I read through the thread that started with this post with great
interest as I am a newbie dealing with the same issue. I assumed
my problem was one of incorrect technique (or more correctly, lack
of technique). I'm looking for pointers to books/DVD's/videos -
anything that will help a beginner develop the proper paddling
techniques. Flat water is what I'm interested in primarily. I've
looked at some sites offering instructional materials, but it's
difficult for me to tell from the descriptions whether they would
help me with the basics of paddling or not.

I appreciate any advice/pointers.

Thanks,

Cheryl
Lyons, TX



Argo wrote:
Has anyone ever retro-fitted a rudder to a plastic kayak? I've been
plotting how that might be done with the small, plastic kayak I got on
points. It doesn't track at all (which makes it great in a tight slalom
run, but gives my girlfriend fits when she's trying to paddle across
flat water).

I'm not worried about the aesthetics of wires running along the top of
the kayak, if that would make it simpler. Is it possible? Is it a LOT
of work?

Argo
http://greenrealm.blogspot.com

"Cheryl Cato" wrote in message
...

I read through the thread that started with this post with great interest
as I am a newbie dealing with the same issue. I assumed
my problem was one of incorrect technique (or more correctly, lack
of technique). I'm looking for pointers to books/DVD's/videos -
anything that will help a beginner develop the proper paddling
techniques. Flat water is what I'm interested in primarily. I've
looked at some sites offering instructional materials, but it's
difficult for me to tell from the descriptions whether they would
help me with the basics of paddling or not.

I appreciate any advice/pointers.

Thanks,

Cheryl
Lyons, TX

Hey Cheryl, what is it that happens that makes you think there is something
wrong with your technique?

Cheers



Argo wrote:
Has anyone ever retro-fitted a rudder to a plastic kayak? I've been
plotting how that might be done with the small, plastic kayak I got on
points. It doesn't track at all (which makes it great in a tight slalom
run, but gives my girlfriend fits when she's trying to paddle across
flat water).

I'm not worried about the aesthetics of wires running along the top of
the kayak, if that would make it simpler. Is it possible? Is it a LOT
of work?

Argo
http://greenrealm.blogspot.com

add a rudder to a kayak?
 

....stuff deleted

I spend a lot of time lurking on cycling NGs. This is probably
kayaking's answer to the "helmet wars" of rec.bicycling.misc



Too true (having read the same sh-- er -- crap as you.

I would like to add that I am not fond of rudders. My experiences are that
they do all of the following:

- add weight to the boat
- cause minor (but painful) injuries when the cables fray
- fail at inconvenient times (or lock up)
- add maintenence chores to the boat that I'd rather not do
- generally (depending upon hull design) add as much resistance as benefit
to paddling

There are times, however, when a rudder is necessary. I've paddled long
doubles that could only be managed with a rudder. I've also been in certain
boats and conditions where a rudder was a nice luxury to have.

My personal opinion is that if you find a boat you can paddle comfortably
without a rudder, than you are better off avoiding the additional
complexity and expense they add to paddling. If you find a boat that
requires a rudder to be manageable, they by all means, buy and use the
rudder. I will continue to use rudderless boats. The times I've paddled
with a rudder, I tended to become lazy and allow my skills to degrade. I
also found the experience to be similar to driving with that atrocity known
as either an automatic transmission or planned obsolescence, take your pick
(note that I am not rational on that particular subject, so you can
question my rationale on this one, too).

Rick

add a rudder to a kayak?
 

"Rick" wrote in message
2...
...stuff deleted

I spend a lot of time lurking on cycling NGs. This is probably
kayaking's answer to the "helmet wars" of rec.bicycling.misc



Too true (having read the same sh-- er -- crap as you.

I would like to add that I am not fond of rudders. My experiences are that
they do all of the following:

- add weight to the boat
- cause minor (but painful) injuries when the cables fray
- fail at inconvenient times (or lock up)
- add maintenence chores to the boat that I'd rather not do
- generally (depending upon hull design) add as much resistance as benefit
to paddling

There are times, however, when a rudder is necessary. I've paddled long
doubles that could only be managed with a rudder. I've also been in
certain
boats and conditions where a rudder was a nice luxury to have.

My personal opinion is that if you find a boat you can paddle comfortably
without a rudder, than you are better off avoiding the additional
complexity and expense they add to paddling. If you find a boat that
requires a rudder to be manageable, they by all means, buy and use the
rudder. I will continue to use rudderless boats. The times I've paddled
with a rudder, I tended to become lazy and allow my skills to degrade. I
also found the experience to be similar to driving with that atrocity
known
as either an automatic transmission or planned obsolescence, take your
pick
(note that I am not rational on that particular subject, so you can
question my rationale on this one, too).

Rick

- - - on the other hand, a rudder allows you to paddle in particularily
adverse conditions without having to constantly paddle steer or edge the
boat.

And an autobox has considerable attraction when driving in traffic and a
decent autobox that you can choose to over-ride and use like a manual (Audi
for example) offers the best of both worlds.

Rob

add a rudder to a kayak?
 

....stuff deleted

- - - on the other hand, a rudder allows you to paddle in particularily
adverse conditions without having to constantly paddle steer or edge the
boat.

And an autobox has considerable attraction when driving in traffic and a
decent autobox that you can choose to over-ride and use like a manual
(Audi for example) offers the best of both worlds.

Rob

I have paddled in full storm 50+ mph winds, waves chopped off from those
winds, w/o a rudder. That said, I had a boat that performed reasonably well
w/o a rudder. Yes, I made correcting strokes, braces, etc. All I was saying
was that rudders have their place, they just don't have a place on my boat.
Others have different opinions, and I'm fine with that. I am still very
concerned about rudders as a source of maintenance and failure. If you
didn't develop the skills and a rudder jams, cable breaks, gear shifts so
that the cable fouls, or whatever, you are in deep kim chee. Like the
aforementioned automatic transmissions, they are less reliable than the low
tech solution.

I will never buy an automatic transmisson again - not from any manufacturer.
At best, they make driving dull. At worst, they dictate when shifting should
occur (even when it is unsafe), are slow to respond to demands for power,
and they waste fuel. Added to this is the fact that they are less reliable
than a standard. I hate them with a passion usually reserved for mass
murderers. That most people buy them is, IMO, certain proof of their
mediocrity. Those who have them use the same argument, "they are much easier
to use in traffic." I can show anyone with an automatic how to manage their
driving so that the standard is at least as easy to manage in stop/go
conditions or on hills. Most folks are too lazy to learn and would rather
place calls on their cell phones than pay attention to their driving. VW
(who now owns Porsche/Audi, by the way) put a tranny like that on their old
bug. It was awful. I only hope they've done a better job on this one.

Rick

add a rudder to a kayak?
 

On 1-Dec-2005, "Rick Donnelly" wrote:

I have paddled in full storm 50+ mph winds, waves chopped off from those
winds, w/o a rudder. That said, I had a boat that performed reasonably well
w/o a rudder.

Under those conditions, a rudder can work poorly. If you are on short
wavelength waves, the rudder can spend a lot of time out of the water.
I've watched ruddered kayaks zigzag under those conditions while I
tracked straight in a non-ruddered kayak.

I will never buy an automatic transmisson again - not from any manufacturer.
At best, they make driving dull. At worst, they dictate when shifting should
occur (even when it is unsafe), are slow to respond to demands for power,
and they waste fuel.

I'd almost agree, but CVTs, now available on hybrids and some other vehicles
(like the Freestar) can be a significant improvement over conventional automatics
and provide better fuel economy. I'll give up my standard for a good CVT...
someday.

Mike

add a rudder to a kayak?
 

in article , Michael Daly at
wrote on 12/1/05 5:08 PM:


On 1-Dec-2005, "Rick Donnelly" wrote:

I have paddled in full storm 50+ mph winds, waves chopped off from those
winds, w/o a rudder. That said, I had a boat that performed reasonably well
w/o a rudder.

Under those conditions, a rudder can work poorly. If you are on short
wavelength waves, the rudder can spend a lot of time out of the water.
I've watched ruddered kayaks zigzag under those conditions while I
tracked straight in a non-ruddered kayak.

Quite right...

I will never buy an automatic transmisson again - not from any manufacturer.
At best, they make driving dull. At worst, they dictate when shifting should
occur (even when it is unsafe), are slow to respond to demands for power,
and they waste fuel.

I'd almost agree, but CVTs, now available on hybrids and some other vehicles
(like the Freestar) can be a significant improvement over conventional
automatics
and provide better fuel economy. I'll give up my standard for a good CVT...
someday.

Mike

Put whatever transmission you want in a Freestar and it's still a piece of
**** (aka a Dirtstar, as those in the biz like to call them).

I'm with Rick, standard all the way. And no frickin' rudder either.

add a rudder to a kayak?
 

On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 23:21:52 -0500, KMAN wrote:

in article , Michael Daly at
wrote on 12/1/05 5:08 PM:


On 1-Dec-2005, "Rick Donnelly" wrote:

I have paddled in full storm 50+ mph winds, waves chopped off from those
winds, w/o a rudder. That said, I had a boat that performed reasonably well
w/o a rudder.

Under those conditions, a rudder can work poorly. If you are on short
wavelength waves, the rudder can spend a lot of time out of the water.
I've watched ruddered kayaks zigzag under those conditions while I
tracked straight in a non-ruddered kayak.

Quite right...

I will never buy an automatic transmisson again - not from any manufacturer.
At best, they make driving dull. At worst, they dictate when shifting should
occur (even when it is unsafe), are slow to respond to demands for power,
and they waste fuel.

I'd almost agree, but CVTs, now available on hybrids and some other vehicles
(like the Freestar) can be a significant improvement over conventional
automatics
and provide better fuel economy. I'll give up my standard for a good CVT...
someday.

Mike

Put whatever transmission you want in a Freestar and it's still a piece of
**** (aka a Dirtstar, as those in the biz like to call them).

I'm with Rick, standard all the way. And no frickin' rudder either.

Hi Kman, I was glad to see your post, and had missed your presence in
these parts recently, and I hoped that we had not hurt your feelings,
and that you were still well. I figure you have maybe been busy with
your friend Keenan selling the tickets to some shindig up there in
OTT, that is coming up soon. Sounds like a lot of fun! Is it a New
Years celebration, or just a fund raiser for his charity work? Seems
he has done this program in previous years. Is this your first year?

Anyway to the subject of this post, I will endorse what your friend
Keenan says about his rudder time. At least as far as it appears from
his website stories about paddling trips. All of the pictures show, to
the best I can determine, that the rudders are there, but up. If you
paddle together very much, I assume you probably follow suite.

Of course you would not be able to use a rudder in some of the
shallower streams, or risk having it torn off. Especially in the
swifts and hell holes that you explored, and swam in! That was what a
class III or IV?

You would not want to do a wet exit and then have to self-rescue with
a rudder in the way, as any of the WW specialist here would attest to.
None of their play boats have rudders that I know of just for that
reason. Using a seakayak in the narrows must be tricky to steer in
fast water though, since I am sure they do not turn on a dime, as they
say! Though you apparently have mastered the art having survived to
write numerous stories.

I also realize that some of the pictures are in big flat water, but
again do not show a deployed rudder, so you must be accomplishing your
turns with something other than a rudder! Unless of course you use
them only during storms and rough weather when you are too busy for
picture taking. Most all the pictures were taken on very placid water,
beautiful, smooth, where you would not need a rudder to control a
barge, and certainly not any tsunami conditions, or breaking surf, or
storm surge. Do they have tsunami in OTT?

As for myself, having started kayaking in a WW kayak on flat water,
and found how frustrating that it is to go anywhere, though I did get
a lot of bracing practice, I will continue to use my rudder on my
bagboats. My Folbot and Klepper, are maybe more like the barge I
mentioned. I figure I can always lean and brace to accomplish a turn,
a rudder just makes it easier. Then it also allows me to hoist a sail,
and sail along, taking a few paddle strokes now and then! A nice quiet
form of motor sailing.

Concerning Auto trans, I often drive 100 miles per day in traffic, and
yeah it may use more gas, but then so does the AC unit, that I use to
keep cool in rush hour parking lots! I don't hear any of the macho
types saying they don't use their AC in summer! Or for that matter up
in the cold north country, where you come from, saying they just turn
off the auto heater, so as to toughen up against the cold!

Actually I did see one picture where the rudder was deployed, but that
was several years ago when the journal indicated you all had first
started kayaking. I won't count that against you though, since I can't
see that it is you in the bright yellow kayak. And besides since you
had just started, you were probably under the impression as a newbie,
that if you had a rudder, you were intended to use it. Especially
since you had probably not master all the paddle and bracing stokes
yet!

Now if I could just figure out how to put a motor on my kayak! Oh
yeah, I did try one this last summer, but that is another story!

RkyMtnHootOwl 0vQ

add a rudder to a kayak?
 

RkyMtnHootOwl???!!!

New moniker, eh Tink?

add a rudder to a kayak?
 

On 2 Dec 2005 14:49:06 -0800, BCITORGB wrote:

RkyMtnHootOwl???!!!

New moniker, eh Tink?

Hi Wilf, Yeah, I have been trying to come up with a name that I could
use here and other discussion groups, that had not been used already.
I originally wanted Hootowl, but there were already a bunch of them
posting, or had the email addresses subscribed too. Anyway I hope now
to establish RkyMtmHootOwl as a recognizable name where ever I wander!
I picked up the Hotmail.com, Yahoo.com, and my Qwest.com emails that
should last me awhile.

In addition to Tinker as a childhood friend, I had a Hootowl that was
a special pet, So I thought this was a tribute to "Hooty" who I could
always talk to, and he always listened!

Life is about each moment of breath,
Living, about each breathless moment!

Thanks, KnesisKnosis, aka Tinkerntom, aka TnT
and just for Wilf, "Tink"

and now a friendlier, "RkyMtnHootOwl" 0v0


2 WW kayaks,
'73 Folbot Super,
pre '60 Klepper AEII
77 Hobie Cat 16

To email, use only one "hoot", and I'll get the message!