Guys,

am thinking about getting a different boat. Most likely an outbaord
150 HP.

I want a motor that:

- is somewhat light

- is as Quiet as possible

- Robust

Have been reading about Etec and it sounds like the machine to get ...
too good to be true though ..

Is an Etec 150 quieter as a Yamaha 150 4 stroke? How about fuel use? I
guess is the same.

How much oil doies the Etec burn with TCW3 and XD100 oil?

Can an ETec be rebuilt?

Whats your experience with Etec?

What do you hear from the other guys?

Thanks

Matt

Tom,
I've been liking everything I hear about the E-tec except for one thing. I
can't get over how much the cost of the oil affects the cost to operate.

If it burns oil at a 100:1 ratio, and you pay $30/gallon for the oil, that
adds 30 cents to every gallon of fuel you burn.

So when the four-stroke guys are buying gas at $2.50/gallon, you're paying
$2.80/gallon after you add in the cost of the oil.

For a guy like me who probably goes through 2000 gallons of gas each year,
that's an extra $600 in oil costs. If the oil burn rate is closer to 50:1,
then the oil costs jump to a whopping $1200 extra per year!

If you do your own oil changes on the four strokes, your cost to maintain
those four-strokes will run about $150/year.

If you're paying a dealer to maintain the engines, then it's a whole 'nuther
story. You'll pay about $500/year to maintain them, and you'll have the
hassle of being without the boat three times as often as the E-tec due to
the recommended service schedule. To me, this is the only true advantage.

The weight difference between my Suzuki DF250 and an E-Tec 250 is
practically negligible. And the Suzuki's 16" prop and lower gearing makes
up for any perceived low-end grunt deficit common to four-strokes.

I'd buy the one with the cheaper price tag and better dealer support.












"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
news
On 4 Dec 2005 17:49:07 -0800, wrote:

Guys,

am thinking about getting a different boat. Most likely an outbaord
150 HP.

I want a motor that:

- is somewhat light

- is as Quiet as possible

- Robust

Have been reading about Etec and it sounds like the machine to get ...
too good to be true though ..

It 's all true.

Is an Etec 150 quieter as a Yamaha 150 4 stroke? How about fuel use? I
guess is the same.

Not only is it quieter, it burns cleaner and is more fuel efficient by
about 20/30%.

How much oil doies the Etec burn with TCW3 and XD100 oil?

Don't even bother wtih XD-50 although it will burn it, it burns about
the same rate as the FICHT. To tell you the truth, I don't know what
we burned this year in total as we haven't done the year end figures
yet, but last year we used two and a half to three gallons total over
the summer. I'll get back to you later today.

Can an ETec be rebuilt?

Any engine can be rebuilt. Are you asking if you could rebuild it?

Whats your experience with Etec?

I couldn't ask for better engines. I have two on a 32 foot Contender
Fisharound and their quiet efficiency is just shy of spectacular. I
have had no service issues and after two years of experience with
them, I fully expect to have more problem free years in the future.

They are quieter, cleaner, quicker, burn less fuel and oil. The
acceleration you get is quite amazing. My friend who uses my
Contender for his own small charter business has converted two Yamaha
users to E-TEC and several guys at the marina where the boat is stored
are buying E-TECs over the winter to retrofit their Gradys' - one from
Yamaha and one from Suzuki.

As I said, I don't have the figures right at hand, but I think our
fuel consumption was significantly lower again this year than when I
had the previous Contender 32 with 225 FICHTs. I want to say it's
like 40% less, but I'll look that up and get back to you.

What do you hear from the other guys?

Guys with the bigger bass boats that have E-TECs are slowly converting
the cowering masses back to this two stroke technology. I've chatted
with a few who have smaller E-TECS, 90s mostly, couple 50s, and they
swear by them. I have yet to meet an E-TEC owner who has a bad thing
to say about E-TEC. I can introduce you to a bunch of Yamaha 4 stroke
owners who would just love to change technology now that they've owned
them for a few years, but are so deep into them in terms of money,
that they can't get out.

I know a guy who had a Merc Verado on a Ranger Z-22 who damn near
murdered his dealer for recommending the Verado. He's now got an
E-TEC on the back of his boat and is happier than the proverbial pig
in swill pit.

Having said all this, E-TEC is the engine technology of the future for
marine use. I occasionally work as a fill in Captain for a Sea//Tow
franchise operator down south of me and I convinced him to go with
E-TECs on his new 28 foot rigid hull "inflatable" service boat. If he
has said to me once this past summer, he's said it a dozen times -
he's glad he switched because his gas bill is half what it was last
year and he's had zero, that is a big goose egg, in maintenance.

At the moment, I'm half thinking about converting my 20' Ranger bay
boat over to E-TEC, but I have a 200 FICHT on it and I'm perfectly
happy with it. It has low hours, runs like a top and is a perfect fit
for the boat. I'm not going to change it over right yet. I may get a
new 24' Ranger bay boat and I'll put an E-TEC on that.

One word of warning. There is a denizen who haunts this newsgroup who
has a thing about this technology and will probably surface to attempt
to dissuade you. Be aware that this individual has never owned a
FICHT, never owned E-TEC, distorts and twists the stats and only
attempts to gainsay others about everything because of jealousy and
spite. It's a very typical reaction of somebody who has nothing,
wants everything and is insanely jealous of those who do have what
they can't.

If you want to ask more complex details, go to
http://www.swsports.org, follow the email instructions and we'll chat
about E-TEC.

Good luck - hope this helps you a little.

Later,

Tom

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 14:14:21 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:

Tom,
I've been liking everything I hear about the E-tec except for one thing.
I
can't get over how much the cost of the oil affects the cost to operate.

If it burns oil at a 100:1 ratio, and you pay $30/gallon for the oil, that
adds 30 cents to every gallon of fuel you burn.

You are right about the 100:1, but, believe it or not - up to you,
there is almost zero waste flowing through the crankcase. I don't
know the exact figures because as I said, we haven't gotten around to
doing the year end figures yet, but compared to my FICHT last year,
the E-TECs burned close to 45% less oil - E-TECs EMM handles an
almost total burn which increases efficiency by an amazing amount. Add
the superior gas efficiency to a four stroke and you are well ahead
of the ROI. horse power to horse power over a four stroke.

So when the four-stroke guys are buying gas at $2.50/gallon, you're paying
$2.80/gallon after you add in the cost of the oil.

No - we figured it out based on last years figures that we were adding
maybe .05¢ to a gallon of gas using the XD-100. Using the XD-50 you
have a point. And with the new, improved XD-100, it might even be
less than the .05¢ a gallon.

For a guy like me who probably goes through 2000 gallons of gas each year,
that's an extra $600 in oil costs. If the oil burn rate is closer to
50:1,
then the oil costs jump to a whopping $1200 extra per year!

I can't speak to your situation, but my Sea/Tow friend that I sub for
on occasion says he saved close to 40% of his total fuel costs with
his E-TECS. He has Suzuki's on his other boat so that's a decent
comparison.

If you do your own oil changes on the four strokes, your cost to maintain
those four-strokes will run about $150/year.

If you're paying a dealer to maintain the engines, then it's a whole
'nuther
story. You'll pay about $500/year to maintain them, and you'll have the
hassle of being without the boat three times as often as the E-tec due to
the recommended service schedule. To me, this is the only true advantage.

The weight difference between my Suzuki DF250 and an E-Tec 250 is
practically negligible. And the Suzuki's 16" prop and lower gearing makes
up for any perceived low-end grunt deficit common to four-strokes.

I'd buy the one with the cheaper price tag and better dealer support.

You have a slight point with the dealer support. Around here, we have
a superior BRP/OMC guy who really knows these engines inside and out
so that's not a major concern.

As to price, cost isn't everything. Environmentally, E-TECs are
cleaner, burn less gas and will beat the snot out of any four stroke
horse power to horse power in top end and acceleration. I know a
fellow who has a 185 Ranger with a 90 E-TEC and he can out run, out
hole shot and out everything a comparable boat with a 150/200 whatever
on it. I wouldn't have believed it myself, but he can out hole shot
me in my 200 C Ranger and I've got 110 hp on him and a superior prop.

There are pros to buying cheap, but I'd prefer to keep most of my
money on this side of the ocean rather than Japan. The only reason
Yamaha's and Suzuki's are popular is purchase cost because it isn't
superior technology.

By the way, I went to look at a 282 Grady White today - I'm thinking
as my partner is finally financially secure enough and he wants to
purchase the Contender. I'm not convinced I want a 282 - I'm thinking
an Albin or maybe even one of the new Topaz, but I'm not a diesel fan.

If you want outboards, I'd look at the Grady White or Pursuit. I chose the
Grady because I heard that Grady White is far superior to work with if you
have a problem after the sale.

If you decide on diesels, be sure to check out Albemarle and Caroline
Classic.

I like that Albin, and it's extremely economical to run if you don't mind
cruising at 18 knots on a single engine.

Tom,

thanks for your info

Is an Etec 150 quieter as a Yamaha 150 4 stroke? How about fuel use? I
guess is the same.

Not only is it quieter, it burns cleaner and is more fuel efficient by
about 20/30%.

Do you have first hand experience 4stroke vs Etec? Is a 150 Etec
quieter than a 150 Yamaha 4 stroke? Not just at idle but throught the
RPM range lets say up to 4500?

at WOT we dont care


How much oil does the Etec burn with TCW3 and XD100 oil?

Don't even bother wtih XD-50 although it will burn it, it burns about
the same rate as the FICHT. To tell you the truth, I don't know what
we burned this year in total as we haven't done the year end figures
yet, but last year we used two and a half to three gallons total over
the summer. I'll get back to you later today.

Bombardier used to state on their webpage how much oil the motor uses
.... with the special oil it was about half of the TC3 use ... I cant
find that info anymore ... The oil use does not appear anywhere in
their brochure ...


Can an ETec be rebuilt?

Any engine can be rebuilt. Are you asking if you could rebuild it?

I am wondering because it has those specially coated cylinders (boron
nitrate or whatnot) If you rebiuld the engine how doe the coating get
back on there?


One word of warning. There is a denizen who haunts this newsgroup who
has a thing about this technology and will probably surface to attempt
to dissuade you.

You mean Karen? I think she does have points and what she argues makes
sense. But it looks like these days the lean burn issues dont cause
Kabooms anymore...

I currently have a 200 HP optimax. It is great on fuel but gobbles up
the oil .. also it is LOUD. The main reason I want to get rid of it
.....

Boating is relaxing if you glide through the water but not if your
eardrums are hurting

If you want to ask more complex details, go to
http://www.swsports.org, follow the email instructions and we'll chat
about E-TEC.

Great! I shall look into that


Good luck - hope this helps you a little.


It does, thanks again!

Matt

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 17:30:34 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:

By the way, I went to look at a 282 Grady White today - I'm thinking
as my partner is finally financially secure enough and he wants to
purchase the Contender. I'm not convinced I want a 282 - I'm thinking
an Albin or maybe even one of the new Topaz, but I'm not a diesel fan.

If you want outboards, I'd look at the Grady White or Pursuit. I chose
the
Grady because I heard that Grady White is far superior to work with if you
have a problem after the sale.

Well, I want E-TECs and I'm not sure what Grady's policy is on that. I
believe they are tied in with Yamaha or maybe Merc. I know somebody
who tried to buy a bare boat from Grady and couldn't - or so he says.
After the holidays, I'll give them a call and see what's what.


Grady factory rigs for Yamaha motors. But I'm pretty sure that you can
order one rigged with whatever motors you'd like.



I've always been a big fan of Pursuit as a boat and I'd look at one of
those as long as I could get what I wanted.

Pro Line also has a bigger boat now - I think it the 30' category
which might be attractive, but that may also be a Grady situation.

I'm not a fan of Proline. I do like the Hydrasports Vector line though.


Like I said, I've got time and if I can sell my 20' Ranger bay boat to
buy a 24' Ranger bay boat, I may wait a year to see what's what on the
used market for something even bigger.

But I hate diesels. Except in my pickup truck. :)

Later,

Tom

Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On 5 Dec 2005 12:40:41 -0800, wrote:


Tom,

thanks for your info


Is an Etec 150 quieter as a Yamaha 150 4 stroke? How about fuel use? I
guess is the same.

Not only is it quieter, it burns cleaner and is more fuel efficient by
about 20/30%.

Do you have first hand experience 4stroke vs Etec? Is a 150 Etec
quieter than a 150 Yamaha 4 stroke? Not just at idle but throught the
RPM range lets say up to 4500?

at WOT we dont care


I can stand in the stern of the Contender at WOT and carry on a normal
conversation. Twin E-TEC 225s. The only thing that inhibits
conversation is the wind noise.


How much oil does the Etec burn with TCW3 and XD100 oil?

Don't even bother wtih XD-50 although it will burn it, it burns about
the same rate as the FICHT. To tell you the truth, I don't know what
we burned this year in total as we haven't done the year end figures
yet, but last year we used two and a half to three gallons total over
the summer. I'll get back to you later today.

Bombardier used to state on their webpage how much oil the motor uses
... with the special oil it was about half of the TC3 use ... I cant
find that info anymore ... The oil use does not appear anywhere in
their brochure ...


It's about or better than that - I'll have some figures for you later
on tonight.


Can an ETec be rebuilt?

Any engine can be rebuilt. Are you asking if you could rebuild it?

I am wondering because it has those specially coated cylinders (boron
nitrate or whatnot) If you rebiuld the engine how doe the coating get
back on there?


I'm probably being dense here, but if you are rebuilding, you'd want
to use a new block anyway.


One word of warning. There is a denizen who haunts this newsgroup who
has a thing about this technology and will probably surface to attempt
to dissuade you.

You mean Karen? I think she does have points and what she argues makes
sense. But it looks like these days the lean burn issues dont cause
Kabooms anymore...


That wasn't the issue to begin with. The issue was the FICHT
injector. And Karen has no personal knowledge of this having never
owned one. And the issues weren't across the spectrum of the FICHT
line but only involved the 150/175 block and not all of them.

I've never owned a ficht but that didn't debar me from correctly telling
you chapter & verse they wouldn't work & they didn't. Much more they
didn't because of the exact reasons we gave you in early 98.

As for not "knowing" how the injector worked we were the only ones who
knew how it worked!!! because OMC had fed the dealers BS, you were not
around in those days Tom but eventually we got Bill to actually pull a
Ficht injector apart & only then did he concede it wasn't an
electromagnet driven piston in a bore. Once he took our challenge to
clock the ball against the bore he discovered exactly as we'd been
telling him for months that the ONLY pressure rise was the pebble in a
bucket effect which Ficht had been trying to flog for years & none of
the proper engine people bought it till OMC fell for it. Ficht of course
then brought OMC down & also ****ed another 1.3 US$ Bill against the
retirees wall:-)


When I owned three FICHTs, I had one that had some problems and it was
with the EMM and not with the injector system. Bombardier replaced
the EMM, wiring harness, updated the software, new stator (which is
what failed) and new injectors at no cost to me - this was an OMC
motor. Karen claims that this proves that there is a 33% failure
rate. What it proved is that Karen is an idiot.

No the head of OMC himself gave the world a 1 in 5 failure rate, which
you & the dealers then tried to spin to something other than his own
public admissions. I merely pointed out & do here again you have had a
33% failure rate on your own Fichts. Where am i wrong???

I used to have some
respect for her opinons on other issues and often said so, but not any
more. She's burned another bridge on the NG.

Gee & I care?? if you are silly enough to keep throwing money at a
failed technology that's OK indeed thanks I enjoy your admissions of
failures.


I've owned FICHTs and I have E-TECs now. The previous FICHTs that I
had on my old Contender are solid as a rock and they are now
approaching 1,400 hours.

Ha ha ha 1400 hours:-) As one who knows what that means in terms of
boating hours on a fast boat like that I guess you get off light because
most here just choose to believe, please note me exception:-)

Again just do you know your Ficht failure was caused by detonation, due
to a design defect where the engine is deliberately run very lean at low
to mid power & with very poor fuel atomisation due to very low injection
pressure.

Great thing about NGs Tom is you can have your say but so can I.

K


I currently have a 200 HP optimax. It is great on fuel but gobbles up
the oil .. also it is LOUD. The main reason I want to get rid of it


Well, you won't regret it. Compared to the Optimax, you won't regret
it.


Boating is relaxing if you glide through the water but not if your
eardrums are hurting


If you want to ask more complex details, go to
http://www.swsports.org, follow the email instructions and we'll chat
about E-TEC.

Great! I shall look into that


Good luck - hope this helps you a little.

It does, thanks again!


Any time.

Later,

Tom

K. Smith wrote:



That wasn't the issue to begin with. The issue was the FICHT
injector. And Karen has no personal knowledge of this having never
owned one. And the issues weren't across the spectrum of the FICHT
line but only involved the 150/175 block and not all of them.


I've never owned a ficht but that didn't debar me from correctly telling
you chapter & verse they wouldn't work & they didn't. Much more they
didn't because of the exact reasons we gave you in early 98.

As for not "knowing" how the injector worked we were the only ones who
knew how it worked!!! because OMC had fed the dealers BS, you were not
around in those days Tom but eventually we got Bill to actually pull a
Ficht injector apart & only then did he concede it wasn't an
electromagnet driven piston in a bore. Once he took our challenge to
clock the ball against the bore he discovered exactly as we'd been
telling him for months that the ONLY pressure rise was the pebble in a
bucket effect which Ficht had been trying to flog for years & none of
the proper engine people bought it till OMC fell for it. Ficht of course
then brought OMC down & also ****ed another 1.3 US$ Bill against the
retirees wall:-)


When I owned three FICHTs, I had one that had some problems and it was
with the EMM and not with the injector system. Bombardier replaced
the EMM, wiring harness, updated the software, new stator (which is
what failed) and new injectors at no cost to me - this was an OMC
motor. Karen claims that this proves that there is a 33% failure
rate. What it proved is that Karen is an idiot.


No the head of OMC himself gave the world a 1 in 5 failure rate, which
you & the dealers then tried to spin to something other than his own
public admissions. I merely pointed out & do here again you have had a
33% failure rate on your own Fichts. Where am i wrong???

I used to have some

respect for her opinons on other issues and often said so, but not any
more. She's burned another bridge on the NG.


Gee & I care?? if you are silly enough to keep throwing money at a
failed technology that's OK indeed thanks I enjoy your admissions of
failures.


I've owned FICHTs and I have E-TECs now. The previous FICHTs that I
had on my old Contender are solid as a rock and they are now
approaching 1,400 hours.

Ha ha ha 1400 hours:-) As one who knows what that means in terms of
boating hours on a fast boat like that I guess you get off light because
most here just choose to believe, please note me exception:-)

Again just do you know your Ficht failure was caused by detonation, due
to a design defect where the engine is deliberately run very lean at low
to mid power & with very poor fuel atomisation due to very low injection
pressure.

Great thing about NGs Tom is you can have your say but so can I.

K

I do apologise because I didn't go checking before I answered.
Hey even though its google now it's still deja vu!!! have a look at the
pastes below I got those in a quick & dirty snoop & it's exactly the
same as the early Ficht problems, starts off industry people reporting
"failures" but for a while shell shocked brand loyal Tom type owners
scared out of their wits stay quiet hoping they haven't been done over
or in Tom's case done over again:-)

I now wish to predict by the end of the next US season even the E-Tec
owners will be howling as the Ficht owners eventually did & that will be
the end of any value for a boat fitted with E-Tecs (or Ficht of course
but you can't give a Ficht powered boat away for years)

Here ya go, some pastes to have a giggle by, feel free to save them I
have:-)


I recently purchased a leftover 2004 90-HP E-TEC. At the time of the
purchase the dealer assured me that the only difference between the
model years was the color of the motor, so I saved a little and went
blue rather than white. Now that my 2004 is sitting in the shop waiting
for a new powerhead the dealer tells me that essentially I will be
getting a 2005 powerhead since the reed block and manifolds are
different, as well as a new chip to "update" the computer (which I
thought was fully field updateable).

I liked the motor when it ran, but I am curious about getting a straight
answer from anyone that is truly in the loop about what has been changed
since 2004.

I will take this up further with my dealer in a few days once the motor
is back together and let folks know (if anyone is interested). And for
the curious about my blown motor, a rod bearing let loose (didn't toss
the piston but it made a horrendous noise till it finally wouldn't run).
Bombardier asked the dealer to ship it to them overnight so they could
check it out immediately--even had a service rep get right over to the
dealer. It appears they are at least interested in this situation. The
motor was labeled as being built in January 2004, was purchased and
installed by the dealer about September 1, 2004, and the dealer tells me
it had 14 hours on it at the time of its demise. That seems high to me
but....

I had been dead set on dropping a leftover v4 115 hp to replace my very
rugged (but now tired) '86 70hp on my Montauk (for about $2k less than
the etec cost me) when FU2 talked me into going the way I did. New
unproven technology is great for early adopters who can afford to be
field testers for the factory; this was a big break in my philosophy and
I just want to know as much about these things as I can find out.




PBM is dumping Evinrude 1:04 PM 11/19/2005

Just got the word when I picked up the boat form servicing. They claim
too many ETEC problems and are dumping them despite being a dealer
for 25 years. Called them "glorified FICHTs". They will be a Yamaha only
dealer as of 2006.

JP


PBM is dumping Evinrude (lemaymiami) 6:27 PM 11/20/2005

Quote, originally posted by lemaymiami »
Sushi, don't know who "PBM" is, but I do have a question. How could that
fine individual tell you so much about Evinrude with his (or her) head
so far up a dark place? ...

Again, I cant know for sure what his motivation is but he specifically
mentioned
dusky a few times sayin that the "dump" the engines. i think they just
dont want
to service engines sold by another dealer. He also said they mounted 3
sets of
ETECs and had to replace every powerhead. That sounded like BS to me, but I
cant know for sure.

JP


e: PBM is dumping Evinrude (SushiSeeker) 9:35 AM 11/21/2005

In 2003 I bought a new 225 Ficht from PBMC ( w/ 7 year warrenty ) I have
it serviced there only. Its been a great motor and love it Dan is the
service manager and has always treated me fairly and stands by his work.
I've asked them about the e-tecs and they did tell me all the problems
that they were having and wouldn't recommend one to someone at this
time. That they prefer the yamahas. I'm stickin with my Evinrude Ficht
for now. Can't beat that 7 yr warrenty


But hey he's the oil BS again!!! You remeber this one surely it's the "special" really expensive oil:-) Honestly this is too much to see it all again the second time round:-) exactly the same BS they gave us with Ficht??? Come on you NG old timers you must remember this la de de dah de dah:-) It's the same oil BS


vinrude E Tec engines
Had an interesting problem on a fishing trip last Sunday. (I have an E
Tec 75 on my Warrior 165).
The engine started fine and ticked over ok but after a few minutes at
fast speed/virtually full throttle the low oil quantity light came on
and the engine throttled back to idle (which it should do if its got low
oil). However the oil level was full.
I restarted it and it ran fine again for a few minutes before the same
happened again. It did the same three times before running ok for the
rest of the day.
On flushing the engine with freshwater the following day-it happened yet
again but at idle speed.
Did some "googling" and found a number of similar comments from American
websites-which seemed to indicate that this happens to these engines if
the outside air temperature is below 40F. (It was below freezing on
Sunday and Monday when I had the problems)
Whilst I hope I dont have to use the engine very often in those
temperatures-it was slightly frustrating to say the least.
Any other owners of this engine type had this problem or any do any of
you engine experts have any advice ?
I have e mailed Evinrude/Bombardier in this country but so far no
response from them.



Unhappy maintenance free ????.
Hi moray , ime running a 90hp evinrude etech and have not suffered this
problem as yet but was making for home one day when the oil warning
light come on due to oil level being low and as you say the revs dropped
to tick over (bit surprised at 40 knots) i limped home and replaced the
oil for the next trip. i havnt used it in sub zero temperatures yet but
will post any problems that i get - cheers for the thread i thought
these engines were infallible , just goes to show anything mechanical
can and will develop a fault eventually - wilson.


Hi Wilson 17 thanks for your reply. Since my original posting I have had
this reply from Bombardier UK. Which may be usefull to other users.

"It seems like you need the Extreme XD100 oil which rated down to minus
17 degrees centigrade. The label on the front of the oil bottle should
have ‘Temperature EXTREME Formula’ written just under the Evinrude sign.
The standard XD100 is perfectly OK for summer use or temperatures over
5C. On the earlier model engines there was also an upgrade the Engine
Management Module to make it less sensitive to slow oil pulses in cold
weather. Your dealer will be able to advise you if this is required."

I have to say I wasnt aware of a special oil for low temperatures! I
wonder just how much more it costs than the standard XD100-which is in
itself very expensive-even though it uses very little compared to
standard oil.
I think I might just avoid fishing in those temperatures!! I did keep
asking myself what am I doing here!
Moray is offline Reply With Quote


DFI is not a new technology just like 4 strokes are'nt. My VW Jetta has
a Direct injected Turbo diesel in it and she runs flawlessly and so do
the other TDI diesels(50+mpg. Where I think DFI is flawed is in the 2
stroke arena. Reason being if my TDI VW runs lean on an injector due to
a computer malfunction or clogged injector, etc, my engine will lose
power, I will notice it, a check engine or injector light will flash and
I will have it serviced, fixed, and back on the road with no issues(nice
run on sentence huh). If the same thing happens on a 2 stroke at higher
rpms, by the time the buzzer goes off and you yank the throttle back,
you just scored the cylinders because lean condition means lack of oil.
Lack of oil means BOOM! If a DFI motor runs the way it should, I BELIEVE
it would be the best outboard made. Problem is life aint perfect. A
slight mistake on an internal oiling engine is no biggie, on a 2 stroke
it means BOOM!

Sure DFI is more powerful, slightly lighter and almost as quiet and fuel
efficient, but I am not convinced yet. Am I convinced on 4 strokes? So
far so good from what I hear out there, don't know anyone who is not
satisfied. EVERYONE I know with a DFI outboard(except Sal and another
friend who only has 30 hours on his HPDI) has said he will not buy
another one.....yet.

If I was buying new(150hp+) it would be a HARD toss-up between a new
FICHT(e-stroke whatever)and a 4 stroke. Warranty and price would move me
one way or the other on the fence. I would not buy a conventional 2
stroke over 70hp just because they burn too much darn fuel. My 70 4
stroke burns 60+% less fuel than my 88spl at the same cruise speed. Top
end is within 3mph so........


You are, indeed, correct in pointing out that something's amiss: Your
buddy's Scout must have a problem. The F225 on the Grady White
Tournament 225 gets about four MPG at 3,900 RPM's doing 29 MPH.

It is good to know that you have had success with your engine (as
reflected in your emphatic responses), but I shall not embrace DFI
technology until the engines are consistently reliable.

A few of my colleagues would be happy to discuss blown DFI two-stroke
powerheads with you, one of whom had both of his 200 Optimax engines
blow and one whose 225 Ficht blew. Another friend's HPDI fouls plugs so
ofen that he carries a spare set of plugs with him. The body of evidence
(both anecdotal and in the boating literature) suggesting faulty
reliability in DFI outboards is growing. Turning a blind eye can be
expensive.

With the estimated cost of a 2003 F225 hovering around $14,500 (and
considering the time value of money) where did you find a new 150HP
outboard in 1991 for $2,500?

PM

Fear not K will be vindicated yet again................ seriously I feel
a little bad this time because the dealers haven't abused me & called me
names in a failed attempt to shut me up ...... yet, but hey I can make
up for last time!!!:-) What hoot!!!

The FICHT isnt something I'd buy, but what about the Etec? It runs
extra lean at idel but seems to be holding up well ... Is that
something one can buy without being worried? Take in mind my optimax
has been holding up well too. It seems like they have the DFI
technology under control?

Matt

Thats a dent in the track record

I havent been able to find much about the Etec online .... Would you
mind letting me know where to look for to gather more info?

Of course the guy talking about the comparison with his TDI doesnt make
any sense, the low temp issue doesnt look too serious but the Kabooms
are concerning ..

Are those little pains of a new product or a fundamental issue?

IF the Etec works it looks like THE motor for me ... light, quiet,
powerful, no maintenance ... What more can the boaters heart desire?
(Except no kabooms of course ..)

Matt

wrote:
Thats a dent in the track record

I havent been able to find much about the Etec online .... Would you
mind letting me know where to look for to gather more info?

Of course the guy talking about the comparison with his TDI doesnt make
any sense, the low temp issue doesnt look too serious but the Kabooms
are concerning ..

Are those little pains of a new product or a fundamental issue?

IF the Etec works it looks like THE motor for me ... light, quiet,
powerful, no maintenance ... What more can the boaters heart desire?
(Except no kabooms of course ..)

Matt


The "Kabooms" are a risk with any engine run lean at power & the risk is
aggravated if the injection pressure (therefore atomisation) is low.

Even at it's worst I guess there were 4 in 5 Ficht owners happy?? well
except their boats had become worthless:-) However a 1 in 5 risk is way
too high given they cost as much as a medium sized car. A 1 in 500 risk
is still too high for a consumer marketed OB engine.

As for the E-Tecs, all I can say is that when the Fichts were dying it
was exactly & I do mean exactly the same as right now; the reports were
coming in yet scared owners wouldn't/couldn't believe it & brain dead
liars like Krause even joined the dealers in fabricating stories to
support the marketing of failing engines.

Right up to about 2 weeks before OMC officially went under the dealers
were still here spruiking their BS about them, attacking anyone who was
trying to warn people of the dangers & essentially just telling lies.

The reason the dealers were so excited about selling defective engines
came out at the OMC bankruptcy hearings when it was finally
revealed/confirmed that the dealers were getting over 30% markup (total
of kickbacks & rebates) to sell sell sell known defective Ficht

Of course like all cowardly dealer liars they just went away after OMC
rolled over despite people all but begging for help or even the most
basic of info in this NG, the very same scum that had induced people to
buy their defective engines in the first place.

They're not worth the risk & if anyone who has had 1 in 3 fail says
otherwise ask yourself why they would be so silly as to take that risk
again & at full tilt no less:-) More money than brains?? yes obviously,
but at this rate pretty soon they'll have no money nor brains.


K