Wow - this is amazing.
Terry, my analogy below was bad as it turns out. You might have a
better chance getting the pig to sing.....

Billy, could you PLEASE give us all some idea of where you might be so I
can NEVER go there?

Matt Colie - See Prior sig

Bill McKee wrote:
"next.victim" wrote in message
...

Bill McKee wrote:

"Matt Colie" wrote in message
...


Terry,
Very well said, but save your bandwidth. (Teaching a pig to sing and
such.)

Billy believes he was the right(maybe the requirement) to take any vessel
anywhere close aboard at flank speed. He is convinced that, if a vessel
has any machinery onboard, it does not qualify as a vessel undersail
regardless of the situation. He has proven he is not capable of
interpreting Colregs the same way as the OMI to whom I wrote the pages of
my license examinations.

I just wish he had said where he is so we could all avoid him.

Matt Colie - See prior sigs - I'm tired of this.



Terry Spragg wrote:


at least it was on topic!
NI!

Terry K


Bill McKee wrote:
Was on topic, but sailboats can not turn as wanted, the rest of the
world be damned. Bill McKee wrote:


Throttle off, no control, turning radius about a boat length.



Well, if you put it that way, it sounds like it should be right, and
logically, it is exactly correct, and if you read what you wrote,
you may see why it is so funny, that you bite your own tail. Sailboats
can not just turn, (or not turn,) as wanted. They are overpowered by
the wind all the time. The wind blows sailboats around like leaves
sometimes. As a mariner, you are expected to understand that, anticipate
it, and survive the hazards anyway.

Overtaking vessels must keep clear, sail or power. If they cannot,
they must slow down to a safe speed, even stop. Chewy beans.

You are expected and required to understand sail and power, and all
their constraints, or stay home.

Sailboats flop about out of control from time to time, motor on or
off, whenever the sails are up and the wind is alive, it is the
nature of the game: 15 HP auxiliary engines, thousand HP wild winds,
waves, sails, ropes, winches, flying fish, nature, etc, etc. You
understand, don't you? If not, you should not be in command on the
water.

What you don't seem to grasp is that no one except possibly you,
would purposely hit someone with a car or boat, just because they were
****ed off and somehow surmise that they are in the right, have the
right of way, and therefore, have a license to kill anyone who does not
stay out of your way, regardless.

This attitude you seemingly cherish may well cause you to spend the
latter years of your life locked in a cell being raped by real nasty
*******s with really big muscles and real nasty diseases. On the
evidence you provide, I would bet two cents you are prettier than you
are smart.

On the water, all the regulations in the world are there to settle
lawsuits after damages occur, and to impress on mariners that collisions
are to be avoided by any means, at all costs, regardless of the causes.
The reason why should be obvious. A collision at sea can ruin your whole
life. Like being bitten by a dog, it can change your attitude forever,
the hard way.

Don't feel too bad, even real sea captains sometimes hit other
ships, and blow cities like Halifax all to hell, because they make
little mistakes early on, and suddenly find they cannot avoid the
other guy's similar idiocy. We are all human, right?

'Course, those arrogant guys usually end up losing their nice cushy
seat at the Captain's table, and deservedly so. Some commit suicide
once their role in disaster becomes obvious. These men have
consciences, at least. Some of their very cushy seats disappear below
the titanic icy waves as they sit in them, along with thousands of their
passengers.

Icebergs and the wind just don't care. It is left to us to be
responsible, considerate, cautious and courteous. Some grow up
earlier than others. Some never make it.

Fair winds to you, and the best of luck, for all our sakes. Your
skills, knowledge and attitude probably won't help you, your passengers,
or locals much. Old sailors would treat you like a rock awash, if you
would just keep still.

Otherwise, we fear for you.

Terry K



Bite Me. propulsion motor on, equal power boat.

Mr. McKee,

I would be forced to determine that what has previously been said is
completely accurate, and given this case, I would have to find a judgement
against you.

Please go to:

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navru...les/Rule03.htm

below is exerted from the above:
For the purpose of these Rules and this Chapter [Inld], except where the
context otherwise requires:

(a) The word "vessel" includes every description of watercraft,
including non-displacement craft, WIG craft [Intl], and seaplanes, used or
capable of being used as a means of transportation on water.

(b) The term "power-driven vessel" means any vessel propelled by
machinery.

(c) The term "sailing vessel" means any vessel under sail provided
that propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used.
Unquote-

I find the above parts b & c to be clear and compelling. In the case of
being used, the only interpretation possible for “propelling machinery”
would be the case that said machinery was actually providing the driving
force to propel said vessel.

I my have no authority here, but I strongly recommend that you deal with
your issues as you have presented yourself to be a clear and present
hazzard as the operator of a vessel underpower.

Name withheld by authors request


And your motor is not propelling machinery?

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
ink.net...
(b) The term "power-driven vessel" means any vessel propelled by
machinery.

And your motor is not propelling machinery?

Try reading (b) again.


And your motor is not propelling machinery? I guess a power boat like mine
is not a power boat when the motor is turned off or not in gear. So you hit
a drift fishing "Power boat" who has his motor off or in not in gear, who is
at fault.

"Matt Colie" wrote in message
...
Wow - this is amazing.
Terry, my analogy below was bad as it turns out. You might have a better
chance getting the pig to sing.....

Billy, could you PLEASE give us all some idea of where you might be so I
can NEVER go there?

Matt Colie - See Prior sig

Bill McKee wrote:
"next.victim" wrote in message
...

Bill McKee wrote:

"Matt Colie" wrote in message
...


Terry,
Very well said, but save your bandwidth. (Teaching a pig to sing and
such.)

Billy believes he was the right(maybe the requirement) to take any
vessel anywhere close aboard at flank speed. He is convinced that, if
a vessel has any machinery onboard, it does not qualify as a vessel
undersail regardless of the situation. He has proven he is not capable
of interpreting Colregs the same way as the OMI to whom I wrote the
pages of my license examinations.

I just wish he had said where he is so we could all avoid him.

Matt Colie - See prior sigs - I'm tired of this.



Terry Spragg wrote:


at least it was on topic!
NI!

Terry K


Bill McKee wrote:
Was on topic, but sailboats can not turn as wanted, the rest of the
world be damned. Bill McKee wrote:


Throttle off, no control, turning radius about a boat length.



Well, if you put it that way, it sounds like it should be right, and
logically, it is exactly correct, and if you read what you wrote,
you may see why it is so funny, that you bite your own tail. Sailboats
can not just turn, (or not turn,) as wanted. They are overpowered by
the wind all the time. The wind blows sailboats around like leaves
sometimes. As a mariner, you are expected to understand that,
anticipate it, and survive the hazards anyway.

Overtaking vessels must keep clear, sail or power. If they cannot,
they must slow down to a safe speed, even stop. Chewy beans.

You are expected and required to understand sail and power, and all
their constraints, or stay home.

Sailboats flop about out of control from time to time, motor on or
off, whenever the sails are up and the wind is alive, it is the
nature of the game: 15 HP auxiliary engines, thousand HP wild winds,
waves, sails, ropes, winches, flying fish, nature, etc, etc. You
understand, don't you? If not, you should not be in command on the
water.

What you don't seem to grasp is that no one except possibly you,
would purposely hit someone with a car or boat, just because they were
****ed off and somehow surmise that they are in the right, have the
right of way, and therefore, have a license to kill anyone who does
not stay out of your way, regardless.

This attitude you seemingly cherish may well cause you to spend the
latter years of your life locked in a cell being raped by real nasty
*******s with really big muscles and real nasty diseases. On the
evidence you provide, I would bet two cents you are prettier than you
are smart.

On the water, all the regulations in the world are there to settle
lawsuits after damages occur, and to impress on mariners that
collisions are to be avoided by any means, at all costs, regardless of
the causes. The reason why should be obvious. A collision at sea can
ruin your whole life. Like being bitten by a dog, it can change your
attitude forever, the hard way.

Don't feel too bad, even real sea captains sometimes hit other
ships, and blow cities like Halifax all to hell, because they make
little mistakes early on, and suddenly find they cannot avoid the
other guy's similar idiocy. We are all human, right?

'Course, those arrogant guys usually end up losing their nice cushy
seat at the Captain's table, and deservedly so. Some commit suicide
once their role in disaster becomes obvious. These men have
consciences, at least. Some of their very cushy seats disappear below
the titanic icy waves as they sit in them, along with thousands of
their passengers.

Icebergs and the wind just don't care. It is left to us to be
responsible, considerate, cautious and courteous. Some grow up
earlier than others. Some never make it.

Fair winds to you, and the best of luck, for all our sakes. Your
skills, knowledge and attitude probably won't help you, your
passengers, or locals much. Old sailors would treat you like a rock
awash, if you would just keep still.

Otherwise, we fear for you.

Terry K



Bite Me. propulsion motor on, equal power boat.

Mr. McKee,

I would be forced to determine that what has previously been said is
completely accurate, and given this case, I would have to find a
judgement against you.

Please go to:

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navru...les/Rule03.htm

below is exerted from the above:
For the purpose of these Rules and this Chapter [Inld], except where the
context otherwise requires:

(a) The word "vessel" includes every description of watercraft,
including non-displacement craft, WIG craft [Intl], and seaplanes, used
or capable of being used as a means of transportation on water.

(b) The term "power-driven vessel" means any vessel propelled by
machinery.

(c) The term "sailing vessel" means any vessel under sail provided
that propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used.
Unquote-

I find the above parts b & c to be clear and compelling. In the case of
being used, the only interpretation possible for “propelling machinery”
would be the case that said machinery was actually providing the driving
force to propel said vessel.

I my have no authority here, but I strongly recommend that you deal with
your issues as you have presented yourself to be a clear and present
hazzard as the operator of a vessel underpower.

Name withheld by authors request


And your motor is not propelling machinery?

So my "power boat" is not a power boat for rules when the motor is turned
off and I am drifting?

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
nk.net...
So my "power boat" is not a power boat for rules when the motor is turned
off and I am drifting?

Bill, have you read the Collision Regulations and do you not understand
them? Have you read the correct terminology that is fully explained in
these regulations? If not, why don't you get a copy of them and read
them from cover to cover so that you are better informed before you write
such questions as you wrote above. Everything that you are asking is fully
explained in the Collision Regulations. For example, your question that
you are now asking is explained in Rule 3 General Definitions (a)

Got that Bill?

Jim C.

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
ink.net...
And your motor is not propelling machinery? I guess a power boat like
mine
is not a power boat when the motor is turned off or not in gear. So you
hit
a drift fishing "Power boat" who has his motor off or in not in gear, who
is
at fault.

Bill, like I said before, you need to read the Collision Regulations before
you ask dumb questions like you are asking. All of the answers for your
questions can be found in the Collision Regulations. You, perhaps, should
take a Power Squadron course so that they can help you understand how to
read the regulations so that your questions don't even need to be asked.
Well, anyway Bill, read Rule 18 for the answer to your question. If you
don't understand rule 18, then perhaps you might give up boating and just
watch it on TV.

Jim C.

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
ink.net...

And your motor is not propelling machinery?


No, Bill, a motor is not propelling machinery, nor is a propeller,
propelling machinery, but used together,
they become propelling machinery.
Just for kicks, let's get a bit more complicated.
The only way you can be certain (reasonably) under the Rules, that a sail
vessel is also being powered by some mechanical means
other than the sails, is, in daylight, a cone, apex down; at night, she's
lit as a power driven vessel; or radio communications.
Barring any of those (excluding some sailboat making 10k in a 1k breeze...
possible exceptions noted) you should consider the sailboat
just that ..... a sailboat, and I send you back to rule 2.

otn

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
nk.net...



So my "power boat" is not a power boat for rules when the motor is turned
off and I am drifting?

Technically correct, but, once again I send you to rule 2

otn

"Jim Carter" wrote in message
.. .

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
nk.net...
So my "power boat" is not a power boat for rules when the motor is turned
off and I am drifting?

Bill, have you read the Collision Regulations and do you not understand
them? Have you read the correct terminology that is fully explained in
these regulations? If not, why don't you get a copy of them and read
them from cover to cover so that you are better informed before you write
such questions as you wrote above. Everything that you are asking is
fully
explained in the Collision Regulations. For example, your question that
you are now asking is explained in Rule 3 General Definitions (a)

Got that Bill?

Jim C.



Can you answer my question? Is a power boat a power boat with the engine
off or in neutral?

Got that Jim?

"otnmbrd" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
ink.net...

And your motor is not propelling machinery?


No, Bill, a motor is not propelling machinery, nor is a propeller,
propelling machinery, but used together,
they become propelling machinery.
Just for kicks, let's get a bit more complicated.
The only way you can be certain (reasonably) under the Rules, that a sail
vessel is also being powered by some mechanical means
other than the sails, is, in daylight, a cone, apex down; at night, she's
lit as a power driven vessel; or radio communications.
Barring any of those (excluding some sailboat making 10k in a 1k breeze...
possible exceptions noted) you should consider the sailboat
just that ..... a sailboat, and I send you back to rule 2.

otn


And a stupid guy who is motoring with his sails up is going to run day
signals or lights? LOL!

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
ink.net...
Can you answer my question? Is a power boat a power boat with the engine
off or in neutral?

Got that Jim?

How old are you Bill? Are you still in grade school? Do you have trouble
reading? Are you a little bit stupid?
Do you have a copy of the Collision Regulations in front of you so you can
actually read them? If you do, try this.
Go to the page where is shows "Rule 3". Then read section (a) Got
that Bill? Tell me what is written there. Then tell me if you
understand what that means. Now go to section (b), and tell me what you see
in this section. Do you understand what this means? Finally, go to
section (c) and read this. Understand what you have just read and can you
explain it to your simple brain? If not, then go take a safe boating
course, because, you need one.

Jim C.