anchor question?
 

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 18:38:26 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

How about disconnecting the chain, attaching a light line to it that is
long
enough to reach the surface, and have a small float on the end. Then,
take
your handy, dandy GPS and mark the spot. Go into a dock, get some help
from
the locals, and retrieve your anchor. What's the worst case... someone
steals it? You can't find it again? Nobody is willing to help?

That's fine for an anchor that is stuck on the bottom and won't come
up. The original problem statement was: "how do you retrieve a heavy
anchor and chain with a broken windlass?"

Yes. This is a slightly different question, raised by Larry, who seems
unwilling to ask for help?
Wayne's scenario is different. If you can't lift it by hand, and it's not
stuck on the bottom, you cut and run. If it's not stuck, you lift it by
hand. If you can't do that (I need a flowchart now) you cut and run.
If it's stuck in mud or sand there is a remedy for that. If it's stuck on a
rock there might be a remedy for that. If you don't have an idea what it
might be stuck on there is a third remedy to try if the other ones don't
free it. Cutting it loose is the remedy of last resort.

anchor question?
 

"Moose" wrote in message
...

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 18:38:26 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

How about disconnecting the chain, attaching a light line to it that
is long
enough to reach the surface, and have a small float on the end. Then,
take
your handy, dandy GPS and mark the spot. Go into a dock, get some help
from
the locals, and retrieve your anchor. What's the worst case... someone
steals it? You can't find it again? Nobody is willing to help?

That's fine for an anchor that is stuck on the bottom and won't come
up. The original problem statement was: "how do you retrieve a heavy
anchor and chain with a broken windlass?"

Yes. This is a slightly different question, raised by Larry, who seems
unwilling to ask for help?
Wayne's scenario is different. If you can't lift it by hand, and it's
not stuck on the bottom, you cut and run. If it's not stuck, you lift it
by hand. If you can't do that (I need a flowchart now) you cut and run.
If it's stuck in mud or sand there is a remedy for that. If it's stuck on
a rock there might be a remedy for that. If you don't have an idea what it
might be stuck on there is a third remedy to try if the other ones don't
free it. Cutting it loose is the remedy of last resort.


I imagine it is. Thanks for the list.

anchor question?
 

nom=de=plume wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 18:38:26 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

How about disconnecting the chain, attaching a light line to it
that is long
enough to reach the surface, and have a small float on the end.
Then, take
your handy, dandy GPS and mark the spot. Go into a dock, get some
help from
the locals, and retrieve your anchor. What's the worst case...
someone
steals it? You can't find it again? Nobody is willing to help?

That's fine for an anchor that is stuck on the bottom and won't come
up. The original problem statement was: "how do you retrieve a heavy
anchor and chain with a broken windlass?"

Yes. This is a slightly different question, raised by Larry, who
seems unwilling to ask for help?
Wayne's scenario is different. If you can't lift it by hand, and
it's not stuck on the bottom, you cut and run. If it's not stuck,
you lift it by hand. If you can't do that (I need a flowchart now)
you cut and run.

Your flow chart needs to include cut, mark, run, come back.


I'm sure people do come back to try to retrieve their anchors but I
still would bet there are thousands on the ocean floor.

anchor question?
 

nom=de=plume wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 Jun 2010 14:54:54 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Half a boat length of chain is the recommended minimum.
Most serious
cruisers are using all chain (with a snubber) for a variety
of good
reasons.

Did you get a copy of Chapman's yet ? You'll learn a lot
from it and
get more details than anyone here can provide:

http://www.amazon.com/Chapman-Piloti...Small-Handling


Yes, have a copy though not the latest. So, a 40' boat would
have at least
20 feet. Seems like with all chain that could get pretty
heavy if you need
to get it out without a windlass... Seems like picking a
good place with
(among other things) less likelihood of coral would mean you
wouldn't need
to have as much use for all chain.


There are a number of ways to pull a heavy anchor and chain
without a
windlass, but a windlass is certainly the preferred way of
doing it.
Most serious cruisers prefer all chain simply because it
provides more
security when anchoring, and when you are living on your boat in
remote places, that counts for a lot. Chain sets faster
because the
catenary effect reduces the angle of pull on the anchor.
Chain offers
a great deal of protection from accidental or intentional
cuts/abrasion. Chain has a very high ultimate breaking
strength,
etc., etc.

99 out of 100 international/offshore cruising boats can't be all
wrong. Get the big anchor, get the chain, and get the windlass
unless you intend to spend all of your time in a marina.

Interesting... I'd like to know how you would go about raising
an anchor with all that chain by hand? I didn't read anything
like that so far. You can't put the chain on a regular winch
right? So, I was thinking you would have to sail up to just
above the anchor, but that's still a lot of chain/anchor.

Not saying the cruisers are wrong... obviously they're right.
I'm just wondering how they do it, esp. in the case of
mechanism failure. That's the point of being a sailor..
dealing with adversity, etc.


If the windlass fails, you cut and run. I'll bet there are
tens of thousands of anchors on the bottom of the ocean that
were stuck and the Captain had no other choice.

Really? How much does 100' of chain and a big anchor cost?
You're going to leave it? Sounds pretty stupid to me, but you
don't own a boat, right? So, you wouldn't even have a clue.
Unlike you, I do own a boat - my fourth actually. What does the
cost of the anchor and it's rode have to do with it? If you
can't recover it you don't call AAA and fix your makeup while you
wait for them. It only "sounds" stupid to you because you _are_
stupid.

Unlike you, I'm not a moron. Looking at the West Marine website,
an anchor for a 40' boat costs about $400 plus 100' of chain at
$5/ft is $500. So, that's nearly $1000 you, the moron, is willing
to leave on the bottom. I guess stupid is as stupid does.


So your plan it to dive it and release it by hand? The loss is a
small price to pay.

How about disconnecting the chain, attaching a light line to it that
is long enough to reach the surface, and have a small float on the
end. Then, take your handy, dandy GPS and mark the spot. Go into a
dock, get some help from the locals, and retrieve your anchor.
What's the worst case... someone steals it? You can't find it again?
Nobody is willing to help?


Sure. That happens everyday.

Why don't you start an anchor retrieval business?

Why don't you get someone else to drive and check the tires while he
backs up..


The liberal admission of defeat. Sorry you gave up so soon.

anchor question?
 

nom=de=plume wrote:

"Moose" wrote in message
...

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 Jun 2010 14:54:54 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Half a boat length of chain is the recommended minimum.
Most serious
cruisers are using all chain (with a snubber) for a
variety of good
reasons.

Did you get a copy of Chapman's yet ? You'll learn a lot
from it and
get more details than anyone here can provide:

http://www.amazon.com/Chapman-Piloti...Small-Handling


Yes, have a copy though not the latest. So, a 40' boat
would have at least
20 feet. Seems like with all chain that could get pretty
heavy if you need
to get it out without a windlass... Seems like picking a
good place with
(among other things) less likelihood of coral would mean
you wouldn't need
to have as much use for all chain.


There are a number of ways to pull a heavy anchor and chain
without a
windlass, but a windlass is certainly the preferred way of
doing it.
Most serious cruisers prefer all chain simply because it
provides more
security when anchoring, and when you are living on your
boat in
remote places, that counts for a lot. Chain sets faster
because the
catenary effect reduces the angle of pull on the anchor.
Chain offers
a great deal of protection from accidental or intentional
cuts/abrasion. Chain has a very high ultimate breaking
strength,
etc., etc.

99 out of 100 international/offshore cruising boats can't be
all
wrong. Get the big anchor, get the chain, and get the
windlass
unless you intend to spend all of your time in a marina.

Interesting... I'd like to know how you would go about
raising an anchor with all that chain by hand? I didn't read
anything like that so far. You can't put the chain on a
regular winch right? So, I was thinking you would have to
sail up to just above the anchor, but that's still a lot of
chain/anchor.

Not saying the cruisers are wrong... obviously they're right.
I'm just wondering how they do it, esp. in the case of
mechanism failure. That's the point of being a sailor..
dealing with adversity, etc.


If the windlass fails, you cut and run. I'll bet there are
tens of thousands of anchors on the bottom of the ocean that
were stuck and the Captain had no other choice.

Really? How much does 100' of chain and a big anchor cost?
You're going to leave it? Sounds pretty stupid to me, but you
don't own a boat, right? So, you wouldn't even have a clue.
Unlike you, I do own a boat - my fourth actually. What does the
cost of the anchor and it's rode have to do with it? If you
can't recover it you don't call AAA and fix your makeup while
you wait for them. It only "sounds" stupid to you because you
_are_ stupid.

Unlike you, I'm not a moron. Looking at the West Marine website,
an anchor for a 40' boat costs about $400 plus 100' of chain at
$5/ft is $500. So, that's nearly $1000 you, the moron, is willing
to leave on the bottom. I guess stupid is as stupid does.


So your plan it to dive it and release it by hand? The loss is a
small price to pay.

How about disconnecting the chain, attaching a light line to it
that is long enough to reach the surface, and have a small float on
the end. Then, take your handy, dandy GPS and mark the spot. Go
into a dock, get some help from the locals, and retrieve your
anchor. What's the worst case... someone steals it? You can't find
it again? Nobody is willing to help?


Sure. That happens everyday.

Why don't you start an anchor retrieval business?
She would have to give us shares of the business. After all we did
show her the "ropes".


In your case, it would be (rope-a-)dope.


Dumb. Did Don write that for you?

anchor question?
 

nom=de=plume wrote:

"Moose" wrote in message
...

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 18:38:26 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

How about disconnecting the chain, attaching a light line to it
that is long
enough to reach the surface, and have a small float on the end.
Then, take
your handy, dandy GPS and mark the spot. Go into a dock, get some
help from
the locals, and retrieve your anchor. What's the worst case...
someone
steals it? You can't find it again? Nobody is willing to help?

That's fine for an anchor that is stuck on the bottom and won't come
up. The original problem statement was: "how do you retrieve a
heavy
anchor and chain with a broken windlass?"

Yes. This is a slightly different question, raised by Larry, who
seems unwilling to ask for help?
Wayne's scenario is different. If you can't lift it by hand, and
it's not stuck on the bottom, you cut and run. If it's not stuck,
you lift it by hand. If you can't do that (I need a flowchart now)
you cut and run.
If it's stuck in mud or sand there is a remedy for that. If it's
stuck on a rock there might be a remedy for that. If you don't have
an idea what it might be stuck on there is a third remedy to try if
the other ones don't free it. Cutting it loose is the remedy of last
resort.


I imagine it is. Thanks for the list.


All you can do is "imagine". Why argue with the people who have experience?

anchor question?
 

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Moose" wrote in message
...

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 18:38:26 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

How about disconnecting the chain, attaching a light line to it that
is long
enough to reach the surface, and have a small float on the end.
Then, take
your handy, dandy GPS and mark the spot. Go into a dock, get some
help from
the locals, and retrieve your anchor. What's the worst case...
someone
steals it? You can't find it again? Nobody is willing to help?

That's fine for an anchor that is stuck on the bottom and won't come
up. The original problem statement was: "how do you retrieve a
heavy
anchor and chain with a broken windlass?"

Yes. This is a slightly different question, raised by Larry, who seems
unwilling to ask for help?
Wayne's scenario is different. If you can't lift it by hand, and it's
not stuck on the bottom, you cut and run. If it's not stuck, you lift
it by hand. If you can't do that (I need a flowchart now) you cut and
run.
If it's stuck in mud or sand there is a remedy for that. If it's stuck
on a rock there might be a remedy for that. If you don't have an idea
what it might be stuck on there is a third remedy to try if the other
ones don't free it. Cutting it loose is the remedy of last resort.


I imagine it is. Thanks for the list.


All you can do is "imagine". Why argue with the people who have
experience?

Yet you have no problem doing that... hmmm... I smell hypocrite.

anchor question?
 

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 Jun 2010 14:54:54 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Half a boat length of chain is the recommended minimum. Most
serious
cruisers are using all chain (with a snubber) for a variety of
good
reasons.

Did you get a copy of Chapman's yet ? You'll learn a lot
from it and
get more details than anyone here can provide:

http://www.amazon.com/Chapman-Piloti...Small-Handling

Yes, have a copy though not the latest. So, a 40' boat would
have at least
20 feet. Seems like with all chain that could get pretty heavy
if you need
to get it out without a windlass... Seems like picking a good
place with
(among other things) less likelihood of coral would mean you
wouldn't need
to have as much use for all chain.


There are a number of ways to pull a heavy anchor and chain
without a
windlass, but a windlass is certainly the preferred way of doing
it.
Most serious cruisers prefer all chain simply because it
provides more
security when anchoring, and when you are living on your boat in
remote places, that counts for a lot. Chain sets faster because
the
catenary effect reduces the angle of pull on the anchor. Chain
offers
a great deal of protection from accidental or intentional
cuts/abrasion. Chain has a very high ultimate breaking
strength,
etc., etc.

99 out of 100 international/offshore cruising boats can't be all
wrong. Get the big anchor, get the chain, and get the windlass
unless you intend to spend all of your time in a marina.

Interesting... I'd like to know how you would go about raising an
anchor with all that chain by hand? I didn't read anything like
that so far. You can't put the chain on a regular winch right?
So, I was thinking you would have to sail up to just above the
anchor, but that's still a lot of chain/anchor.

Not saying the cruisers are wrong... obviously they're right. I'm
just wondering how they do it, esp. in the case of mechanism
failure. That's the point of being a sailor.. dealing with
adversity, etc.


If the windlass fails, you cut and run. I'll bet there are tens
of thousands of anchors on the bottom of the ocean that were stuck
and the Captain had no other choice.

Really? How much does 100' of chain and a big anchor cost? You're
going to leave it? Sounds pretty stupid to me, but you don't own a
boat, right? So, you wouldn't even have a clue.
Unlike you, I do own a boat - my fourth actually. What does the
cost of the anchor and it's rode have to do with it? If you can't
recover it you don't call AAA and fix your makeup while you wait for
them. It only "sounds" stupid to you because you _are_ stupid.

Unlike you, I'm not a moron. Looking at the West Marine website, an
anchor for a 40' boat costs about $400 plus 100' of chain at $5/ft is
$500. So, that's nearly $1000 you, the moron, is willing to leave on
the bottom. I guess stupid is as stupid does.


So your plan it to dive it and release it by hand? The loss is a
small price to pay.

How about disconnecting the chain, attaching a light line to it that is
long enough to reach the surface, and have a small float on the end.
Then, take your handy, dandy GPS and mark the spot. Go into a dock, get
some help from the locals, and retrieve your anchor. What's the worst
case... someone steals it? You can't find it again? Nobody is willing
to help?


Sure. That happens everyday.

Why don't you start an anchor retrieval business?

Why don't you get someone else to drive and check the tires while he
backs up..


The liberal admission of defeat. Sorry you gave up so soon.

You're the one who cuts and runs.

anchor question?
 

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Moose" wrote in message
...

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 Jun 2010 14:54:54 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Half a boat length of chain is the recommended minimum.
Most serious
cruisers are using all chain (with a snubber) for a variety
of good
reasons.

Did you get a copy of Chapman's yet ? You'll learn a lot
from it and
get more details than anyone here can provide:

http://www.amazon.com/Chapman-Piloti...Small-Handling

Yes, have a copy though not the latest. So, a 40' boat would
have at least
20 feet. Seems like with all chain that could get pretty heavy
if you need
to get it out without a windlass... Seems like picking a good
place with
(among other things) less likelihood of coral would mean you
wouldn't need
to have as much use for all chain.


There are a number of ways to pull a heavy anchor and chain
without a
windlass, but a windlass is certainly the preferred way of
doing it.
Most serious cruisers prefer all chain simply because it
provides more
security when anchoring, and when you are living on your boat
in
remote places, that counts for a lot. Chain sets faster
because the
catenary effect reduces the angle of pull on the anchor. Chain
offers
a great deal of protection from accidental or intentional
cuts/abrasion. Chain has a very high ultimate breaking
strength,
etc., etc.

99 out of 100 international/offshore cruising boats can't be
all
wrong. Get the big anchor, get the chain, and get the
windlass
unless you intend to spend all of your time in a marina.

Interesting... I'd like to know how you would go about raising
an anchor with all that chain by hand? I didn't read anything
like that so far. You can't put the chain on a regular winch
right? So, I was thinking you would have to sail up to just
above the anchor, but that's still a lot of chain/anchor.

Not saying the cruisers are wrong... obviously they're right.
I'm just wondering how they do it, esp. in the case of mechanism
failure. That's the point of being a sailor.. dealing with
adversity, etc.


If the windlass fails, you cut and run. I'll bet there are tens
of thousands of anchors on the bottom of the ocean that were
stuck and the Captain had no other choice.

Really? How much does 100' of chain and a big anchor cost? You're
going to leave it? Sounds pretty stupid to me, but you don't own a
boat, right? So, you wouldn't even have a clue.
Unlike you, I do own a boat - my fourth actually. What does the
cost of the anchor and it's rode have to do with it? If you can't
recover it you don't call AAA and fix your makeup while you wait
for them. It only "sounds" stupid to you because you _are_ stupid.

Unlike you, I'm not a moron. Looking at the West Marine website, an
anchor for a 40' boat costs about $400 plus 100' of chain at $5/ft
is $500. So, that's nearly $1000 you, the moron, is willing to leave
on the bottom. I guess stupid is as stupid does.


So your plan it to dive it and release it by hand? The loss is a
small price to pay.

How about disconnecting the chain, attaching a light line to it that
is long enough to reach the surface, and have a small float on the
end. Then, take your handy, dandy GPS and mark the spot. Go into a
dock, get some help from the locals, and retrieve your anchor. What's
the worst case... someone steals it? You can't find it again? Nobody
is willing to help?


Sure. That happens everyday.

Why don't you start an anchor retrieval business?
She would have to give us shares of the business. After all we did show
her the "ropes".


In your case, it would be (rope-a-)dope.


Dumb. Did Don write that for you?

Wish I could take credit... that was quite witty and 'bang-on', as y'all
like to say.

anchor question?
 

On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 20:22:31 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Wayne's scenario is different. If you can't lift it by hand, and it's
not stuck on the bottom, you cut and run.

Not with my anchor and chain, waaaay too expensive to leave it without
a fight. There are many different ways to get the ground tackle up
without a windlass. Your assignment is to suggest one that might
work.