I don't think carpooling has any life in it as an option any more. There are
places where driving is as hideous as fingernails on a blackboard (Long
Island, for instance), and carpooling makes perfect sense. It really didn't
catch on, and I don't think the price of fuel would change that.

We may be talking about extremes here, though. Let's get moderate. Eliminate
from the equation those people who drive a gigantic Lincoln or Caddy SUV to
work, all alone, because those people are idiots and you'll never change
them. You'll never get them to switch to a Toyota Prius, or even a Camry.
Instead, focus on people who have 2 mini vans in the family, but only really
need one for those times when they need to move a lot of kids or furniture
or 15 bags of mulch. I know people like that. One vehicle is used for
commuting, and the other is allowed to get beat up & filthy with heavy
errands (or sticky children). Those are the families who should AT LEAST
switch to a sedan that takes them from 23 mpg to 30 or 32 mpg.

I'd suggest public service advertising focused at those people, but there's
a big diaper crowd here who needs to have their bottle of milk, and they'd
call such advertising either a waste of money, or excessive government
control.


"Juan Valdez" wrote in message
...
Doug,
You are making a great argument for raising the price of gas high enough
that people will car pool and buy fuel efficient cars.


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
True, but look around you on the highway. What percentage of cars would
you estimate have just one or two passengers on a typical work day? A few
years back, the University of Rochester posted students from a stats
class at the entrance to the NY State Thruway and found that about 85% of
vehicles had one passenger. This was a weekday morning from rush hour
through lunch time. That's one as in "1".

Obviously, nobody's going to tow with a hybrid, but that's not relevant.

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
k.net...
Most of your hybrids and very high fuel efficiency vehicles are small,
lightweight and not enough capacity to haul around the 2-4 kids and
their gear as well as the groceries. It is fine for a DINK or single
person, not one who wants to haul the kids to the little league game, or
camping and to tow a boat of trailer. It may be OK as a 2nd vehicle for
the commuter.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
The confusion began here when you said consumers would not buy fuel
efficient vehicles until this that or the other thing happened. I
pointed out that these vehicles exist and are selling nicely already.
This is not an absolute statement, since it should be obvious that MORE
of these vehicles will be sold as fuel prices increase, and as the
current crop of still-useful vehicles ages and needs replacement.

It did NOT disagree with anything you said in your last paragraph
beginning with "I can't figure out...". One exception, though: Oil
prices are largely disconnected from supply and demand. If you believe
otherwise, you are not familiar with how daily prices are REALLY pegged
by speculators. The price increases of the past 12 months are wildly
out of proportion to changes in supply & demand.

"Juan Valdez" wrote in message
...
Doug,
I can't figure out what you are saying. Are you saying gas prices are
not controlled by supply and demand? Do you not agree that we can
substantially reduce our consumption by buying fuel efficient cars?
Are you disagreeing with the experts when they say the only long term
solution is to find alternative energy sources, and at the current
price of fossil fuel there is no economic incentive to developed and
market alternative energy? Do you think everyone including Al Gore
missed the boat on this?

pHs - how did you like my boating reference?


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
Stop into a Toyota or Honda dealer, ask to speak briefly to their
most experienced salesperson, and ask what's selling. Or, you could
just look around. I agree that too many gas pigs are sold to people
who have absolutely zero need for a truck of any kind, but that
doesn't negate the fact that cars like Corollas and Civics are
selling like hotcakes, and they're not even in the category of "high
efficiency", compared to vehicles like the Prius (50+ mpg).



"Juan Valdez" wrote in message
...
Doug,
What is silly is your inability to see the obvious. There is one
reason for the increase of gas prices. There is an increase in
demand, without any increase in supply. Consumers will not pay for
better fuel efficient cars until the cost of the gas guzzlers make
it worth their while. The fact that a few people buy fuel efficient
cars, does not negate the fact that too many people are buying gas
guzzling SUV and Trucks, while keeping their home thermostat set at
78 degrees.

Heck even Al Gore who was dumb as dirt, knew you had to raise the
cost of gas to make it economically viable to find alternative
energy sources. Al's idea was to tax gas $3/gal and use the tax to
find alternative energy.


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Juan Valdez" wrote in message
...
Most of the people in rec.boats who complain about the price of
gas, are driving trucks with low mpg and boats that burn tons of
gas. If they really were concerned about the price of gas, they
would buy a hybrid car and a either a trawler or sailboat.

They refuse to see the obvious. Consumers will not buy a fuel
efficient car or boat, or pay for alternative energy sources until
the cost of petrol fuels make it worth while to do so.

That's silly. There are plenty of fuel efficient cars being sold.
It's been that way for years. Even a basic Corolla gets over 30
mpg. Same with models from Honda. Dealers don't need to whore these
out with stupid "employee discount" offers, as do the big 3.