wrote:
On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 19:32:38 -0400,
wrote:

On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 19:10:27 -0400, wrote:

That will also include all of the pathogens you vacuumed up in your
travels too.

Bull****.


So you are saying they don't stop any pathogens. The ones you
encounter pass through 100%.

===

That's not entirely accurate. Masks are very effective at stopping
droplets and dust. They act as carriers of the virus.

But the droplets and dust are still on the mask, waiting to be
projected across the room with those sneezes everyone seems so afraid
of. Since this is really talking about being in a store, the fact that
you are only spraying counters and merchandise that is a foot or two
in front of you is not that consoling. I understand John carries a bag
and he carefully puts his mask in there but that is not what I see
happening. People pull it off and shove it in their pocket, with their
keys, money or whatever else they carry around. A woman shoving it in
her purse is even more disgusting since everything she owns is in that
purse. You can wash your hands all you like but if your pocket or
purse is infected, you are not accomplishing much.


You sneeze with the mask on, those droplets ain’t goin as far as no mask.

On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 22:48:33 -0400 (EDT), Justan Ohlphart
wrote:

Wrote in message:
On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 19:42:43 -0400, "Mr. wrote:On 4/30/2020 7:05 PM, wrote: On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 05:25:49 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/29/2020 11:46 PM, wrote: On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:50:23 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 4/29/2020 5:30 PM, wrote: On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 14:22:36 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/29/2020 1:41 PM, wrote: On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:31:28 -0400, John
wrote: On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:39:44 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:47:21 -0400, John wrote: On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:05 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:46:05 -0400, "Mr.
Luddite"
wrote: On 4/28/2020 8:08 AM, Tim wrote: And just found that out by losing a law suit against down state representative Darren bailey. Pritzker is finding that he’s not as well loved as he thought he
was. https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/judge-grants-restraining-order-to-block-extended-stay-at-home-order-reports/2262560/ Some of this stuff is getting a little out of hand, IMO. Our town just issued an "order" requiring
everybody over 2 years old to wear a mask when going to an "essential" store ... grocery, convenience, gas stations, home improvement outlets, etc. Failure to obey can result in fines. The town's order also says you can't use N-95 or surgical type masks.
You are
required to use a cloth mask that I guess you are supposed to make yourself. I had dug up half a box of "procedural" masks that I bought about 3 years ago at CVS for use when mowing the lawn. Now the town says I can't use them because a procedural mask is considered a surgical
mask. I have no problem with cooperating with this but it's not necessary to issue an "order" enforceable with fines. Wearing a mask is a commonsense courtesy to others. It doesn't protect *you* ... it protects others if you are in close proximity and
you sneeze or cough. When this whole thing started the public was asked to voluntarily practice social distancing and limiting contact with others. For us old farts, we were asked to voluntarily go into hibernation. The whole purpose of this
was to "flatten the curve" to prevent hospitals from becoming overwhelmed with covid-19 cases. That's all. The public voluntarily responded and hospitals were never overwhelmed even in places like NY and NYC. In fact, many now have empty beds and
hospitals are laying off medical staff. We need to resist having local state governments issuing "orders" enforceable by fines, especially when the voluntary efforts of the public are working. Slippery-slope kind of thing. All we need to do is to
continue applying commonsense. I am waiting to see a whole class of Covid related charges tossed as soon as they get to court. The mask thing will probably go first because there is absolutely zero proof the bandanna mask does anything. Even Fauci
started out
saying that and then I imagine he was prodded into saying they *might* help. How are you going to tell thousands of "Nannas" that they are wasting their time making masks. I bet you don't see medical professionals wearing a home made mask. Just think about it a minute.
This is a porous material that you are breathing through so it is collecting saliva. For an employee in a store that is for hours. It is probably soaking wet. (I know my N-95s won't last an hour in the shop until they are soaked). Now I have this wet rag on my face, collecting all of
my germs along with any other germs that were in the air. There is zero filtering capability for anything much bigger than 50-60 microns, even if the rag is dry, wet it is a conduit. (Covid is 0.3 microns) I am breathing the contamination in and if I sneeze, the germs are
going for a ride, infecting anyone or anything within range. How is that helping anything. All of that assumes you handle the mask properly and it doesn't become a worse vector when you take it off and shove it in your pocket. Try spitting through a
mask. Put some food coloring on the mask and sneeze through it. Don't do it near anything expensive. Wrong. Put the food coloring in your mouth. Then sneeze through it. Now do the same without the mask. Common sense rules. We are talking
about what happens to the contamination ON and IN the mask when you sneeze through it., If you are wearing a mask for any length of time on a warm day it will be soaked with sweat, saliva and condensation. Now blow air through that. A T shirt is not going to stop anything. It might slow down the
range a
little but you are still contaminating any surface nearby and surface contamination seems to be the main vector for this disease. I probably have as much experience with masks, real N-95 masks, as anyone here, just because of the amount of grinding and spray painting I do. They are
DONE in an hour or two. That is not anywhere close to the ineffective do rags people call a mask these days. I say again, wear your mask for an hour or so outside (until it gets pretty moist), spray a little food color solution on it, inside or out, it really doesn't make much difference, then blow
air through it. See what comes out. Next, what do you do with your mask when you take it off? Shove it in your pocket for next time? Throw it away? Same with your gloves if you go that far. Most of this crap is politically motivated feel good gestures having nothing to do with
proper sanitation. My nurse relative says that. Greg, I don't think the CDC or local governments think people are wearing a mask all day long and certainly not grinding or painting. Yeah they aren't trying to stop particles that are 50 or 100 microns, they think
you are stopping a 0.3 micron virus with that do rag. The CDC/NIH made a 180 turn on this in a couple of weeks bowing to political pressure to be able to say we are doing something. Greg, I think the early spring heat and humidity in Florida has affected your thought process. Either that or you
live in an alternate universe. The cloth "do" masks are *not* intended to stop a .3 micron virus. They are intended to stop *your* aerosol spray from a sneeze or cough from landing on other people or surfaces. Even the HEPA filters used in airplanes that filter and exchange all the cabin air
every few minutes won't filter a virus. A virus is typically smaller than .3 microns. Those filters are for airborne bacteria which is much larger than a virus. Nobody is saying you need to wear a mask all day anyway. Only time you need to put one on is just before you enter a store and you can
remove it once you get back in your vehicle. Then you are handling a contaminated mask several times unless you have a sterile bag of them and another bag to store the dirty ones. The reality is as soon as you get away from Miami/Ft Lauderdale, the virus is not really much of an issue and even with that big
hot spot, our numbers are a fraction of the Acela corridor, per capita, in every category. If you toss that area, we look more like Texas or Utah. We got a big data dump tonight from Tallahassee and it debunked a lot of scary stuff we were hearing. It was why DeSantis decided to loosen up the choke hold on our
economy. If I wear a mask once a day or once every two days for about 5 minutes each time while I stop at a store, am not sneezing or coughing ... not even talking really ... do you really think I need to worry about it being "contaminated"? It's not like I am performing surgery or something.
:-) So why bother? This is a politically correct gesture that is described as "better than nothing" at best and with absolutely no science behind it. Fauci said they were useless until the PC police told him people want to THINK they are doing something. Greg, if I were carrying the covid-19 virus but didn't know
it becauseI was asymptomatic (at least for the moment) would you like me tosneeze or cough on you? Or even near you?I would be ****ed if you sneezed on me last year, maybe to the pointthat snot might not be the only thing coming out of your nose if Ithought it was intentional but I digress. Didn't we all learn to cover our
mouth when we cough or sneeze 65years ago? They even started teaching us not to use our hand 20 yearsago. That was just colds and Flu but the same principles still apply. Why is that so hard?Fauci initially said wearing a mask was not needed until further data indicatedthe virus could be transferred from person to person via
sneezing, coughing or even singing (in a group). No one is claiming that amask will 100% protect against this but it reduces the travel ofthe wet sneeze or cough which is carrying the virus. This virus hasproven to be far more contagious than others and anything to reducethe risk of spreading it is worthwhile, not only to
the politicallycorrect but also to the medical experts, including Fauci.He Read this:https://www.livescience.com/how-covid-19-spreads-transmission-routes.htmlSounds like a lot of "we don't know" to me. That pretty much sums upthe science on this thing. They really don't know.At a certain point we are going to be resolved
to
the fact that thisvirus is out there and it isn't going away. You can run and you canhide but if you want to have a life, you are probably going to beexposed sooner or later. Now they are hedging on whether the vaccinewill even work and whether having antibodies makes you safe.

If you believe the science and the scientists don't know, that
kind of leaves you in the dark, doesn't it? I go along with what
the scientists think might help.

Right now I see this as so much misinformation from politically
correct sources I am not sure I believe anything but the raw data.
My state is 1.9 per 100,000 in death (mostly in counties I quit my
****ing job so I didn't have to go to) and I am not getting my panties
in a wad about that.
If I start coughing, I will wear a mask. Until then, asymptomatic
people are not sneezing and hacking up a lung.
If you are

On Fri, 1 May 2020 03:02:20 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 19:32:38 -0400,
wrote:

On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 19:10:27 -0400, wrote:

That will also include all of the pathogens you vacuumed up in your
travels too.

Bull****.


So you are saying they don't stop any pathogens. The ones you
encounter pass through 100%.

===

That's not entirely accurate. Masks are very effective at stopping
droplets and dust. They act as carriers of the virus.

But the droplets and dust are still on the mask, waiting to be
projected across the room with those sneezes everyone seems so afraid
of. Since this is really talking about being in a store, the fact that
you are only spraying counters and merchandise that is a foot or two
in front of you is not that consoling. I understand John carries a bag
and he carefully puts his mask in there but that is not what I see
happening. People pull it off and shove it in their pocket, with their
keys, money or whatever else they carry around. A woman shoving it in
her purse is even more disgusting since everything she owns is in that
purse. You can wash your hands all you like but if your pocket or
purse is infected, you are not accomplishing much.


You sneeze with the mask on, those droplets ain’t goin as far as no mask.

But if they land on the counter in front of you or the apples, celery
or what ever, what difference does it make? You are not only spreading
your germs, you are spreading all the ones you vacuumed up in your
day.

On 4/30/2020 11:02 PM, Bill wrote:
wrote:
On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 19:32:38 -0400,
wrote:

On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 19:10:27 -0400, wrote:

That will also include all of the pathogens you vacuumed up in your
travels too.

Bull****.


So you are saying they don't stop any pathogens. The ones you
encounter pass through 100%.

===

That's not entirely accurate. Masks are very effective at stopping
droplets and dust. They act as carriers of the virus.

But the droplets and dust are still on the mask, waiting to be
projected across the room with those sneezes everyone seems so afraid
of. Since this is really talking about being in a store, the fact that
you are only spraying counters and merchandise that is a foot or two
in front of you is not that consoling. I understand John carries a bag
and he carefully puts his mask in there but that is not what I see
happening. People pull it off and shove it in their pocket, with their
keys, money or whatever else they carry around. A woman shoving it in
her purse is even more disgusting since everything she owns is in that
purse. You can wash your hands all you like but if your pocket or
purse is infected, you are not accomplishing much.



You sneeze with the mask on, those droplets ain’t goin as far as no mask.



Something Greg just doesn't seem to understand. It has been proven that
the "aerosol" type transmittance is an issue to be concerned about.

And without a mask those virus carrying droplets travel much further
than what was originally estimated.

It's also it is recommended that you wear disposable gloves, so when you
pick up the item that someone sneezed on, you have some protection. The
item should then be wiped off with a disinfecting wipe when you get home.

This covid-19 virus is proving to be *much* more contagious that a
normal flu virus. People are even passing it to their dogs.





--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

On 5/1/2020 2:24 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 1 May 2020 03:02:20 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 19:32:38 -0400,
wrote:

On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 19:10:27 -0400, wrote:

That will also include all of the pathogens you vacuumed up in your
travels too.

Bull****.


So you are saying they don't stop any pathogens. The ones you
encounter pass through 100%.

===

That's not entirely accurate. Masks are very effective at stopping
droplets and dust. They act as carriers of the virus.

But the droplets and dust are still on the mask, waiting to be
projected across the room with those sneezes everyone seems so afraid
of. Since this is really talking about being in a store, the fact that
you are only spraying counters and merchandise that is a foot or two
in front of you is not that consoling. I understand John carries a bag
and he carefully puts his mask in there but that is not what I see
happening. People pull it off and shove it in their pocket, with their
keys, money or whatever else they carry around. A woman shoving it in
her purse is even more disgusting since everything she owns is in that
purse. You can wash your hands all you like but if your pocket or
purse is infected, you are not accomplishing much.



You sneeze with the mask on, those droplets ain’t goin as far as no mask.

But if they land on the counter in front of you or the apples, celery
or what ever, what difference does it make? You are not only spreading
your germs, you are spreading all the ones you vacuumed up in your
day.


I give up.


--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

On 4/30/2020 10:12 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 19:42:43 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/30/2020 7:05 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 05:25:49 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/29/2020 11:46 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:50:23 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/29/2020 5:30 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 14:22:36 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/29/2020 1:41 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:31:28 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:39:44 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:47:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:46:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/28/2020 8:08 AM, Tim wrote:


And just found that out by losing a law suit against down state representative Darren bailey.

Pritzker is finding that he’s not as well loved as he thought he was.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ports/2262560/



Some of this stuff is getting a little out of hand, IMO.

Our town just issued an "order" requiring everybody over 2 years old to
wear a mask when going to an "essential" store ... grocery, convenience,
gas stations, home improvement outlets, etc. Failure to obey can result
in fines.

The town's order also says you can't use N-95 or surgical type masks.
You are required to use a cloth mask that I guess you are supposed to
make yourself. I had dug up half a box of "procedural" masks that I
bought about 3 years ago at CVS for use when mowing the lawn. Now the
town says I can't use them because a procedural mask is considered a
surgical mask.

I have no problem with cooperating with this but it's not necessary to
issue an "order" enforceable with fines.

Wearing a mask is a commonsense courtesy to others. It doesn't protect
*you* ... it protects others if you are in close proximity and you
sneeze or cough.

When this whole thing started the public was asked to voluntarily
practice social distancing and limiting contact with others. For
us old farts, we were asked to voluntarily go into hibernation.

The whole purpose of this was to "flatten the curve" to prevent
hospitals from becoming overwhelmed with covid-19 cases.
That's all.

The public voluntarily responded and hospitals were never overwhelmed
even in places like NY and NYC. In fact, many now have empty beds and
hospitals are laying off medical staff.

We need to resist having local state governments issuing "orders"
enforceable by fines, especially when the voluntary efforts
of the public are working. Slippery-slope kind of thing.

All we need to do is to continue applying commonsense.


I am waiting to see a whole class of Covid related charges tossed as
soon as they get to court.
The mask thing will probably go first because there is absolutely zero
proof the bandanna mask does anything.
Even Fauci started out saying that and then I imagine he was prodded
into saying they *might* help. How are you going to tell thousands of
"Nannas" that they are wasting their time making masks.
I bet you don't see medical professionals wearing a home made mask.

Just think about it a minute. This is a porous material that you are
breathing through so it is collecting saliva. For an employee in a
store that is for hours. It is probably soaking wet. (I know my N-95s
won't last an hour in the shop until they are soaked).
Now I have this wet rag on my face, collecting all of my germs along
with any other germs that were in the air. There is zero filtering
capability for anything much bigger than 50-60 microns, even if the
rag is dry, wet it is a conduit. (Covid is 0.3 microns) I am
breathing the contamination in and if I sneeze, the germs are going
for a ride, infecting anyone or anything within range. How is that
helping anything.
All of that assumes you handle the mask properly and it doesn't become
a worse vector when you take it off and shove it in your pocket.


Try spitting through a mask.

Put some food coloring on the mask and sneeze through it. Don't do it
near anything expensive.

Wrong. Put the food coloring in your mouth. Then sneeze through it. Now do the
same without the mask.

Common sense rules.

We are talking about what happens to the contamination ON and IN the
mask when you sneeze through it., If you are wearing a mask for any
length of time on a warm day it will be soaked with sweat, saliva and
condensation. Now blow air through that. A T shirt is not going to
stop anything. It might slow down the range a little but you are still
contaminating any surface nearby and surface contamination seems to be
the main vector for this disease.

I probably have as much experience with masks, real N-95 masks, as
anyone here, just because of the amount of grinding and spray painting
I do. They are DONE in an hour or two. That is not anywhere close to
the ineffective do rags people call a mask these days.
I say again, wear your mask for an hour or so outside (until it gets
pretty moist), spray a little food color solution on it, inside or
out, it really doesn't make much difference, then blow air through it.
See what comes out.

Next, what do you do with your mask when you take it off? Shove it in
your pocket for next time? Throw it away?
Same with your gloves if you go that far.
Most of this crap is politically motivated feel good gestures having
nothing to do with proper sanitation. My nurse relative says that.



Greg, I don't think the CDC or local governments think people are
wearing a mask all day long and certainly not grinding or painting.




Yeah they aren't trying to stop particles that are 50 or 100 microns,
they think you are stopping a 0.3 micron virus with that do rag.
The CDC/NIH made a 180 turn on this in a couple of weeks bowing to
political pressure to be able to say we are doing something.


Greg, I think the early spring heat and humidity in Florida
has affected your thought process. Either that or you live
in an alternate universe.

The cloth "do" masks are *not* intended to stop a .3 micron
virus. They are intended to stop *your* aerosol spray from
a sneeze or cough from landing on other people or surfaces.

Even the HEPA filters used in airplanes
that filter and exchange all the cabin air every few minutes
won't filter a virus. A virus is typically smaller than .3
microns. Those filters are for airborne bacteria which is
much larger than a virus.

Nobody is saying you need to wear a mask all day anyway.
Only time you need to put one on is just before you enter
a store and you can remove it once you get back in your
vehicle.

Then you are handling a contaminated mask several times unless you
have a sterile bag of them and another bag to store the dirty ones.
The reality is as soon as you get away from Miami/Ft Lauderdale, the
virus is not really much of an issue and even with that big hot spot,
our numbers are a fraction of the Acela corridor, per capita, in every
category. If you toss that area, we look more like Texas or Utah.
We got a big data dump tonight from Tallahassee and it debunked a lot
of scary stuff we were hearing. It was why DeSantis decided to loosen
up the choke hold on our economy.







If I wear a mask once a day or once every two days for about 5 minutes
each time while I stop at a store, am not sneezing or coughing ... not
even talking really ...
do you really think I need to worry about it being "contaminated"?

It's not like I am performing surgery or something. :-)



So why bother? This is a politically correct gesture that is described
as "better than nothing" at best and with absolutely no science behind
it.
Fauci said they were useless until the PC police told him people want
to THINK they are doing something.


Greg, if I were carrying the covid-19 virus but didn't know it because
I was asymptomatic (at least for the moment) would you like me to
sneeze or cough on you? Or even near you?

I would be ****ed if you sneezed on me last year, maybe to the point
that snot might not be the only thing coming out of your nose if I
thought it was intentional but I digress.
Didn't we all learn to cover our mouth when we cough or sneeze 65
years ago? They even started teaching us not to use our hand 20 years
ago. That was just colds and Flu but the same principles still apply.
Why is that so hard?


Fauci initially said wearing a mask was not needed until further data
indicated
the virus could be transferred from person to person via sneezing,
coughing or even singing (in a group). No one is claiming that a
mask will 100% protect against this but it reduces the travel of
the wet sneeze or cough which is carrying the virus. This virus has
proven to be far more contagious than others and anything to reduce
the risk of spreading it is worthwhile, not only to the politically
correct but also to the medical experts, including Fauci.

He Read this:

https://www.livescience.com/how-covid-19-spreads-transmission-routes.html

Sounds like a lot of "we don't know" to me. That pretty much sums up
the science on this thing. They really don't know.

At a certain point we are going to be resolved to the fact that this
virus is out there and it isn't going away. You can run and you can
hide but if you want to have a life, you are probably going to be
exposed sooner or later. Now they are hedging on whether the vaccine
will even work and whether having antibodies makes you safe.



I see. To quote the troll, "Do nothing".

I have a wife I am concerned about, three adult kids and seven
grandkids. I'd like to see them once in a while.



--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

On 5/1/2020 2:18 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 22:48:33 -0400 (EDT), Justan Ohlphart
wrote:

Wrote in message:
On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 19:42:43 -0400, "Mr. wrote:On 4/30/2020 7:05 PM, wrote: On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 05:25:49 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/29/2020 11:46 PM, wrote: On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:50:23 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 4/29/2020 5:30 PM, wrote: On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 14:22:36 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/29/2020 1:41 PM, wrote: On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:31:28 -0400, John
wrote: On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:39:44 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:47:21 -0400, John wrote: On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:05 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:46:05 -0400, "Mr.
Luddite"
wrote: On 4/28/2020 8:08 AM, Tim wrote: And just found that out by losing a law suit against down state representative Darren bailey. Pritzker is finding that he’s not as well loved as he thought he
was. https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/judge-grants-restraining-order-to-block-extended-stay-at-home-order-reports/2262560/ Some of this stuff is getting a little out of hand, IMO. Our town just issued an "order" requiring
everybody over 2 years old to wear a mask when going to an "essential" store ... grocery, convenience, gas stations, home improvement outlets, etc. Failure to obey can result in fines. The town's order also says you can't use N-95 or surgical type masks.
You are
required to use a cloth mask that I guess you are supposed to make yourself. I had dug up half a box of "procedural" masks that I bought about 3 years ago at CVS for use when mowing the lawn. Now the town says I can't use them because a procedural mask is considered a surgical
mask. I have no problem with cooperating with this but it's not necessary to issue an "order" enforceable with fines. Wearing a mask is a commonsense courtesy to others. It doesn't protect *you* ... it protects others if you are in close proximity and
you sneeze or cough. When this whole thing started the public was asked to voluntarily practice social distancing and limiting contact with others. For us old farts, we were asked to voluntarily go into hibernation. The whole purpose of this
was to "flatten the curve" to prevent hospitals from becoming overwhelmed with covid-19 cases. That's all. The public voluntarily responded and hospitals were never overwhelmed even in places like NY and NYC. In fact, many now have empty beds and
hospitals are laying off medical staff. We need to resist having local state governments issuing "orders" enforceable by fines, especially when the voluntary efforts of the public are working. Slippery-slope kind of thing. All we need to do is to
continue applying commonsense. I am waiting to see a whole class of Covid related charges tossed as soon as they get to court. The mask thing will probably go first because there is absolutely zero proof the bandanna mask does anything. Even Fauci
started out
saying that and then I imagine he was prodded into saying they *might* help. How are you going to tell thousands of "Nannas" that they are wasting their time making masks. I bet you don't see medical professionals wearing a home made mask. Just think about it a minute.
This is a porous material that you are breathing through so it is collecting saliva. For an employee in a store that is for hours. It is probably soaking wet. (I know my N-95s won't last an hour in the shop until they are soaked). Now I have this wet rag on my face, collecting all of
my germs along with any other germs that were in the air. There is zero filtering capability for anything much bigger than 50-60 microns, even if the rag is dry, wet it is a conduit. (Covid is 0.3 microns) I am breathing the contamination in and if I sneeze, the germs are
going for a ride, infecting anyone or anything within range. How is that helping anything. All of that assumes you handle the mask properly and it doesn't become a worse vector when you take it off and shove it in your pocket. Try spitting through a
mask. Put some food coloring on the mask and sneeze through it. Don't do it near anything expensive. Wrong. Put the food coloring in your mouth. Then sneeze through it. Now do the same without the mask. Common sense rules. We are talking
about what happens to the contamination ON and IN the mask when you sneeze through it., If you are wearing a mask for any length of time on a warm day it will be soaked with sweat, saliva and condensation. Now blow air through that. A T shirt is not going to stop anything. It might slow down the
range a
little but you are still contaminating any surface nearby and surface contamination seems to be the main vector for this disease. I probably have as much experience with masks, real N-95 masks, as anyone here, just because of the amount of grinding and spray painting I do. They are
DONE in an hour or two. That is not anywhere close to the ineffective do rags people call a mask these days. I say again, wear your mask for an hour or so outside (until it gets pretty moist), spray a little food color solution on it, inside or out, it really doesn't make much difference, then blow
air through it. See what comes out. Next, what do you do with your mask when you take it off? Shove it in your pocket for next time? Throw it away? Same with your gloves if you go that far. Most of this crap is politically motivated feel good gestures having nothing to do with
proper sanitation. My nurse relative says that. Greg, I don't think the CDC or local governments think people are wearing a mask all day long and certainly not grinding or painting. Yeah they aren't trying to stop particles that are 50 or 100 microns, they think
you are stopping a 0.3 micron virus with that do rag. The CDC/NIH made a 180 turn on this in a couple of weeks bowing to political pressure to be able to say we are doing something. Greg, I think the early spring heat and humidity in Florida has affected your thought process. Either that or you
live in an alternate universe. The cloth "do" masks are *not* intended to stop a .3 micron virus. They are intended to stop *your* aerosol spray from a sneeze or cough from landing on other people or surfaces. Even the HEPA filters used in airplanes that filter and exchange all the cabin air
every few minutes won't filter a virus. A virus is typically smaller than .3 microns. Those filters are for airborne bacteria which is much larger than a virus. Nobody is saying you need to wear a mask all day anyway. Only time you need to put one on is just before you enter a store and you can
remove it once you get back in your vehicle. Then you are handling a contaminated mask several times unless you have a sterile bag of them and another bag to store the dirty ones. The reality is as soon as you get away from Miami/Ft Lauderdale, the virus is not really much of an issue and even with that big
hot spot, our numbers are a fraction of the Acela corridor, per capita, in every category. If you toss that area, we look more like Texas or Utah. We got a big data dump tonight from Tallahassee and it debunked a lot of scary stuff we were hearing. It was why DeSantis decided to loosen up the choke hold on our
economy. If I wear a mask once a day or once every two days for about 5 minutes each time while I stop at a store, am not sneezing or coughing ... not even talking really ... do you really think I need to worry about it being "contaminated"? It's not like I am performing surgery or something.
:-) So why bother? This is a politically correct gesture that is described as "better than nothing" at best and with absolutely no science behind it. Fauci said they were useless until the PC police told him people want to THINK they are doing something. Greg, if I were carrying the covid-19 virus but didn't know
it becauseI was asymptomatic (at least for the moment) would you like me tosneeze or cough on you? Or even near you?I would be ****ed if you sneezed on me last year, maybe to the pointthat snot might not be the only thing coming out of your nose if Ithought it was intentional but I digress. Didn't we all learn to cover our
mouth when we cough or sneeze 65years ago? They even started teaching us not to use our hand 20 yearsago. That was just colds and Flu but the same principles still apply. Why is that so hard?Fauci initially said wearing a mask was not needed until further data indicatedthe virus could be transferred from person to person via
sneezing, coughing or even singing (in a group). No one is claiming that amask will 100% protect against this but it reduces the travel ofthe wet sneeze or cough which is carrying the virus. This virus hasproven to be far more contagious than others and anything to reducethe risk of spreading it is worthwhile, not only to
the politicallycorrect but also to the medical experts, including Fauci.He Read this:https://www.livescience.com/how-covid-19-spreads-transmission-routes.htmlSounds like a lot of "we don't know" to me. That pretty much sums upthe science on this thing. They really don't know.At a certain point we are going to be resolved
to
the fact that thisvirus is out there and it isn't going away. You can run and you canhide but if you want to have a life, you are probably going to beexposed sooner or later. Now they are hedging on whether the vaccinewill even work and whether having antibodies makes you safe.

If you believe the science and the scientists don't know, that
kind of leaves you in the dark, doesn't it? I go along with what
the scientists think might help.

Right now I see this as so much misinformation from politically
correct sources I am not sure I believe anything but the raw data.
My state is 1.9 per 100,000 in death (mostly in counties I quit my
****ing job so I didn't have to go to) and I am not getting my panties
in a wad about that.
If I start coughing, I will wear a mask. Until then, asymptomatic
people are not sneezing and hacking up a lung.
If you are



It has been proven it can be spread simply by being too close to an
infected but asymptomatic person who is just talking.

That's science.



--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

On 4/30/2020 10:15 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 20:07:59 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/30/2020 7:32 PM, wrote:


On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 19:10:27 -0400, wrote:

That will also include all of the pathogens you vacuumed up in your
travels too.

Bull****.


So you are saying they don't stop any pathogens. The ones you
encounter pass through 100%.

===

That's not entirely accurate. Masks are very effective at stopping
droplets and dust. They act as carriers of the virus.



For some reason Greg is having a difficult time grasping this.
The virus is being carried in the droplets of a sneeze, cough
or even talking. How far those droplets can travel is the
issue. A mask helps reduce how far they go.

I've seen computer models of a person sneezing in a simulated
supermarket. The idea that the virus in the droplets only
going a few feet was disproved. Some of the droplets were
going over to the next isle of the market. Another model
showed how far droplets could travel just in normal speech.
In many cases it was more than the recommended six feet.

If all it takes is wearing an inexpensive mask when in contact
with the public to help reduce the spread of this thing, what's
the big deal? Every little bit helps as I see it.


You are assuming I am coughing and sneezing and I am not.
It is like wearing a rubber if you are not having sex and in the case
of these masks. reusing the same rubber over and over if you are ....
even if it has holes in it.


Good grief. Well, fortunately it doesn't appear that the virus
can be spread on the Internet or posting on rec.boats. Yet. :-)

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

On Fri, 1 May 2020 05:30:23 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 4/30/2020 10:12 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 19:42:43 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/30/2020 7:05 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 05:25:49 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/29/2020 11:46 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:50:23 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/29/2020 5:30 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 14:22:36 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/29/2020 1:41 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:31:28 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:39:44 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:47:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:46:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/28/2020 8:08 AM, Tim wrote:


And just found that out by losing a law suit against down state representative Darren bailey.

Pritzker is finding that he’s not as well loved as he thought he was.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ports/2262560/



Some of this stuff is getting a little out of hand, IMO.

Our town just issued an "order" requiring everybody over 2 years old to
wear a mask when going to an "essential" store ... grocery, convenience,
gas stations, home improvement outlets, etc. Failure to obey can result
in fines.

The town's order also says you can't use N-95 or surgical type masks.
You are required to use a cloth mask that I guess you are supposed to
make yourself. I had dug up half a box of "procedural" masks that I
bought about 3 years ago at CVS for use when mowing the lawn. Now the
town says I can't use them because a procedural mask is considered a
surgical mask.

I have no problem with cooperating with this but it's not necessary to
issue an "order" enforceable with fines.

Wearing a mask is a commonsense courtesy to others. It doesn't protect
*you* ... it protects others if you are in close proximity and you
sneeze or cough.

When this whole thing started the public was asked to voluntarily
practice social distancing and limiting contact with others. For
us old farts, we were asked to voluntarily go into hibernation.

The whole purpose of this was to "flatten the curve" to prevent
hospitals from becoming overwhelmed with covid-19 cases.
That's all.

The public voluntarily responded and hospitals were never overwhelmed
even in places like NY and NYC. In fact, many now have empty beds and
hospitals are laying off medical staff.

We need to resist having local state governments issuing "orders"
enforceable by fines, especially when the voluntary efforts
of the public are working. Slippery-slope kind of thing.

All we need to do is to continue applying commonsense.


I am waiting to see a whole class of Covid related charges tossed as
soon as they get to court.
The mask thing will probably go first because there is absolutely zero
proof the bandanna mask does anything.
Even Fauci started out saying that and then I imagine he was prodded
into saying they *might* help. How are you going to tell thousands of
"Nannas" that they are wasting their time making masks.
I bet you don't see medical professionals wearing a home made mask.

Just think about it a minute. This is a porous material that you are
breathing through so it is collecting saliva. For an employee in a
store that is for hours. It is probably soaking wet. (I know my N-95s
won't last an hour in the shop until they are soaked).
Now I have this wet rag on my face, collecting all of my germs along
with any other germs that were in the air. There is zero filtering
capability for anything much bigger than 50-60 microns, even if the
rag is dry, wet it is a conduit. (Covid is 0.3 microns) I am
breathing the contamination in and if I sneeze, the germs are going
for a ride, infecting anyone or anything within range. How is that
helping anything.
All of that assumes you handle the mask properly and it doesn't become
a worse vector when you take it off and shove it in your pocket.


Try spitting through a mask.

Put some food coloring on the mask and sneeze through it. Don't do it
near anything expensive.

Wrong. Put the food coloring in your mouth. Then sneeze through it. Now do the
same without the mask.

Common sense rules.

We are talking about what happens to the contamination ON and IN the
mask when you sneeze through it., If you are wearing a mask for any
length of time on a warm day it will be soaked with sweat, saliva and
condensation. Now blow air through that. A T shirt is not going to
stop anything. It might slow down the range a little but you are still
contaminating any surface nearby and surface contamination seems to be
the main vector for this disease.

I probably have as much experience with masks, real N-95 masks, as
anyone here, just because of the amount of grinding and spray painting
I do. They are DONE in an hour or two. That is not anywhere close to
the ineffective do rags people call a mask these days.
I say again, wear your mask for an hour or so outside (until it gets
pretty moist), spray a little food color solution on it, inside or
out, it really doesn't make much difference, then blow air through it.
See what comes out.

Next, what do you do with your mask when you take it off? Shove it in
your pocket for next time? Throw it away?
Same with your gloves if you go that far.
Most of this crap is politically motivated feel good gestures having
nothing to do with proper sanitation. My nurse relative says that.



Greg, I don't think the CDC or local governments think people are
wearing a mask all day long and certainly not grinding or painting.




Yeah they aren't trying to stop particles that are 50 or 100 microns,
they think you are stopping a 0.3 micron virus with that do rag.
The CDC/NIH made a 180 turn on this in a couple of weeks bowing to
political pressure to be able to say we are doing something.


Greg, I think the early spring heat and humidity in Florida
has affected your thought process. Either that or you live
in an alternate universe.

The cloth "do" masks are *not* intended to stop a .3 micron
virus. They are intended to stop *your* aerosol spray from
a sneeze or cough from landing on other people or surfaces.

Even the HEPA filters used in airplanes
that filter and exchange all the cabin air every few minutes
won't filter a virus. A virus is typically smaller than .3
microns. Those filters are for airborne bacteria which is
much larger than a virus.

Nobody is saying you need to wear a mask all day anyway.
Only time you need to put one on is just before you enter
a store and you can remove it once you get back in your
vehicle.

Then you are handling a contaminated mask several times unless you
have a sterile bag of them and another bag to store the dirty ones.
The reality is as soon as you get away from Miami/Ft Lauderdale, the
virus is not really much of an issue and even with that big hot spot,
our numbers are a fraction of the Acela corridor, per capita, in every
category. If you toss that area, we look more like Texas or Utah.
We got a big data dump tonight from Tallahassee and it debunked a lot
of scary stuff we were hearing. It was why DeSantis decided to loosen
up the choke hold on our economy.







If I wear a mask once a day or once every two days for about 5 minutes
each time while I stop at a store, am not sneezing or coughing ... not
even talking really ...
do you really think I need to worry about it being "contaminated"?

It's not like I am performing surgery or something. :-)



So why bother? This is a politically correct gesture that is described
as "better than nothing" at best and with absolutely no science behind
it.
Fauci said they were useless until the PC police told him people want
to THINK they are doing something.


Greg, if I were carrying the covid-19 virus but didn't know it because
I was asymptomatic (at least for the moment) would you like me to
sneeze or cough on you? Or even near you?

I would be ****ed if you sneezed on me last year, maybe to the point
that snot might not be the only thing coming out of your nose if I
thought it was intentional but I digress.
Didn't we all learn to cover our mouth when we cough or sneeze 65
years ago? They even started teaching us not to use our hand 20 years
ago. That was just colds and Flu but the same principles still apply.
Why is that so hard?


Fauci initially said wearing a mask was not needed until further data
indicated
the virus could be transferred from person to person via sneezing,
coughing or even singing (in a group). No one is claiming that a
mask will 100% protect against this but it reduces the travel of
the wet sneeze or cough which is carrying the virus. This virus has
proven to be far more contagious than others and anything to reduce
the risk of spreading it is worthwhile, not only to the politically
correct but also to the medical experts, including Fauci.

He Read this:

https://www.livescience.com/how-covid-19-spreads-transmission-routes.html

Sounds like a lot of "we don't know" to me. That pretty much sums up
the science on this thing. They really don't know.

At a certain point we are going to be resolved to the fact that this
virus is out there and it isn't going away. You can run and you can
hide but if you want to have a life, you are probably going to be
exposed sooner or later. Now they are hedging on whether the vaccine
will even work and whether having antibodies makes you safe.



I see. To quote the troll, "Do nothing".

I have a wife I am concerned about, three adult kids and seven
grandkids. I'd like to see them once in a while.

I feel we are dealing with a bobble-head on this subject.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!

wrote:
On Fri, 1 May 2020 03:02:20 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 19:32:38 -0400,
wrote:

On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 19:10:27 -0400, wrote:

That will also include all of the pathogens you vacuumed up in your
travels too.

Bull****.


So you are saying they don't stop any pathogens. The ones you
encounter pass through 100%.

===

That's not entirely accurate. Masks are very effective at stopping
droplets and dust. They act as carriers of the virus.

But the droplets and dust are still on the mask, waiting to be
projected across the room with those sneezes everyone seems so afraid
of. Since this is really talking about being in a store, the fact that
you are only spraying counters and merchandise that is a foot or two
in front of you is not that consoling. I understand John carries a bag
and he carefully puts his mask in there but that is not what I see
happening. People pull it off and shove it in their pocket, with their
keys, money or whatever else they carry around. A woman shoving it in
her purse is even more disgusting since everything she owns is in that
purse. You can wash your hands all you like but if your pocket or
purse is infected, you are not accomplishing much.


You sneeze with the mask on, those droplets ain’t goin as far as no mask.

But if they land on the counter in front of you or the apples, celery
or what ever, what difference does it make? You are not only spreading
your germs, you are spreading all the ones you vacuumed up in your
day.


The sneeze only covered the first row of apples, not the whole counter with
a mask.