Harry Krause wrote:
Regular grade gasoline was $3.05 a gallon yesterday at several docks in
Annapolis. Diesel was $2.61 to $2.65.

Thanks, Dubya.


It's a real stretch to try to blame George Bush for five decades of
over consumption, five decades of refusal to seriously pursue
alternative energy sources, five decades of ass-kissing BIG OIL and THE
BIG THREE automakers. He can be held accountable for the things like
the gutting of CAFE standards during his administration. He can be
criticized for developing a national "energy policy" that concentrates
primarily on squeezing the last few drops of oil out of the ground and
excusing his family's (and other) oil companies from taxes in the
process. He can be resented, a bit, because he and his family are
getting filthy rich(er) every time the price of a bbl of oil goes up a
buck. He clearly has no personal incentive to wish for lower oil
prices, but it isn't fair to lay the blame for the current pricing on
Bush.

The SUV aspect of this whole thing is amusing. Not that SUV's are
primarily responsible for the high prices of oil- but if you remember
the last few years every time some environmentalist suggested that it
might not be in the national interest to offer vehicles that got less
than 10 mpg the right wing radio shows all began to squeal, (on cue),
"we need to let the free market decide what people will buy and drive".
I hope those same apologists have the same "free market" attitude
toward the price of oil. You're seeing $3 at the marina- on the west
coast we're seeing $3 at a lot of regular gas stations (for high
octane).

On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 08:58:11 -0700, gould0738 wrote:


It's a real stretch to try to blame George Bush

It's a stretch, but interesting to note how we got here.

http://www.faultline.org/news/2001/1...ependence.html



I hope those
same apologists have the same "free market" attitude toward the price of
oil.

Hey, we only have ourselves to blame. Someone promised us a "free lunch"
and we believed them. It's been over 30 years since the first oil crunch,
and we are still no less vulnerable. That's failed leadership.

wrote in message
ups.com...

Harry Krause wrote:
Regular grade gasoline was $3.05 a gallon yesterday at several docks in
Annapolis. Diesel was $2.61 to $2.65.

Thanks, Dubya.


It's a real stretch to try to blame George Bush for five decades of
over consumption, five decades of refusal to seriously pursue
alternative energy sources, five decades of ass-kissing BIG OIL and THE
BIG THREE automakers. He can be held accountable for the things like
the gutting of CAFE standards during his administration. He can be
criticized for developing a national "energy policy" that concentrates
primarily on squeezing the last few drops of oil out of the ground and
excusing his family's (and other) oil companies from taxes in the
process. He can be resented, a bit, because he and his family are
getting filthy rich(er) every time the price of a bbl of oil goes up a
buck. He clearly has no personal incentive to wish for lower oil
prices, but it isn't fair to lay the blame for the current pricing on
Bush.

In all fairness, you really have to listen to the news reports when the
price jumps. Inevitably, they say things like "Oil rose to XXX per barrel in
Singapore trading, based on concerns about hurricanes, the failure of HBO to
produce a new season of the Sopranos on time, increased violence in Iraq"
.....blah blah blah. The hurricane fear also causes orange juice futures to
increase in price, even if the hurricane was a false alarm and never touches
Florida. Those prices tend to come down after the weather has passed. Same
with coffee, when strange weather affects Africa or South America. But, they
*never* seem to go down when oil is involved, and the latest round of fears
don't materialize.

See where I'm going with this? You *can* blame Bush for some of the fears
felt by speculators. He started a war and created instability. That DIRECTLY
affects speculation.

It's obscene for a product as important as oil to be controlled by people
who are no different than the mutual fund managers whose enormous trades
move the prices of stocks all over the place on any given day. Traders on
the oil markets make commissions regardless of whether they're long or short
in their speculative ventures. It's no different than traders in options on
the CBOE.

I'm wondering if it's time to either nationalize oil, or put laws in place
which require that the price be precisely pegged to how much is actually
shipped. But, Bush has personal financial reasons not to go for such a plan.
That is a real problem.

We need to fully explore our own energy resources rather than relying on
foreign sources. Short term, this means exploiting existing fossil fuels
such as coal, oil, and natural gas, and expanding our domestic exploration
for these fuels. Long term, we need to put our scientists and engineers to
the task of exploiting truly renewable energy sources- wind, hydro, and
solar for electricity generation, and electric vehicles. Hybrids and "fuel
cells" are a crock as permanent solutions. Hybrids merely use less of what
will eventually run out (though they are a ngood bridging technology) and
"fuel cell vehicles" tend to rely on fossil fuel processes (such as natural
gas) to produce energy.

The market will indeed drive these things. How many people do you know that
have begun to think about hybrid, electric, and ultra-high mileage cars
lately? I know lots- I'm currently researching how to build a retrofitted
small electric car (converted VW or similar) for around town driving myself.
I'll keep the Suburban for now- need it to tow the boat or camper. But we
don't drive it to work anymore- the older spare car has replaced it as a
commuter vehicle. We also don't boat as much as we used to... I'm sure that
boat fuel economy will be a main factor in our next boat purchase, as well.

Government needs to stay out of it, IMHO- the wallet of the consumer is a
much more powerful tool for change than any bureaucrat's whim. The
government mandates airbags, but how many of you would buy a car without one
for your family to drive? So, the airbag laws aren't neccessarily needed. I
dare Detroit or Osaka to put out a car without an airbag- it's not gonna
fly. I dare them to keep churning out massive numbers of giant gas guzzlers-
they're going to go bankrupt if they do. If Detroit has any decent
businesspeople at the reins nowadays, they will come up with a 50-60 mpg
(or more) commuter vehicle. I'd buy one, and so would several million of my
neighbors. They should invest in research for an economical mass-produced
electric short-range (50-75 mi) commuter vehicle for picking up the kids
from school, grocery shopping, running to Wal-Mart, etc. They'd make a
killing in just a few years.


wrote in message
ups.com...

Harry Krause wrote:
Regular grade gasoline was $3.05 a gallon yesterday at several docks in
Annapolis. Diesel was $2.61 to $2.65.

Thanks, Dubya.


It's a real stretch to try to blame George Bush for five decades of
over consumption, five decades of refusal to seriously pursue
alternative energy sources, five decades of ass-kissing BIG OIL and THE
BIG THREE automakers. He can be held accountable for the things like
the gutting of CAFE standards during his administration. He can be
criticized for developing a national "energy policy" that concentrates
primarily on squeezing the last few drops of oil out of the ground and
excusing his family's (and other) oil companies from taxes in the
process. He can be resented, a bit, because he and his family are
getting filthy rich(er) every time the price of a bbl of oil goes up a
buck. He clearly has no personal incentive to wish for lower oil
prices, but it isn't fair to lay the blame for the current pricing on
Bush.

The SUV aspect of this whole thing is amusing. Not that SUV's are
primarily responsible for the high prices of oil- but if you remember
the last few years every time some environmentalist suggested that it
might not be in the national interest to offer vehicles that got less
than 10 mpg the right wing radio shows all began to squeal, (on cue),
"we need to let the free market decide what people will buy and drive".
I hope those same apologists have the same "free market" attitude
toward the price of oil. You're seeing $3 at the marina- on the west
coast we're seeing $3 at a lot of regular gas stations (for high
octane).

"Stanley Barthfarkle" wrote in message
. ..

If Detroit has any decent businesspeople at the reins nowadays, they will
come up with a 50-60 mpg (or more) commuter vehicle. I'd buy one.......

Cars like the Toyota Prius are already in that mpg range. Why wait for
Detroit to get its head out of its ass?

Most of the people in rec.boats who complain about the price of gas, are
driving trucks with low mpg and boats that burn tons of gas. If they really
were concerned about the price of gas, they would buy a hybrid car and a
either a trawler or sailboat.

They refuse to see the obvious. Consumers will not buy a fuel efficient car
or boat, or pay for alternative energy sources until the cost of petrol
fuels make it worth while to do so.



"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Stanley Barthfarkle" wrote in message
. ..

If Detroit has any decent businesspeople at the reins nowadays, they will
come up with a 50-60 mpg (or more) commuter vehicle. I'd buy one.......

Cars like the Toyota Prius are already in that mpg range. Why wait for
Detroit to get its head out of its ass?

"Juan Valdez" wrote in message
...
Most of the people in rec.boats who complain about the price of gas, are
driving trucks with low mpg and boats that burn tons of gas. If they
really
were concerned about the price of gas, they would buy a hybrid car and a
either a trawler or sailboat.

They refuse to see the obvious. Consumers will not buy a fuel efficient
car
or boat, or pay for alternative energy sources until the cost of petrol
fuels make it worth while to do so.

Which is why doug's comment is so ridiculous. If there was a market for
those cars, the big three would be producing them......as it is, Chysler
can't keep up with depmand for their new huge truck,

Secondly, engine technology is limited wrt to increasing fuel economy. The
auto manufacturer's have increased fleet fuel efficiency by lightening the
load........reducing the sheet metal thickness, more plastic and aluminum,
shaving fractions of ounces off of every part..................we end up
paying for it in the long run in car repairs, highway deaths, etc.





"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Stanley Barthfarkle" wrote in message
. ..

If Detroit has any decent businesspeople at the reins nowadays, they
will
come up with a 50-60 mpg (or more) commuter vehicle. I'd buy one.......

Cars like the Toyota Prius are already in that mpg range. Why wait for
Detroit to get its head out of its ass?

"P. Fritz" wrote in message
...

"Juan Valdez" wrote in message
...
Most of the people in rec.boats who complain about the price of gas, are
driving trucks with low mpg and boats that burn tons of gas. If they
really
were concerned about the price of gas, they would buy a hybrid car and a
either a trawler or sailboat.

They refuse to see the obvious. Consumers will not buy a fuel efficient
car
or boat, or pay for alternative energy sources until the cost of petrol
fuels make it worth while to do so.

Which is why doug's comment is so ridiculous. If there was a market for
those cars, the big three would be producing them......as it is, Chysler
can't keep up with depmand for their new huge truck,

Secondly, engine technology is limited wrt to increasing fuel economy.
The
auto manufacturer's have increased fleet fuel efficiency by lightening the
load........reducing the sheet metal thickness, more plastic and aluminum,
shaving fractions of ounces off of every part..................we end up
paying for it in the long run in car repairs, highway deaths, etc.

We end up paying for it? Really?

"Juan Valdez" wrote in message
...
Most of the people in rec.boats who complain about the price of gas, are
driving trucks with low mpg and boats that burn tons of gas. If they
really were concerned about the price of gas, they would buy a hybrid car
and a either a trawler or sailboat.

They refuse to see the obvious. Consumers will not buy a fuel efficient
car or boat, or pay for alternative energy sources until the cost of
petrol fuels make it worth while to do so.

That's silly. There are plenty of fuel efficient cars being sold. It's been
that way for years. Even a basic Corolla gets over 30 mpg. Same with models
from Honda. Dealers don't need to whore these out with stupid "employee
discount" offers, as do the big 3.

Doug,
What is silly is your inability to see the obvious. There is one reason for
the increase of gas prices. There is an increase in demand, without any
increase in supply. Consumers will not pay for better fuel efficient cars
until the cost of the gas guzzlers make it worth their while. The fact that
a few people buy fuel efficient cars, does not negate the fact that too many
people are buying gas guzzling SUV and Trucks, while keeping their home
thermostat set at 78 degrees.

Heck even Al Gore who was dumb as dirt, knew you had to raise the cost of
gas to make it economically viable to find alternative energy sources. Al's
idea was to tax gas $3/gal and use the tax to find alternative energy.


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Juan Valdez" wrote in message
...
Most of the people in rec.boats who complain about the price of gas, are
driving trucks with low mpg and boats that burn tons of gas. If they
really were concerned about the price of gas, they would buy a hybrid car
and a either a trawler or sailboat.

They refuse to see the obvious. Consumers will not buy a fuel efficient
car or boat, or pay for alternative energy sources until the cost of
petrol fuels make it worth while to do so.

That's silly. There are plenty of fuel efficient cars being sold. It's
been that way for years. Even a basic Corolla gets over 30 mpg. Same with
models from Honda. Dealers don't need to whore these out with stupid
"employee discount" offers, as do the big 3.