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add a rudder to a kayak?
On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 02:05:30 -0500, KMAN wrote:
in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/2/05 3:25 AM: On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 23:21:52 -0500, KMAN wrote: snip snip Hi Kman, I was glad to see your post, and had missed your presence in these parts recently, and I hoped that we had not hurt your feelings, and that you were still well. Who are you, and who is the "we" that would have hurt my feelings? (FYI, I don't ascribe to the notion that my feelings are subject to injury. My feelings are derived as a result of my own thinking). That would certainly explain the apparent lack of any injuries! As to the "we", that would be those of us who continue to post, or lurk in this NG, who miss your posting when you are off Kamanalizing elsewhere! As to the "you", you may have to do some reserch on that one yourself! I figure you have maybe been busy with your friend Keenan selling the tickets to some shindig up there in OTT, that is coming up soon. Sounds like a lot of fun! Is it a New Years celebration, or just a fund raiser for his charity work? Seems he has done this program in previous years. Is this your first year? Holy christ, what sort of cyberstalker are you? I had no idea what you were talking about and then realized that there is probably somewhere on the net a single post where I mentioned what I was planning to do on NYE, and from somewhere else you've found the first name of the guy who sells the tickets. Why do you know this? You are scary! Not in the sense that I fear you, but in the sense that you are a kook! No CS here, just checking out Google pushed links on the R.B.P. archive! I like to check out and lurk, where there is active posting going on, and came across a hot bed of activity in the OTT area. Seems one of the most active posters who lets it all hang out in the public slipstream is one - Kman! Turns out a friend of mine from years past is from that area, and I like to read his web posted paddling stories, and there seems to be a knowledgeable relationship between Kman and Keenan, who both also post on various OTT NG's. One of these years, I may even try to make it up to the Folbot Rideau Canal Flotilla that is held every year up there. Seems that a whole bunch of Folboters get together up there and explore the beautiful waterway. I have really appreciated Keenan's pictures, and envy him his access to so much beautiful country and waterways. I have spent some lurking time reading his stories. From previous contact, I knew that he sold ticket to some shindig that is supposedly the place to be on a particular night in OTT! I may have read that "single post" by you saying you were involved it this shindig, but now I could hardly tell you with out doing some serious googling, and that is time I don't need to spend. I suppose if there is anything to be learned in all this, is that a person needs to be careful what they post out here in the "Wild, Wild West" of the Usenet, since you never know who may read what you put down in cybercement for anyone to read, forever! Even one single post! Nothing particularly kookie about it. My Grand-MaMa said "Fools names, and Fools Faces, always end up in public places!" I think she was in particular refering to the writing on public bathroom walls. I suppose the usenet is like one big public wall! snip further weird blather filled with identity consusion (You snipped and I unsnipped) I am not sure what "identity consusion" is so I find it difficult to know how to respond other than as I responded above. I suspect that Kman and Keenan are familiar with each other, and seem to have gone to the same school of usenet posting, though he does seem to be a little faster on the draw! He probably does not have to worry so much about who he is, no identity confusion there, he knows who he is! If I caused you any identity confusion, I would just encourage you to think more about it! Anyway to the subject of this post, I will endorse what your friend Keenan says about his rudder time. At least as far as it appears from his website stories about paddling trips. All of the pictures show, to the best I can determine, that the rudders are there, but up. If you paddle together very much, I assume you probably follow suite. In as much as the use of a rudder on a kayak, was the main theme of this thread, I thought it was appropriate to resussitate the thread, off the OT personal ID confusion issues! I do not mean to ignore your issues, but to not bore others who may be reading this thread with an interest in the use of rudders on a kayak! Someone ask, about your basis of experience to comment regarding the use of a rudder on a kayak. Keenan's pictures indicate that though he has a rudder on his kayak, he does not deploy it. I do not know whether that is standard practice in the OTT region, or whether that is just his personal preference, which may or may not have anything to do with your preference of not using one either as you stated. Just a possible conclusion as stated from the following observations, about OTT posters! Of course you would not be able to use a rudder in some of the shallower streams, or risk having it torn off. Especially in the swifts and hell holes that you explored, and swam in! That was what a class III or IV? You would not want to do a wet exit and then have to self-rescue with a rudder in the way, as any of the WW specialist here would attest to. None of their play boats have rudders that I know of just for that reason. Using a seakayak in the narrows must be tricky to steer in fast water though, since I am sure they do not turn on a dime, as they say! Though you apparently have mastered the art having survived to write numerous stories. I also realize that some of the pictures are in big flat water, but again do not show a deployed rudder, so you must be accomplishing your turns with something other than a rudder! Unless of course you use them only during storms and rough weather when you are too busy for picture taking. Most all the pictures were taken on very placid water, beautiful, smooth, where you would not need a rudder to control a barge, and certainly not any tsunami conditions, or breaking surf, or storm surge. Do they have tsunami in OTT? As for myself, having started kayaking in a WW kayak on flat water, and found how frustrating that it is to go anywhere, though I did get a lot of bracing practice, I will continue to use my rudder on my bagboats. My Folbot and Klepper, are maybe more like the barge I mentioned. I figure I can always lean and brace to accomplish a turn, a rudder just makes it easier. Then it also allows me to hoist a sail, and sail along, taking a few paddle strokes now and then! A nice quiet form of motor sailing. Concerning Auto trans, I often drive 100 miles per day in traffic, and yeah it may use more gas, but then so does the AC unit, that I use to keep cool in rush hour parking lots! I don't hear any of the macho types saying they don't use their AC in summer! Or for that matter up in the cold north country, where you come from, saying they just turn off the auto heater, so as to toughen up against the cold! Actually I did see one picture where the rudder was deployed, but that was several years ago when the journal indicated you all had first started kayaking. I won't count that against you though, since I can't see that it is you in the bright yellow kayak. And besides since you had just started, you were probably under the impression as a newbie, that if you had a rudder, you were intended to use it. Especially since you had probably not mastered all the paddle and bracing stokes yet! Now if I could just figure out how to put a motor on my kayak! Oh yeah, I did try one this last summer, but that is another story! What does this have to do with standard vs auto transmission? Well like I said, Keenan is a little faster, and would be able to figure it out, so why don't you ask him! snip further weird blather filled with identity confusion RkyMtnHootOwl 0vQ I know who I am, no ID confusion here! If you are confused about who you are, think about it! again, RkyMtnHootOwl OvO |
add a rudder to a kayak?
in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at
wrote on 12/3/05 6:10 AM: On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 02:05:30 -0500, KMAN wrote: in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/2/05 3:25 AM: On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 23:21:52 -0500, KMAN wrote: snip snip Hi Kman, I was glad to see your post, and had missed your presence in these parts recently, and I hoped that we had not hurt your feelings, and that you were still well. Who are you, and who is the "we" that would have hurt my feelings? (FYI, I don't ascribe to the notion that my feelings are subject to injury. My feelings are derived as a result of my own thinking). That would certainly explain the apparent lack of any injuries! As to the "we", that would be those of us who continue to post, or lurk in this NG, who miss your posting when you are off Kamanalizing elsewhere! As to the "you", you may have to do some reserch on that one yourself! No thanks, I'm not a cyberstalking freak! I figure you have maybe been busy with your friend Keenan selling the tickets to some shindig up there in OTT, that is coming up soon. Sounds like a lot of fun! Is it a New Years celebration, or just a fund raiser for his charity work? Seems he has done this program in previous years. Is this your first year? Holy christ, what sort of cyberstalker are you? I had no idea what you were talking about and then realized that there is probably somewhere on the net a single post where I mentioned what I was planning to do on NYE, and from somewhere else you've found the first name of the guy who sells the tickets. Why do you know this? You are scary! Not in the sense that I fear you, but in the sense that you are a kook! No CS here, just checking out Google pushed links on the R.B.P. archive! I like to check out and lurk, where there is active posting going on, and came across a hot bed of activity in the OTT area. Seems one of the most active posters who lets it all hang out in the public slipstream is one - Kman! Turns out a friend of mine from years past is from that area, and I like to read his web posted paddling stories, and there seems to be a knowledgeable relationship between Kman and Keenan, who both also post on various OTT NG's. I haven't seen any Keenan posts on the ott. ng's. But I guess you would know, since knowing such things seems to be a twisted hobby of yours. One of these years, I may even try to make it up to the Folbot Rideau Canal Flotilla that is held every year up there. Seems that a whole bunch of Folboters get together up there and explore the beautiful waterway. I have really appreciated Keenan's pictures, and envy him his access to so much beautiful country and waterways. I have spent some lurking time reading his stories. Huhn. Well, that sounds harmless enough. From previous contact, I knew that he sold ticket to some shindig that is supposedly the place to be on a particular night in OTT! I may have read that "single post" by you saying you were involved it this shindig, but now I could hardly tell you with out doing some serious googling, and that is time I don't need to spend. Yes, clearly you are needed elsewhere. I suppose if there is anything to be learned in all this, is that a person needs to be careful what they post out here in the "Wild, Wild West" of the Usenet, since you never know who may read what you put down in cybercement for anyone to read, forever! Even one single post! Uh. I don't really think it's a problem that I replied to someone asking about people's plans for NYE. Is it disturbing that a freak like yourself goes around storing such information? Sure. Does that call for me to be more careful with my posts? I don't think so. Nothing particularly kookie about it. My Grand-MaMa said "Fools names, and Fools Faces, always end up in public places!" Sounds like your grand-mama was as big a freak as you! I think she was in particular refering to the writing on public bathroom walls. I suppose the usenet is like one big public wall! Wow, that's deep. You should write a book. Or perhaps become the high tech policy advisor to George Bush Jr. snip further weird blather filled with identity consusion (You snipped and I unsnipped) I am not sure what "identity consusion" is so I find it difficult to know how to respond other than as I responded above. I suspect that Kman and Keenan are familiar with each other, and seem to have gone to the same school of usenet posting, though he does seem to be a little faster on the draw! He probably does not have to worry so much about who he is, no identity confusion there, he knows who he is! If I caused you any identity confusion, I would just encourage you to think more about it! Did you smoke a full pipe of crack just prior to typing the paragraph above? Anyway to the subject of this post, I will endorse what your friend Keenan says about his rudder time. At least as far as it appears from his website stories about paddling trips. All of the pictures show, to the best I can determine, that the rudders are there, but up. If you paddle together very much, I assume you probably follow suite. In as much as the use of a rudder on a kayak, was the main theme of this thread, I thought it was appropriate to resussitate the thread, off the OT personal ID confusion issues! I do not mean to ignore your issues, but to not bore others who may be reading this thread with an interest in the use of rudders on a kayak! Someone ask, about your basis of experience to comment regarding the use of a rudder on a kayak. Keenan's pictures indicate that though he has a rudder on his kayak, he does not deploy it. Attempted translation, with less blather: You've looked at pictures of a kayak being paddled without a rudder. I do not know whether that is standard practice in the OTT region, or whether that is just his personal preference, which may or may not have anything to do with your preference of not using one either as you stated. Just a possible conclusion as stated from the following observations, about OTT posters! A great many kayaks are sold with a rudder attached. I have no idea what you are trying to say here. Of course you would not be able to use a rudder in some of the shallower streams, or risk having it torn off. Especially in the swifts and hell holes that you explored, and swam in! That was what a class III or IV? You would not want to do a wet exit and then have to self-rescue with a rudder in the way, as any of the WW specialist here would attest to. None of their play boats have rudders that I know of just for that reason. Using a seakayak in the narrows must be tricky to steer in fast water though, since I am sure they do not turn on a dime, as they say! Though you apparently have mastered the art having survived to write numerous stories. I also realize that some of the pictures are in big flat water, but again do not show a deployed rudder, so you must be accomplishing your turns with something other than a rudder! Unless of course you use them only during storms and rough weather when you are too busy for picture taking. Most all the pictures were taken on very placid water, beautiful, smooth, where you would not need a rudder to control a barge, and certainly not any tsunami conditions, or breaking surf, or storm surge. Do they have tsunami in OTT? As for myself, having started kayaking in a WW kayak on flat water, and found how frustrating that it is to go anywhere, though I did get a lot of bracing practice, I will continue to use my rudder on my bagboats. My Folbot and Klepper, are maybe more like the barge I mentioned. I figure I can always lean and brace to accomplish a turn, a rudder just makes it easier. Then it also allows me to hoist a sail, and sail along, taking a few paddle strokes now and then! A nice quiet form of motor sailing. Concerning Auto trans, I often drive 100 miles per day in traffic, and yeah it may use more gas, but then so does the AC unit, that I use to keep cool in rush hour parking lots! I don't hear any of the macho types saying they don't use their AC in summer! Or for that matter up in the cold north country, where you come from, saying they just turn off the auto heater, so as to toughen up against the cold! Actually I did see one picture where the rudder was deployed, but that was several years ago when the journal indicated you all had first started kayaking. I won't count that against you though, since I can't see that it is you in the bright yellow kayak. And besides since you had just started, you were probably under the impression as a newbie, that if you had a rudder, you were intended to use it. Especially since you had probably not mastered all the paddle and bracing stokes yet! Now if I could just figure out how to put a motor on my kayak! Oh yeah, I did try one this last summer, but that is another story! What does this have to do with standard vs auto transmission? Well like I said, Keenan is a little faster, and would be able to figure it out, so why don't you ask him! The question was actually intended more as a statement, i.e. "This has nothing to do with standard vs auto transmission." snip further weird blather filled with identity confusion RkyMtnHootOwl 0vQ I know who I am, no ID confusion here! If you are confused about who you are, think about it! again, RkyMtnHootOwl OvO Freak! |
add a rudder to a kayak?
KMAN wrote: in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/3/05 6:10 AM: On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 02:05:30 -0500, KMAN wrote: in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/2/05 3:25 AM: On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 23:21:52 -0500, KMAN wrote: snip snip snip and in summary Freak! Tsh,tsh! Such a thoughful response, for such a deep thinker! Do you strain hard at the prose? OvO |
add a rudder to a kayak?
in article ,
RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/4/05 4:45 AM: KMAN wrote: in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/3/05 6:10 AM: On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 02:05:30 -0500, KMAN wrote: in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/2/05 3:25 AM: On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 23:21:52 -0500, KMAN wrote: snip snip snip and in summary Freak! Tsh,tsh! Such a thoughful response, for such a deep thinker! Do you strain hard at the prose? OvO Perhaps if you didn't snip the entire message sans the final word it would be understood differently? However, I do congratulate you on writing a relatively clear sentence with a relatively clear meaning. I believe that is a first! |
add a rudder to a kayak?
On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 09:33:21 -0500, KMAN wrote:
in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/4/05 4:45 AM: KMAN wrote: in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/3/05 6:10 AM: On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 02:05:30 -0500, KMAN wrote: in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/2/05 3:25 AM: On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 23:21:52 -0500, KMAN wrote: snip snip snip and in summary Freak! Tsh,tsh! Such a thoughful response, for such a deep thinker! Do you strain hard at the prose? OvO Perhaps if you didn't snip the entire message sans the final word it would be understood differently? However, I do congratulate you on writing a relatively clear sentence with a relatively clear meaning. I believe that is a first! I snipped because I saw no significant response to the resurrected thread forthcoming. There was no purpose to continue to waste the bandwidth! I am sure that any who may desire to shed light on the depth of your previous prose, can read the previous posts for significant insight! OvO |
add a rudder to a kayak?
in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at
wrote on 12/4/05 2:40 PM: On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 09:33:21 -0500, KMAN wrote: in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/4/05 4:45 AM: KMAN wrote: in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/3/05 6:10 AM: On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 02:05:30 -0500, KMAN wrote: in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/2/05 3:25 AM: On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 23:21:52 -0500, KMAN wrote: snip snip snip and in summary Freak! Tsh,tsh! Such a thoughful response, for such a deep thinker! Do you strain hard at the prose? OvO Perhaps if you didn't snip the entire message sans the final word it would be understood differently? However, I do congratulate you on writing a relatively clear sentence with a relatively clear meaning. I believe that is a first! I snipped because I saw no significant response to the resurrected thread forthcoming You find it difficult to cope when you can't control others, don't you! |
add a rudder to a kayak?
On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 14:51:14 -0500, KMAN wrote:
in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/4/05 2:40 PM: On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 09:33:21 -0500, KMAN wrote: in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/4/05 4:45 AM: KMAN wrote: snip Freak! Tsh,tsh! Such a thoughful response, for such a deep thinker! Do you strain hard at the prose? OvO Perhaps if you didn't snip the entire message sans the final word it would be understood differently? However, I do congratulate you on writing a relatively clear sentence with a relatively clear meaning. I believe that is a first! I snipped because I saw no significant response to the resurrected thread forthcoming You find it difficult to cope when you can't control others, don't you! Still no significant response to the on topic thread! OvO |
add a rudder to a kayak?
in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at
wrote on 12/4/05 3:37 PM: On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 14:51:14 -0500, KMAN wrote: in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/4/05 2:40 PM: On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 09:33:21 -0500, KMAN wrote: in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/4/05 4:45 AM: KMAN wrote: snip Freak! Tsh,tsh! Such a thoughful response, for such a deep thinker! Do you strain hard at the prose? OvO Perhaps if you didn't snip the entire message sans the final word it would be understood differently? However, I do congratulate you on writing a relatively clear sentence with a relatively clear meaning. I believe that is a first! I snipped because I saw no significant response to the resurrected thread forthcoming You find it difficult to cope when you can't control others, don't you! Still no significant response to the on topic thread! OvO A thread is a thread. It is neither on-topic nor off-topic. The posts in the thread can be either on-topic or off-topic and (subjectively speaking) significant or insignificant. Do you mean to say I haven't made any posts relevant to the topic of the thread? Go back and read the thread. I've already posted extensively with my views on kayaks and rudders. You've babbled on about using air conditioning in a car and other non-analogous ramblings. If you have a specific question regarding kayaks and rudders, please feel free to pose it. |
add a rudder to a kayak?
On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 15:50:28 -0500, KMAN wrote:
in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at wrote on 12/4/05 3:37 PM: snip A thread is a thread. It is neither on-topic nor off-topic. The posts in the thread can be either on-topic or off-topic and (subjectively speaking) significant or insignificant. As they usually are! Do you mean to say I haven't made any posts relevant to the topic of the thread? Go back and read the thread. I've already posted extensively with my views on kayaks and rudders. I have never questioned that you posted extensively! In fact I attempted to determine and establish the basis in experience of your postings to this NG, so that I/we could better understand and appreciate your postings. I realize that as a non-entity Usenet identity, that you may be associated with known personalities (K&J). If you do not desire that association to be made, that is your choice, and for your respected reasons. But understand the charade is quite thinly veiled, and I believe apparent to most. I have been working to establish a new ID myself, but not to hide my true ID, but instead to clearly establish it, so that it will be easily recognizable who a person is talking to when they correspond with me. I realize the necessity to protect your private info, but I believe there is an element of subterfuge in your postings as Kman, that are intended to hide not only your annonimity, but the intent and veracity of your posting as well. On the other hand, K&J has a totally different personality, and IMHO, much more interesting, and should I say trustworthy! Kman seems to be much more of a Usenet rebel, whose input is suspect, and without the quality of real life experience. He makes me think of a Usenet ghost, that just pops in and out of a NG, with his quips, and then fades away! No real commitment to the health of the group, or the current discussion. Some would call it trolling! You've babbled on about using air conditioning in a car and other non-analogous ramblings. Some insist that the use of autotrans saves gas, and yet use the AC which can use up to 1/4 of the available Hp. hence "wasting gas" for their comfort and convienence. A rudder may not be as efficient as just leaning into a turn, but is more convienent, especially with beamy boats like my Folbot Super and Klepper AEII. So saving gas is not so much the issue as comfort and convienence, and the macho illusion of using a standard transmission. Having driven over the road trucks with standard trans with up to 21 gears, that is a lot of work, and those boys are going to autotrans as much as possible these days. Most folks do not take full advantage of the gear selection options of a standard transmission. Even professional race car drivers miss a shift at times, so are also using autotrans. Now I would also admit that driving a sporty little convertible with a 5 speed standard, in the mountain roads, is a heck of a lot of fun! For the same reason paddling a responsive kayak in waves is a blast. The use of a rudder becomes inconsequential. Just let me paddle! If you have a specific question regarding kayaks and rudders, please feel free to pose it. If I pose a specific question, can I expect you to pose a specific, and non inflamatory reponse? And again, what would the basis of your experience be to answer such a question? In other words, do you really know what you are talking about, or are you just a - Poser? I think that was the jist of the question that was ask earlier in the thread by someone else, and a question you did not choose to answer! Would you care to answer it now? RkyMtnHootOwl OvO I have been thinking of another ditty! "Give a hoot, don't polloot the NG" OvO |
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