anchor question?
 

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 Jun 2010 14:54:54 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Half a boat length of chain is the recommended minimum. Most
serious
cruisers are using all chain (with a snubber) for a variety of good
reasons.

Did you get a copy of Chapman's yet ? You'll learn a lot from it
and
get more details than anyone here can provide:

http://www.amazon.com/Chapman-Piloti...Small-Handling

Yes, have a copy though not the latest. So, a 40' boat would have at
least
20 feet. Seems like with all chain that could get pretty heavy if you
need
to get it out without a windlass... Seems like picking a good place
with
(among other things) less likelihood of coral would mean you wouldn't
need
to have as much use for all chain.


There are a number of ways to pull a heavy anchor and chain without a
windlass, but a windlass is certainly the preferred way of doing it.
Most serious cruisers prefer all chain simply because it provides more
security when anchoring, and when you are living on your boat in
remote places, that counts for a lot. Chain sets faster because the
catenary effect reduces the angle of pull on the anchor. Chain offers
a great deal of protection from accidental or intentional
cuts/abrasion. Chain has a very high ultimate breaking strength,
etc., etc.

99 out of 100 international/offshore cruising boats can't be all
wrong. Get the big anchor, get the chain, and get the windlass
unless you intend to spend all of your time in a marina.

Interesting... I'd like to know how you would go about raising an
anchor with all that chain by hand? I didn't read anything like that so
far. You can't put the chain on a regular winch right? So, I was
thinking you would have to sail up to just above the anchor, but that's
still a lot of chain/anchor.

Not saying the cruisers are wrong... obviously they're right. I'm just
wondering how they do it, esp. in the case of mechanism failure. That's
the point of being a sailor.. dealing with adversity, etc.


If the windlass fails, you cut and run. I'll bet there are tens of
thousands of anchors on the bottom of the ocean that were stuck and the
Captain had no other choice.

Really? How much does 100' of chain and a big anchor cost? You're going
to leave it? Sounds pretty stupid to me, but you don't own a boat, right?
So, you wouldn't even have a clue.
Unlike you, I do own a boat - my fourth actually. What does the cost of
the anchor and it's rode have to do with it? If you can't recover it you
don't call AAA and fix your makeup while you wait for them. It only
"sounds" stupid to you because you _are_ stupid.

Unlike you, I'm not a moron. Looking at the West Marine website, an anchor
for a 40' boat costs about $400 plus 100' of chain at $5/ft is $500. So,
that's nearly $1000 you, the moron, is willing to leave on the bottom. I
guess stupid is as stupid does.

anchor question?
 

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 13 Jun 2010 22:18:24 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

I have no doubt that coral exists in lots of places. Seems to me
that you
can almost always avoid them if you're careful.


Not always true, depends on where you are.

Seems like a contradiction to me. If it depends on where you are, and
you know there's coral "there," then you should be able to avoid that
place. Also, I said almost always... not always.

You said that "there is no real need to avoid them," but in the
previous
sentence said that they "are very sharp and abrasive." Seems to me
that
there is a real need to avoid them.

There is no need to avoid them for ecological reasons, and assuming
you have a decent length of chain attached to your anchor, as
everyone
should, there is no reason to be concerned about abrasion either.

I guess it depends on the definition of "decent length" of chain. Is
that 20' or 30' or all chain or what? Seems open to interpretation.
And, if you have less than a decent amount, and you know you're going
to a place that potentially has coral, seems reasonable to either
avoid that place, get more chain, or talk to the locals before you
try to anchor.


Talk to the locals? Now that's funny!

Nom: Hi! I'm going to go on a cruise and I will be anchoring at
exactly 37.846474,-122.664127. Is that a suitable area to anchor?

Locals: Say what? You have a LOT to learn!

Lat/Lon in the SF area? Seems rather more precise than you can really
be with a GPS. I guess you'd be unable to get any info about the
conditions before you go, because you're incapable of using a phone,
VHF, two cans with a string between them?

You have a LOT to learn!


Talk with the locals and good luck with that.

So you don't think local knowledge is important... dumb and dumber...


For offshore anchoring miles away? Ever look at a chart, expert? It's a
bit tougher than a road map.

?? Typically, when you go somewhere, you umm.. know where you're going?
Well, maybe not in your case. So, the chart gives you some idea, but I guess
you're unwilling to perhaps ask if there's another boat already there? Yeah,
you're dumb and arrogant. That's a bad combination!

anchor question?
 

On Jun 16, 7:11*pm, "nom=de=plume" wrote:
"Larry" wrote in message

...





nom=de=plume wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
om...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
m...
On Mon, 14 Jun 2010 14:54:54 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Half a boat length of chain is the recommended minimum. * Most
serious
cruisers are using all chain (with a snubber) for a variety of good
reasons.

Did you get a copy of Chapman's yet ? * You'll learn a lot from it
and
get more details than anyone here can provide:

http://www.amazon.com/Chapman-Piloti...Small-Handling

Yes, have a copy though not the latest. So, a 40' boat would have at
least
20 feet. Seems like with all chain that could get pretty heavy if you
need
to get it out without a windlass... Seems like picking a good place
with
(among other things) less likelihood of coral would mean you wouldn't
need
to have as much use for all chain.

There are a number of ways to pull a heavy anchor and chain without a
windlass, but a windlass is certainly the preferred way of doing it..
Most serious cruisers prefer all chain simply because it provides more
security when anchoring, and when you are living on your boat in
remote places, that counts for a lot. *Chain sets faster because *the
catenary effect reduces the angle of pull on the anchor. *Chain offers
a great deal of protection from accidental or intentional
cuts/abrasion. * Chain has a very high ultimate breaking strength,
etc., etc.

99 out of 100 international/offshore cruising boats can't be all
wrong. * Get the big anchor, get the chain, and get the windlass
unless you intend to spend all of your time in a marina.

Interesting... I'd like to know how you would go about raising an
anchor with all that chain by hand? I didn't read anything like that so
far. You can't put the chain on a regular winch right? So, I was
thinking you would have to sail up to just above the anchor, but that's
still a lot of chain/anchor.

Not saying the cruisers are wrong... obviously they're right. I'm just
wondering how they do it, esp. in the case of mechanism failure. That's
the point of being a sailor.. dealing with adversity, etc.

If the windlass fails, you cut and run. *I'll bet there are tens of
thousands of anchors on the bottom of the ocean that were stuck and the
Captain had no other choice.

Really? How much does 100' of chain and a big anchor cost? You're going
to leave it? Sounds pretty stupid to me, but you don't own a boat, right?
So, you wouldn't even have a clue.
Unlike you, I do own a boat - my fourth actually. *What does the cost of
the anchor and it's rode have to do with it? *If you can't recover it you
don't call AAA and fix your makeup while you wait for them. *It only
"sounds" stupid to you because you _are_ stupid.

Unlike you, I'm not a moron. Looking at the West Marine website, an anchor
for a 40' boat costs about $400 plus 100' of chain at $5/ft is $500. So,
that's nearly $1000 you, the moron, is willing to leave on the bottom. I
guess stupid is as stupid does.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I must be stupid as well, because if it was a choice of cut the anchor
because my (or my friends/families) saftey was at risk, and/or
jeprodising my 40 ft boat that could be valued at over a million
dollars, I would too.

I'm sure these guys would have cut the anchor loose if they had the
chance to do it all over again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marquis_Cooper

anchor question?
 

"Tim" wrote in message
...
On Jun 16, 7:11 pm, "nom=de=plume" wrote:
"Larry" wrote in message

...





nom=de=plume wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
om...
nom=de=plume wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
m...
On Mon, 14 Jun 2010 14:54:54 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Half a boat length of chain is the recommended minimum. Most
serious
cruisers are using all chain (with a snubber) for a variety of
good
reasons.

Did you get a copy of Chapman's yet ? You'll learn a lot from
it
and
get more details than anyone here can provide:

http://www.amazon.com/Chapman-Piloti...Small-Handling

Yes, have a copy though not the latest. So, a 40' boat would have
at
least
20 feet. Seems like with all chain that could get pretty heavy if
you
need
to get it out without a windlass... Seems like picking a good
place
with
(among other things) less likelihood of coral would mean you
wouldn't
need
to have as much use for all chain.

There are a number of ways to pull a heavy anchor and chain without
a
windlass, but a windlass is certainly the preferred way of doing
it.
Most serious cruisers prefer all chain simply because it provides
more
security when anchoring, and when you are living on your boat in
remote places, that counts for a lot. Chain sets faster because
the
catenary effect reduces the angle of pull on the anchor. Chain
offers
a great deal of protection from accidental or intentional
cuts/abrasion. Chain has a very high ultimate breaking strength,
etc., etc.

99 out of 100 international/offshore cruising boats can't be all
wrong. Get the big anchor, get the chain, and get the windlass
unless you intend to spend all of your time in a marina.

Interesting... I'd like to know how you would go about raising an
anchor with all that chain by hand? I didn't read anything like that
so
far. You can't put the chain on a regular winch right? So, I was
thinking you would have to sail up to just above the anchor, but
that's
still a lot of chain/anchor.

Not saying the cruisers are wrong... obviously they're right. I'm
just
wondering how they do it, esp. in the case of mechanism failure.
That's
the point of being a sailor.. dealing with adversity, etc.

If the windlass fails, you cut and run. I'll bet there are tens of
thousands of anchors on the bottom of the ocean that were stuck and
the
Captain had no other choice.

Really? How much does 100' of chain and a big anchor cost? You're
going
to leave it? Sounds pretty stupid to me, but you don't own a boat,
right?
So, you wouldn't even have a clue.
Unlike you, I do own a boat - my fourth actually. What does the cost
of
the anchor and it's rode have to do with it? If you can't recover it
you
don't call AAA and fix your makeup while you wait for them. It only
"sounds" stupid to you because you _are_ stupid.

Unlike you, I'm not a moron. Looking at the West Marine website, an
anchor
for a 40' boat costs about $400 plus 100' of chain at $5/ft is $500. So,
that's nearly $1000 you, the moron, is willing to leave on the bottom. I
guess stupid is as stupid does.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I must be stupid as well, because if it was a choice of cut the anchor
because my (or my friends/families) saftey was at risk, and/or
jeprodising my 40 ft boat that could be valued at over a million
dollars, I would too.

I'm sure these guys would have cut the anchor loose if they had the
chance to do it all over again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marquis_Cooper

I don't see anywhere that Larry mentioned "safety was at risk" or
jeopardizing the boat was an issue. The original query was how one retrieves
an anchor/chain if no windlass is operational. I posited that one could
drive up to above the anchor, but that would still mean lifting lots of
weight. Wayne implied there was another solution, but so far has refused to
name it.

I totally agree... if safety of the boat or people were an issue, $1000 or
$10,000 is nothing in comparison.

In the case of the person in the link, I think they probably didn't know
what to do until the boat had already flipped.

anchor question?
 

nom=de=plume wrote:


I don't see anywhere that Larry mentioned "safety was at risk" or
jeopardizing the boat was an issue. The original query was how one
retrieves an anchor/chain if no windlass is operational. I posited that
one could drive up to above the anchor, but that would still mean
lifting lots of weight. Wayne implied there was another solution, but so
far has refused to name it.


You have to think a little. First off, unless you're talking +300 feet
of small boat anchor chain, it ain't heavy. And the anchor ain't heavy
either. So if the anchor is free there's no big problem not having a
windlass. You hand over hand it. If the anchor is stuck firm and can't
be loosened, you have to snip the chain. You retrieve as mush as
possible first so you don't lose much. It's not usual to anchor is +40
feet of water.
Now if you aren't strong enough to pull it up when the windlass breaks
down, you just tie a line to the chain as low as is practical and use a
winch on the rope. Repeat as needed.
I don't know about what knot to use or anything like that because I
never done it. But I bet I could.
Because I think.
Works something like this.

Nietzsche: "To do is to be."
Kant: "To be is to do."
Sinatra: "Do be do be do…"

Just have to remember who you are and keep your head.
For hand over handing Sinatra works best.


Jim - Why do I have to explain everything to this girl?

anchor question?
 

"Jim" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:


I don't see anywhere that Larry mentioned "safety was at risk" or
jeopardizing the boat was an issue. The original query was how one
retrieves an anchor/chain if no windlass is operational. I posited that
one could drive up to above the anchor, but that would still mean lifting
lots of weight. Wayne implied there was another solution, but so far has
refused to name it.


You have to think a little. First off, unless you're talking +300 feet
of small boat anchor chain, it ain't heavy. And the anchor ain't heavy
either. So if the anchor is free there's no big problem not having a
windlass. You hand over hand it. If the anchor is stuck firm and can't
be loosened, you have to snip the chain. You retrieve as mush as
possible first so you don't lose much. It's not usual to anchor is +40
feet of water.

Well, we're talking about 40' boat, so my assumption was, perhaps wrong,
that the chain/anchor would be fairly substantial. How much does a typical
anchor for that size of boat weigh? How think would the chain be/or weight
of 100' of it?

Now if you aren't strong enough to pull it up when the windlass breaks
down, you just tie a line to the chain as low as is practical and use a
winch on the rope. Repeat as needed.

Nice! Didn't think of that. Of course, that would take a lot of repeat as
needed, but assuming there's no huge rush, it would be doable.

I don't know about what knot to use or anything like that because I
never done it. But I bet I could.

The knots I've been practicing are the bowline, reefing knot, stopper, clove
hitch, and sheet bend. I was told about animatedknots.com, which is a pretty
cool site.

Because I think.
Works something like this.

Nietzsche: "To do is to be."
Kant: "To be is to do."
Sinatra: "Do be do be do…"

Cheech and Chong: "Dobee!"

Just have to remember who you are and keep your head.
For hand over handing Sinatra works best.

??


Jim - Why do I have to explain everything to this girl?

You don't have to explain everything. Nice that you gave me some ideas about
a solution. Too bad Wayne couldn't/wouldn't. Just keep in mind that I'm not
a blue water sailor (yet), but I have sailed plenty in the past.

anchor question?
 

nom=de=plume wrote:


Well, we're talking about 40' boat, so my assumption was, perhaps wrong,
that the chain/anchor would be fairly substantial. How much does a
typical anchor for that size of boat weigh? How think would the chain
be/or weight of 100' of it?


40-50 pounds ballpark for an anchor but you can easily get away with
lighter in most conditions. You'll have more than one anchor anyway to
handle different bottoms.
3/8" G40 chain is 154 lbs.for 100'. 5/16" G40 is 110 lbs. per 100'.
The 5/16" is probably good for your boat.
But since you're over the anchor when hoisting you're only usually
talking about 10-30 feet or 12-45 lbs of chain.
And all is lighter than that when hoisting, until it breaks the water
surface.


For hand over handing Sinatra works best.

??


Rhythm. Sinatra is just better than Kant or Nietzsche.


Jim - Why do I have to explain everything to this girl?

You don't have to explain everything. Nice that you gave me some ideas
about a solution. Too bad Wayne couldn't/wouldn't. Just keep in mind
that I'm not a blue water sailor (yet), but I have sailed plenty in the
past.


Wayne will jump in if I tell you something he doesn't agree with.
Count on it.


Jim - You're so sweet to talk nice to me, nom. But I know you just want
to make the other guys all jealous. It won't work.

anchor question?
 

On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 00:05:08 -0500, Jim wrote:

Wayne will jump in if I tell you something he doesn't agree with.
Count on it.

Hints for the day:

What is a "rolling hitch"?

What is a "chain hook"?

What is a "snatch block"?

anchor question?
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 00:05:08 -0500, Jim wrote:

Wayne will jump in if I tell you something he doesn't agree with.
Count on it.

Hints for the day:

What is a "rolling hitch"?

What is a "chain hook"?

What is a "snatch block"?

So, you're just playing dumb games. Rolling hitch is for taking strain off
an existing line. Not sure what that has to do with raising an anchor hand
over hand. Sure a chain hook/snatch block, but actually Jim really answered
the question. In fact, I pretty much answered it, but you're so caught up in
your "expert" level you didn't see it.

anchor question?
 

"Jim" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:


Well, we're talking about 40' boat, so my assumption was, perhaps wrong,
that the chain/anchor would be fairly substantial. How much does a
typical anchor for that size of boat weigh? How think would the chain
be/or weight of 100' of it?


40-50 pounds ballpark for an anchor but you can easily get away with
lighter in most conditions. You'll have more than one anchor anyway to
handle different bottoms.
3/8" G40 chain is 154 lbs.for 100'. 5/16" G40 is 110 lbs. per 100'.
The 5/16" is probably good for your boat.
But since you're over the anchor when hoisting you're only usually
talking about 10-30 feet or 12-45 lbs of chain.
And all is lighter than that when hoisting, until it breaks the water
surface.


For hand over handing Sinatra works best.

??


Rhythm. Sinatra is just better than Kant or Nietzsche.


Jim - Why do I have to explain everything to this girl?

You don't have to explain everything. Nice that you gave me some ideas
about a solution. Too bad Wayne couldn't/wouldn't. Just keep in mind that
I'm not a blue water sailor (yet), but I have sailed plenty in the past.


Wayne will jump in if I tell you something he doesn't agree with.
Count on it.


Jim - You're so sweet to talk nice to me, nom. But I know you just want
to make the other guys all jealous. It won't work.

I know it won't work. lol

Thanks for the complete answer. There's a roller on the front, so that would
make it easy to get leverage.