anchor question?
 

On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 18:38:26 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

How about disconnecting the chain, attaching a light line to it that is long
enough to reach the surface, and have a small float on the end. Then, take
your handy, dandy GPS and mark the spot. Go into a dock, get some help from
the locals, and retrieve your anchor. What's the worst case... someone
steals it? You can't find it again? Nobody is willing to help?

That's fine for an anchor that is stuck on the bottom and won't come
up. The original problem statement was: "how do you retrieve a heavy
anchor and chain with a broken windlass?"

anchor question?
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 18:38:26 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

How about disconnecting the chain, attaching a light line to it that is
long
enough to reach the surface, and have a small float on the end. Then, take
your handy, dandy GPS and mark the spot. Go into a dock, get some help
from
the locals, and retrieve your anchor. What's the worst case... someone
steals it? You can't find it again? Nobody is willing to help?

That's fine for an anchor that is stuck on the bottom and won't come
up. The original problem statement was: "how do you retrieve a heavy
anchor and chain with a broken windlass?"

Yes. This is a slightly different question, raised by Larry, who seems
unwilling to ask for help?

anchor question?
 

nom=de=plume wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 Jun 2010 14:54:54 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Half a boat length of chain is the recommended minimum.
Most serious
cruisers are using all chain (with a snubber) for a variety
of good
reasons.

Did you get a copy of Chapman's yet ? You'll learn a lot
from it and
get more details than anyone here can provide:

http://www.amazon.com/Chapman-Piloti...Small-Handling

Yes, have a copy though not the latest. So, a 40' boat would
have at least
20 feet. Seems like with all chain that could get pretty heavy
if you need
to get it out without a windlass... Seems like picking a good
place with
(among other things) less likelihood of coral would mean you
wouldn't need
to have as much use for all chain.


There are a number of ways to pull a heavy anchor and chain
without a
windlass, but a windlass is certainly the preferred way of
doing it.
Most serious cruisers prefer all chain simply because it
provides more
security when anchoring, and when you are living on your boat in
remote places, that counts for a lot. Chain sets faster
because the
catenary effect reduces the angle of pull on the anchor. Chain
offers
a great deal of protection from accidental or intentional
cuts/abrasion. Chain has a very high ultimate breaking strength,
etc., etc.

99 out of 100 international/offshore cruising boats can't be all
wrong. Get the big anchor, get the chain, and get the windlass
unless you intend to spend all of your time in a marina.

Interesting... I'd like to know how you would go about raising
an anchor with all that chain by hand? I didn't read anything
like that so far. You can't put the chain on a regular winch
right? So, I was thinking you would have to sail up to just
above the anchor, but that's still a lot of chain/anchor.

Not saying the cruisers are wrong... obviously they're right.
I'm just wondering how they do it, esp. in the case of mechanism
failure. That's the point of being a sailor.. dealing with
adversity, etc.


If the windlass fails, you cut and run. I'll bet there are tens
of thousands of anchors on the bottom of the ocean that were
stuck and the Captain had no other choice.

Really? How much does 100' of chain and a big anchor cost? You're
going to leave it? Sounds pretty stupid to me, but you don't own a
boat, right? So, you wouldn't even have a clue.
Unlike you, I do own a boat - my fourth actually. What does the
cost of the anchor and it's rode have to do with it? If you can't
recover it you don't call AAA and fix your makeup while you wait
for them. It only "sounds" stupid to you because you _are_ stupid.

Unlike you, I'm not a moron. Looking at the West Marine website, an
anchor for a 40' boat costs about $400 plus 100' of chain at $5/ft
is $500. So, that's nearly $1000 you, the moron, is willing to leave
on the bottom. I guess stupid is as stupid does.


So your plan it to dive it and release it by hand? The loss is a
small price to pay.

How about disconnecting the chain, attaching a light line to it that
is long enough to reach the surface, and have a small float on the
end. Then, take your handy, dandy GPS and mark the spot. Go into a
dock, get some help from the locals, and retrieve your anchor. What's
the worst case... someone steals it? You can't find it again? Nobody
is willing to help?


Sure. That happens everyday.

Why don't you start an anchor retrieval business?

anchor question?
 

nom=de=plume wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 13 Jun 2010 22:18:24 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

I have no doubt that coral exists in lots of places. Seems
to me that you
can almost always avoid them if you're careful.


Not always true, depends on where you are.

Seems like a contradiction to me. If it depends on where you
are, and you know there's coral "there," then you should be
able to avoid that place. Also, I said almost always... not
always.

You said that "there is no real need to avoid them," but in
the previous
sentence said that they "are very sharp and abrasive." Seems
to me that
there is a real need to avoid them.

There is no need to avoid them for ecological reasons, and
assuming
you have a decent length of chain attached to your anchor, as
everyone
should, there is no reason to be concerned about abrasion
either.

I guess it depends on the definition of "decent length" of
chain. Is that 20' or 30' or all chain or what? Seems open to
interpretation. And, if you have less than a decent amount,
and you know you're going to a place that potentially has
coral, seems reasonable to either avoid that place, get more
chain, or talk to the locals before you try to anchor.


Talk to the locals? Now that's funny!

Nom: Hi! I'm going to go on a cruise and I will be anchoring
at exactly 37.846474,-122.664127. Is that a suitable area to
anchor?

Locals: Say what? You have a LOT to learn!

Lat/Lon in the SF area? Seems rather more precise than you can
really be with a GPS. I guess you'd be unable to get any info
about the conditions before you go, because you're incapable of
using a phone, VHF, two cans with a string between them?

You have a LOT to learn!


Talk with the locals and good luck with that.

So you don't think local knowledge is important... dumb and dumber...


For offshore anchoring miles away? Ever look at a chart, expert?
It's a bit tougher than a road map.

?? Typically, when you go somewhere, you umm.. know where you're
going? Well, maybe not in your case. So, the chart gives you some
idea, but I guess you're unwilling to perhaps ask if there's another
boat already there? Yeah, you're dumb and arrogant. That's a bad
combination!



Sure. Ask the locals if there is a boat already anchored at your
destination. Good luck.

Are you just pretending to be stupid? If there's another boat already
anchored when you get there, you go up and ask them about the bottom
conditions. I guess you're unable to ask for directions if you're
driving and get lost. No wonder you're used to wandering around like
you're doing here.


Bad spin. Read your post again.

anchor question?
 

nom=de=plume wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 18:38:26 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

How about disconnecting the chain, attaching a light line to it that
is long
enough to reach the surface, and have a small float on the end.
Then, take
your handy, dandy GPS and mark the spot. Go into a dock, get some
help from
the locals, and retrieve your anchor. What's the worst case... someone
steals it? You can't find it again? Nobody is willing to help?

That's fine for an anchor that is stuck on the bottom and won't come
up. The original problem statement was: "how do you retrieve a heavy
anchor and chain with a broken windlass?"

Yes. This is a slightly different question, raised by Larry, who seems
unwilling to ask for help?
Wayne's scenario is different. If you can't lift it by hand, and it's
not stuck on the bottom, you cut and run. If it's not stuck, you lift
it by hand. If you can't do that (I need a flowchart now) you cut and run.

anchor question?
 

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 18:38:26 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

How about disconnecting the chain, attaching a light line to it that is
long
enough to reach the surface, and have a small float on the end. Then,
take
your handy, dandy GPS and mark the spot. Go into a dock, get some help
from
the locals, and retrieve your anchor. What's the worst case... someone
steals it? You can't find it again? Nobody is willing to help?

That's fine for an anchor that is stuck on the bottom and won't come
up. The original problem statement was: "how do you retrieve a heavy
anchor and chain with a broken windlass?"

Yes. This is a slightly different question, raised by Larry, who seems
unwilling to ask for help?
Wayne's scenario is different. If you can't lift it by hand, and it's not
stuck on the bottom, you cut and run. If it's not stuck, you lift it by
hand. If you can't do that (I need a flowchart now) you cut and run.

Your flow chart needs to include cut, mark, run, come back.

anchor question?
 

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 Jun 2010 14:54:54 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Half a boat length of chain is the recommended minimum. Most
serious
cruisers are using all chain (with a snubber) for a variety of
good
reasons.

Did you get a copy of Chapman's yet ? You'll learn a lot from
it and
get more details than anyone here can provide:

http://www.amazon.com/Chapman-Piloti...Small-Handling

Yes, have a copy though not the latest. So, a 40' boat would have
at least
20 feet. Seems like with all chain that could get pretty heavy if
you need
to get it out without a windlass... Seems like picking a good
place with
(among other things) less likelihood of coral would mean you
wouldn't need
to have as much use for all chain.


There are a number of ways to pull a heavy anchor and chain
without a
windlass, but a windlass is certainly the preferred way of doing
it.
Most serious cruisers prefer all chain simply because it provides
more
security when anchoring, and when you are living on your boat in
remote places, that counts for a lot. Chain sets faster because
the
catenary effect reduces the angle of pull on the anchor. Chain
offers
a great deal of protection from accidental or intentional
cuts/abrasion. Chain has a very high ultimate breaking strength,
etc., etc.

99 out of 100 international/offshore cruising boats can't be all
wrong. Get the big anchor, get the chain, and get the windlass
unless you intend to spend all of your time in a marina.

Interesting... I'd like to know how you would go about raising an
anchor with all that chain by hand? I didn't read anything like
that so far. You can't put the chain on a regular winch right? So,
I was thinking you would have to sail up to just above the anchor,
but that's still a lot of chain/anchor.

Not saying the cruisers are wrong... obviously they're right. I'm
just wondering how they do it, esp. in the case of mechanism
failure. That's the point of being a sailor.. dealing with
adversity, etc.


If the windlass fails, you cut and run. I'll bet there are tens of
thousands of anchors on the bottom of the ocean that were stuck and
the Captain had no other choice.

Really? How much does 100' of chain and a big anchor cost? You're
going to leave it? Sounds pretty stupid to me, but you don't own a
boat, right? So, you wouldn't even have a clue.
Unlike you, I do own a boat - my fourth actually. What does the cost
of the anchor and it's rode have to do with it? If you can't recover
it you don't call AAA and fix your makeup while you wait for them. It
only "sounds" stupid to you because you _are_ stupid.

Unlike you, I'm not a moron. Looking at the West Marine website, an
anchor for a 40' boat costs about $400 plus 100' of chain at $5/ft is
$500. So, that's nearly $1000 you, the moron, is willing to leave on
the bottom. I guess stupid is as stupid does.


So your plan it to dive it and release it by hand? The loss is a small
price to pay.

How about disconnecting the chain, attaching a light line to it that is
long enough to reach the surface, and have a small float on the end.
Then, take your handy, dandy GPS and mark the spot. Go into a dock, get
some help from the locals, and retrieve your anchor. What's the worst
case... someone steals it? You can't find it again? Nobody is willing to
help?


Sure. That happens everyday.

Why don't you start an anchor retrieval business?

Why don't you get someone else to drive and check the tires while he backs
up..

anchor question?
 

"Moose" wrote in message
...

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 Jun 2010 14:54:54 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Half a boat length of chain is the recommended minimum. Most
serious
cruisers are using all chain (with a snubber) for a variety of
good
reasons.

Did you get a copy of Chapman's yet ? You'll learn a lot from
it and
get more details than anyone here can provide:

http://www.amazon.com/Chapman-Piloti...Small-Handling

Yes, have a copy though not the latest. So, a 40' boat would
have at least
20 feet. Seems like with all chain that could get pretty heavy
if you need
to get it out without a windlass... Seems like picking a good
place with
(among other things) less likelihood of coral would mean you
wouldn't need
to have as much use for all chain.


There are a number of ways to pull a heavy anchor and chain
without a
windlass, but a windlass is certainly the preferred way of doing
it.
Most serious cruisers prefer all chain simply because it provides
more
security when anchoring, and when you are living on your boat in
remote places, that counts for a lot. Chain sets faster because
the
catenary effect reduces the angle of pull on the anchor. Chain
offers
a great deal of protection from accidental or intentional
cuts/abrasion. Chain has a very high ultimate breaking
strength,
etc., etc.

99 out of 100 international/offshore cruising boats can't be all
wrong. Get the big anchor, get the chain, and get the windlass
unless you intend to spend all of your time in a marina.

Interesting... I'd like to know how you would go about raising an
anchor with all that chain by hand? I didn't read anything like
that so far. You can't put the chain on a regular winch right? So,
I was thinking you would have to sail up to just above the anchor,
but that's still a lot of chain/anchor.

Not saying the cruisers are wrong... obviously they're right. I'm
just wondering how they do it, esp. in the case of mechanism
failure. That's the point of being a sailor.. dealing with
adversity, etc.


If the windlass fails, you cut and run. I'll bet there are tens of
thousands of anchors on the bottom of the ocean that were stuck and
the Captain had no other choice.

Really? How much does 100' of chain and a big anchor cost? You're
going to leave it? Sounds pretty stupid to me, but you don't own a
boat, right? So, you wouldn't even have a clue.
Unlike you, I do own a boat - my fourth actually. What does the cost
of the anchor and it's rode have to do with it? If you can't recover
it you don't call AAA and fix your makeup while you wait for them.
It only "sounds" stupid to you because you _are_ stupid.

Unlike you, I'm not a moron. Looking at the West Marine website, an
anchor for a 40' boat costs about $400 plus 100' of chain at $5/ft is
$500. So, that's nearly $1000 you, the moron, is willing to leave on
the bottom. I guess stupid is as stupid does.


So your plan it to dive it and release it by hand? The loss is a small
price to pay.

How about disconnecting the chain, attaching a light line to it that is
long enough to reach the surface, and have a small float on the end.
Then, take your handy, dandy GPS and mark the spot. Go into a dock, get
some help from the locals, and retrieve your anchor. What's the worst
case... someone steals it? You can't find it again? Nobody is willing to
help?


Sure. That happens everyday.

Why don't you start an anchor retrieval business?
She would have to give us shares of the business. After all we did show
her the "ropes".


In your case, it would be (rope-a-)dope.

anchor question?
 

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 13 Jun 2010 22:18:24 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

I have no doubt that coral exists in lots of places. Seems to
me that you
can almost always avoid them if you're careful.


Not always true, depends on where you are.

Seems like a contradiction to me. If it depends on where you are,
and you know there's coral "there," then you should be able to
avoid that place. Also, I said almost always... not always.

You said that "there is no real need to avoid them," but in the
previous
sentence said that they "are very sharp and abrasive." Seems to
me that
there is a real need to avoid them.

There is no need to avoid them for ecological reasons, and
assuming
you have a decent length of chain attached to your anchor, as
everyone
should, there is no reason to be concerned about abrasion
either.

I guess it depends on the definition of "decent length" of chain.
Is that 20' or 30' or all chain or what? Seems open to
interpretation. And, if you have less than a decent amount, and
you know you're going to a place that potentially has coral,
seems reasonable to either avoid that place, get more chain, or
talk to the locals before you try to anchor.


Talk to the locals? Now that's funny!

Nom: Hi! I'm going to go on a cruise and I will be anchoring at
exactly 37.846474,-122.664127. Is that a suitable area to anchor?

Locals: Say what? You have a LOT to learn!

Lat/Lon in the SF area? Seems rather more precise than you can
really be with a GPS. I guess you'd be unable to get any info about
the conditions before you go, because you're incapable of using a
phone, VHF, two cans with a string between them?

You have a LOT to learn!


Talk with the locals and good luck with that.

So you don't think local knowledge is important... dumb and dumber...


For offshore anchoring miles away? Ever look at a chart, expert?
It's a bit tougher than a road map.

?? Typically, when you go somewhere, you umm.. know where you're going?
Well, maybe not in your case. So, the chart gives you some idea, but I
guess you're unwilling to perhaps ask if there's another boat already
there? Yeah, you're dumb and arrogant. That's a bad combination!



Sure. Ask the locals if there is a boat already anchored at your
destination. Good luck.

Are you just pretending to be stupid? If there's another boat already
anchored when you get there, you go up and ask them about the bottom
conditions. I guess you're unable to ask for directions if you're driving
and get lost. No wonder you're used to wandering around like you're doing
here.


Bad spin. Read your post again.

I see you're still wandering and wondering...

anchor question?
 

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 Jun 2010 14:54:54 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Half a boat length of chain is the recommended minimum. Most
serious
cruisers are using all chain (with a snubber) for a variety of
good
reasons.

Did you get a copy of Chapman's yet ? You'll learn a lot from
it and
get more details than anyone here can provide:

http://www.amazon.com/Chapman-Piloti...Small-Handling

Yes, have a copy though not the latest. So, a 40' boat would have
at least
20 feet. Seems like with all chain that could get pretty heavy if
you need
to get it out without a windlass... Seems like picking a good
place with
(among other things) less likelihood of coral would mean you
wouldn't need
to have as much use for all chain.


There are a number of ways to pull a heavy anchor and chain
without a
windlass, but a windlass is certainly the preferred way of doing
it.
Most serious cruisers prefer all chain simply because it provides
more
security when anchoring, and when you are living on your boat in
remote places, that counts for a lot. Chain sets faster because
the
catenary effect reduces the angle of pull on the anchor. Chain
offers
a great deal of protection from accidental or intentional
cuts/abrasion. Chain has a very high ultimate breaking strength,
etc., etc.

99 out of 100 international/offshore cruising boats can't be all
wrong. Get the big anchor, get the chain, and get the windlass
unless you intend to spend all of your time in a marina.

Interesting... I'd like to know how you would go about raising an
anchor with all that chain by hand? I didn't read anything like
that so far. You can't put the chain on a regular winch right? So,
I was thinking you would have to sail up to just above the anchor,
but that's still a lot of chain/anchor.

Not saying the cruisers are wrong... obviously they're right. I'm
just wondering how they do it, esp. in the case of mechanism
failure. That's the point of being a sailor.. dealing with
adversity, etc.


If the windlass fails, you cut and run. I'll bet there are tens of
thousands of anchors on the bottom of the ocean that were stuck and
the Captain had no other choice.

Really? How much does 100' of chain and a big anchor cost? You're
going to leave it? Sounds pretty stupid to me, but you don't own a
boat, right? So, you wouldn't even have a clue.
Unlike you, I do own a boat - my fourth actually. What does the cost
of the anchor and it's rode have to do with it? If you can't recover
it you don't call AAA and fix your makeup while you wait for them. It
only "sounds" stupid to you because you _are_ stupid.

Unlike you, I'm not a moron. Looking at the West Marine website, an
anchor for a 40' boat costs about $400 plus 100' of chain at $5/ft is
$500. So, that's nearly $1000 you, the moron, is willing to leave on
the bottom. I guess stupid is as stupid does.


So your plan it to dive it and release it by hand? The loss is a small
price to pay.

How about disconnecting the chain, attaching a light line to it that is
long enough to reach the surface, and have a small float on the end.
Then, take your handy, dandy GPS and mark the spot. Go into a dock, get
some help from the locals, and retrieve your anchor. What's the worst
case... someone steals it? You can't find it again? Nobody is willing to
help?


Sure. That happens everyday.

Why don't you start an anchor retrieval business?
She would have to give us shares of the business. After all we did show her
the "ropes".