Peter,
Please do not encourage him. Trying to teach a pig to sing.....
He has only just started to read Colregs and then only the parts he
wants. Just keep him away from the legislators or else he will start
calling for direction signals (that he probably does not use in his pick
up) and brake lights (how we get brakes is yet to be determined).
If you think people like this are a not to be carefully watched over by
a competent adult, remember that in several states it is now non-lawful
to be on the foredeck underway.
Matt Colie A.Sloop "Bonne Ide'e"
Lifelong Waterman, Licnesed Mariner and Congenital Sailor

Roger Derby wrote:
Whether you are wrong in the passing situation is debatable. What is not
debatable is the alienation you've achieved on this boat building
group/list.

That said, you might check some of the many books on maritime law. It's
quite different from that administered on land. Among other things, it
assigns blame (costs) as a function of the degree of guilt. It's not the
winner take all game played on land.

I'm surprised no one has brought up the mandatory sound signals involved in
a crossing (including overtaking) situation. Until communications are
established, one should assume nothing about the "burdened" vessel.

How does the old Burma Shave jingle go? "He was right, dead right as he
sped along. Now he's just as dead as if he'd been wrong."

Roger

http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
m...

In article . net, Bill
McKee wrote:


"Larry" wrote in message
...

Jeff wrote in
news:sLmdnZfD9Kl0rPHenZ2dnUVZ_tidnZ2d@comcast .com:


proper to pass within 15 feet of boats doing 25 MPH shouldn't be out
there.


It's 50 ft in South Carolina...just like for a dock. 200' from the
marina.

--
Larry

I guess you never pass on a 2 lane road. Both oncoming and same
direction
traffic.

What does this have to your dangerous overtaking practice? Nothing.

It's damn obvious that you don't understand the Colregs and have no
intention of accepting that you are *wrong*.

PDW

I was not wrong for several reasons. Number one is the other boat was
also a powerboat. Did not matter if it had sails up or not, it had its
motor running. And the road analogy is the same as ColRegs require. You
have to not make unsafe turns. If I am passing, the other boat has to
continue in the same direction. 17, a, i .

Harry Krause wrote:

Skipper wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:

I give all boats I encounter as wide a berth as possible, and I'm always
conscious of my wake. If I think I am close enough to rock some guy
anchored in a fishing boat or trolling, I slow down. I usually cut
across the stern of sailboats. It doesn't cost anything to be careful
and courteous out on the water.

If only you could practice that kind of courtesy in this NG, rather than
restricting it to your cyberboating.

Not to worry, Adolf; I won't be driving, walking, or boating through the
roadside ditches of Derby, Kansas, anytime soon, so you and your rubber
ducky are safe.

I chose not to believe you've regressed into this confused,
mean-spirited, hate-filled bigot you present. I prefer to remember you
as that ill-informed fellow we all knew a few years ago. Witnessing your
fading skills is heart wrenching, Krause. Would like to see you recover
and talk boats once again...unrealistic as that hope might be.

--
Skipper

"Jim Carter" wrote in message
...

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
nk.net...
Bill, lets make this real simple so that your little brain can absorb
this.

Under the official "Collision Regulations" which some people use the
misnomer "rules of the road" you will find a section called Schedule 1
(sections 3 & 4 ) Part A-General Rule 3 called "General Definitions"
Rule 3 part # ( c )
The term "sailing vessel" means any vessel under sail provided that the
propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used.


Bill, now is the time to get your brain in gear! Do you understand
what
was written in the Collision Regulations, that I have provided for you,
in
the above? Read it one more time! Notice that it does not mention
anything about the motor running. Notice that it is written
"propelling
machinery, if fitted, is not being used." Bill, do you comprehend
what
"propelling machinery" is? It is what drives the boat forward. The
propeller! Got that Bill? Do you understand it now. Get this in
your
mind. A "sailboat" can have it's engine running, for many different
reasons, and not be driving the "propelling machinery" which is the
clutch,
transmission, drive shaft, propeller., etc.,..

Jim C.

Do you understand that when the sailboats motor is running, it is in use.
Just because it is in neutral, does not negate that it is in use. You
better do a little case law research.

Bill, go back and read what is written in the Collision Regulations. I
have tried to make your feeble brain understand what is written, but you
are
too dense to comprehend the regulations. Admiralty Law, in this
definition of "sailing vessel" has been set by precedence. Period!
There
is no argument with set law! Did you get that Bill? If not, keep
rereading until you can comprehend.

Jim C.



So you figure the boat is a sailboat if the sails are up and the motor is
running in neutral? Bzzt! wrong.

"DSK" wrote in message
...
"P Fritz" not only made a boating post, but it actually makes some sense!


15 feet might be a little close but...

Oh really? Do you think that passing another boat only 15 feet away is
perfectly safe & normal? Especially when you have hundreds of yards, if
not miles, of open water to pass much further away?

...the wake that a power boat on plane produces is smaller and faster,
the
sailboat gets a quick nudge when the wake hits the hull.
...the wake of a power boat pushes running a what most people assume to
be
no-wake speed will bounce the sail boat around much harsher.

Which wake do you want to encounter?


That depends very much on the boat, the boater, and the surrounding
conditions. On open water I don't see any reason at all for a motorboat to
come with 15 feet of me. It's rude.


P Fritz wrote:
It also depends on the size and displacement of the boat. A small ski
type
boat is going to throw up little wake on plane compared to a 35 ft
cruiser.


You got that right. It doesn't even have to be 35 feet... many planing
cuddy boats, especially deep-vee hulls, leave a steep & ugly wake at full
throttle. Yet the drivers are convinced that they are doing you a favor by
passing close at full speed instead of slowing down.

ALL boaters should remember that they are responsible... and for a
motorboat, the wake is part of that responsibility. You are as much
responsible for the wake made by your boat as you would be for a bullet
you fired from a gun.

Fair Skies
Doug King


Then why do sailboats come within 15' of a boat drift fishing? Or even
anchored?

"Don White" wrote in message
...
Jim Carter wrote:


Bill, go back and read what is written in the Collision Regulations. I
have tried to make your feeble brain understand what is written, but you
are
too dense to comprehend the regulations. Admiralty Law, in this
definition of "sailing vessel" has been set by precedence. Period!
There
is no argument with set law! Did you get that Bill? If not, keep
rereading until you can comprehend.

Jim C.


Maybe we should take a collection and send Bill to a Power Squadron
course.
I'm sure his fellow boaters would thank us.

Motor running, power boat. How is that sailboat going to prove he did not
have the motor in gear, or that any forward motion was not from the
propeller? In other words, under your definition, the sailboat kicks the
tranny into neutral, just before he hits another boat without sails. He is
not responsible as he was a sailboat? Better not try it.

Bill McKee wrote:
So you figure the boat is a sailboat if the sails are up and the motor is
running in neutral? Bzzt! wrong.



I think I see where Bill M gets his wrong idea

Here
http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknow...ing/6_2_b1.htm

it says "Note: when a sailboat has its motor running, it is considered a
power driven vessel"

But that is not correct. If you look almost anywhere else

https://www.boater101.com/Course/doc...Manual2004.pdf

http://www.cruising.ca/docs/colreg.html
"A sailboat propelled by machinery is a Motorboat (including motorsailing)."

http://www.auxetrain.org/colregs.html
"(b) The term "power driven vessel" means any vessel propelled by machinery.

(c) The term "sailing vessel" means any vessel under sail provided that
propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used."

And this is either the official wording or pretty darn close.

http://www.boats.com/reeds/jsp/rn_ch_1_i_a.jsp#a5

http://www.dirauxwest.org/NavRules/colregs.htm


Now pay attention... a power vessel is propelled by machinery. In other
words, engine running, in gear. A sailing vessel may be "using" her
engine for ballast if the thing hasn't run in 10 years, but it is NOT
propelling the boat.

In other words, if the engine of a sailboat is propelling the vessel,
whether her sails are up or not, she is a power vessel with regard to
the ColRegs. If the engine is running but out of gear, charging the
batteries, heating the water for a shower, making a smokescreen... if
the engine is not propelling the boat, in either forward or reverse, it
is a sailing vessel.

See
http://www.ansa.org/training/ROR-200...planations.pdf

You're welcome.

Doug King

PS I really don't expect any of the hard-core motorheads to admit
they're wrong, they never do. But that doesn't change the facts & I hope
they don't kill somebody trying to prove it.

Bill McKee wrote:
Then why do sailboats come within 15' of a boat drift fishing? Or even
anchored?


When was the last time a sailboat did so at 20+ knots? When was the last
time a sailboat made a large wake too close to another boat? Obviously
part of your problem is resentment against sailboats.

Personally, as a curtesy I keep away from boats that are fishing. For
one thing, I don't like monofilament wrapped around my keel or rudder.
If our course is such that I have a reason to pass them close, like say
for example they pulled to a stop and thew lines out right in front of
me (which has happened dozens of times) then I will try to pass them to
leeward where the lines are not.

I have even given up a place in a race once or twice to give reasonable
passing distance for fishing boats, although I know a number of other
racers are far less curteous.

Now what do you suggest about fishermen who think that a racing mark
makes a handy place to tie up & fish a while, then scream bloody murder
at the sailboats as they zip by very close (6" is about right).

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Bill McKee wrote:
So you figure the boat is a sailboat if the sails are up and the motor
is
running in neutral? Bzzt! wrong.



I think I see where Bill M gets his wrong idea

Here
http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknow...ing/6_2_b1.htm

it says "Note: when a sailboat has its motor running, it is considered a
power driven vessel"

But that is not correct. If you look almost anywhere else

https://www.boater101.com/Course/doc...Manual2004.pdf

http://www.cruising.ca/docs/colreg.html
"A sailboat propelled by machinery is a Motorboat (including
motorsailing)."

http://www.auxetrain.org/colregs.html
"(b) The term "power driven vessel" means any vessel propelled by
machinery.

(c) The term "sailing vessel" means any vessel under sail provided that
propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used."

And this is either the official wording or pretty darn close.

http://www.boats.com/reeds/jsp/rn_ch_1_i_a.jsp#a5

http://www.dirauxwest.org/NavRules/colregs.htm


Now pay attention... a power vessel is propelled by machinery. In other
words, engine running, in gear. A sailing vessel may be "using" her
engine for ballast if the thing hasn't run in 10 years, but it is NOT
propelling the boat.

In other words, if the engine of a sailboat is propelling the vessel,
whether her sails are up or not, she is a power vessel with regard to
the ColRegs. If the engine is running but out of gear, charging the
batteries, heating the water for a shower, making a smokescreen... if
the engine is not propelling the boat, in either forward or reverse, it
is a sailing vessel.

See
http://www.ansa.org/training/ROR-200...planations.pdf

You're welcome.

Doug King

PS I really don't expect any of the hard-core motorheads to admit
they're wrong, they never do. But that doesn't change the facts & I hope
they don't kill somebody trying to prove it.

Thanks Doug. I just don't understand how Bill could not be able to
understand the Collision Regulations. Perhaps he has dyslexia. That
would explain his lack of comprehension.

Jim C.

"Bill McKee" wrote in message news:zZ6df.7758
So you figure the boat is a sailboat if the sails are up and the motor is
running in neutral? Bzzt! wrong.


Bill, please cite the regulation where I am wrong.

Jim C.

The motor is running. The boater can easily put it in gear. Therefore
motor boat. Are you trying to say that a "powerboat" that has his engine
off is not a powerboat? Better look futher in to boatsafe.

"Jim Carter" wrote in message
...

"Bill McKee" wrote in message news:zZ6df.7758
So you figure the boat is a sailboat if the sails are up and the motor is
running in neutral? Bzzt! wrong.


Bill, please cite the regulation where I am wrong.

Jim C.