"NOYB" wrote in message
news

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
John H wrote:

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 10:52:59 -0400, Harry Krause

wrote:


Gould 0738 wrote:



6) There is now an oversupply of college educated workers. Send your
kids to
trade school. When the toilet clogs up, nobody is going to call a
plumber from
India. :-)


Several times a year, I get asked about building trades jobs for high
school graduates. I always suggest getting into a solid union
apprenticeship program that leads to a journeyman's card in one of the
skilled trades...like plumbing or electrical. Union electricians in
the
SF area are doing being than $70 an hour in the package, and have more
work than they can handle, and that will increase as California
toughens
its standards for licensed tradesworkers.


If the economy is at rock bottom, unemployment is sky high, and no one
can find
work because Bush has personally sent all the jobs, including
manufacturing, to
India, then how can "...more work than they can handle..." be true?

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!


I'm sure you won't get this, but during much of the Bush recession, the
stock market was tanked, too. Investors looking for a decent return
plowed kazillions of dollars into commercial construction projects in
many markets..they had to do something with the money they yanked out of
the market...and a lot of it found its way into large-scale commercial
construction.

Although I'd hesitate to call it the "Bush recession" (since all economic
indicators showed a downward trend beginning in mid-2000), I'll agree with
the basic premise of your argument...and then expand upon it just a bit.
People also took advantage of the low interest rates, and the tax
incentives
and rebates from the Bush tax cut to invest in capital.

Actually, the construction industry lags behind the rest of the
economy......it takes upwards of 2-3 years a
fter conception of a project to actual start of construction.......much of
it due to guvmint (over) regulation. By the time you get through the
approval process, you have so much money invested, and the approvals have an
expiration date, that it often makes more sense to continue with the
construction and let the building sit, recovering the money once the econmy
picks up, rather tha letting all the money already invested go to waste.

'Cause when life is the ****z you gotta flush more often?.... :-)

I wasn't talking about plumbers.

Well then, do you have any idea just how many electricians it's gonna take to
wire up that "light at the end of the tunnel"?

I bought a snake, removed the toilet, snaked the drain, and my old toilet
works fine now. Cost? Less than $30 for one wax rim and a Wal-Mart toilet
snake...

See there? All that expensive dental school paid off. You gained access to the
cavity, cleaned out the rotten debris, and sealed it all back up nice and
proper. :-)

You could have learned all that as an apprentice plumber, billed more for the
first half hour, and had lower overhead to boot.

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
I bought a snake, removed the toilet, snaked the drain, and my old toilet
works fine now. Cost? Less than $30 for one wax rim and a Wal-Mart
toilet
snake...

See there? All that expensive dental school paid off. You gained access to
the
cavity, cleaned out the rotten debris, and sealed it all back up nice and
proper. :-)

It was more analogous to a root canal...and I hate doing root canals.


You could have learned all that as an apprentice plumber, billed more for
the
first half hour, and had lower overhead to boot.

No kidding. But my borrowing power at the bank is a lot better than a
plumber's. ;-)

You are supposedly in the education field, John, is this discussion
about economics *that* far above your head, or are you truly blinded to
any fact which does not support Bush/Cheney's propaganda?

Meanwhile, what do you have to say about the implications of interest
rates versus the supposedly booming economy?

DSK

John H wrote:
I am thrilled that all your fellow graduates found work. Now, what was the
unemployment rate then?

Let's just say that 1- you have a job (or at least claim to) and I have
a job, so the verifiable employment rate between us is 100%. But there
are lots of others who aren't so lucky.

Of course, this is a transparent attempt on your part to cheerlead for
Bush/Cheney by pointing out HOW LOW THE (manipulated) UNEMPLOYMENT RATE
IS (yay!!). But that dog won't hunt. The difference between the 1996
unemployment rate (lots of jobs at a high salary) and 2004 unemployment
rates (few if any jobs, and those at low salary) is obvious.


I refinanced my home one year ago at 5.125% (with no points). My daughter
locked in at 6.3% last month. Today the rates are 6.5% (all with no points). I
would consider that an upward trend, wouldn't you?

Hmmm... your daughter is getting ripped off (most likely by your fellow
Republicans).

http://www.nfsn.com/library/prime.htm

The prime rate hasn't budged upward, and the fed has dropped the fund
rates, and bond rates (paid by businesses seeking to expand) are at
historic lows.

It should be obvious to even you and NOBBY that there is a difference
between consumers borrowing at profit to lenders, and businesses
borrowing to increase production for increased profits. OTOH the fact
that somebody is paying slightly higher interest rates indicates some
increase in demand... unless it's a local monopoly (banks around here
aren't charging that much AFAIK).

DSK

Harry Krause wrote in message ...
DSK wrote:
John H wrote:

So the unemployment rate was zero at the time you graduated?


Did I say that? No, here is what I said: "The class before mine was 85%
recruited before graduation and 100% employed in the field. AFAIK that
was the peak." This was speaking of undergrad engineers, specificially
BSME grads from a well regarded university. I wouldn't be surprised if
the engineering class at Wottsamatta U. did not fare so well.

You are supposedly in the education field, John, is this discussion
about economics *that* far above your head, or are you truly blinded to
any fact which does not support Bush/Cheney's propaganda?

Meanwhile, what do you have to say about the implications of interest
rates versus the supposedly booming economy?

DSK



Herring is a substitute teacher. Period.

Well, that and person with a penchant for child pornography....

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 12:22:39 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

John H wrote:
On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 11:39:39 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:


John H wrote:


On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 10:52:59 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:



Gould 0738 wrote:




6) There is now an oversupply of college educated workers. Send your kids to
trade school. When the toilet clogs up, nobody is going to call a plumber from
India. :-)


Several times a year, I get asked about building trades jobs for high
school graduates. I always suggest getting into a solid union
apprenticeship program that leads to a journeyman's card in one of the
skilled trades...like plumbing or electrical. Union electricians in the
SF area are doing being than $70 an hour in the package, and have more
work than they can handle, and that will increase as California toughens
its standards for licensed tradesworkers.


If the economy is at rock bottom, unemployment is sky high, and no one can find
work because Bush has personally sent all the jobs, including manufacturing, to
India, then how can "...more work than they can handle..." be true?

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!


I'm sure you won't get this, but during much of the Bush recession, the
stock market was tanked, too. Investors looking for a decent return
plowed kazillions of dollars into commercial construction projects in
many markets..they had to do something with the money they yanked out of
the market...and a lot of it found its way into large-scale commercial
construction.


Like what? Office buildings for non-existent occupants?

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

Let's make it easy on you, eh?

Been in downtown DC the last few years?

Been to Chinatown, or the area from 1st and Mass to just past the Arch?
Been around the arena where the pro basketball teams play?
Been on K Street?

Nope. Haven't lost anything down there. Get good chinese right close to home.

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
You are supposedly in the education field, John, is this discussion
about economics *that* far above your head, or are you truly blinded to
any fact which does not support Bush/Cheney's propaganda?

Meanwhile, what do you have to say about the implications of interest
rates versus the supposedly booming economy?

DSK

John H wrote:
I am thrilled that all your fellow graduates found work. Now, what was
the
unemployment rate then?

Let's just say that 1- you have a job (or at least claim to) and I have
a job, so the verifiable employment rate between us is 100%. But there
are lots of others who aren't so lucky.

Of course, this is a transparent attempt on your part to cheerlead for
Bush/Cheney by pointing out HOW LOW THE (manipulated) UNEMPLOYMENT RATE
IS (yay!!). But that dog won't hunt. The difference between the 1996
unemployment rate (lots of jobs at a high salary) and 2004 unemployment
rates (few if any jobs, and those at low salary) is obvious.


I refinanced my home one year ago at 5.125% (with no points). My
daughter
locked in at 6.3% last month. Today the rates are 6.5% (all with no
points). I
would consider that an upward trend, wouldn't you?

Hmmm... your daughter is getting ripped off (most likely by your fellow
Republicans).

http://www.nfsn.com/library/prime.htm

The prime rate hasn't budged upward, and the fed has dropped the fund
rates, and bond rates (paid by businesses seeking to expand) are at
historic lows.

It should be obvious to even you and NOBBY that there is a difference
between consumers borrowing at profit to lenders, and businesses
borrowing to increase production for increased profits. OTOH the fact
that somebody is paying slightly higher interest rates indicates some
increase in demand... unless it's a local monopoly (banks around here
aren't charging that much AFAIK).

Where's "around here"? Here's a look at the rates in the top 10 markets:

http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/mtg...p?prodtype=mtg

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 16:25:15 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:


"John H" wrote in message
news
On 07 Jun 2004 15:59:45 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

If the economy is at rock bottom, unemployment is sky high, and no one
can
find
work because Bush has personally sent all the jobs, including
manufacturing,
to
India, then how can "...more work than they can handle..." be true?

John H

'Cause when life is the ****z you gotta flush more often?.... :-)

I wasn't talking about plumbers. But, if the situation is as bad as many
say,
then it would seem like "Porta Jons" would be the business to be in. Hell,
I
can't even afford a plumber and my wife still has a job!


I had a plumber to my house for a "$49 minimum" house call. (As a dentist, I
charge $45 for an exam...and I have a lot higher overhead thanks to CDC and
OSHA regulations). Anyhow...he said I needed a new toilet. $250-300 for
the toilet and $250 to install it. $250 to install a toilet?!?!? It takes
a 1/2 hour, and the cost of supplies is less than $10. I paid him the $49
and showed him the door.

I bought a snake, removed the toilet, snaked the drain, and my old toilet
works fine now. Cost? Less than $30 for one wax rim and a Wal-Mart toilet
snake...and $49 paid to one crooked plumber to misdiagnose my problem.



Who was the plumber? New toilets can be had at Home Depot for around $50-75.

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

NOYB wrote:
Where's "around here"? Here's a look at the rates in the top 10 markets:

http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/mtg...p?prodtype=mtg

Interesting. Thanks for the link. Please note that the only rates quoted
with zero points were 1-year ARMs (a sucker bet IMHO), if John H's
daughter got a 15 year mortgage then she's doing just OK, if a 30 (the
way to go IMHO based on historical interest rates) then she's getting
ripped off.

BTW none of those places are near me... or for that matter, none of them
are in Florida which I'd assume to be a major market...

BTW2 if you want to know something about real economics (ie in the world
outide Bush/Cheney Fantasyland) try reading some of this
http://www.strom.clemson.edu/becker/...cs_primer.html
The title ain't so hot but the material is right on.

DSK