybe more.
That
was at least 10 years ago. I wonder what they'd cost now if they were
still
made here. I would've paid more because I tend to take good care of
them,
but somehow, they (and LL Bean, Van Heusen and everyone else) got the
idea
that it was better to have them made overseas. But, I may not be the
typical
buyer.

This relates to illegal workers because we are also accustomed to
certain
price levels for goods and services created here. I've paid between 99
cents
and $1.79 per pound for Romaine or green leaf lettuce over the past
couple
of years, depending on season. I wonder how Gunner would react if
lettuce
suddenly cost $4.00 per pound because the harvesting had to be done by
citizens who expected quite a bit more than minimum wage for the hard
work.

Doubling the wages of the lettuce picker wouldn't come close to doubling
the cost of lettuce. It may add a few pennies per head, but that's it.

That's based on an incorrect assumption. I would expect a teacher to
stumble
here. You did.


right

Proud of that?

right